Who shoots 185 Jugs in 308? have some questions (Freebore, bbl length, etc)

[Winny94]

I'm considering a barrel chambered in 308 as I just sold my shorty 308. I'd like to run the 185 juggernauts, but have a few questions.

What Freebore is recommended?
Is it possible to load them to mag length without neutering them?
What barrel length is recommended to hit the velocity number needed to get the most out of them?

 

[bjay]

We shoot mid range f class with that bullets.the team USA ftr using this bullets and 200.20x with 170 freebore. My 30" giving 2740 with the jugs.

 

[IanHusaberg]

The jug was designed for semi-auto mags, why do you think it has a short nose? Are you designing a rifle build around the bullet? There are better bullets choices (higher BC's) out there for bolt action rifles.

 

[Winny94]

The jug was designed for semi-auto mags, why do you think it has a short nose? Are you designing a rifle build around the bullet? There are better bullets choices (higher BC's) out there for bolt action rifles.

Really? First I've ever heard that.
And no, I'm just looking at a barrel for a switch barrel setup

 

[IanHusaberg]

Really!

I was trying to be helpful.

All you have to do is use Google. Google Berger. Right under the new ABM ammo 185, it says the 185 was designed for magazine feed rifles i.e.: SR25 mags, factory mag length(AICS w/ binder plate). Maybe you could actually go to the berger bullet site and do a little reading of your own?

http://www.bergerbullets.com/new-308-winchester-ammo-featuring-berger-185gr-juggernaut-bullets/

Have you ever tried reading, doing a little research?

I am coming across like a dick here! Why? Because your asking a question here and you get an answer, than you want to act like you have the answers.

If you want this bullet for your applications, what is the end goal your trying to achieve. Maybe you could bless us with some more info? Which change barrel system? What are you shooting at? Steel, animals, paper? It might actually help? Unless you already have all the answers.

 

[shooter65]

 

[shooter65]

31" Benchmark 10 twist

 

[shooter65]

Bisley reamer

 

[shooter65]

 

[shooter65]

 

[shooter65]

300 yards

 

[shooter65]

300

 

[shooter65]

5@100

 

[shooter65]

Alpha Mags

 

[IanHusaberg]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...185-grain-open-tip-match-boat-tail-box-of-100

I'm shooting this bullet out of my M&P10 right now.

 

[shooter65]

 

[Winny94]

Really!

I was trying to be helpful.

All you have to do is use Google. Google Berger. Right under the new ABM ammo 185, it says the 185 was designed for magazine feed rifles i.e.: SR25 mags, factory mag length(AICS w/ binder plate). Maybe you could actually go to the berger bullet site and do a little reading of your own?

http://www.bergerbullets.com/new-308-winchester-ammo-featuring-berger-185gr-juggernaut-bullets/

Have you ever tried reading, doing a little research?

I am coming across like a dick here! Why? Because your asking a question here and you get an answer, than you want to act like you have the answers.

If you want this bullet for your applications, what is the end goal your trying to achieve. Maybe you could bless us with some more info? Which change barrel system? What are you shooting at? Steel, animals, paper? It might actually help? Unless you already have all the answers.

Holy hell dude, triggered much? Who pissed in your cheerios? I legitimately have never heard they were designed for mag fed semi autos, but since you're going to be an ass, maybe YOU should read the link you provided. It clearly states one type of ammo is loaded for mag fed, while the other is meant to be optimized by single loaded rifles - therefor my question asking if anyone has loaded to mag length and still utilized the advantages of the 185 is valid.

Settle down.

 

[IanHusaberg]

I can find a few more links if you'd like. It will only take a couple minutes of looking. But why bother, your the expert here asking questions!

 

[bjay]

Wroks good for ftr for me single feeding

 

[Winny94]

I can find a few more links if you'd like. It will only take a couple minutes of looking. But why bother, your the expert here asking questions!

Have a good evening

 

[jetmd]

Wow, that was a testy exchange.

Damm Ian bad day?

 

[IanHusaberg]

Maybe there is something to answering questions with photos?

 

[Pete B]

Ian, this is probably not going to help, but did you ever consider for a moment that you may be wrong?
It can happen to us ALL fairly often and generally people are not judged on the fact that they are wrong, but how they accept this fact....
For instance, I maybe wrong, that you are wrong!
PS I'm no expert, so if you could spend that couple of minutes finding information stating the 185gn Juggernaut (not the OTM) was designed for magazines that would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Pete

 

[TheGerman]

Ian needs Jesus.

With that said, 185 Juggys in a semi are sexy as hell. 43.2g Varget and its match grade accuracy out of a M110k1 with bullets that could almost pull barrier blind duty.

 

[MachoKing]

Well would you looky there, there's two different versions of the Juggernaut! One branded under Berger's tactical line, one under their target line. Ian, you're wrong. It's okay to be wrong. Maybe eat a little humble pie.

 

[IanHusaberg]

I am Wrong. Shoot me?

 

[Lowlight]

46gr of 2000MR pushes them 2700fps out of my 20” AX awesome stats.

I have a new load for my GAP10 if the weather will cooperate.

Big fan

 

[Winny94]

46gr of 2000MR pushes them 2700fps out of my 20” AX awesome stats.

I have a new load for my GAP10 if the weather will cooperate.

Big fan

Wow - 2700 out of a 20" very impressive. What coal you loading to and how far off the lands does that leave you?

 

[Hondo64d]

I'm considering a barrel chambered in 308 as I just sold my shorty 308. I'd like to run the 185 juggernauts, but have a few questions.

What Freebore is recommended?
Is it possible to load them to mag length without neutering them?
What barrel length is recommended to hit the velocity number needed to get the most out of them?

I haven’t used either Juggernaut but am having great success with the 185gr Classic Hunter. The benefit of the hybrid/Juggernaut/Classic Hunter/Extreme Hunters is they are supposed to be less critical of distance from the lands. My Criterion .308 barrel has the SAAMI spec throat which is .090”. My 185gr Classic hunter load is about .030” from the lands, OAL a hair over 2.8”. They work fine from my Magpul Pmags. Here is a 5 shot group at 100 yards.

John

 

[Lowlight]

I am not an anal retentive reloader, I am 2.830, mag length and done, my reloads are such I can use them in other rifles.

 

[sjoliat]

I did a test a few years ago comparing seating depths for the 185s. Started at .005 jammed, then .005 jump, followed by .020 jump. Shot 5 round groups at 300 yards. The jammed groups averaged 1.5" followed by 1.25" for the .050 jump. The .020 jump groups averaged .75". This was in a 30" Criterion with a 10 twist. I don't know what the freebore is for that barrel, but for me they have proven to prefer being jumped and accuracy didn't suffer when loaded to mag length (2.810"OAL).

 

[shooter65]

What brass are you using?

I am not an anal retentive reloader, I am 2.830, mag length and done, my reloads are such I can use them in other rifles.

 

[Lowlight]

Lately Prime once fired brass because i shoot Prime ammo, the brass is plentiful

 

[Winny94]

I am not an anal retentive reloader, I am 2.830, mag length and done, my reloads are such I can use them in other rifles.

What kind of accuracy are you getting?

 

[Rangemaster]

I'm considering a barrel chambered in 308 as I just sold my shorty 308. I'd like to run the 185 juggernauts, but have a few questions.

What Freebore is recommended?
Is it possible to load them to mag length without neutering them?
What barrel length is recommended to hit the velocity number needed to get the most out of them?

I just came back from the range today with my 308, i run the bergers 185 jugs. I have a heavy varmint barrel 10 in 1 twist 24” cambered in national match, so it doesnt have a long throat. I use this gun for prs and f-tr matches.

 

[Lowlight]

What kind of accuracy are you getting?

Sub 1/2 MOA

 

[Trevor]

from Berger
What is the difference between the 30 Cal 185 Grain Match Juggernaut Target and OTM Tactical? (30418 vs 30107)

Posted March 6, 2013

These are simply different naming conventions that we use to clarify that the bullets can be used for each application. The military requires that OTM (Open Tip Match) bullets be clearly defined as OTM in the product name for clarification. There are no differences between these two bullets.


YMMV
They are a good bullet they are both jam and jump tolerant, and are forgiving in accuracy. As they are heavier then typical 155-178 class bullets they excel at longer distances. huge wind bucking advantage
- Caveats
- if you are shooting PRS they are above the weight limit.
- There are lighter berger bullet that will have flatter trajectory eg (185@2700 vs 168@2800) JBM
- both varget and IMR4320 worked for me

All the best
Trevor

 

[spife7980]

These are simply different naming conventions that we use to clarify that the bullets can be used for each application. The military requires that OTM (Open Tip Match) bullets be clearly defined as OTM in the product name for clarification. There are no differences between these two bullets.

Strange that they have different numbers, only a little inconsequential difference... but still different.

- Caveats
- if you are shooting PRS they are above the weight limit.

And thats only for the tactical divisions; open prs doesnt put a weight limit, only a velocity, correct?

 

[Trevor]

Yes only tactical divisions... but going into open class you will be putting yourself at a disadvantage compared to all those sleek soft shooting 6mm 6.5s.
30cal recoil will show itself against the 6-6.5 calibers

the BC's are continuity being updated, Bryan stays on top of that pretty well; the numbers are the same if not recorded on the website as such.

All the best
Trevor

 

[WATERWALKER]

from Berger
What is the difference between the 30 Cal 185 Grain Match Juggernaut Target and OTM Tactical? (30418 vs 30107)

Posted March 6, 2013

These are simply different naming conventions that we use to clarify that the bullets can be used for each application. The military requires that OTM (Open Tip Match) bullets be clearly defined as OTM in the product name for clarification. There are no differences between these two bullets.


YMMV
They are a good bullet they are both jam and jump tolerant, and are forgiving in accuracy. As they are heavier then typical 155-178 class bullets they excel at longer distances. huge wind bucking advantage
- Caveats
- if you are shooting PRS they are above the weight limit.
- There are lighter berger bullet that will have flatter trajectory eg (185@2700 vs 168@2800) JBM
- both varget and IMR4320 worked for me

All the best
Trevor

How are the 168s doing at extended ranges, say 800+?

 

[Trevor]

Hi WaterWalker

For me i cap the 168's at 800 you can see below they are flatter out to 1,000 but wind plays a larger role in hit probabilities as distances increases and the 185 have less wind drift allowing greater margin of error in missed wind calls,the 168 are not as forgiving. if you are shooting KD pick the one that shoots best in your gun. PRS style match with UKD where the match is predominately inside 800yrds 168 or sanctioned PRS matches.
185's for matches heavy with yardages beyond 800.

Range Drop Drop Wind Wind
yds in MOA in MOA
800- 180.9- 21.6 50.4 6.0 168 berger
900 249.2 26.4 66.6 7.1
1000 334.1 31.9 85.9 8.2


800 189.5 22.6 48.4 5.8 185 berger
900 259.6 27.5 63.7 6.8
1000 346.1 33.1 81.9 7.8

All the best
Trevor

 

[Qazwsx]

Would 185s be a good choice for shooting out to 1000m with an 18" OBR?

 

[WATERWALKER]

Trevor,

Thank you for the timely response. I was curious as to how the 168s perform from 800 - 1000. I figured the wind would be less forgiving at those ranges.

Thanks for the info!

 

[bjay]

Would 185s be a good choice for shooting out to 100m with an 18" OBR?

From 308? If you barrel can spin them why not..a 300 blackout shoots 220gr to 100meter with 16" barrel with great results

 

[Qazwsx]

From 308? If you barrel can spin them why not..a 300 blackout shoots 220gr to 100meter with 16" barrel with great results

Meant to say 1K

 

[bjay]

Meant to say 1K

Well its a good way to test your skills reading winds or practice

 

[FollowThrough10]

Sub 1/2 MOA

Frank,

What twist rate is that 20" AX ?

 

[jsthntn247]

I just came back from the range today with my 308, i run the bergers 185 jugs. I have a heavy varmint barrel 10 in 1 twist 24” cambered in national match, so it doesnt have a long throat. I use this gun for prs and f-tr matches.

View attachment 6877971View attachment 6877972

Your bipod is on backwards

 

[Winny94]

Your bipod is on backwards

nope, thats on correctly

 

[Jrb572]

Damn my 22” AXMC barrel is super slow compared to Franks. Im only getting 2664 FPS with 47.8 of 2000 mr. Yes it has been tested out to 1300 yards and is spot on with my LabRadar. I would say it’s 1/2 moa or better also.