Who is John Galt???

[Dunraven]

This the fucking book pit now? Yall should be reading survival guides or the Bible. Faggy ass bunch of motherfuckers around here. First soccer and now this. What's next, fucking tupperware and how to tie a man bun? At least go read some Clancy to wash the gay outta your eyes before you're too far gone.

In all seriousness, Rand's books are not my favorites. I simply don't like her writing style at all. Reminds me of Camus— prolix, waggish, and frequently pleonastic. She can spin a yarn for sure, but not into anything I enjoy reading through. The mark of a good writer is elegance, the ability to fill a single page with books instead of just filling a single book with pages. I think Hemingway is the only author whose writings I actually enjoy the circumlocutory fashion of. It's like every one of them is a very long road around telling the world to go fuck itself, where in contrast Rand just cries.

with respect, i believe you misunderstand her. you are in a decided minority at any rate. I find parallels in her predictions of the the ways big government 'thinks' and approaches problems, essentially taking from those who work and happily giving it to those who don't, while demonizing them for not liking it.

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

with respect, i believe you misunderstand her. you are in a decided minority at any rate. I find parallels in her predictions of the the ways big government 'thinks' and approaches problems, essentially taking from those who work and happily giving it to those who don't, while demonizing them for not liking it.

Respect? The fuck is dat?

I do get it, it's just really hard for me to pay attention to. People crucify me when I say I don't like reading 1984, too. I do get it, just don't like the cadence or prose at all. It just seems like they are caught in a terrible romance with their own words, terrible because their words don't seem to reciprocate the relationship. Is it worth reading? Sure. I was made to read a bunch of shit so maybe I'm just scorned, maybe it's just an aspect of my instant gratification generation. If I have to read fiction it has to be fulfilling page to page or else I just don't like it.

Go read Huxley or Hawthorne and come back to tell me Rand is a worthy wordsmith, or go read Cioran and tell me Rand is poignant in her constantly circling traipse to find a point. Even better yet, don't and instead go learn how to do something new or create something with your hands instead of sticking your nose in books all the fucking time. Everything I've ever found in those books was already inside of me, except that, and without the need to blind myself one yellow page at a time.

 

[BytorJr]

Have you tried reading her non-fiction books? They're very hard to get behind. I'd agree that for pure reading enjoyment good old Ernest > Ayn for me. One summer I'd hit the pool or beach with a Hemingway book every weekend. Fantastic stuff. One or two didn't hit me - like The Garden of Eden.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Respect? The fuck is dat?

I do get it, it's just really hard for me to pay attention to. People crucify me when I say I don't like reading 1984, too. I do get it, just don't like the cadence or prose at all. It just seems like they are caught in a terrible romance with their own words, terrible because their words don't seem to reciprocate the relationship. Is it worth reading? Sure. I was made to read a bunch of shit so maybe I'm just scorned, maybe it's just an aspect of my instant gratification generation. If I have to read fiction it has to be fulfilling page to page or else I just don't like it.

Go read Huxley or Hawthorne and come back to tell me Rand is a worthy wordsmith, or go read Cioran and tell me Rand is poignant in her constantly circling traipse to find a point. Even better yet, don't and instead go learn how to do something new or create something with your hands instead of sticking your nose in books all the fucking time. Everything I've ever found in those books was already inside of me, except that, and without the need to blind myself one yellow page at a time.

Respectfully,
(Which colloquially means, the speaker is wanting to be polite and have a discussion not an argument)

You are correct in that many of the books we often talk about reading, do not make for smooth enjoyable entertainment reading and are not technical masterpieces of literature.

Many of us read those books because we care about the warnings, philosophy, ideas or reasoning in those books. Things like 1984 which was written a long time ago, give you a historical perspective on what is happening today.

If civilization hits a reset in my lifetime, I plan to try to be one of the ones that helps shape the new society, to hopefully be better and hopefully stay uncorrupted longer than the last one. I think a lot of other people on here that like reading books made to make you think, also may have similar ideas.
Even if that doesn't happen in my lifetime, I hope to be able pass on the ideas and knowledge to the next generations.

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

Respectfully,
(Which colloquially means, the speaker is wanting to be polite and have a discussion not an argument)

You are correct in that many of the books we often talk about reading, do not make for smooth enjoyable entertainment reading and are not technical masterpieces of literature.

Many of us read those books because we care about the warnings, philosophy, ideas or reasoning in those books. Things like 1984 which was written a long time ago, give you a historical perspective on what is happening today.

If civilization hits a reset in my lifetime, I plan to try to be one of the ones that helps shape the new society, to hopefully be better and hopefully stay uncorrupted longer than the last one. I think a lot of other people on here that like reading books made to make you think, also may have similar ideas.
Even if that doesn't happen in my lifetime, I hope to be able pass on the ideas and knowledge to the next generations.

If respect is me speaking to someone with care regarding what they may think above the care which I would speak to anyone else, then I give it very rarely. It's not that I don't respect you, it's that I don't have a remarkable reason where I intend to indebt myself to you with it. However, the fact that we are having this conversation at all implies I respect you at least basically. In fact, I respect you as a person too much to respect your ridiculous belief that Rand is a competent author.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I've had tons of fun in books. Sadly fiction doesn't grab me at all anymore, if it ever really did. If you want to know the future simply read history, you know this. Philosophy is at best a breathing exercise to quell the gasping for certainty which comes about from the human condition. I would lump it in with psychology as the vestigial tail of molecular neurobiology. Even well evolved there is nothing in a philosophy book you couldn't come to on your own with simple honesty with yourself. Philosophical fiction is a maze of recycled creeds anymore, at best. If patriotism is the last vestige of the scoundrel, then philosophical fiction is the last vestige of the moron.

Any run of the mill dipshit can read a book these days, look at modern education as an example, or old women book clubs— but to invent something, produce something improved, or discover something takes actual work and intelligence you can't simply pass on through poetic whims. Are "the classics" useful all the same, sure. Are 90% of the words in them put to as much use as a good belch in the end? Definitely. Words should be used to work individually and collectively, like a mathematical equation or the notes in a song. Rand is inelegant and inefficient, perhaps a pleasant way to waste some time if anything. I've never had a true love for the written word and I fully admit that, or maybe I just look back and realize now that all my time spent twaddling through pages could have been better spent. I don't mean any of this to be sharp or hurt anyone's feelings, very much to the opposite I think you deserve my honesty. I leave anyone free to disagree.

 

[texastonk]

Nerve read the books. I'm a non-fiction guy mainly, but watched most of the first movie. Its meh.

"Enslaving the producers (often Men) using domestic "guilt" is portrayed as an insidious propaganda deeply ingrained into our culture. "

I'm stealing this term to start using on my wife when she starts in on me with her propaganda. " Domestic Guilt".

 

[Greg Langelius *]

When first I read Atlas Shrugged, it was the hot book being passed around the break room at the Computer Mainframe Facility is was getting my computer skills grounding at.

The relationship of John and Dagne was literally the subject of heated round robin arguments during the night shift breaks. We were already lifelong friends from High School and Grade School, and most of us remain in touch to this day.

But politically, we run the entire gamut. This was during central conflict of Vietnam, and I was already back by then. We were all manner of political flavors by then, and although we disagreed, we maintained our respect for each other.

So I have doubts about just how much of a textbook that book and Rand's other works truly were. To me, they were educational, but not formative; too late for that.

Also, the damning antipathy that has developed between the political sides appalls me these days. We are headed to the ultimate depths of human discourse, sparked by the Vietnam disparities, nurtured by people with hidden agendas, and now full blown out in the open. Everyone has a thumb on this scale.

It's like the iceberg, it looks smaller than it is; but the impact is going to be astoundingly devastating.

No matter where this all ends up, our Nation will be forever changed. I think that once things stabilize, it will be unrecognizable. Maybe some good will come of it, but don't ask me to describe what good that might be.

Greg

 

[BytorJr]

If respect is me speaking to someone with care regarding what they may think above the care which I would speak to anyone else, then I give it very rarely. It's not that I don't respect you, it's that I don't have a remarkable reason where I to intend indebt myself to you with it. However, the fact that we are having this conversation at all implies I respect you at least basically. In fact, I respect you as a person too much to respect your ridiculous belief that Rand is a competent author.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I've had tons of fun in books. Sadly fiction doesn't grab me at all anymore, if it ever really did. If you want to know the future simply read history, you know this. Philosophy is at best a breathing exercise to quell the gasping for certainty which comes about from the human condition. I would lump it in with psychology as the vestigial tail of molecular neurobiology. Even well evolved there is nothing in a philosophy book you couldn't come to on your own with simple honesty with yourself. Philosophical fiction is a maze of recycled creeds anymore, at best. If patriotism is the last vestige of the scoundrel, then philosophical fiction is the last vestige of the moron.

Any run of the mill dipshit can read a book these days, look at modern education as an example, or old women book clubs— but to invent something, produce something improved, or discover something takes actual work and intelligence you can't simply pass on through poetic whims. Are "the classics" useful all the same, sure. Are 90% of the words in them put to as much use as a good belch in the end? Definitely. Words should be used to work individually and collectively, like a mathematical equation or the notes in a song. Rand is inelegant and inefficient, perhaps a pleasant way to waste some time if anything. I've never had a true love for the written word and I fully admit that, or maybe I just look back and realize now that all my time spent twaddling through pages could have been better spent. I don't mean any of this to be sharp or hurt anyone's feelings, very much to the opposite I think you deserve my honesty. I leave anyone free to disagree.

That makes me feel better. . I lost most of my desire to read in school when emphasis was put on specifics (even for novels/fiction) than on concept. Also, since I'm in the STEM field, reading for detail means I'm always a slow reader of even novels. Thus, I tend to gravitate towards more technical stuff, history, and a ton of magazines (though when I had my dog he took away magazine time...and glad that he did!!!). I do tend to agree Rand was inefficient in getting her idea across (75 page+ Galt speech). But the whole point of Rand is more for concept & philosophical discussion than is something like Hemingway. Though, don't get me wrong, Hemingway had a lot of life in those books as well - just less preachy and no-doubt wordsmithed much more cleverly. Again, just my opinion.

 

[ManUtdManiac]

This the fucking book pit now? Yall should be reading survival guides or the Bible. Faggy ass bunch of motherfuckers around here. First soccer and now this. What's next, fucking tupperware and how to tie a man bun? At least go read some Clancy to wash the gay outta your eyes before you're too far gone.

In all seriousness, Rand's books are not my favorites. I simply don't like her writing style at all. Reminds me of Camus— prolix, waggish, and frequently pleonastic. She can spin a yarn for sure, but not into anything I enjoy reading through. The mark of a good writer is elegance, the ability to fill a single page with books instead of just filling a single book with pages. I think Hemingway is the only author whose writings I actually enjoy the circumlocutory fashion of. It's like every one of them is a very long road around telling the world to go fuck itself, where in contrast Rand just cries.

well aren't you surprising.

Agree on Hemingway, but his style of writing was also his way of getting you into the heads of the characters and their moods as well as actions. Old Man of the Sea being a good example.

Rand constructured a story to prove, as she felt it, a point that collectivity and ideas of 'greater good' are hogwash. This view is anathema to morality or religious thought unless you dilute Rand's acidity to Sharespeare's "to thine own self be true". Rand's 'self interest' being his 'self-honesty and self-esteem'.

I found all her books hard to read not so much her style, but her message seems immature. Working in self-interest only with no consideration to the greater good is how we got parabens in the waterways and generations of American families died of cancer - thanks Monsanto. Self-interest is how we get traitors selling out to vile enemies etc. I'm all about the individual, but an individual absent a sense of society is little more than a sociopath.

 

[Baron23]

Respect? The fuck is dat?

I do get it, it's just really hard for me to pay attention to. People crucify me when I say I don't like reading 1984, too. I do get it, just don't like the cadence or prose at all. It just seems like they are caught in a terrible romance with their own words, terrible because their words don't seem to reciprocate the relationship. Is it worth reading? Sure. I was made to read a bunch of shit so maybe I'm just scorned, maybe it's just an aspect of my instant gratification generation. If I have to read fiction it has to be fulfilling page to page or else I just don't like it.

Go read Huxley or Hawthorne and come back to tell me Rand is a worthy wordsmith, or go read Cioran and tell me Rand is poignant in her constantly circling traipse to find a point. Even better yet, don't and instead go learn how to do something new or create something with your hands instead of sticking your nose in books all the fucking time. Everything I've ever found in those books was already inside of me, except that, and without the need to blind myself one yellow page at a time.

Rand needed a good editor to cut Atlas Shrugged into 1/3 its published length.

IMO, it’s political and philosophical dissertation more than a novel, she seems to have some frankly juvenile romantic notions, and again IMO you are correct.... she did not write great prose.

But, if you can wade thru all the rest, there are some golden nuggets in there @Dunraven is correct in thatwe are seeing her warnings sadly coming to fruition in our society today.

Same w Vonnegut and Slaughter House Five and the handicaps that capable people had to wear in order to reduce them to the lowest denominator. I see this in our hyper-parochial egalitarianism incl “white guilt” which is used by some to justify why they are failures while others succeed. Must be race and racism, FFS, and not because they are uneducated, untalented morons w no ambition but to live on the dole.

Or, at least that’s my view.

 

[Dunraven]

well aren't you surprising.

Agree on Hemingway, but his style of writing was also his way of getting you into the heads of the characters and their moods as well as actions. Old Man of the Sea being a good example.

Rand constructured a story to prove, as she felt it, a point that collectivity and ideas of 'greater good' are hogwash. This view is anathema to morality or religious thought unless you dilute Rand's acidity to Sharespeare's "to thine own self be true". Rand's 'self interest' being his 'self-honesty and self-esteem'.

I found all her books hard to read not so much her style, but her message seems immature. Working in self-interest only with no consideration to the greater good is how we got parabens in the waterways and generations of American families died of cancer - thanks Monsanto. Self-interest is how we get traitors selling out to vile enemies etc. I'm all about the individual, but an individual absent a sense of society is little more than a sociopath.
[/QU

Have you tried reading her non-fiction books? They're very hard to get behind. I'd agree that for pure reading enjoyment good old Ernest > Ayn for me. One summer I'd hit the pool or beach with a Hemingway book every weekend. Fantastic stuff. One or two didn't hit me - like The Garden of Eden.

her books are merely a vehicle to present/explain her philosophy: Collectivism; loosely presented as novels. You want a novel , try AJ Rowling. The world problems you mention are due to human greed, not the self-interest Rand is talking about. Go back and read it again, or the first time.

 

[BytorJr]

her books are merely a vehicle to present/explain her philosophy: Collectivism; loosely presented as novels. You want a novel , try AJ Rowling. The world problems you mention are due to human greed, not the self-interest Rand is talking about. Go back and read it again, or the first time.

I understand full well what her books are all about - better than apparently I was just given credit for. I read her stuff 20+ years ago and have read all but "Atlas Shrugged" and "We the Living" more than once. I agree that her books are not novels in the traditional sense of entertainment - they are a novel written to suggest a particular mindset of thinking. Regardless, they can be a "hard" read even more so her essays like in "Return of the Primitive." In that you cannot sail through them for entertainment. They are supposed to be more thought provoking than "entertainment" books like Rowling (not my thing). I do think she could have condensed her point a bit in "Atlas Shrugged", but for me it was an enjoyable, yet long read.

I'm also not sure exactly where I mentioned with respect to her books current problems, at least in this thread. Please, point out to me where I mentioned "human greed" in this thread. I believe that I mentioned her books are a difficult read at times and alluded to Galt speech didn't really need to be 75+ pages - which is my OPINION and frankly is shared by a vast majority of people. For F's sake - how does anything I've mentioned in THIS THREAD get turned into human greed vs self-interest - seriously?

So wise sage, how many times have you read her non-fiction books? Which ones...come on....let all all know what the wise one thinks and believes since you obviously are so smart you can tell what I did and what I didn't achieve from reading her books and suggesting I reread them like you're some kind of teacher of mine. Better give a small abstract to each non-fiction book of Ayn Rand's as well so that we know for sure which ones you read and can fact check your understanding.

 

[ManUtdManiac]

@Dunraven explain the difference between greed and self-interest if one identifies accumulation of wealth to their maximum potential by any means as their self-interest. Also, what, if not the individual, is the correcting mechanism for greed then?

Good luck with that one without reference an external force.

 

[BytorJr]

@Dunraven, I cannot find one of my books (We the Living), but here is my simple collection of Rand books of which at one point in time I've read - don't remember everything like you do, but so be it.

 

[Dunraven]

I understand full well what her books are all about - better than apparently I was just given credit for. I read her stuff 20+ years ago and have read all but "Atlas Shrugged" and "We the Living" more than once. I agree that her books are not novels in the traditional sense of entertainment - they are a novel written to suggest a particular mindset of thinking. Regardless, they can be a "hard" read even more so her essays like in "Return of the Primitive." In that you cannot sail through them for entertainment. They are supposed to be more thought provoking than "entertainment" books like Rowling (not my thing). I do think she could have condensed her point a bit in "Atlas Shrugged", but for me it was an enjoyable, yet long read.

also not sure exactly where I mentioned with respect to her books current problems, at least in this thread. Please, point out to me where I mentioned "human greed" in this thread. I believe that I mentioned her books are a difficult read at times and alluded to Galt speech didn't really need to be 75+ pages - which is my OPINION and frankly is shared by a vast majority of people. For F's sake - how does anything I've mentioned in THIS THREAD get turned into human greed vs self-interest - seriously?

So wise sage, how many times have you read her non-fiction books? Which ones...come on....let all all know what the wise one thinks and believes since you obviously are so smart you can tell what I did and what I didn't achieve from reading her books and suggesting I reread them like you're some kind of teacher of mine. Better give a small abstract to each non-fiction book of Ayn Rand's as well so that we know for sure which ones you read and can fact check your understanding.

really? snark and sarcasm? i bow out before the name calling starts. have a nice day.

 

[fdkay]

Who is Kaiser Sose?

 

[Baron23]

Who is Kaiser Sose?

The Usual Suspects.

 

[silentwoods]

I am John Galt in spirit.

Been working on living John Galt for years, getting closer.

 

[silentwoods]

I would think on this forum that it would be something like:

Unintended Consequences: John Ross, T. J. Mullin: 9781888118049: Amazon.com: Books

Unintended Consequences [John Ross, T. J. Mullin] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Unintended Consequences

www.amazon.com

I have a second printing, the one with the messed up typesetting in a couple of places, read it when it came out.

That book turned me around on things at a critical time in my life.

I've loaned it out probably a dozen times, always have THAT conversation when it comes back.

I think you either get it, or you don't. Anyone who doesn't... isn't on my side imho.

 

[silentwoods]

This the fucking book pit now? Yall should be reading survival guides or the Bible. Faggy ass bunch of motherfuckers around here. First soccer and now this. What's next, fucking tupperware and how to tie a man bun? At least go read some Clancy to wash the gay outta your eyes before you're too far gone.

In all seriousness, Rand's books are not my favorites. I simply don't like her writing style at all. Reminds me of Camus— prolix, waggish, and frequently pleonastic. She can spin a yarn for sure, but not into anything I enjoy reading through. The mark of a good writer is elegance, the ability to fill a single page with books instead of just filling a single book with pages. I think Hemingway is the only author whose writings I actually enjoy the circumlocutory fashion of. It's like every one of them is a very long road around telling the world to go fuck itself, where in contrast Rand just cries.

The call of the wild.

Simply a fantastic story on several levels.