Suppressors Why 9mm?

[christian77]

Re: Why 9mm?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joe90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I was wondering why the military has been using 9mm sidearms? Is there something that the 9mm has over other bigger calibers?

Thanks

Joe</div></div>
1. I suspect it's cheaper
2. It is a standardized NATO caliber
3. Capacity
4. Most GI Joes get nominal training with sidearms...so you combat that with #3...give 'em more bullets.
5. Despite the naysayers...9mm is plenty fine for killing people.

On a side note...

You can shoot almost twice as much 9mm vs. .45 for the money.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matt33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't forget that 9mm is also for Navy SEALS and we all know what a bunch of pansies they are...</div></div>
You're a tool...Go watch some more movies.

 

[slapshot.308]

Re: Why 9mm?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joe90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I was wondering why the military has been using 9mm sidearms? Is there something that the 9mm has over other bigger calibers?

Thanks

Joe</div></div>
1. I suspect it's cheaper
2. It is a standardized NATO caliber
3. Capacity
4. Most GI Joes get nominal training with sidearms...so you combat that with #3...give 'em more bullets.
5. Despite the naysayers...9mm is plenty fine for killing people.

On a side note...

You can shoot almost twice as much 9mm vs. .45 for the money.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matt33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't forget that 9mm is also for Navy SEALS and we all know what a bunch of pansies they are...</div></div>
You're a tool...Go watch some more movies.

</div></div>

Now doorkicker,

Everybody knows that no one in history has ever died from the 9mm while the .45 is as deadly as... Chuck Norris.

Honestly, the 9mm was the natural evolution in ammunition commonality (not that we're ANYWHERE near that) in NATO ammuniton and arms. Most dumps that we found ourselves in since WWII had stockpiles of 9mm, very few of our allies used the .45 mainstream, it was cheaper to shoot and had a reputation of softer recoiling (I don't think so as I find the .45 "better" as does my wife and several other shooters), and the M1911A1's in stock were no longer sustainable so Uncle Sammy was going to up it to a new pistol anyway so why be different.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Why 9mm?

How a caliber slug behaves has a bit of merit; the more merit is how you behave when you're shooting it whatever caliber it might be. The one that's the best is the one you have, or the one you shoot best.

For most of these guys sitting around thinking how cool it would be to smoke some dude a TAZER would probably work better.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Why 9mm?

But can't the 9 mm curve around corners? Try that with your ancient .45s.

 

[AHorn]

Re: Why 9mm?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But can't the 9 mm curve around corners? Try that with your ancient .45s. </div></div>'

Mine does! But that being said you have to hold the pistola gangsta style to get it
to do that. If not the bullet will just rise in to the wild blue yonder. LOL!

 

[rfblake]

Re: Why 9mm?

Whatever you buy shoot it and shoot it a lot. 9mm is cheaper to shoot, you can still get 100 rounds from wally word for 20 bones. I have three 45acp pistols but find myself carrying a G19 because of the weight and the local heat. I shoot a 1911 better and my 1050 is set up to reload 45ACP, but I drive a g19 pretty good as well and I can conceal a g19 easily under a tee shirt. I guess I'm getting lazy so I carry a G19 or (rarely) a J frame. But I least I carry something to protect my family. Practice and carry it. YMMV

 

[11b30b4]

Re: Why 9mm?

I think everyone has said it already but its a NATO thing. The same reason we use 308 in the m-24 or 40x instead of say lupa or 300 winmag. but I have noticed a change in policy regarding NATO compliance. For instance the use of ballistic tip or hallow points in .223 for Super Friends and the like. In the next few years the Army will be reevaluating the M9 and will pick a different pistol to go with. I have heard rumors of returning to the 45, but More than likely, it will not be the 1911 model.

 

[jlficken]

Re: Why 9mm?

I have 9mm, .40S&W, and .45 AUTO. If I had to do it again I would have just got 9mm first not last like I did and spent the remainder of my money on more reloading components since I can afford to shoot ALOT more with 9mm that either of the other two even with reloading. My current costs with standard FMJ rounds are as follows(per 1000 rounds):

9mm - $106.38
.40 - $139.17
.45 - $189.57

That is using the cheapest FMJ bullets I can find with my C&R discount and powder and primers at 2 year ago pricing. That means it is about 78% cheaper to shoot 9mm vs .45 and about 31% cheaper than .40 S&W.

I love shooting and practicing so I have pretty much shelved my .40 S&W and .45 AUTO and will just keep the thousands of component bullets, brass, primers, and powder I have for them just in case things get even crazier and I have to make them last for 20 years. Until then I will stock up on 9mm stuff and shoot more while getting better hopefully for about half the cost of other calibers.


I figure it is better to hit my target where I am with a "puny" round than to miss with the big guys because I couldn't afford to practice.

 

[Slickrick0999]

Re: Why 9mm?

Cause ya going to shoot 'em twice anyway!

 

[shark0311]

Re: Why 9mm?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matt33</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: molonlabe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't forget that 9mm is also for Navy SEALS and we all know what a bunch of pansies they are... </div></div>

Because 9mm's all they carry, right?

Wrong. 9mm is not "for" SEALs, 9mm is for lightweight sub-machine guns, which many SOF elements carry on DA missions, along with an array of other weapons to make up for 9mm's shortcomings. </div></div>
The standard sidearm of the US Navy SEALS is the Sig P226 in 9mm. If it was really for pansies, all SEALS would carry the HK Mk23, yet most carry the P226. I've already read every nonsensical gun shop arguement against the 9mm I've ever heard within this short thread. I carry a 9mm on a daily basis and feel as well armed as when I carry my Glock 20. That's just my $.02. </div></div>

Mall Ninja?

Ok all kidding aside. It doesn't matter which caliber you use. Combat is 95% mental and 5% physical. The person who understands violence of action, shot placement, movement under fire, and has the tenacity to leave the fight alive is going to use any tool at their disposal. If carrying a .45 gives you a mental edge then carry it. Make every round count for something i.e. to kill, suppress, or intimidate as necessary. Don't worry about the terminal ballistics of that tiny little projectile, but concern yourself with the desired effect it will have on your target. Focus on winning the fight regardless of the tools at your disposal. If you like carrying a weapon that weighs less and has more rounds then go for it. Winning the fight isn't about some little projectile stopping someone with one shot (that's great in the movies), it's about the person employing their assets to win at any cost.

On another note if all your concerned with is annihilating the human body carry a Scottish claymore. It's really just as practical as this thread and I challenge anyone to find a handgun that can cut a head clean off (Dirty Harry aside).

 

[Turk]

Re: Why 9mm?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Realy??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_P226

http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=7&productid=191

http://www.navyseals.com/m11 </div></div>

So which do the SEALs carry? The P228 (now discontinued) or the P226 Navy?

Methinks the P226 Navy is nothing but marketing hype. I have never seen even a shred of evidence that our military has even one P226 Navy in service. </div></div>
Here is a little shred! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTVBYlHsIRY

 

[300WSM]

Re: Why 9mm?

why 9mm? because it's good enough to do the job and you get more rds with light recoil. Just like the 223. Sure 308 is much better ballistically than 223 but 223 will do the job.

 

[shark0311]

Re: Why 9mm?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why 9mm? because it's good enough to do the job and you get more rds with light recoil. Just like the 223. Sure 308 is much better ballistically than 223 but 223 will do the job.</div></div>

.223 does a terrible job. It's inception was to combat Russian body armor during the cold war. Rifle rounds are a whole other ball of wax.

Theoretically it has a better hydrostatic profile than .308 but from practical experience the M118 LR provides the desired effect on target that I would expect and have not seen from AA53. In other words .223 will kill people, allows for lots of rounds less weight, is good for fighting but .308 does a much better job incapacitating a threat.

 

[300WSM]

Re: Why 9mm?

terrible job? why?

 

[shark0311]

Re: Why 9mm?

Sorry about that I decided to edit my post instead of adding another

 

[300WSM]

Re: Why 9mm?

seems like the 223 would be better choice for up close and personal.

 

[shark0311]

Re: Why 9mm?

.223 does a great job killing prairie dogs but would you want to use it on white tail deer, or better yet to hunt a 200lb hog or would you rather use a .308?

 

[300WSM]

Re: Why 9mm?

thought we were talking about 2 legged creatures. Give me some corbon 62gr dpx I'd hunt either of them with 5.56/223.

 

[shark0311]

Re: Why 9mm?

The average height of a male is 5'6'' at 145 pounds. They can employ tools that can make them deadly. Flesh is flesh be it from man or beast. If your being charged by a wild hog do you want to shoot it with a .223 or a .308? I know what 77gr bullet does to a man and I know what 175gr bullet does. Most people don't but a lot of people do hunt animals that's why I'm making the comparison. If you could choose would you rather take a .223 out on a boar hunt over a .308 if you would please tell me why?

 

[300WSM]

Re: Why 9mm?

Charging boar - if I had a semi auto and I had dpx ammo I'd feel fine with the 223. If I had a bolt gun and non dpx ammo I'd feel better off with the 308 and hope that I got a CNS hit on the boar because if I didn't it wouldn't leave me much time to cycle the gun for another shot.

btw the boar isn't shooting at you.

 

[shark0311]

Re: Why 9mm?

I should clarify a bit. I'm not advocating the .308 for a standard infantry weapon. I do believe that a middle ground needs to be implemented i.e. the 6.8 sbc. The after action reports from A-stan a few years ago demonstrated the superiority of the round over AA53. Unfortunately a change is not likely to happen. There is a huge margin of difference in the performance of .308 and .223 over the minor differences between .45 and 9mm.

 

[shark0311]

Re: Why 9mm?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Charging boar - if I had a semi auto and I had dpx ammo I'd feel fine with the 223. If I had a bolt gun and non dpx ammo I'd feel better off with the 308 and hope that I got a CNS hit on the boar because if I didn't it wouldn't leave me much time to cycle the gun for another shot.

btw the boar isn't shooting at you.

</div></div>

I never said anything about a bolt gun

AR-15 vs SCAR heavy would be a bit more appropriate.

 

[300WSM]

Re: Why 9mm?

semi auto sure in 308 I'd take that over 223.

 

[desertHK]

Re: Why 9mm?

There is no doubt that the terminal ballistics of both the 45 ACP and the 308 are far more superior than the lowly 9 mm and the 223. But I also know that there are lots and lots of people who aren't breathing because of the 9 mm and the 223. Most European country and NATO use 9 mm. It is just as deadly as the 45 ACP.

Bottom line IMHO, be comfortable with what you carry, assuming that you are given the option to pick your side arm, and be proficient with it. In my lowly humble opinion, 2 in the heart and one in the head will solve most problem. BTW, I am not talking about wild boar, or some funky dangerous game shit. Just the two legged creatures.

 

[300WSM]

Re: Why 9mm?

terminal ballistics of 9 40 357sig 45 are all close and none are superior to one another. Each are better than another in some way.

 

[marduk185]

Re: Why 9mm?

revolvers are better