Who pays for the burned cabin?

[TheTick]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You accuse me of single mindedness, yet fail to see any situation that would warrant LE lighting a building on fire. </div></div>
You don't know how rich that reads.

There are guys here that have more time in isolation and bird rides to playgrounds than you have trying to grow up. </div></div>

I am going to remain respectful. Neither one of us knows the other's background and life experiences.

I could be called a "gunfighter" also.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats really chickenshit. They just burn the womans home down cause theyte not smart enough to figure out another way. Just for spite. They could have just waited him out, turned off power and water. If theyd man up and pay for it thats one thing, but what are the odds of that with out an expensive legal battle? Chickenshit. </div></div>

"No thanks" on your advice on handling SWAT jobs. In all sincerety and respectfully, I would not tell you the best way to do your job as I am unqualified.

"Yes", they very well may have launched "hot gas" into the structure. It is a legit UOF option. Deadly force is deadly force. If they fired "hot gas" inside, then the SBSO's insurance will pay out. Our insurance has paid for damage done by us launching "ferret rounds" through people's walls on tac jobs numerous times.

Are you saying all is well and not "chickenshit" if the insurance pays out? If so, you are calling "chickenshit" for something that has not even happened yet.

A little bit of a side note: Do you believe that the US was correct in dropping the atomic bomb on Japan or should they have invaded the mainland of Japan and gotten "X" amount of people killed on both sides in the process? Are US troops correct in dropping JDAMs on a house to kill a lone enemy combatant inside? My answer is "yes" in both situations... and Dorner's.</div></div>

I have been an outspoken critic of SWAT teams. I think we would be better off without most of them. That being said, I guess I should be thankful when they hit the wrong house with a SWAT team instead of just burning it down.

You using a military context to judge the appropriate of law enforcement actions is the exact problem with the direction LE is going in the US. The fact your mind even went there is telling.

JDAMs and law enforcement. Guess its just a matter of time. Bring on the armed drones, lets destroy criminals and the Constitution from the comfort of the command vehicle.

 

[HBAM1]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cserv</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A78063</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chris Dorners surviving family members, his mother, (the woman we saw watching her son shooting it out with LE while eating and drinking at a restaraunt), should be billed.

Dorner was a "bad guy", pure and simple, he Murdered 2 innocent people, and 2 LE officers.

This has got to be the most retarded fucking thing I've read this morning. So with this line of thought, your mother and family should be held responsible for your fuck ups? You present yourself as a fucking idiot. A man is responsible for his own actions, no one else. Or do you believe others are responsible for what you do?
Dumb.


The burnt cabin is collateral damage. </div></div></div></div>

Dorner's family hid shit from LE, we know that now.
Fuck his family and his friends, they treated him like a HERO.
He is a lowlife, and his entire entourage are lowlifes, if it was up to me, I would have invited the whole lot of them up for tea in the cabin, then burned it down.

 

[Guest]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going to remain respectful. Neither one of us knows the other's background and life experiences.

I could be called a "gunfighter" also. </div></div>
Just an FYI, That on was given to me in 1965 by my C/O, after using a M14e2 to hold dirt.

 

[waveone]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Nonsense & Typical rationalization.

Keep telling yourself that dude. </div></div>

If I have to I guess. I have never lost sight of the fact that we need public support. But, I also understand that sometimes I have to make decisions that are not popular and I am comfortable with that as it's what I signed up for.

Are you even capable of understanding that the argument works in both directions? Sorry to say it, but your understanding of Deadly Force is incorrect. The same would be said if you worked as an Engineer on the Space Shuttle. I would defer to your expertise. We can disagree, but is it possible that I understand the UOF in LE better than you? </div></div>

Again, this is a typical rationalization and gross presumption by you in order to isolate and place me in a defensive position. You've mastered your training bud

While you might have a better understanding do us both a favor and resist the overwhelming urge to condescend to speak to me. A small point of clarification from me to you is , I have a brain and a reasoning capacity that I strive to engage in a cold, objective manner as reflexively s possible. Furthermore, though I am not full time, I do function as a reservist deputy in a small town. In other words I do see it clearly, in comprehensive fashion as noted by my previous posts which have provided context for my POV and which have been summarily disregarded by you.

I speak to this issue as a whole, not parsing fashion in order to validate my disjointed logic which exonerates my brothers in blue- who flagrantly disregarded the rule of law. They essentially stated so from the get -go as well.

Let's break it down though to the final scene. The perp and therefore the threat was contained. He was isolated and surrounded. Instead of employing a robot to assess, or flash-bangs, or gas to overwhelm him then take advantage of his presumed disorientation, they opted to "burn the M-Fer out" . Or perhaps they could have used real sense, done all of the above, then cut off all utilities, and waited him out. Instead, within a couple hours they engaged their formulated plan to burn himn out- as noted by the now public transmissions.

So, do everyone a favor including yourself. Stop the half baked attempts at justifying this charade and assuming a position of superiority in the field of criminal justice.

A level playing field is a real bitch when the reality of others can't be manipulated huh?

 

[waveone]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going to remain respectful. Neither one of us knows the other's background and life experiences.

I could be called a "gunfighter" also. </div></div>
Just an FYI, That on was given to me in 1965 by my C/O, after using a M14e2 to hold dirt. </div></div>


Gunfighter- I know you're an intelligent individual but you must understand the mindset here. LEO are trained to marginalize, discredit , then place suspects on the defensive. THat's why most LEO's that have responded to these threads resort to name calling and smear tactics when they disagree. Very simple minded, but very effective actually

 

[Guest]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> but you must understand the mindset here. LEO are trained to marginalize, discredit , then place suspects on the defensive. THat's why most LEO's that have responded to these threads resort to name calling and smear tactics when they disagree. Very simple minded, but very effective actually </div></div>
Only with sheep.
We as a nation (self included)have been asleep at the wheel for far to long. Now push back is starting and the unchecked to this point don't like it. I for one could care less what they like or don't like they work for me. They can either do the job properly or hit the road, none of them have GOD in their title or name, although I strongly believe some of them believe they are one.

In some circles, certain SWAT teams = S-uckass's W-anting A T-tention

 

[waveone]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> but you must understand the mindset here. LEO are trained to marginalize, discredit , then place suspects on the defensive. THat's why most LEO's that have responded to these threads resort to name calling and smear tactics when they disagree. Very simple minded, but very effective actually </div></div>
Only with sheep.
We as a nation (self included)have been asleep at the wheel for far to long. Now push back is starting and the unchecked to this point don't like it. I for one could care less what they like or don't like they work for me. They can either do the job properly or hit the road, none of them have GOD in their title or name, although I strongly believe some of them believe they are one.

In some circles, certain SWAT teams = S-uckass's W-anting A T-tention </div></div>

While I agree in principle, what you don't understand or at least have not articulated is that the LEO's Do Not work for you. By very nature of the new moniker and new culture Law Enforcement works for the System, not the taxpayer-serf.

You are correct in your assessment of being asleep at the wheel. Unfortunately that slumber has cost us dearly to the extent that you see the level of indoctrination exhibited in the reflexive responses of many LEO in defense of the brethren on the board. Furthermore the culture change has been effected and the infrastructure is now in place. It has been for some time now, we are just realizing it's affects.

The Sheriff is the only LEO that actually works for the tax- payer and does so only in an elected capacity. There are many Policemen and women who are fine individuals. True servants of liberty and justice who do what they do because it is their calling. Unfortunately that contingent is diminishing by the day- purposely.

 

[TheTick]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Nonsense & Typical rationalization.

Keep telling yourself that dude. </div></div>

If I have to I guess. I have never lost sight of the fact that we need public support. But, I also understand that sometimes I have to make decisions that are not popular and I am comfortable with that as it's what I signed up for.

Are you even capable of understanding that the argument works in both directions? Sorry to say it, but your understanding of Deadly Force is incorrect. The same would be said if you worked as an Engineer on the Space Shuttle. I would defer to your expertise. We can disagree, but is it possible that I understand the UOF in LE better than you? </div></div>

Again, this is a typical rationalization and gross presumption by you in order to isolate and place me in a defensive position. You've mastered your training bud

While you might have a better understanding do us both a favor and resist the overwhelming urge to condescend to speak to me. A small point of clarification from me to you is , I have a brain and a reasoning capacity that I strive to engage in a cold, objective manner as reflexively s possible. Furthermore, though I am not full time, I do function as a reservist deputy in a small town. In other words I do see it clearly, in comprehensive fashion as noted by my previous posts which have provided context for my POV and which have been summarily disregarded by you.

I speak to this issue as a whole, not parsing fashion in order to validate my disjointed logic which exonerates my brothers in blue- who flagrantly disregarded the rule of law. They essentially stated so from the get -go as well.

Let's break it down though to the final scene. The perp and therefore the threat was contained. He was isolated and surrounded. Instead of employing a robot to assess, or flash-bangs, or gas to overwhelm him then take advantage of his presumed disorientation, they opted to "burn the M-Fer out" . Or perhaps they could have used real sense, done all of the above, then cut off all utilities, and waited him out. Instead, within a couple hours they engaged their formulated plan to burn himn out- as noted by the now public transmissions.

So, do everyone a favor including yourself. Stop the half baked attempts at justifying this charade and assuming a position of superiority in the field of criminal justice.

A level playing field is a real bitch when the reality of others can't be manipulated huh? </div></div>

The more you say, the more we agree. Seriously. All the things you said are available and often used options, no doubt. But to say that LE should NEVER light a house on fire is closed minded.

I am not going to defend SBSO and possible Dorner house burn specifically. I was in Philadelphia, PA at the time. I am not trying to manipulate anyone, I am just saying that it is a real world UOF option.

If LAPD or SBSO did something wrong, then let them hang. You won't EVER find me defending a dirty cop.

 

[TheTick]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going to remain respectful. Neither one of us knows the other's background and life experiences.

I could be called a "gunfighter" also. </div></div>
Just an FYI, That on was given to me in 1965 by my C/O, after using a M14e2 to hold dirt. </div></div>

Respectfully Sir, thank you for your service I promise you that it is not lost on me. You gained that knowledge when I was minus 15 years old.

I am not trying to slander anyone, be disrespectful, call anyone names, anything. I am simply trying to say that lighting a structure on fire is a viable UOF action ****IF**** needed...

I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS NEEDED IN DORNER'S CASE.

 

[TheTick]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going to remain respectful. Neither one of us knows the other's background and life experiences.

I could be called a "gunfighter" also. </div></div>
Just an FYI, That on was given to me in 1965 by my C/O, after using a M14e2 to hold dirt. </div></div>


Gunfighter- I know you're an intelligent individual but you must understand the mindset here. LEO are trained to marginalize, discredit , then place suspects on the defensive. THat's why most LEO's that have responded to these threads resort to name calling and smear tactics when they disagree. Very simple minded, but very effective actually </div></div>

I have not been trained in any of those things. I never called anyone any names or smeared anyone. Please don't paint with such a wide brush stroke. I realize there are toolboxes in my beloved profession... I'm not one of them.

 

[Guest]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[I am simply trying to say that lighting a structure on fire is a viable UOF action ****IF**** needed...

I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS NEEDED IN DORNER'S CASE. </div></div>
I am going to disagree. There are many ways to make a person want to exit a hole or building w/o burning it down.
Turning off the power and utility's is holly wood shit with hard core. When you get to that level there are many ways to make them eat one on their own, or come out willingly.
Not all things that work perfect, come from the USA.

 

[TheTick]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[I am simply trying to say that lighting a structure on fire is a viable UOF action ****IF**** needed...

I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS NEEDED IN DORNER'S CASE. </div></div>
I am going to disagree. There are many ways to make a person want to exit a hole or building w/o burning it down.
Turning off the power and utility's is holly wood shit with hard core. When you get to that level there are many ways to make them eat one on their own, or come out willingly.
Not all things that work perfect, come from the USA. </div></div>

Again, I agree that there are umpteen thousand different options, but I disagree in my statement that launching "hot gas" is on the list. Its WAY down at the bottom, but it's there.

We are just never going to agree, my friend. But, I respect your platform and your right to speak from it. As well as your right to own firearms to guard against a tyrannical government. You may be shocked to find me jumping in your foxhole with you someday if you would allow it...

 

[TheTick]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

While you might have a better understanding do us both a favor and resist the overwhelming urge to condescend to speak to me. A small point of clarification from me to you is , I have a brain and a reasoning capacity that I strive to engage in a cold, objective manner as reflexively s possible. Furthermore, though I am not full time, I do function as a reservist deputy in a small town. In other words I do see it clearly, in comprehensive fashion as noted by my previous posts which have provided context for my POV and which have been summarily disregarded by you.

A level playing field is a real bitch when the reality of others can't be manipulated huh? </div></div>

Also, since you pointed it out. I am not "speaking to you" in any condescending way. Yet, you lecture me after stating this earlier:

"More influence from mental midgets such as the you and the tick, it soon will be."

I'll still remain respectful, especially toward Gunfighter because he has engaged in a healthy debate on a differing view point.

Why don't you take your own advice, brother?

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A78063</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cserv</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A78063</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chris Dorners surviving family members, his mother, (the woman we saw watching her son shooting it out with LE while eating and drinking at a restaraunt), should be billed.

Dorner was a "bad guy", pure and simple, he Murdered 2 innocent people, and 2 LE officers.

This has got to be the most retarded fucking thing I've read this morning. So with this line of thought, your mother and family should be held responsible for your fuck ups? You present yourself as a fucking idiot. A man is responsible for his own actions, no one else. Or do you believe others are responsible for what you do?
Dumb.


The burnt cabin is collateral damage. </div></div></div></div>

Dorner's family hid shit from LE, we know that now.
Fuck his family and his friends, they treated him like a HERO.
He is a lowlife, and his entire entourage are lowlifes, if it was up to me, I would have invited the whole lot of them up for tea in the cabin, then burned it down.
</div></div>

You advocate the murder of those who would debate the actions of LAPD and SBSD or act as Devil's Advocates in discussing them?

My, how quaint.

 

[waveone]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

While you might have a better understanding do us both a favor and resist the overwhelming urge to condescend to speak to me. A small point of clarification from me to you is , I have a brain and a reasoning capacity that I strive to engage in a cold, objective manner as reflexively s possible. Furthermore, though I am not full time, I do function as a reservist deputy in a small town. In other words I do see it clearly, in comprehensive fashion as noted by my previous posts which have provided context for my POV and which have been summarily disregarded by you.

A level playing field is a real bitch when the reality of others can't be manipulated huh? </div></div>

Also, since you pointed it out. I am not "speaking to you" in any condescending way. Yet, you lecture me after stating this earlier:

"More influence from mental midgets such as the you and the tick, it soon will be."

I'll still remain respectful, especially toward Gunfighter because he has engaged in a healthy debate on a differing view point.

Why don't you take your own advice, brother? </div></div>

I stand corrected on my approach and agree with you here. So please accept my apologies. Your point is well taken

I do not justify any of my actions here yet by way of explanation,what set me off was the initial point about justifying the action through referencing Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As I stated, and continue to stand on my points , this is not a theatre of war. However, again in light of this latest discourse , I could have handled the situation in a less provocative manner. Like your stated position I abhor certain exceptions that I see from those who are sworn to do differently. In short it angers me.

That is about all I have to say on this matter.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

Fuck Dorner. The owner of the cabin will be compensated by someone; likely the insurer will go hard at the county LE agency for compensation.

I really don't give the first Fuck about Dorner, as I'm sure most agree. It is more than passing hypocritical in these Sovietized times we are enduring that a gun confiscating advocate of civilian disarmament goes on killing rampage and all the media whores want to talk about are the vestiges of racism, LAPD's supposed history of hostility to minorities and not a word about the weapons this anti-assault weapon scumbag used.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is more than passing hypocritical in these Sovietized times we are enduring that a gun confiscating advocate of civilian disarmament goes on killing rampage and all the media whores want to talk about are the vestiges of racism, LAPD's supposed history of hostility to minorities and not a word about the weapons this anti-assault weapon scumbag used. </div></div>

Vestiges of racism? There's no room for us on LAPD and LASD only tolerates us as reserves. I'll take it as a much-deserved gimme that <span style="font-style: italic">l'affaire Dorner</span> hasn't seemed to muddy the floor of the great assault weapons debate very much.

 

[TheTick]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I stand corrected on my approach and agree with you here. So please accept my apologies. Your point is well taken

I do not justify any of my actions here yet by way of explanation,what set me off was the initial point about justifying the action through referencing Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As I stated, and continue to stand on my points , this is not a theatre of war. However, again in light of this latest discourse , I could have handled the situation in a less provocative manner. Like your stated position I abhor certain exceptions that I see from those who are sworn to do differently. In short it angers me.

That is about all I have to say on this matter. </div></div>

We're cool, man (if it matters to you). I guess I could clarify also now that I see what spun you up. I was not trying to equate LE to a theatre of war, even though I see how you got there. I was trying to point out examples of very ugly acts that were/ are committed that more than likely saved lives. Ugly sometimes is necessary.

All the things that you and Gunfighter mentioned are tremedous options in the toolbox and should be explored, if possible, before Deadly Force is utilized. I am just asking you guys to consider adding "Hot Gas" to the list OPTIONS, not a "go to", but just a HOLY FUCK "in case of emergency, break glass" option. That is what it is for our team, just another option in a big bag of tricks. If you can't get there, that's fine. I can respect that because your position is at least based on logic and not ignorance. I don't respect anyone more for simply stating "I'm glad the cops set the house on fire, because cops are always right".

I truly don't know what led them to light up the house if in fact they did. If it was done improperly, then I will be one of the first ones to call "bullshit". "Positive" results should not reinforce negative behaviors.

On another side bar: I feel safe mentioning this in the relative annonymity of the internet. A good number of years ago when I was a young(er) tyke, my dad was held hostage add a SWAT team made forcible entry (if you would like verification, I can PM you the link to the newspaper article). Things were done and my father recieved an injury that should not have happened and was not cared for properly after said injury. The team's insurance company, rightfully, compensated my father. I am ULTRA sensitive to stuff like that now. I have recently "promoted" to Assistant Team Leader and can state with absolute honesty, that we operate on the "up and up". I know not everyone is going to believe that, but I can certainly rest my head soundly on my pillow each night knowing that I have nothing to sweat.

Be safe man, guys get bit more easily in small towns than the busy ones...

 

[TheTick]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is more than passing hypocritical in these Sovietized times we are enduring that a gun confiscating advocate of civilian disarmament goes on killing rampage and all the media whores want to talk about are the vestiges of racism, LAPD's supposed history of hostility to minorities and not a word about the weapons this anti-assault weapon scumbag used. </div></div>

Vestiges of racism? There's no room for us on LAPD and LASD only tolerates us as reserves. I'll take it as a much-deserved gimme that <span style="font-style: italic">l'affaire Dorner</span> hasn't seemed to muddy the floor of the great assault weapons debate very much. </div></div>

I dunno, he was advocating an AWB right?... then he went on a shooting spree with an "assault weapon". Maybe he was saying, "Look at me, I'm batshit crazy and I got a gun!".

WTF, over?

 

[waveone]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waveone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I stand corrected on my approach and agree with you here. So please accept my apologies. Your point is well taken

I do not justify any of my actions here yet by way of explanation,what set me off was the initial point about justifying the action through referencing Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As I stated, and continue to stand on my points , this is not a theatre of war. However, again in light of this latest discourse , I could have handled the situation in a less provocative manner. Like your stated position I abhor certain exceptions that I see from those who are sworn to do differently. In short it angers me.

That is about all I have to say on this matter. </div></div>

We're cool, man (if it matters to you). I guess I could clarify also now that I see what spun you up. I was not trying to equate LE to a theatre of war, even though I see how you got there. I was trying to point out examples of very ugly acts that were/ are committed that more than likely saved lives. Ugly sometimes is necessary.

All the things that you and Gunfighter mentioned are tremedous options in the toolbox and should be explored, if possible, before Deadly Force is utilized. I am just asking you guys to consider adding "Hot Gas" to the list OPTIONS, not a "go to", but just a HOLY FUCK "in case of emergency, break glass" option. That is what it is for our team, just another option in a big bag of tricks. If you can't get there, that's fine. I can respect that because your position is at least based on logic and not ignorance. I don't respect anyone more for simply stating "I'm glad the cops set the house on fire, because cops are always right".

I truly don't know what led them to light up the house if in fact they did. If it was done improperly, then I will be one of the first ones to call "bullshit". "Positive" results should not reinforce negative behaviors.

On another side bar: I feel safe mentioning this in the relative annonymity of the internet. A good number of years ago when I was a young(er) tyke, my dad was held hostage add a SWAT team made forcible entry (if you would like verification, I can PM you the link to the newspaper article). Things were done and my father recieved an injury that should not have happened and was not cared for properly after said injury. The team's insurance company, rightfully, compensated my father. I am ULTRA sensitive to stuff like that now. I have recently "promoted" to Assistant Team Leader and can state with absolute honesty, that we operate on the "up and up". I know not everyone is going to believe that, but I can certainly rest my head soundly on my pillow each night knowing that I have nothing to sweat.

Be safe man, guys get bit more easily in small towns than the busy ones... </div></div>

It absolutely matters. The Bottom Line here is we're all Americans thus we all have much on the line.

WE have been divided at almost every juncture and played by the system which is now out of control. That said, as I stated I see all the issues and attempt to maintain "equilibrium" but that proves a challenge at times.

Discussions that are as passionate as these are good because we can sift through the differences , find the common ground and work from there. Being in a position of authority as you now find yourself matters also because you will influence your team as well as others. All of your experiences count and can now be drawn upon, including the issue with your Dad. Since you are a man of integrity , that is a good thing. I don't need details , your word is sufficient.

And Roger that on the potential for getting bit. Especially with all the gang bangers and illegals , which was my motivation for stepping up. Can't stand what has happened as a result.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...what you don't understand or at least have not articulated is that the LEO's Do Not work for you.</div></div>

Not for a long time.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is more than passing hypocritical in these Sovietized times we are enduring that a gun confiscating advocate of civilian disarmament goes on killing rampage and all the media whores want to talk about are the vestiges of racism, LAPD's supposed history of hostility to minorities and not a word about the weapons this anti-assault weapon scumbag used. </div></div>

Vestiges of racism? There's no room for us on LAPD and LASD only tolerates us as reserves. I'll take it as a much-deserved gimme that <span style="font-style: italic">l'affaire Dorner</span> hasn't seemed to muddy the floor of the great assault weapons debate very much. </div></div>

I dunno, he was advocating an AWB right?... then he went on a shooting spree with an "assault weapon". Maybe he was saying, "Look at me, I'm batshit crazy and I got a gun!".

WTF, over? </div></div>

I get the dripping irony. What would you rather have? The press using him as a shining example of why none of us should have access to efficient, well-fed long weapons, or as an example of continuing problems in a burg that a little over fifty years ago managed to bulldoze an entire Mexican-American neighborhood through corruption and deprivation of due process rights? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chavez_Ravine

 

[Guest]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...what you don't understand or at least have not articulated is that the LEO's Do Not work for you.</div></div>

Not for a long time. </div></div>
Be sure to remember that when the public tit, runs dry.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Who pays for the burned cabin?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is more than passing hypocritical in these Sovietized times we are enduring that a gun confiscating advocate of civilian disarmament goes on killing rampage and all the media whores want to talk about are the vestiges of racism, LAPD's supposed history of hostility to minorities and not a word about the weapons this anti-assault weapon scumbag used. </div></div>

Vestiges of racism? There's no room for us on LAPD and LASD only tolerates us as reserves. I'll take it as a much-deserved gimme that <span style="font-style: italic">l'affaire Dorner</span> hasn't seemed to muddy the floor of the great assault weapons debate very much. </div></div>

I dunno, he was advocating an AWB right?... then he went on a shooting spree with an "assault weapon". Maybe he was saying, "Look at me, I'm batshit crazy and I got a gun!".

WTF, over? </div></div>

I get the dripping irony. What would you rather have? The press using him as a shining example of why none of us should have access to efficient, well-fed long weapons, or as an example of continuing problems in a burg that a little over fifty years ago managed to bulldoze an entire Mexican-American neighborhood through corruption and deprivation of due process rights? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chavez_Ravine </div></div>

What I'd rather have discussed is what is plainly evident: the answer to the much bandied question; "What does anyone need with an AR-15?"

Here is a bat shit crazy SOB out on an irrational vengeance quest, armed to the teeth and murdered a young woman and her fiance who had nothing whatsoever to do with his undoubtedly deserved termination and subsequent denial of his appeal.

Regardless of what is said by those who earnestly believe that the most pressing thing this nation must resolve is gay marriage, people will always need to defend themselves from predators.

We who obey the law need High capacity rifles for the very reason that there are those among us with the disproportionate advantage of their planning, surprise, and intent that may only be neutralized by superior firepower.

The press refuses to address this story on these grounds because they prefer to yell the question in the belief that no answer exists. Several answers do exist and they are made plain by Dorner's actions and hypocrisy as well as the change of subject by media whores.

As to the Chavez Ravine story, frankly, I expected something far more damning regarding the LASD. It really wasn't such an egregious land grab given the history of Eminent Domain theft in this nation's history; for the glorification of bureaucrats and politicians at the expense of the unfortunate folks in the way of "Progress".

 

[tracvision]

Fuck Dorner. The owner of the cabin will be compensated by someone; likely the insurer will go hard at the county LE agency for compensation.

I really don't give the first Fuck about Dorner, as I'm sure most agree. It is more than passing hypocritical in these Sovietized times we are enduring that a gun confiscating advocate of civilian disarmament goes on killing rampage and all the media whores want to talk about are the vestiges of racism, LAPD's supposed history of hostility to minorities and not a word about the weapons this anti-assault weapon scumbag used.

It appeard LAPD was also on a killing rampage. As someone said earlier, lucky they suck with weapons training. No justification can be given for firing on unarmed civilians as they did.

 

[Slapchop]

It appeard LAPD was also on a killing rampage. As someone said earlier, lucky they suck with weapons training. No justification can be given for firing on unarmed civilians as they did.

I don't recall any justification being given for actions of the LAPD against those women. This horse has already been beaten to death, revived and beaten to death all over again. Several times. Welcome to two months ago.

 

[tracvision]

I don't recall any justification being given for actions of the LAPD against those women. This horse has already been beaten to death, revived and beaten to death all over again. Several times. Welcome to two months ago.

Thanks for your input slapchop.