Who is the GOAT?
- Thread starter Quickdraw Outlaw
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Rifleman is a very broad group of people.... If you're talking about military personal in combat situations my vote goes to Carlos Hathcock.
Carlos Hathcock was not only one of the greatest snipers in field craft and marksmanship, he also had the 1965 Wimbleton Cup title and several shooting records at the time....
Guess I'm bias though.
Carlos Hathcock was not only one of the greatest snipers in field craft and marksmanship, he also had the 1965 Wimbleton Cup title and several shooting records at the time....
Guess I'm bias though.
I agree, I was able to meet him and his son at camp perry @ 1997 or 1998 I think , it's been a long time , but great man in my book, Carlos Hathcock served this country to the extreme and I am very thankful for what all of you do for this country and your family's do
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I find his story to be a tad unbelieveable.... 700+ kills, 200 with a K31 subgun which i don't think most of these were confirmed in any way. Sounds like a WW2 propagada story, but only he would know the truth.
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I would argue that there is no greatest of all time; however, there are group of riflemen that mastered their craft for their particular shooting discipline. For example, anyone who is a distinguished marksman is on the list.
Most the "confirmed" numbers are much closer to 500. Even if it was only 300 confirmed, that is on another plane.
Who knows.... I've never heard of an actual definition of a confirmed kill other than the actual shooter makes the determination....
Simo Häyhä was also using iron sights and was hanging out in frigid weather and accomplished his kills in roughly 100 days. That's five kills per day without being found. His story is pretty dam impressive. Anyway here is one mans take on it. Top 10 Snipers in History - Listverse
I had the honor to get to know "gunny" Carlos Hathcock my vote is for him again i may be biased in that i got to know him and none of the others but my second is close between York and Kyle. All showed the whole package to show all that a world class snipers needs to be on and off of the battlefield. In the field they showed they could master not just some of the skills to be sniper but all of them. At home they did all they could to help others to be the best they could be. A big "Hoo! Yah" to both.
I know this ISNT the answer you are looking for but I believe that any Man (or Woman) whom picks up a weapon and willingly serves their country is to be supported as the "Greatest"... Different times in History/Wars etc offered different "levels" of contact/fighting/numbers/conf/unconf etc But right, wrong or indifferent they fought for something they believed in which is more then most. No one behind a trigger should consider it a "numbers game" as their motivitaion.
Yeah, amazing that he did what he did all in the freezing cold and snow. Fuck the cold and fuck snow.
Well, he was fighting against the Soviet army. Let me quote a German general..
"The most common Russian form of combat was the use of mass. Human mass and mass of materiel were generally used unintelligently arid without variation, but they were always effective. Both had to be available before they could be used lavishly; they were therefore dependent upon limitless Russian supplies. The Russian disdain for life—always present, but now infinitely heightened by Communism—favored this practice. One must never believe that a Russian attack which has been twice repulsed with unheard-of losses will not be repeated a third and a fourth time at the same place and in the same fashion. Unimpressed by previous failures and losses, new waves always came on. An unusual inflexibility of mind and unimaginative obstinacy lay in this use of masses, and was dearly paid for. It will never be possible to estimate Russian war casualties with any degree of accuracy; there will always be a potential error of many hundred thousands. This inflexible method of warfare, with the objective of accomplishing everything through the use of human masses, is the most inhuman and costly possible."
- Generaloberst Erhard Raus
Peculiarities of Russian Warfare by Erhard Raus
Erhard Raus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Everyone mentioned above is great, no doubt. But the greatest? That's a tall order. I only know who my favorite is and that is Sgt York. Aside from incredible rifle work I find his whole story compelling. That is not to take anything away from any of the others. I think it would be great if we had a clear record of who did what, but I think much of that has been lost in the ashes of war, and some is likely classified such that our great grandchildren may learn about it. But I seriously doubt we know of all of the great riflemen.
I think you misunderstood.... Idk of any system that was the only thing i've been told and idk if it's current or accurate... I was told by a friend that was a sniper with 82nd that they(dod) do not track individual sniper kills unless they were a specific target but like i said idk if its current or accurate.
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Simo Hayha. Mindset with skill met opportunity to make who I believe to be the best combat gunman of all time.
Maybe , maybe not but he was in a target rich environment with ROE that he called .
That is the change I was talking about. Long ago to get booked it had to be confirmed by someone other than the shooter himself. If no one confirmed it was logged as a probable only,... depending his AAR, overlaid with others, same A/O an time frame. Target specific sometimes required much more. Guys doing drop-off only (circa 60s-70)had the most, but could not get booked do to lack of confirmation. The folks who worried about the numbers the most were what was called, 4 level safe REMF's
Little known do to interpretation of ROE, order was see the enemy kill the enemy. Most came in a 6 month time span, as when they found out his enemy's came in all sizes he was transferred. Many agreed with him but the ones in power did not.
Adelbert Waldron | History Wars Weapons
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