Sidearms & Scatterguns who makes a good 12 Gauge SxS?

[sirhrmechanic]

Good looking gun there Cameron... but I daresay that you've merely whetted your appetite...

Because once you start with a double, you will want to have the next one... and the next one... and the next one... until....

Below is my Purdey c. 1925 self-opener 12-ga. The carving is by a guy who I worked with on the PD. He is an absolute master. We've hunted together for more than 20 years.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Oh and Cameron... since you have your shotgun now... as opposed to early next year. How about you, me and PM get together for pheasants this fall? Saturday later this month? Looks like the weekends are tight.. but if you can do a weekday, there are still some dates open in Oct and Nov.

It would be a... pardon the pun... blast!

Cheers,

Sirhr

P.S. One of my friends from Brookfield can bring a first-rate dog... Let's do this!

 

[chorizo]

That's a beautiful little gun... and from a really top maker.

And if that 'youngun can drop quail with a 28 ga. at his age... that's some shooting right there. Damn. I don't think I could hit a quail with the tiny charge in a 28.

Can you post some pictures of that gun, Chorizo? Because it looks like a gorgeous example of the Basque art.

I am not sure if I mentioned above... the book "Spanish Best" is well worth owning. It is now out in paperback for cheap(ish) but used copies of the hardcover are well-worth owning. The photos alone are great.

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Boo...%26sortby%3D17


I am hoping to get to Eibar next spring on my motorcycle trip to Iceland. Yes, I know.. that makes about as much sense as looking for a waffle iron while changing a tire. But it does work out in a strange sort of way. Basque gunmakers are truly masters!

Cheers,

Sirhr

Don't bother going to Eibar. The makers have all shut down...bankrupt and closed except for AyA and they don't take visitors anymore. I do urge you to go up the spanish forum I posted earlier. I have all my guns posted there addititonally, I made a visit to one of my good friends who lives in Eibar (he was a master gunsmith and has since died of lung cancer) and he arranged me visits to all of the makers (and they were all still operational) and I posted the pictures of the visit in my photo album under Chorizo. I have 18 Spanish SxS sidelocks and the Ugartechea is the only boxlock left. I have given the rest of my boxlocks away. As for Spanish Best....it is very dated and while a good primer, is no long representative of the Eibar/Elogibar gunmaking area. The hardcover I had, I got signed by all of the extant makers in Spain and donated it to the Eibar Shotgun Museum, where it resides today.

The forum I mentioned (where I am part owner/moderator) has over 50 catalogs from all makers imaginable and according to the Eibar Museum is much more extensive than theirs and they use ours as a reference source. My visit to Eibar/Elogibar gun makers is also in the photo albulm as is a very nice series of photos of a classic old gun (1941 Mendicute sidelock) that I had restocked by my friend, Diego Godoy, before he died.

mendicute4 by ChorizoUSMC, on Flickr

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...gun_Forum/info

 

[...]

When you get it to bare wood I recommend pure linseed or tung oil, with Real Milk paint pure tung oil being what I use for hand lube on my wood.

yeah i usually use Linseed oil....however i might use Minwax antique oil finish, it should build and tint the wood a little darker than straight BLO....i guess they used beech on these guns, and applied some sort of laquer, it looks ok but its not very durable....

Good looking gun there Cameron... but I daresay that you've merely whetted your appetite...

Because once you start with a double, you will want to have the next one... and the next one... and the next one... until....

Below is my Purdey c. 1925 self-opener 12-ga. The carving is by a guy who I worked with on the PD. He is an absolute master. We've hunted together for more than 20 years.

Cheers,

Sirhr

oh you have no idea......i still have every intention of checking out Mclaines local shop and seeing if anything catches my eye.

as for Phesant hunting, im game.....any saturday/ sunday should work for me....

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Awesome! I have four Victor Sarasqueta's... my only Spanish doubles. They are really pretty amazing guns. Not at the level of London best. But absolutely fantastic guns in their own right. And at the top of the Spanish field in the 1960's when they were made. I tell a lot of people to look for Sarasqueta's. Not his son's stuff. The master.

I have heard that almost everything in Eibar is now gone. From the gun-guy at Orvis, which was importing a lot of guns from Spain up until about 10 years ago. What a shame. They were doing so well up until, what, the 2008 recession? I think that just killed them.

Ever go to New England Firearms when they were in business? They brought in a lot of fantastic Spanish guns. I never bought a Spanish from them. But bought at least a dozen guns including several Darne's and a bunch of English guns. Some 2nd Tier London guns and a few Birmingham best.

Doubles are addictive, aren't they? Precision rifles were always my 'work' guns. Doubles were for play.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Here's a nice Sarasqueta. Prices are up on his stuff! 10 years ago, this was a $1200 gun. That, if made in London, would have cost you 20x that.


http://www.gunbroker.com/item/702469004

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[chorizo]

Here is Diego Godoy, Master Gunmaker, working on my Mendicute shown above. This was one of the last custom jobs done by him. He did 4 for me and several for Kyrie, the other co-owner and mod at the Spanish Gun Forum

P6010173 by ChorizoUSMC, on Flickr

He also did rework on tow of these three that are in my stable

DSC_0029 by ChorizoUSMC, on Flickr

 

[chorizo]

Here are two of my AyA sidelocks. The top one is a 51 and the bottom a 53, both in 12 ga. The 51 was made in 1960 and the 53 in 9172. Both were reworked by Diego Godoy for me.

DSC_0214 by ChorizoUSMC, on Flickr

 

[chorizo]

An Armas Ego, also reworked by Diego Godoy

ego1 by ChorizoUSMC, on Flickr

 

[chorizo]

Eibar gun museum link:

http://www.armia-eibar.eus/en/museoa/museo

Do check out the forum. Well over 1000 photos of some of the best examples of Basque gunmaking, catalogs, photo albulm of Eibar visits, engraving examples, and a data base of all makers and their maker marks, and examples of locks, exploded diagrams and likely the most extensive collection of information, examples and Spanish proofing information on the web.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...gun_Forum/info

 

[chorizo]

Here is what I used today with my grandson hunting

Arrieta 871 RA in 16ga

arrieta+871+16ga2 by ChorizoUSMC, on Flickr

arrieta+871+16ga by ChorizoUSMC, on Flickr

Here is my Victor Sarasqueta 7E in 12ga after a successful morning. These birds in all my photos are wild birds here out west.


74573_1697136756901_584975_n by ChorizoUSMC, on Flickr

 

[pmclaine]

Oddly this thread makes me hungry.

Keep seeing Chorizo (best sausage ever - the food not the man) and these dead game birds.

Im thinking some sort of stew with bird cooked over an open fire in a smoky stone farmhouse on a cool misty fall day.

 

[SUIScide]

If you can swing it,a Ruger gold label is pretty awesome Super easy to carry, the round action fits the hand so much better than a box lock. IMHO the best thing argued ever made. Lots of their other guns have great utility or value but the Gold Label is just so what a shotgun should be

 

[chorizo]

If you can swing it,a Ruger gold label is pretty awesome Super easy to carry, the round action fits the hand so much better than a box lock. IMHO the best thing argued ever made. Lots of their other guns have great utility or value but the Gold Label is just so what a shotgun should be

Uhggg...I would have to disagree. Owned one and got rid of it. Flimsy in the hand and poorly regulated barrels. Pretty to look at though!

 

[...]

If you can swing it,a Ruger gold label is pretty awesome Super easy to carry, the round action fits the hand so much better than a box lock. IMHO the best thing argued ever made. Lots of their other guns have great utility or value but the Gold Label is just so what a shotgun should be

Eh....im not too enamored with rugers "high end " offerings....

the quality isnt there for what youre paying.

i just picked up a ruger no1.....and its a nice rifle.....but its not a $1200 rifle.....its more an $800 rifle....its cane with burred screws from the factory, the scope mounts were shit....and general fit and finish were "meh"

i picked up a wonchester m70 safari for the same price, and it outclasses the riger in every way

ruger makes good rugged firearms, and they should stick to that market......because they cant quite do it right when they try to bump it up a level

 

[Wyfox]

At one point in life I had an infatuation with doubles, miss hunting with them over my old GSP. The Ruger Gold Label really was a nice double at the original price point, I bought one of the first ones for about $2000, I ended up trading it to my dad for a B.Rizzini 28ga O/U. The prices of the Gold Labels have sky rocketed since.

 

[WATERWALKER]

I like shooting S X S shotguns as much as the next guy. I grew up shooting rabbits & pheasants w/ a side-by-side shotgun. As a personal tick, the gun must have double triggers.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I've always had this question rattling around in my head. In my home state, Michigan, the lower 1/2 of the state is limited to shotgun hunting only. Why is it that nobody ever built a side-by-side shotgun w/ rifled barrels for shooting deer or other game animals? Double rifled-barrels, double triggers & express iron sights. Kind of like a double rifle but for deer in midwestern states.

Is the main obstacle too much headache to bring the barrels into regulation, supply & demand or just zero interest? People use single-shot slug guns all the time. Why not a double barreled slug gun? I haven't lived in MI for quite some time, but I would still be interested in such a gun.

Thoughts?

 

[Quarter Horse]

I like shooting S X S shotguns as much as the next guy. I grew up shooting rabbits & pheasants w/ a side-by-side shotgun. As a personal tick, the gun must have double triggers.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I've always had this question rattling around in my head. In my home state, Michigan, the lower 1/2 of the state is limited to shotgun hunting only. Why is it that nobody ever built a side-by-side shotgun w/ rifled barrels for shooting deer or other game animals? Double rifled-barrels, double triggers & express iron sights. Kind of like a double rifle but for deer in midwestern states.

Is the main obstacle too much headache to bring the barrels into regulation, supply & demand or just zero interest? People use single-shot slug guns all the time. Why not a double barreled slug gun? I haven't lived in MI for quite some time, but I would still be interested in such a gun.

Thoughts?

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=131321&page=all

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I like shooting S X S shotguns as much as the next guy. I grew up shooting rabbits & pheasants w/ a side-by-side shotgun. As a personal tick, the gun must have double triggers.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I've always had this question rattling around in my head. In my home state, Michigan, the lower 1/2 of the state is limited to shotgun hunting only. Why is it that nobody ever built a side-by-side shotgun w/ rifled barrels for shooting deer or other game animals? Double rifled-barrels, double triggers & express iron sights. Kind of like a double rifle but for deer in midwestern states.

Is the main obstacle too much headache to bring the barrels into regulation, supply & demand or just zero interest? People use single-shot slug guns all the time. Why not a double barreled slug gun? I haven't lived in MI for quite some time, but I would still be interested in such a gun.

Thoughts?

Many companies have in the past. They were called "Paradox Guns" as that was something of a brand name that went generic. They shot rifled slugs of sorts. Or large single balls. The problem with them was regulating the shots to a single point of aim. (Same problem Double Rifles have)... which is exactly the point you brought up.

Thus making them very, very expensive. And most hunters want a shotgun with more than two shots. The Paradox guns were popular in Africa and India back in the colonial days... because they could be used to fill the pot with birds. And were very effective on dangerous game!

Great question, though. And I think you answered it yourself!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[chorizo]

Ugartechea made a 25" double slug gun for quite a while, but they are hard to find in the USA as very few were imported under the Parker Hale model 640 name from 1991-1993. Ugartechea marketed them as the Jabali and it was regulated to 50 meters with Brenneke 1 oz MP load choked cylinder/cylinder and with express rifle sights. In Spain, hunting with double shotguns with slugs (buckshot being illegal) was quite common for driven game (wild boar and stag) well into the 1990s. The vast majority of the shots 50 meters or less and lots of game was taken with them. That is one of the things that needs to be inspected on older used Spanish guns that were made for bird hunting...the left barrel (the more fully choked one) will have rings in the left barrel immediately before the chokes on guns that have had slugs shot from them on guns that were full choked.

http://www.ugartecheashotguns.com/models/jabali-cal12/

 

[...]

I like shooting S X S shotguns as much as the next guy. I grew up shooting rabbits & pheasants w/ a side-by-side shotgun. As a personal tick, the gun must have double triggers.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I've always had this question rattling around in my head. In my home state, Michigan, the lower 1/2 of the state is limited to shotgun hunting only. Why is it that nobody ever built a side-by-side shotgun w/ rifled barrels for shooting deer or other game animals? Double rifled-barrels, double triggers & express iron sights. Kind of like a double rifle but for deer in midwestern states.

Is the main obstacle too much headache to bring the barrels into regulation, supply & demand or just zero interest? People use single-shot slug guns all the time. Why not a double barreled slug gun? I haven't lived in MI for quite some time, but I would still be interested in such a gun.

Thoughts?

if someone would come out with a 10 or 12 gauge rifled slug gun SxS ide be all over that......in MA you cannot hunt with rifle, so im currently using a 12gauge bolt gun, but it lacks a certain panache.....so i just picked up a double rifle muzzle loader.

but as you suggested, the regulation is what makes it difficult....and probably the lack of demand.....


although around here, taking a shot over 50 yds is very unlikely, so maybe picking up something like a stoeger coach gun and screwing in some rifled chokes might work?

 

[WATERWALKER]

Years ago I had a cheap double (S X S) that shot Brenneke slugs really well. I killed a bunch of cottontails, ring-necks & partridge w/ this gun. I never should've gotten rid of it. While shooting partridge, I found that it really pays to shoot a semi-auto shotgun because you never know what you're going to get into. One time I saw a partridge fly over a tote road in the woods, and my buddy & I walked about 100 yards down the road to where I last saw the bird. I shot the first bird on log & six more birds broke from cover. In a flash, we each shot two birds more birds. I'll take five out of 7 any day.

Gentlemen, I appreciate the info on the side-by-side shotguns w/ rifled bores. I'll have to look into this a bit more. These days, I'm slumming it w/ my bird gun of choice, which is a Remington 1100 chambered in 20 ga. But, y'all are right, - there's nothing like hunting / shooting clays w/ a double!

 

[chorizo]

I have a stoeger silverado that shoots well with slugs out to 50 Yards The only draw back is lack of rifle sights making repeatable precise POA tough. I do better with the rifle sights rifled barrel on my 870 gun.

 

[WATERWALKER]

I was just looking at some of the websites y'all recommended. There's some good info attached. Thank you. But, before I forget, the doubles y'all posted pictures of are beautiful.

 

[XTR]

If you have $1500 to spend there are a lot of LC Smith Field grade 12s out there that will fit the bill nicely, and they don't look so nice that you're afraid to take them out of the house. You don't get removable chokes, but a M/F will do about anything you ask, and has for about 100 yrs