Who'd win?

[Elitespotter]

I know people love to hear/see the skilled underdog beat the rich weekend shooter with all the latest gear.

But I wonder how this actually translates into the real world.

I think it would make a great documentary if any of you gentlemen are in that line of work.

Basically. Im talking.

Take someone who has been shooting passionately for say the past 10 years and maybe won a few competitions give him just an average rifle/scope setup (e.g. a factory remmy 700 and burris).

Then take someone who hasnt shot before. Get him some 1-to-1 lessons over a 6 month period. Hes only allowed to shoot at weekends. Give him a custom rifle, top of the line S&B, Atlas bipod, anti-cant device, Zeiss range finder, ballistics calculator etc etc...

Then at the end of the 6 months pit them together see how it goes.



My bets are it would be a very tight one especially if its a nice day with no wind.

 

[milo 2.0]

Do you have a fever of over 107 degrees, or get dropped on your head as baby?

 

[TRAAV]

I think gear helps but it doesn't trump skill. I know you said train for 6 months but you cant learn something in 6 months that someone has learned in 10 years.

 

[bullseye13]

Unless your Mark Wahlberg in the movie shooter, then its a possibility...

 

[raptor99]

I have been shooting for 40+years and find it intresting that now that LR shooting is popular that guys jump into it and buy the best scope and rifles plus $800 gagets to tell them what to dial and all the info that they can possibly get with the push of a button. Yet they can't understand why they don't hit the steel at long range all the time.

The reason is because out here nothing stays constant. The wind never blows steady its always up and down and will change from a full value to a half value to none at all in a heart beat. No matter how good your gagets are nothing beats experince. (Except the damn wind change you don't catch!!)

 

[Guest]

Who'd win?

The guy that has the best Field-Craft and waits until you are within his Comfort Zone. Long shots get the headlines, but if you can't get there or back, the ability to shoot means nothing.

 

[SniperCJ]

I have been shooting for 40+years and find it intresting that now that LR shooting is popular that guys jump into it and buy the best scope and rifles plus $800 gagets to tell them what to dial and all the info that they can possibly get with the push of a button. Yet they can't understand why they don't hit the steel at long range all the time.

The reason is because out here nothing stays constant. The wind never blows steady its always up and down and will change from a full value to a half value to none at all in a heart beat. No matter how good your gagets are nothing beats experince. (Except the damn wind change you don't catch!!)

That right there ^^

 

[Elitespotter]

I guess in the US you guys dont have zero to hero programmes.
We have them over here where for example, I applied for but wasnt successful, but my best buddy got it, for ice hockey. For 8 months my buddy trained with the national team. He spent every minute of his weekends in the ice-rink where he was getting one-to-one lessons from some big names. And then trained side by side with the national team during the week after work. He went from a nervous skater to an amazing hockey player in those 8 months. Granted he never made it onto the national team, but he can give the other boys on the local teams who grew up playing hockey a serious run for their money.

With the shooting, I cant see why you couldnt take the average joe. Give him the best equipment money can buy, unlimited ammo, team him up with Todd Hodnett for a couple of hours every weekend. Just say 1 hour on Friday, 2 hours on Saturday and 2 hours on Sunday. That works out at over 100 hours of private training at the end of the 6 months. And then whatever range time he does on his own at the weekends.

Ya know, I think its very possible.

 

[milo 2.0]

Elite,
As I stated in a pm, I somewhat think like you. Here's a thread I started awhile ago, and is in tune with Mtncreek's theme.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/elr-beyond-1000-yards/149204-6-yr-old-shoots-1350-yards.html

I haven't added to it lately, winter really sucked here, but we've had 3 successful outings this spring, and the kid just keeps getting better.
The second to the last one had the little guy putting on a seminar after a friend and I had our asses handed to us by the wind, the wind subsided and the kid went to town.
Planning an after school shoot tomorrow, going to get him to start dialing the scope himself, with a new 6mm BR I had built for him, FUN!!

 

[vwhugger]

Also consider some people can shoot and some can't and never will be any good. Yesterday evening I watched a 19 yo girl that's only experience with firearms was shooting a .22 a couple times make a mid 30's guy that shoots about once a week look like a fool (and I enjoyed every minute of it; just wished my creedmoor had a little more recoil to 'shake things up' a little more).

Reminds me of the young gal that has never shot a round of trap before and on the first outing, ends up smoking them only to say "what's so hard about that?"

 

[Unknown]

A few years back I attended a precision rifle match where many competitors apparently had unlimited budgets. Straight pull bolt with Schmidt and bender scopes, AI/AW rifles with Premier scopes and on, and on. Match was small targets out to about 600 yards. Match was won by a Portland PD female officer shooting a box stock Rem 700 PSS with a Leupold 3-9x40 that didn't even have paralax adjustment. She smoked me by using good old fashioned talent and lotsa practice.


she blew the arms race worries outa the water, and it was truly a joy to watch her shoot. It can be done.

It is the artist, not the instrument that makes beautiful music.

 

[EddieNFL]

The best driver in the world won't win a race with a mediocre car and crew. A mediocre driver won't win a race with a world-class car and crew. It's a package deal.

 

[TheTick]

The new guy would crack under the pressure. He'd be great shooting in the "Ballroom", but when the stress of competition hit, he'd fall apart.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

I guess in the US you guys dont have zero to hero programmes.
We have them over here where for example, I applied for but wasnt successful, but my best buddy got it, for ice hockey. For 8 months my buddy trained with the national team. He spent every minute of his weekends in the ice-rink where he was getting one-to-one lessons from some big names. And then trained side by side with the national team during the week after work. He went from a nervous skater to an amazing hockey player in those 8 months. Granted he never made it onto the national team, but he can give the other boys on the local teams who grew up playing hockey a serious run for their money.

With the shooting, I cant see why you couldnt take the average joe. Give him the best equipment money can buy, unlimited ammo, team him up with Todd Hodnett for a couple of hours every weekend. Just say 1 hour on Friday, 2 hours on Saturday and 2 hours on Sunday. That works out at over 100 hours of private training at the end of the 6 months. And then whatever range time he does on his own at the weekends.

Ya know, I think its very possible.

Since you stated that he would be trained every weekend that does make a difference. The main reason would be that person being trained would gain a lot of experience in a short time and at a fast pace. If someone took a weekend course and then trained by themselves would be different out come. Having someone with experience helping you along the way every weekend could take a good shooter and make them a great shooter if they put in the effort. If they were train for competition shooting, such as positional shooting, timed shooting and train on different structures it would be possible in my opinion.

 

[X-fan]

Same old same old.
New fancy rifle,scope, LRF and fancy ballistic computer and a fresh copy of Magpuls latest long range video....Of course they miss.

FIRST thing they do when they miss?
Look at the ballistic program of course!...What else could be wrong??!!

No kid is going to shoot with me.
The 6 year old thread is nice, but just like with my son Dad sets up the scope.
There is a quantum difference between putting a crosshair on target and driving a rifle at long range.

Fact
10,000 hours of experience defines a subject matter expert.
You can't buy experience.
Some people are just stupid and will never attain that level.

 

[218bee]

Once I played thick woods paintball with about 9 other friends who were all hardcore Bowhunters and had great field/woods craft. The opposing team was from a Military Academy and we were nervous. Man we SMOKED those guys....wasnt even close...Granted it wasnt life or death, but the difference was glaring...I agree its all in the field craft...