Gunsmithing Who pays for replacement barrel?

[flyfisherman246]

When somebody pays a gunsmith to chamber and thread a barrel, then the barrel maker determines it's a bad barrel after it fouls real bad or doesn't shoot, does the customer pay the gunsmith again to chamber and thread the replacement barrel? Or did the customer already spend his required money on the first barrel and the first round of smithing? I'm sure it's going to go both ways here, but what are your guys' thoughts?

 

[hlee]

My thoughts... If the fault is with the gunsmith, then the gunsmith is on the hook. If the fault is with the manufacturer of the barrel, then you’re paying the gunsmith again.

 

[Yellowfever440]

If it wasnt the smith's fault then i dont see why he should get the shaft on that. I would think if anyone was going to pay for it and the barrel was bad from the start then the barrel company should reimburse the smith for his work, but yet again the barrel company only sold a barrel blank i assume so really that would fall on you to cover the smith again.

 

[coontz74]

I am not a gunsmith or barrel maker so keep that in mind while reading my response...

I would not expect the gunsmith to pay or cover anything....a barrel that doesn’t shoot well could be contributed to many, many factors...load development, bench handling manners, scope, bedding...just to name a few.


If I were to buy a barrel for a project I would buy the best I could afford...

From what I have seen and experienced, the top barrel producers stand behind their product so if any issues were to arise I feel confident they would help in any way they could.


I guess the moral of my experiences is buy a top quality barrel and use a top tier smith. I think by doing this, most if not all issues that arise will be taken care of to your expectations.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

I would say it depends on if you provided the bad barrel to the smith or did he sell you the barrel as part of a complete product.

 

[Supersubes]

I

When somebody pays a gunsmith to chamber and thread a barrel, then the barrel maker determines it's a bad barrel after it fouls real bad or doesn't shoot, does the customer pay the gunsmith again to chamber and thread the replacement barrel? Or did the customer already spend his required money on the first barrel and the first round of smithing? I'm sure it's going to go both ways here, but what are your guys' thoughts?

In your situation, you’d pay again.

 

[Dthomas3523]

If you supplied the barrel, you pay the smith again and ask the barrel manufacturer to reimburse or compensate you accordingly since they already admitted their product was at fault.

If the smith supplied the barrel, then he should provide you with a product you already paid for and he should ask the manufacturer to reimburse or compensate him accordingly.

 

[LRI]

A premium grade barrel that is just a turd from the start is rare.

Read that again as its to your advantage as a consumer to know this. Mistakes happen with people involved so its not unheard of by any means, however the fallback excuse from smiths for decades has been to motherfuck the barrel company. We can't do that nearly so easily these days. Most have their shit wired pretty tight anymore.

So, when a barrel proves itself to be a lemon and the manufacturer validates this, the practice I adopt is to get it installed and the client back in the fight as soon as we can. Huffing and puffing over $300-$400 in a shop (to me) is a bit silly. The amount of mental anguish and drama capital expended is not worth it to me, but the warm reception from a client is priceless for an almost endless number of reasons. I'll make 3x + off the subsequent jobs that come rolling in here over the few hundred bucks that I saved by acting like they were the last dollars to my name.

Nobody ever said being ethical is cheap.

I've had barrel companies offer to compensate us for the added costs. I politely decline because someday I'll need a favor. Someday I'll be in a pinch. Industry courtesy in gunsmithing does exist if your a decent human being to people. I am of the opinion grease should always go up both sides of the street.

This helps you little, but it may put the situation into perspective.

 

[Terry Cross]

Agreed that if you are using a top barrel blank source, it is crazy rare for a "bad blank" to get out.
There is also a plethora of ways a "good blank" can be made to shoot poorly and even foul. A shitty chamber job that results in a rough lead and throat will tear jackets and deposit copper down the rest of a perfectly good bore.

When someone buys a blank and sends it to a shop for chambering and mounting, I can't see how the shop would be responsible for performance as long as they did proper machine work and handling on the barrel.

That is one of the good points about purchasing a totally built rifle that is test fired (not just for function/safety check) before shipping. The shop would likely spot any issues before shipping it and sort it out. Piecing everything out in different directions can make for more complicated resolution of any issues.

./

 

[Maxduty]

A premium grade barrel that is just a turd from the start is rare.

Read that again as its to your advantage as a consumer to know this. Mistakes happen with people involved so its not unheard of by any means, however the fallback excuse from smiths for decades has been to motherfuck the barrel company. We can't do that nearly so easily these days. Most have their shit wired pretty tight anymore.

So, when a barrel proves itself to be a lemon and the manufacturer validates this, the practice I adopt is to get it installed and the client back in the fight as soon as we can. Huffing and puffing over $300-$400 in a shop (to me) is a bit silly. The amount of mental anguish and drama capital expended is not worth it to me, but the warm reception from a client is priceless for an almost endless number of reasons. I'll make 3x + off the subsequent jobs that come rolling in here over the few hundred bucks that I saved by acting like a Jew accountant.

Nobody ever said being ethical is cheap.

I've had barrel companies offer to compensate us for the added costs. I politely decline because someday I'll need a favor. Someday I'll be in a pinch. Industry courtesy in gunsmithing does exist if your a decent human being to people. I am of the opinion grease should always go up both sides of the street.

This helps you little, but it may put the situation into perspective.

This is one of the many reasons these guys get the work they do. Going above and beyond sometimes is required in all industries. It helps with future contacts and contracts, all producing increased revenue. That's the bottom line of business. To shoot yourself in the foot over a few hundred when you stand to lose thousands is not good business.

 

[Supersubes]

I ran into a guy who had a barrel job done by a big name shop using a premium barrel. Gun shot poorly form the start. The barrel maker said it wasn’t their fault and the gunsmith gave some BS advice about cleaning and told him to keep shooting it. Neither entity wanted to see the barrel, even though it was requested by the owner. The owner didn’t have time for that so he washed his hands of the barrel, and the receiver went back to another smith for a new barrel. I asked and he gave me that barrel for next to nothing. I was very curious because I didn’t think it was likely a bad barrel.

I chucked the barrel up and dialed it in every way I could, and found the entire tenon and chamber were very crooked. If I recall the rear most portion of the chamber was out by ~.002, as was the tenon, and both on the same index. Not sure how that happened, but whatever. Had either entity taken the time to check their work, it would have been obvious who needed to take responsibility for it. The barrel was not a Bartlein or Krieger, and the shop isn’t represented on the hide I don’t think.

I hacked the entire chamber off, as well as the muzzle, and re-did it in the same cartridge. Barrel shoots great. I sent the previous owner some more money because that seemed like the right thing to do. If anyone needs a TL3 prefit in 6.5 creedmoor for super cheap, hit me up! It’s only got about 50 rounds through it.

Regarding Chad’s comments, I agree with him, but our businesses are different. He has the productivity to absorb that stuff much better than I do. I bet he does more barrels in a day than I do all year. Not sure if Terry is still manual machining. It takes me an entire work day to do a barrel front to back. Just a way bigger kick in the nuts for me to absorb. I’ve never actually been faced with this scenario yet. With my small volume, hopefully I can avoid it by always pushing premium barrels.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

After almost 40 years of doing this the barrel is last thing I blame. Many times it can be attributed to
1. unrealistic expectaions
2. action issues
3. stock/bedding issue
4. self inflicted problems
5. something I did or overlooked when building the rifle.

Hell look at how well factory barrels shoot. They make em just as fast and cheap as possible

like Chad the first thing is get it fixed then let's talk about it.

 

[300Magnum]

This is coming form a gunsmith. if its the gunsmiths fault he buy the barrel and dose the work for free, Iv srapped my fare there of barrels most of the comers dont even know that i did. but if it stated out as a barrel contoured blank and its the manufashers fault then thay just replace the barrel blank

 

[chevy_man]

You're seeing why some of these guys have stellar reputations and are making a good business great with just attitude and ethics.


There are very few barrels that go out of any shop that don't have the potential to shoot well. I'm in the camp that 90% of the barrel is the chamber and throat reaming and the crown.

I've seen sloppy threads shoot amazing (savages). I've seen rough nasty rusted pitted bores hold less than moa. But I've never seen a bad chamber/throat shoot well and I've seen crown erosion so bad accuracy came back with a simple hand reamer touch up.

 

[supercorndogs]

A premium grade barrel that is just a turd from the start is rare.

Read that again as its to your advantage as a consumer to know this. Mistakes happen with people involved so its not unheard of by any means, however the fallback excuse from smiths for decades has been to motherfuck the barrel company. We can't do that nearly so easily these days. Most have their shit wired pretty tight anymore.

So, when a barrel proves itself to be a lemon and the manufacturer validates this, the practice I adopt is to get it installed and the client back in the fight as soon as we can. Huffing and puffing over $300-$400 in a shop (to me) is a bit silly. The amount of mental anguish and drama capital expended is not worth it to me, but the warm reception from a client is priceless for an almost endless number of reasons. I'll make 3x + off the subsequent jobs that come rolling in here over the few hundred bucks that I saved by acting like a Jew accountant.

Nobody ever said being ethical is cheap.

I've had barrel companies offer to compensate us for the added costs. I politely decline because someday I'll need a favor. Someday I'll be in a pinch. Industry courtesy in gunsmithing does exist if your a decent human being to people. I am of the opinion grease should always go up both sides of the street.

This helps you little, but it may put the situation into perspective.

He doesnt just say this either, he does it. LRI built me a 308 with lemon Krieger barrel. I identified it would not shoot, talked with LRI, sent it back, they confirmed it wouldn't shoot. Put a new barrel on, sent it back to me, and told me once in blue moon you get a top quality blank that for no apparent reason wont shoot.

It is certain these practices have brought in more money than they have put out, making it right as favor to a customer, rather than taking a "sorry not my fault approach." I wouldn't have blamed LRI really. I would have been mad, but its out of their control. I don't send things to other places anymore, just LRI. They did me a favor, Thank you LRI, not many businesses do that.

 

[Ledzep]

My God I love this place. Chad Dixon is on here talking about the cost of ethics. Glad you finally see the light buddy.

Such a gracious fellow I do say, good sir. Lmao ....

 

[Geno C.]

Most all the barrel makers I’ve visited in person have a bucket full of “junk” barrels that they’ve replaced. How long it takes to fill that bucket, I’ve never asked. I have asked what they do to determine that they were indeed “junk”. Most respond that they are money ahead to just replace it because the time involved to verify that it’s the shooter or load or chamber or any one of a bunch of other things that will make a barrel isn’t worth the hassle or mad customer.

I used to get these returned barrels from one maker and I never found one that I couldn’t get to shoot quite well.

 

[RyanScott]

This is why I like guns that take prefits. I don’t buy chambering and threading services I buy barrels. Barrels shoot or don’t shoot. No question whose problem it is if it doesn’t shoot, it’s the guy who sold me the barrel.

 

[LRI]

This is why I like guns that take prefits. I don’t buy chambering and threading services I buy barrels. Barrels shoot or don’t shoot. No question whose problem it is if it doesn’t shoot, it’s the guy who sold me the barrel.

And there is certainly a place for this. I, however, take a different approach. Guns (to me anyway) are something to be coveted and admired. Not only for on-paper performance, but for the overall fit, finish, and functionality. That will never happen with a "mater stake" prefit. It can't. Thread timing, engraving alignment, fluting, etc... The people I (and many others) target for my business would never tolerate it. -trust me, if I screw it up, I hear about it.

I get that firearms for many are merely tools for a singular purpose. I just hope the romance doesn't die in the process.

I walked into a Scheels sporting goods on Saturday to buy some patches/jags. I trolled the used section and found a FOUR digit pre 64 that maybe had 100 rounds put through it. Its now in my safe. Some kid got it from his Grandfather and traded it for a black gun. That is just both sad and gay.

I would beat my grandson's ass.

 

[Cjl2010]

Just had a barrel replaced from proof with the help of lone peak arms. The place that built my rifle wasn’t interested in Helping me diagnose any problems so Brian told me to ship the barreled action to him. He did the legwork with proof and a replacement barrel was sent to me. All that got sent to chad at LRI and life goes on. Learned that I really like LPA and will continue using their actions and I liked the communication and quick turnaround from LRI and will continue to use them. About a $900 lesson to learn what smith not to use anymore.

 

[RyanScott]

And there is certainly a place for this. I, however, take a different approach. Guns (to me anyway) are something to be coveted and admired. Not only for on-paper performance, but for the overall fit, finish, and functionality. That will never happen with a "mater stake" prefit. It can't. Thread timing, engraving alignment, fluting, etc... The people I (and many others) target for my business would never tolerate it. -trust me, if I screw it up, I hear about it.

I get that firearms for many are merely tools for a singular purpose. I just hope the romance doesn't die in the process.

I walked into a Scheels sporting goods on Saturday to buy some patches/jags. I trolled the used section and found a FOUR digit pre 64 that maybe had 100 rounds put through it. Its now in my safe. Some kid got it from his Grandfather and traded it for a black gun. That is just both sad and gay.

I would beat my grandson's ass.

I get that too. I have friends in the custom pistol business and know some custom rifle guys. I don’t mean tactical rifles I mean $15-30k walnut stocked rust blued rifles. Someday I intend to own a Heym 450-400. But for everyday shooting I like modular.

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

If a customer cannot get one of my rifles to shoot, I ask them to send it back to me. If I cannot get it to shoot to my expectations, I re-barrel the rifle for free, even if the manufacturer won't cover the cost of replacement. Done deal. Only happened twice so far in 4.5 years.

 

[bohem]

For us it depends who sends us the blank. The big name places like Rock Creek, Kreiger, etc are all very good at what they're doing. We have an excellent relationship with Rock and the very, very few times I've had to send back a dud barrel Russ has taken good care of us. The customer got a replacement from me with all the labor done and it was not an extra charge.

When someone sends me a blank, doesn't matter who it came from, we warranty the labor for defects. If the barrel is actually a turd the customer is responsible for dealing with the manufacturer of the blank because they are the person that bought it and I have no leverage to get it replaced. THat has happened 2 times in 5 years and both times we just recut the new blank at no additional charge to the client. I dealt with the barrel manufacturer and one of them sent me a free blank, the other told me it wasn't their responsibility at all. We don't supply their blanks to customers any more.

With Rock Creek, we have done so many barrels in the last 3+ years with them that Russ doesn't ask me for a blank back anymore. After literally thousands of blanks I can still count the number of bad blanks on two hands and still have fingers leftover for eating cheetos.

The state of the internet being what it is I am accused of "I think you made me a bad barrel" about once a week. About once a quarter is there actually something wrong that doesn't stem from a litany of other factors such as bad scopes, bad assembly, the trigger isn't fit propertly, the bolt handle is rubbing, etc etc etc. One such example was a guy who brought me a R700 we rebarreled claimed we had sent a bent barrel because he couldn't get his windage turret to zero out.

After trying to convince him it wasn't the barrel we rebarreled it. He took the new barrel to the range and it to had the same problem. Root cause turned out to be that he didn't realize his Nightforce had a windage rev limiter and his zero stop was set for the factory barrel and he had no idea how to adjust it. Once that was fixed he went on his merry way... and left us with a perfectly good barrel that had 7 rounds down it for his Rem 700. "Uh well I don't need 2 barrels, so I'm just going to keep this one. You can cut that in to something else right?"

The market is enjoying a time period where a mastercard and a workspace in your garage means you can be a precision rifle armorer. There is a laundry list of things to check on the rifle during assembly and during loading of ammo. It's pretty simple here, if we can't figure out the problem via email the ENTIRE rifle comes in, not just the "bad barrel". The vast majority of the time I can find the assembly issue in about half an hour, then I fix it, take it to the range and pump a box of PRIME or Hornady through the thing and we send it back with a bill for services.

If it's a full rifle that we assembled and there is something wrong with the assembly then there is no charge for services as we should have caught it before it left. But that's a hard guarantee to offer on a prefit barrel that we can't control any part of the assembly process.