So I've recently gotten bit by the 1911 bug and bought a Springfield Armory 1911 Mil-Spec. The 1911 is definitely not my first hand gun and for a little back ground, I own a Ruger P-89, a Barretta 92, and an XD-40 Tactical. Of all of those guns, the 1911 was the most expensive by more than $100. Whats really sad about that is I bought Springfield Armory's second cheapest 1911. That brought up a question I wanted to pose to all of those 1911 nuts out there. Why are they so expensive? I'm relatively familiar with market material costs and there is no where close to $1000 dollars of materials in them. What are you really paying for when you buy a 1911? Why is a 100 year old design twice the cost of others?
Sidearms & Scatterguns Why are 1911's so expensive???
- Thread starter tomcatfan
- Start date
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
how much does it cost to fill a mold? how much does it cost to machine a frame?
how much does it cost to fill a mold? how much does it cost to machine a frame?
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
Without getting into details, the 3 other handguns you mention have frames which are either investment cast, or molded polymer. These manufacturing techniques require very little, if any machining after casting or molding.
The Springfield 1911 starts out with a steel forging, which then needs nearly every surface machined.
Component parts in "modern" handguns are also many times made of stampings or investment castings. Again, very little secondary operations required and these manufacturing techniques lend themselves to high volume production.
The 1911 was designed at a time when high strength polymer technology was unheard of and casting technology was somewhat less refined than what it is today.
Back then you took a hunk of raw steel or a forging and machined away anything that didn't look like a handgun. It made for a very strong structure, but was much more time consuming and costly to produce.
Without getting into details, the 3 other handguns you mention have frames which are either investment cast, or molded polymer. These manufacturing techniques require very little, if any machining after casting or molding.
The Springfield 1911 starts out with a steel forging, which then needs nearly every surface machined.
Component parts in "modern" handguns are also many times made of stampings or investment castings. Again, very little secondary operations required and these manufacturing techniques lend themselves to high volume production.
The 1911 was designed at a time when high strength polymer technology was unheard of and casting technology was somewhat less refined than what it is today.
Back then you took a hunk of raw steel or a forging and machined away anything that didn't look like a handgun. It made for a very strong structure, but was much more time consuming and costly to produce.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buggsb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Without getting into details, the 3 other handguns you mention have frames which are either investment cast, or molded polymer. These manufacturing techniques require very little, if any machining after casting or molding.
The Springfield 1911 starts out with a steel forging, which then needs nearly every surface machined.
Component parts in "modern" handguns are also many times made of stampings or investment castings. Again, very little secondary operations required and these manufacturing techniques lend themselves to high volume production.
The 1911 was designed at a time when high strength polymer technology was unheard of and casting technology was somewhat less refined than what it is today.
Back then you took a hunk of raw steel or a forging and machined away anything that didn't look like a handgun. It made for a very strong structure, but was much more time consuming and costly to produce.
</div></div>
Nicely put.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buggsb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Without getting into details, the 3 other handguns you mention have frames which are either investment cast, or molded polymer. These manufacturing techniques require very little, if any machining after casting or molding.
The Springfield 1911 starts out with a steel forging, which then needs nearly every surface machined.
Component parts in "modern" handguns are also many times made of stampings or investment castings. Again, very little secondary operations required and these manufacturing techniques lend themselves to high volume production.
The 1911 was designed at a time when high strength polymer technology was unheard of and casting technology was somewhat less refined than what it is today.
Back then you took a hunk of raw steel or a forging and machined away anything that didn't look like a handgun. It made for a very strong structure, but was much more time consuming and costly to produce.
</div></div>
Nicely put.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
I think you need to look a little further and consider the 1911 is the small block chevy of pistols. You can get a base model, GI replica, plain ol' iron combat sights brand new for less than 400 bux. I just saw a Rock Island Armory 1911 at my local gun shop the other day for 395 new. Now add the options like upgraded sights, 8rnds mags, match bushing, trigger, safety/beavertail upgrades, magwell funnel, match barrel, various srings, ect. and you got a pistol that costs what you are looking at. Some folks like to do the work themselves, some would rather buy all the bell and whistles already on it from the maker, with a warranty. Best thing about the 1911 is it's the most copied pistol in the world. Springfield, S&W, RIA, Sig, Les Baer, STI, Kimber and I think even Ruger is going to be getting into it. You could even buy all the components from Caspian, send it off to a smith and have a full on custom job done. My frind went that route and his is complete with sdjustable sights, and integral picatinny rail for about $1400.
Look a little deeper and you will find what you are looking for for what you wanna pay.
I think you need to look a little further and consider the 1911 is the small block chevy of pistols. You can get a base model, GI replica, plain ol' iron combat sights brand new for less than 400 bux. I just saw a Rock Island Armory 1911 at my local gun shop the other day for 395 new. Now add the options like upgraded sights, 8rnds mags, match bushing, trigger, safety/beavertail upgrades, magwell funnel, match barrel, various srings, ect. and you got a pistol that costs what you are looking at. Some folks like to do the work themselves, some would rather buy all the bell and whistles already on it from the maker, with a warranty. Best thing about the 1911 is it's the most copied pistol in the world. Springfield, S&W, RIA, Sig, Les Baer, STI, Kimber and I think even Ruger is going to be getting into it. You could even buy all the components from Caspian, send it off to a smith and have a full on custom job done. My frind went that route and his is complete with sdjustable sights, and integral picatinny rail for about $1400.
Look a little deeper and you will find what you are looking for for what you wanna pay.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
So I guess my next question is, does the 1911 frame need to be machined? I understand 100 years ago manufacturing technologies were up and coming, but with modern technologies would cast frames really degrade the capability of the weapon platform? I would have to take a look at some FEA's of the design, but I can't imagine that the frame is loaded that much during firing to require a frame machined from a solid block or forging.
So I guess my next question is, does the 1911 frame need to be machined? I understand 100 years ago manufacturing technologies were up and coming, but with modern technologies would cast frames really degrade the capability of the weapon platform? I would have to take a look at some FEA's of the design, but I can't imagine that the frame is loaded that much during firing to require a frame machined from a solid block or forging.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage 10fp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I guess my next question is, does the 1911 frame need to be machined?... </div></div>
Simply put, yes...but, that is oversimplifying your question (by looking simply at the frame and not the whole machine). You can do anything if you want to change the design, but then it won't be a 1911 anymore, will it?
There ARE a number of newer technologies being used in the huge variety of 1911 platforms out there. There are many quality 1911's out there using quality cast frames. Can they reduce the amount of machining required?...sure, but not eliminate it.
If you look around there are a number of "improvements" to enhance the manufacturability of 1911's...cast plastic mainspring housings, cast-in plunger tubes, molded plastic frames (STI/SVI), cast components, MIM components, etc., etc.
Most folks however prefer to stick with machined, steel components for the perceived improvement in strength, toughness, durability or reliability.
As desertrat stated, you can find plenty of 1911's with cost cutting improvements and you can find them cheaper than the other pistols you mentioned...no sweat, there are plenty of low cost 1911's out there.
If, however, you want one with enhancements or improved features,such as magwells, "match" grade components, adjustable sights, etc., etc you can get that too. Just expect to pay accordingly.
That's the beauty of the 1911, you can get a bare bones "cost improved" model for a few hundred bucks...OR, you can get top of the line, customized to your specific needs for 10 times that amount or more. It's up to you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage 10fp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I guess my next question is, does the 1911 frame need to be machined?... </div></div>
Simply put, yes...but, that is oversimplifying your question (by looking simply at the frame and not the whole machine). You can do anything if you want to change the design, but then it won't be a 1911 anymore, will it?
There ARE a number of newer technologies being used in the huge variety of 1911 platforms out there. There are many quality 1911's out there using quality cast frames. Can they reduce the amount of machining required?...sure, but not eliminate it.
If you look around there are a number of "improvements" to enhance the manufacturability of 1911's...cast plastic mainspring housings, cast-in plunger tubes, molded plastic frames (STI/SVI), cast components, MIM components, etc., etc.
Most folks however prefer to stick with machined, steel components for the perceived improvement in strength, toughness, durability or reliability.
As desertrat stated, you can find plenty of 1911's with cost cutting improvements and you can find them cheaper than the other pistols you mentioned...no sweat, there are plenty of low cost 1911's out there.
If, however, you want one with enhancements or improved features,such as magwells, "match" grade components, adjustable sights, etc., etc you can get that too. Just expect to pay accordingly.
That's the beauty of the 1911, you can get a bare bones "cost improved" model for a few hundred bucks...OR, you can get top of the line, customized to your specific needs for 10 times that amount or more. It's up to you.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
Savage, an honest answer is that a price is set that people will pay. My second 1911 was a Springfield MilSpec (first was home made). It was under $500, at the time the Beretta 92 was over $600.
On the other hand, most of the fancy high priced crap attached to a 1911 was added by the same "tactical" shooters who now claim the 1911 is old, outdated, and inferior to a new 9 mm.
Savage, an honest answer is that a price is set that people will pay. My second 1911 was a Springfield MilSpec (first was home made). It was under $500, at the time the Beretta 92 was over $600.
On the other hand, most of the fancy high priced crap attached to a 1911 was added by the same "tactical" shooters who now claim the 1911 is old, outdated, and inferior to a new 9 mm.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
The cheapest (and by proxy the most expensive way) into a 1911 is to buy a base model and futz with it until you have what you like. I started in the early 80's to prove a point that I could make a Series 80 Colt run like a Series 70 because all the guys in the shop said it couldn't be done. I bought a Colt Officers Model on my 21st birthday and 30 days later took a hacksaw to it
In the end I succeeded. It took me about 2 years with that technology to find the parts that made things feel and run the way I wanted it to. There were NO parts for the officers model. I made my first main spring housing from a Pachmayer full size and ended up with one of the first S&A mag well /mainspring housings.
In the end if you consider the raw cost of parts and my time at minimum wage my carry gun is worth more than the truck I drive. What cannot be quantified is the amount of knowledge I gained in building it myself.
I haven't built a 1911 in over 10 years (built a cubic crap ton before then) but I know some stuff that would make a "pistol assembler" stand up and take notice.
Ever seen a 1911 feed 7 empty cases from the magazine?
If you are bitten by the bug buy a base model that functions, read Jerry Kenhausen's (sp) 2 books "A 1911 Shop Manual" take small bites and enjoy the learning process. You might find something special and you will not regret the journey.
Cheers,
Doc
The cheapest (and by proxy the most expensive way) into a 1911 is to buy a base model and futz with it until you have what you like. I started in the early 80's to prove a point that I could make a Series 80 Colt run like a Series 70 because all the guys in the shop said it couldn't be done. I bought a Colt Officers Model on my 21st birthday and 30 days later took a hacksaw to it
In the end I succeeded. It took me about 2 years with that technology to find the parts that made things feel and run the way I wanted it to. There were NO parts for the officers model. I made my first main spring housing from a Pachmayer full size and ended up with one of the first S&A mag well /mainspring housings.
In the end if you consider the raw cost of parts and my time at minimum wage my carry gun is worth more than the truck I drive. What cannot be quantified is the amount of knowledge I gained in building it myself.
I haven't built a 1911 in over 10 years (built a cubic crap ton before then) but I know some stuff that would make a "pistol assembler" stand up and take notice.
Ever seen a 1911 feed 7 empty cases from the magazine?
If you are bitten by the bug buy a base model that functions, read Jerry Kenhausen's (sp) 2 books "A 1911 Shop Manual" take small bites and enjoy the learning process. You might find something special and you will not regret the journey.
Cheers,
Doc
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<span style="font-weight: bold">Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???</span>
Well, apart from the up-front retail rip-off cost, don't forget that it takes extra $$$ to get them running reliably once they're out of the box.
Funny how I didn't have that problem with my 10mm Glock 20 ...
... or my lightly-used L.E. S&W 4566 ...
Just sayin' ...
<span style="font-weight: bold">Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???</span>
Well, apart from the up-front retail rip-off cost, don't forget that it takes extra $$$ to get them running reliably once they're out of the box.
Funny how I didn't have that problem with my 10mm Glock 20 ...
... or my lightly-used L.E. S&W 4566 ...
Just sayin' ...
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
steppenwolf, I have to agree and must admit that my most expensive gun (1911) is on the way back to the manufacturer for failure to feed problems. I must admit, I have NEVER had a failure of any sort with any of my other guns. Everyone does say that Springfield Armory's customer service is great and I must agree. But I want a gun that works right from the factory.
steppenwolf, I have to agree and must admit that my most expensive gun (1911) is on the way back to the manufacturer for failure to feed problems. I must admit, I have NEVER had a failure of any sort with any of my other guns. Everyone does say that Springfield Armory's customer service is great and I must agree. But I want a gun that works right from the factory.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steppenwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny how I didn't have that problem with my 10mm Glock 20 ...
Just sayin' ...
</div></div>
I have a Kimber Custom II, older model and the girlfriend has a Custom II in stainless - never a lick of trouble and we've run some pretty funky ammo through them from ball, hollowpoint, wadcutters (Usually ugly in a 1911) - never a problem...
But I am thinking a 10mm would be cool, my dad sold one a few years ago and wish I had bought it...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steppenwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny how I didn't have that problem with my 10mm Glock 20 ...
Just sayin' ...
</div></div>
I have a Kimber Custom II, older model and the girlfriend has a Custom II in stainless - never a lick of trouble and we've run some pretty funky ammo through them from ball, hollowpoint, wadcutters (Usually ugly in a 1911) - never a problem...
But I am thinking a 10mm would be cool, my dad sold one a few years ago and wish I had bought it...
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Ever seen a 1911 feed 7 empty cases from the magazine?
Cheers,
Doc</div></div>
I have a couple of factory 1911s that do that. One is a Kimber(1st run) and Colt Combat/Target. The Colt has been nothing but a pleasure and shoots way above me, as most do.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Ever seen a 1911 feed 7 empty cases from the magazine?
Cheers,
Doc</div></div>
I have a couple of factory 1911s that do that. One is a Kimber(1st run) and Colt Combat/Target. The Colt has been nothing but a pleasure and shoots way above me, as most do.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Supply and demand principle. </div></div>
That's informative. Thanks for that wonderful insight.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Supply and demand principle. </div></div>
That's informative. Thanks for that wonderful insight.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Supply and demand principle. </div></div>
That's informative. Thanks for that wonderful insight. </div></div>
Ha, ha, ha...my thought exactly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Supply and demand principle. </div></div>
That's informative. Thanks for that wonderful insight. </div></div>
Ha, ha, ha...my thought exactly.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Supply and demand principle. </div></div>
That's informative. Thanks for that wonderful insight. </div></div>
He's right. The <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">only</span></span> reason 1911s cost so much is because somebody is willing to pay it. If the market won't support your asking price, you have two choices: lower it or find another line of work.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Supply and demand principle. </div></div>
That's informative. Thanks for that wonderful insight. </div></div>
He's right. The <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">only</span></span> reason 1911s cost so much is because somebody is willing to pay it. If the market won't support your asking price, you have two choices: lower it or find another line of work.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
so the question is why are those willing to pay it? hmmmm there might be a reason one would be willin to pay 1,400 for a 1911 and not for a glock
so the question is why are those willing to pay it? hmmmm there might be a reason one would be willin to pay 1,400 for a 1911 and not for a glock
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fred_C_Dobbs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Supply and demand principle. </div></div>
That's informative. Thanks for that wonderful insight. </div></div>
He's right. The <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">only</span></span> reason 1911s cost so much is because somebody is willing to pay it. If the market won't support your asking price, you have two choices: lower it or find another line of work. </div></div>
I teach college economics, so I highly suggest that you resist the effort to try to school me on principles level issues.
It's not that he's wrong. It's that the components of supply and demand (production cost, materials, labor, willingness/ability to pay) that are meaningful.
When someone asks why something is priced in a particular manner, stating, "because that's where supply and demand intersect" isn't a very meaningful observation. That's true by definition. The first word in this thread's title is "why," which isn't answered by that statement at all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so the question is why are those willing to pay it? hmmmm there might be a reason one would be willin to pay 1,400 for a 1911 and not for a glock </div></div>
I think if you read this thread carefully, I suspect you'll find that it's supply-side concerns that are driving the price more than demand-side.
The 1911 is a hundred year old design. It's a relic of days when labor was cheap and materials, not so much.
It's just like asking why a brand new M1 Garand or M14 would be expensive today. The answer depends a LOT on the process that it takes to make these relics.
This is not to say that they're not excellent firearms. They certainly are. But inevitably, a 100 year old design has not fully exploited the differences in technology that allow newer firearms designs to be supplied at lower cost.
Even with slave wages and Chinese-level metallurgy, one can only produce a 1911 so cheap. Whatever number that is, I suspect that for a Glock or similar modern design, it's far lower.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fred_C_Dobbs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Supply and demand principle. </div></div>
That's informative. Thanks for that wonderful insight. </div></div>
He's right. The <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">only</span></span> reason 1911s cost so much is because somebody is willing to pay it. If the market won't support your asking price, you have two choices: lower it or find another line of work. </div></div>
I teach college economics, so I highly suggest that you resist the effort to try to school me on principles level issues.
It's not that he's wrong. It's that the components of supply and demand (production cost, materials, labor, willingness/ability to pay) that are meaningful.
When someone asks why something is priced in a particular manner, stating, "because that's where supply and demand intersect" isn't a very meaningful observation. That's true by definition. The first word in this thread's title is "why," which isn't answered by that statement at all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so the question is why are those willing to pay it? hmmmm there might be a reason one would be willin to pay 1,400 for a 1911 and not for a glock </div></div>
I think if you read this thread carefully, I suspect you'll find that it's supply-side concerns that are driving the price more than demand-side.
The 1911 is a hundred year old design. It's a relic of days when labor was cheap and materials, not so much.
It's just like asking why a brand new M1 Garand or M14 would be expensive today. The answer depends a LOT on the process that it takes to make these relics.
This is not to say that they're not excellent firearms. They certainly are. But inevitably, a 100 year old design has not fully exploited the differences in technology that allow newer firearms designs to be supplied at lower cost.
Even with slave wages and Chinese-level metallurgy, one can only produce a 1911 so cheap. Whatever number that is, I suspect that for a Glock or similar modern design, it's far lower.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
There is a difference between cheap and expensive 1911's the only advice I can provide is stop now. If you don't you will end up thinking a first run kimber is entry level and own multiple les baers and knighthawks. Then you will buy a 70 series gold cup colt national match for posterity (it will be the only colt 1911 worth owning. Next you will learn about John Browning's greatness, if you don't get a tattoo of him on your back you will end up with beligum made hi powers, one wont be enough.
There is nothing finer than the feel, balance, looks, function and firing of a 1911 (full size).
My very first 1911 was a llama that I paid $250 new, and I wish I still had it.
There is a difference between cheap and expensive 1911's the only advice I can provide is stop now. If you don't you will end up thinking a first run kimber is entry level and own multiple les baers and knighthawks. Then you will buy a 70 series gold cup colt national match for posterity (it will be the only colt 1911 worth owning. Next you will learn about John Browning's greatness, if you don't get a tattoo of him on your back you will end up with beligum made hi powers, one wont be enough.
There is nothing finer than the feel, balance, looks, function and firing of a 1911 (full size).
My very first 1911 was a llama that I paid $250 new, and I wish I still had it.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so the question is why are those willing to pay it? hmmmm there might be a reason one would be willin to pay 1,400 for a 1911 and not for a glock </div></div>
Paying $1400 for a 1911 makes you an asshat. Bragging about it makes one stupid and pompous.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so the question is why are those willing to pay it? hmmmm there might be a reason one would be willin to pay 1,400 for a 1911 and not for a glock </div></div>
Paying $1400 for a 1911 makes you an asshat. Bragging about it makes one stupid and pompous.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you don't you will end up thinking a first run kimber is entry level and own multiple les baers and knighthawks...</div></div>
...and others.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you don't you will end up thinking a first run kimber is entry level and own multiple les baers and knighthawks...</div></div>
...and others.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Paying $1400 for a 1911 makes you an asshat.</div></div>
Whew! Close call. Haven't paid $1400. More and less, but not $1400.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Paying $1400 for a 1911 makes you an asshat.</div></div>
Whew! Close call. Haven't paid $1400. More and less, but not $1400.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Paying $1400 for a 1911 makes you an asshat.</div></div>
Whew! Close call. Haven't paid $1400. More and less, but not $1400.</div></div>
ditto
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Paying $1400 for a 1911 makes you an asshat.</div></div>
Whew! Close call. Haven't paid $1400. More and less, but not $1400.</div></div>
ditto
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
I'm really not complaining about the cost of 1911's but was just interested in peoples opinions in their costs. Personally I am fine with paying for an exceptional design that is multiple times older than I am. I respect the 1911 design the same way I respect the 98K Mauser and M-1 Garand designs. The designers who dreamed these things up are impressive.
I'm really not complaining about the cost of 1911's but was just interested in peoples opinions in their costs. Personally I am fine with paying for an exceptional design that is multiple times older than I am. I respect the 1911 design the same way I respect the 98K Mauser and M-1 Garand designs. The designers who dreamed these things up are impressive.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
hmm.. First handgun I ever bought was a Light Weight Comander around 1981. paid around $500 for it new at the gun counter in the back of a hardware store.
That gun has been alot of places with me. A boat gun for many years, truck gun, generaly abused and it has never been altered or worked on.. A bit rusty at that.
Well after a 10 year or so dark period of not being used or cleaned I got back into shooting. So I went to the range after a brief ck of the gun and after around 3 mags or so i thought I could hear the slide cycling and it was actually slowing down until it finaly failed to function. the old oil just gummed up and stuck.
That is the ONLY failure I have ever had in over 30 yrs.
Recently purchased a Berreta 92A1 because I have never had a 9mm. love it too.
Never could quite get a warm feeling for a plastic pistol.
So am now thinking about a full sized 1911.
It will be a .45 and a Colt and around a 1000 bucks.
That does not seem to out of line to me.
hmm.. First handgun I ever bought was a Light Weight Comander around 1981. paid around $500 for it new at the gun counter in the back of a hardware store.
That gun has been alot of places with me. A boat gun for many years, truck gun, generaly abused and it has never been altered or worked on.. A bit rusty at that.
Well after a 10 year or so dark period of not being used or cleaned I got back into shooting. So I went to the range after a brief ck of the gun and after around 3 mags or so i thought I could hear the slide cycling and it was actually slowing down until it finaly failed to function. the old oil just gummed up and stuck.
That is the ONLY failure I have ever had in over 30 yrs.
Recently purchased a Berreta 92A1 because I have never had a 9mm. love it too.
Never could quite get a warm feeling for a plastic pistol.
So am now thinking about a full sized 1911.
It will be a .45 and a Colt and around a 1000 bucks.
That does not seem to out of line to me.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Paying $1400 for a 1911 makes you an asshat. Bragging about it makes one stupid and pompous.</div></div>
asshatery runs rampant in this comment
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Paying $1400 for a 1911 makes you an asshat. Bragging about it makes one stupid and pompous.</div></div>
asshatery runs rampant in this comment
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
Gunsnjeeps Paying $1400 for a 1911 makes you an asshat. Bragging about it makes one stupid and pompous.[/quote said:
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
I carry a Glock 21 for a duty weapon, a Springfield Champion Operator for an off duty and a SIG 238 ( colt mustang ) for a pocket gun. The 1911 is the only gun that no matter who makes it feels right in my hand. Paying $1400 for a 1911 I can see both sides of the argument, but to me it would be worth the money pending the maker and options.
I carry a Glock 21 for a duty weapon, a Springfield Champion Operator for an off duty and a SIG 238 ( colt mustang ) for a pocket gun. The 1911 is the only gun that no matter who makes it feels right in my hand. Paying $1400 for a 1911 I can see both sides of the argument, but to me it would be worth the money pending the maker and options.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
I carry a Glock 21 for a duty weapon, a Springfield Champion Operator for an off duty and a SIG 238 ( colt mustang ) for a pocket gun. The 1911 is the only gun that no matter who makes it feels right in my hand. Paying $1400 for a 1911 I can see both sides of the argument, but to me it would be worth the money pending the maker and options.
I carry a Glock 21 for a duty weapon, a Springfield Champion Operator for an off duty and a SIG 238 ( colt mustang ) for a pocket gun. The 1911 is the only gun that no matter who makes it feels right in my hand. Paying $1400 for a 1911 I can see both sides of the argument, but to me it would be worth the money pending the maker and options.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
Not trolling at all. Just don't understand why people buy over priced guns that don't work because their is so much crap added to them. Then pay more to fix them. The basic 1911 runs out of the box, a $1400 1911 should, too. Instead they'll buy it then when it doesn't work they'll pay more to fix it instead of demanding the quality that it was advertised to have.
Not trolling at all. Just don't understand why people buy over priced guns that don't work because their is so much crap added to them. Then pay more to fix them. The basic 1911 runs out of the box, a $1400 1911 should, too. Instead they'll buy it then when it doesn't work they'll pay more to fix it instead of demanding the quality that it was advertised to have.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
honestly i agree that any gun should run from the factory if it doesn't send it back and make them fix it. the reason i have a couple custom 1911's is the same reason i have some custom bolt guns or a vang comp shotgun, cuz i like the feel and what they do. diferent strokes for diferent folks, i put 10 times as many rounds through my pistols and carbines then my bolt guns and i like them to be just as nice.
honestly i agree that any gun should run from the factory if it doesn't send it back and make them fix it. the reason i have a couple custom 1911's is the same reason i have some custom bolt guns or a vang comp shotgun, cuz i like the feel and what they do. diferent strokes for diferent folks, i put 10 times as many rounds through my pistols and carbines then my bolt guns and i like them to be just as nice.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
I dunno, bro. My Nighthawk and my Baer ran like a top from day 1. I have had the EXACT same number of problems with a Sig Sauer as Ive had with a 1911. One. I have owned a bunch of Sigs, and only a P229 gave me issues. I mean, I could drive a Ford Focus instead of my loaded pickup, hell, I'd save on gas too, right?
I dunno, bro. My Nighthawk and my Baer ran like a top from day 1. I have had the EXACT same number of problems with a Sig Sauer as Ive had with a 1911. One. I have owned a bunch of Sigs, and only a P229 gave me issues. I mean, I could drive a Ford Focus instead of my loaded pickup, hell, I'd save on gas too, right?
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
Savage,
Come on man, your buying a 1911. Along with it comes the history, the hype AND the price tag for all the above. Thats like asking why a harley cost sooo much.
YOU know it. If you just wanted something that gives you the most for your money, you have it, its the XD.
I have a Colt mark4 series 70 and an xd 45 tactical. The mark 4 is sleeping and will stay that way since the xd showed up.
Oh and hopefully you get one that cycles?!?!?!? The mixed bag of quality I have seen out there over the years from all makers of 1911's kinda defies logic.
Just my opinion. I wish you good luck with your 1911 purchase.
DS
Savage,
Come on man, your buying a 1911. Along with it comes the history, the hype AND the price tag for all the above. Thats like asking why a harley cost sooo much.
YOU know it. If you just wanted something that gives you the most for your money, you have it, its the XD.
I have a Colt mark4 series 70 and an xd 45 tactical. The mark 4 is sleeping and will stay that way since the xd showed up.
Oh and hopefully you get one that cycles?!?!?!? The mixed bag of quality I have seen out there over the years from all makers of 1911's kinda defies logic.
Just my opinion. I wish you good luck with your 1911 purchase.
DS
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
I'm going to agree with the reliability comments and observations.
I have shot Kimber Classic Custom, Kimber Custom Target, 2 Colt Officers Models, and an additional Colt (don't know the model). All of these had 2 things in common:
1. They were 1911 models.
2. They JAMMED.
So, I can surmise that you're paying the higher price for resale value.
Happily I was not the owner of any of these so I did not have to worry about selling them.
My .02
I'm going to agree with the reliability comments and observations.
I have shot Kimber Classic Custom, Kimber Custom Target, 2 Colt Officers Models, and an additional Colt (don't know the model). All of these had 2 things in common:
1. They were 1911 models.
2. They JAMMED.
So, I can surmise that you're paying the higher price for resale value.
Happily I was not the owner of any of these so I did not have to worry about selling them.
My .02
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
1400 bucks isn't the high end level of 1911s, if you like it, and it works you just scored a super model. If you hate it, don't like the safety or something, nope it was a bad purchase.
Just like a Vette, if you bought it, you probably like it, and there will people that will go lulz y u buy dat u dum. If you like it, score.
Cut the guy some slack there is no other gun out there that you can just about guarantee that anytown USA there is a smith that can fix it too. Can't say that about my HK 45.
1400 bucks isn't the high end level of 1911s, if you like it, and it works you just scored a super model. If you hate it, don't like the safety or something, nope it was a bad purchase.
Just like a Vette, if you bought it, you probably like it, and there will people that will go lulz y u buy dat u dum. If you like it, score.
Cut the guy some slack there is no other gun out there that you can just about guarantee that anytown USA there is a smith that can fix it too. Can't say that about my HK 45.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
The 1911 is a "premium" gun in many manufacturer's lines, having relatively high materials cost, parts count, labor intensive production, etc., so at $1000 seems expensive.
Look at an expensive brand like Sig, though, and the 1911 is still $1000 for the same reasons but costs the same as other mid-level full frame handguns and significantly less than premium models like the P210, X Five and X Six, stainless slide and frame, etc..
So, it's not that one manufacturer has the market cornered and is ripping people off, but there are dozens of manufacturers and good competition, and that's what it costs to bring one to market.
The 1911 is a "premium" gun in many manufacturer's lines, having relatively high materials cost, parts count, labor intensive production, etc., so at $1000 seems expensive.
Look at an expensive brand like Sig, though, and the 1911 is still $1000 for the same reasons but costs the same as other mid-level full frame handguns and significantly less than premium models like the P210, X Five and X Six, stainless slide and frame, etc..
So, it's not that one manufacturer has the market cornered and is ripping people off, but there are dozens of manufacturers and good competition, and that's what it costs to bring one to market.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
There definitely is a base cost to manufacturing something like the 1911 versus the other polymer framed firearms. However, alot of it is still whatever the customer will pay. Alot of commercialism goes into selling 1911's.
There definitely is a base cost to manufacturing something like the 1911 versus the other polymer framed firearms. However, alot of it is still whatever the customer will pay. Alot of commercialism goes into selling 1911's.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not trolling at all. Just don't understand why people buy over priced guns that don't work because their is so much crap added to them. Then pay more to fix them. The basic 1911 runs out of the box, a $1400 1911 should, too. Instead they'll buy it then when it doesn't work they'll pay more to fix it instead of demanding the quality that it was advertised to have.</div></div>
It's not that they don't work because of the "crap added to them", they tend not to work because of the complexities of the platform, and the difficulty in building a perfect example of the form. You're paying for the skilled labor that it takes to assemble and fit a 1911, compared to that XD which is thrown together out of a pile of parts that get pulled off of the tombstone. Comparison between apples and oranges isn't sufficient to explain it; the 1911 is a platform that can be customized to a far greater degree than any Glock or XD, with a far wider base of components, tinkerers, and possibilities than anything else the handgun world has ever known.
This is both a strength and a weakness. If you are will to expend the energy and maintain the patience to see it through, your reward is a pistol that's the equal of anything else ever built. If you want the cheap and quick way out, you'll be disappointed and swear off the 1911 forever.
A prime steak dinner from Ruth's Chris is not as cheap or as easily acquired as a Big Mac. Both may serve the same purpose of alleviating hunger, but the latter will never be the equal of the former. As they say, if you don't understand why...there's no point in trying to explain with words that which can only be experienced.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not trolling at all. Just don't understand why people buy over priced guns that don't work because their is so much crap added to them. Then pay more to fix them. The basic 1911 runs out of the box, a $1400 1911 should, too. Instead they'll buy it then when it doesn't work they'll pay more to fix it instead of demanding the quality that it was advertised to have.</div></div>
It's not that they don't work because of the "crap added to them", they tend not to work because of the complexities of the platform, and the difficulty in building a perfect example of the form. You're paying for the skilled labor that it takes to assemble and fit a 1911, compared to that XD which is thrown together out of a pile of parts that get pulled off of the tombstone. Comparison between apples and oranges isn't sufficient to explain it; the 1911 is a platform that can be customized to a far greater degree than any Glock or XD, with a far wider base of components, tinkerers, and possibilities than anything else the handgun world has ever known.
This is both a strength and a weakness. If you are will to expend the energy and maintain the patience to see it through, your reward is a pistol that's the equal of anything else ever built. If you want the cheap and quick way out, you'll be disappointed and swear off the 1911 forever.
A prime steak dinner from Ruth's Chris is not as cheap or as easily acquired as a Big Mac. Both may serve the same purpose of alleviating hunger, but the latter will never be the equal of the former. As they say, if you don't understand why...there's no point in trying to explain with words that which can only be experienced.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
Wow...this question opens a can of worms that many have already dipped into. I'm sure many could go on and on about the pros and cons of the 1911 design and whether or not they are worth the price (or even worthy of purchase). I could add my own opinions, some based upon my own experience owning 1911 design pistols, buy I don't see any reason to add to this age old debate. Back to the question that was asked, I believe several have already provided good answers...basically the 1911 has a more complex manufacturing and assembly process.
Whether the weapon is worthy of purchase, or worthy of the price, is an individual decision that only you can answer. Enough said, happy shooting...
Wow...this question opens a can of worms that many have already dipped into. I'm sure many could go on and on about the pros and cons of the 1911 design and whether or not they are worth the price (or even worthy of purchase). I could add my own opinions, some based upon my own experience owning 1911 design pistols, buy I don't see any reason to add to this age old debate. Back to the question that was asked, I believe several have already provided good answers...basically the 1911 has a more complex manufacturing and assembly process.
Whether the weapon is worthy of purchase, or worthy of the price, is an individual decision that only you can answer. Enough said, happy shooting...
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
I've fallen in love with the 1911 also. For me, I find the style of the frame, slide, etc. elegant and classic. I'm not one for all the fancy add-ons (yet) as a picatinny rail just looks wrong to me on the underside of a 1911.
Personally I will be making my first 1911 purchase early next year and will probably be either a Springfield TRP Armory Kote or a Dan Wesson Valor (black, not SS) if I can find one on sale/used. When I buy rifles, handguns, etc. I don't only buy the metal bits. I buy the craftsmanship, customer service, and reliability also. And for those I am willing to pay a pretty penny.
I've fallen in love with the 1911 also. For me, I find the style of the frame, slide, etc. elegant and classic. I'm not one for all the fancy add-ons (yet) as a picatinny rail just looks wrong to me on the underside of a 1911.
Personally I will be making my first 1911 purchase early next year and will probably be either a Springfield TRP Armory Kote or a Dan Wesson Valor (black, not SS) if I can find one on sale/used. When I buy rifles, handguns, etc. I don't only buy the metal bits. I buy the craftsmanship, customer service, and reliability also. And for those I am willing to pay a pretty penny.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
I look at it this way. You can buy a stock Remington 700 for $5-600 and a Tasco give and it will shoot just fine. The Tasco will probably suck and break. Or, you can buy a GAP or similar for $2700+ a SB and you will have a precision rifle. It will have a trued action, premium barrel, bedding, custom paint, superior stock and a tuned trigger. Neither the rifle or the scope will suck and in all actuality they will be exceptional.
With 1911's you can buy a Kimber Custom or similar for $700 give or take and it will shoot just fine. Or, you can buy a Night Hawk or similar for $3000+ and have a 1911 that is precision machined and built to outlast you. Kimber and similar use MIM small parts that have been know to break prematurely (at least in my circles) and alloy frames they advertise to be good for 10k rounds. "High End" 1911 manufactures use steel frames and machined tool steel small parts that I am confident will last well beyond 10k rounds. That's not to say tool steel won't break, I am simply saying it is less likely to break when compared to MIM. If any new 1911(or any other gun for that mater) is a jam-omatic it should go back to the manufacture.
Glocks and similar will run reliably but they are polymer which is less expensive to manufacture which makes them cost less. I carry a 19 and shoot it a lot. It's great. I haven't cleaned it in a year and I shoot 100+ through it just about every week with no failures what so ever. I also own a DW Valor that shoots great too. I do clean it every time I shoot it though because it sets in the safe most of the time. It has had 1000+ rounds through it and I have had no failures to nothing with it. If I had it would have gone back to the manufacture just the same as if my Glock or my Remington did not function properly.
P.S. I'm not trying to start a beat up on Kimber thread. I'm just pointing out the facts.
I look at it this way. You can buy a stock Remington 700 for $5-600 and a Tasco give and it will shoot just fine. The Tasco will probably suck and break. Or, you can buy a GAP or similar for $2700+ a SB and you will have a precision rifle. It will have a trued action, premium barrel, bedding, custom paint, superior stock and a tuned trigger. Neither the rifle or the scope will suck and in all actuality they will be exceptional.
With 1911's you can buy a Kimber Custom or similar for $700 give or take and it will shoot just fine. Or, you can buy a Night Hawk or similar for $3000+ and have a 1911 that is precision machined and built to outlast you. Kimber and similar use MIM small parts that have been know to break prematurely (at least in my circles) and alloy frames they advertise to be good for 10k rounds. "High End" 1911 manufactures use steel frames and machined tool steel small parts that I am confident will last well beyond 10k rounds. That's not to say tool steel won't break, I am simply saying it is less likely to break when compared to MIM. If any new 1911(or any other gun for that mater) is a jam-omatic it should go back to the manufacture.
Glocks and similar will run reliably but they are polymer which is less expensive to manufacture which makes them cost less. I carry a 19 and shoot it a lot. It's great. I haven't cleaned it in a year and I shoot 100+ through it just about every week with no failures what so ever. I also own a DW Valor that shoots great too. I do clean it every time I shoot it though because it sets in the safe most of the time. It has had 1000+ rounds through it and I have had no failures to nothing with it. If I had it would have gone back to the manufacture just the same as if my Glock or my Remington did not function properly.
P.S. I'm not trying to start a beat up on Kimber thread. I'm just pointing out the facts.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> *** But I am thinking a 10mm would be cool, my dad sold one a few years ago and wish I had bought it...</div></div>
The 10mm <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">is</span></span> uber-cool, and it's also cool when Old School meets New School ...
... as in when the early 20th Century 1911-platform meets the late 20th Century 10mm AUTO, the first magnum autoloader.
<span style="font-weight: bold">10mm Delta Elite (circa 2009).</span>
Perhaps slightly cooler is taking a stock example - in my case, a late 80's Blue DE - and letting a talented pistolsmith transform it into a custom rendering, tailored to your specific needs or desires.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Vic Tibbets DE.</span>
In my view, it's the potential to customize a 1911 to a particular shooter's version of what he needs the pistol to be that makes the 1911 so attractive - apart from its storied history as a weapon of war that successfully defended this country.
Of course, there's one I wouldn't want to ever change a thing on ...
<span style="font-weight: bold">My Old, Old School Colt.
A WWI Battlefield 1911.</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> *** But I am thinking a 10mm would be cool, my dad sold one a few years ago and wish I had bought it...</div></div>
The 10mm <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">is</span></span> uber-cool, and it's also cool when Old School meets New School ...
... as in when the early 20th Century 1911-platform meets the late 20th Century 10mm AUTO, the first magnum autoloader.
<span style="font-weight: bold">10mm Delta Elite (circa 2009).</span>
Perhaps slightly cooler is taking a stock example - in my case, a late 80's Blue DE - and letting a talented pistolsmith transform it into a custom rendering, tailored to your specific needs or desires.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Vic Tibbets DE.</span>
In my view, it's the potential to customize a 1911 to a particular shooter's version of what he needs the pistol to be that makes the 1911 so attractive - apart from its storied history as a weapon of war that successfully defended this country.
Of course, there's one I wouldn't want to ever change a thing on ...
<span style="font-weight: bold">My Old, Old School Colt.
A WWI Battlefield 1911.</span>
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jamescaan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dunno, bro. My Nighthawk and my Baer ran like a top from day 1. I have had the EXACT same number of problems with a Sig Sauer as Ive had with a 1911. One. I have owned a bunch of Sigs, and only a P229 gave me issues. I mean, I could drive a Ford Focus instead of my loaded pickup, hell, I'd save on gas too, right?</div></div>
Cost is the same per trigger pull.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jamescaan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dunno, bro. My Nighthawk and my Baer ran like a top from day 1. I have had the EXACT same number of problems with a Sig Sauer as Ive had with a 1911. One. I have owned a bunch of Sigs, and only a P229 gave me issues. I mean, I could drive a Ford Focus instead of my loaded pickup, hell, I'd save on gas too, right?</div></div>
Cost is the same per trigger pull.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shatuponthee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jamescaan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dunno, bro. My Nighthawk and my Baer ran like a top from day 1. I have had the EXACT same number of problems with a Sig Sauer as Ive had with a 1911. One. I have owned a bunch of Sigs, and only a P229 gave me issues. I mean, I could drive a Ford Focus instead of my loaded pickup, hell, I'd save on gas too, right?</div></div>
Cost is the same per trigger pull. </div></div>
But one way is far more satisfying. Also, I can't imagine telling my son, in 20 years, here was my first glock. But one day, he'll own the first 1911I ever bought.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shatuponthee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jamescaan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dunno, bro. My Nighthawk and my Baer ran like a top from day 1. I have had the EXACT same number of problems with a Sig Sauer as Ive had with a 1911. One. I have owned a bunch of Sigs, and only a P229 gave me issues. I mean, I could drive a Ford Focus instead of my loaded pickup, hell, I'd save on gas too, right?</div></div>
Cost is the same per trigger pull. </div></div>
But one way is far more satisfying. Also, I can't imagine telling my son, in 20 years, here was my first glock. But one day, he'll own the first 1911I ever bought.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shatuponthee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jamescaan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dunno, bro. My Nighthawk and my Baer ran like a top from day 1. I have had the EXACT same number of problems with a Sig Sauer as Ive had with a 1911. One. I have owned a bunch of Sigs, and only a P229 gave me issues. I mean, I could drive a Ford Focus instead of my loaded pickup, hell, I'd save on gas too, right?</div></div>
Cost is the same per trigger pull.</div></div>
But you'll take fewer rounds to hit the target with the Les Baer versus the Kimber...which means lower cost per target.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shatuponthee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jamescaan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dunno, bro. My Nighthawk and my Baer ran like a top from day 1. I have had the EXACT same number of problems with a Sig Sauer as Ive had with a 1911. One. I have owned a bunch of Sigs, and only a P229 gave me issues. I mean, I could drive a Ford Focus instead of my loaded pickup, hell, I'd save on gas too, right?</div></div>
Cost is the same per trigger pull.</div></div>
But you'll take fewer rounds to hit the target with the Les Baer versus the Kimber...which means lower cost per target.
Re: Why are 1911's so expensive???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete Sake</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I look at it this way. You can buy a stock Remington 700 for $5-600 and a Tasco give and it will shoot just fine. The Tasco will probably suck and break. Or, you can buy a GAP or similar for $2700+ a SB and you will have a precision rifle. It will have a trued action, premium barrel, bedding, custom paint, superior stock and a tuned trigger. Neither the rifle or the scope will suck and in all actuality they will be exceptional.
</div></div>
But I guess this logic is a big problem that I see floating around these days (especially on this forum). Your right that there are people out there that believe just because it's more expensive... it must be better. Your right that you can go out and buy a GAP for $2700 and then throw a $1500 scope on it and call it a "precision rifle" or in my case you can spend $700 on a Savage and throw a $320 nikon buckmaster on it and for less than the cost of your "precision" scope, get a gun that shoots as good as your 3k plus set up. In shooting skeet today, I out shot a guy with a $1500 browning with my $300 stoeger.
At the end of the day I feel like some things cost what they do because people are retarded enough to pay for it. I think the housing market, and harleys are good ammo for this point. Personally I like to understand what I'm paying for when I buy something. Like another person brought up harleys earlier. This is exactly why I would never buy one. I'll ride my r6 which accelerates much much faster and costs 1/3 as much.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete Sake</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I look at it this way. You can buy a stock Remington 700 for $5-600 and a Tasco give and it will shoot just fine. The Tasco will probably suck and break. Or, you can buy a GAP or similar for $2700+ a SB and you will have a precision rifle. It will have a trued action, premium barrel, bedding, custom paint, superior stock and a tuned trigger. Neither the rifle or the scope will suck and in all actuality they will be exceptional.
</div></div>
But I guess this logic is a big problem that I see floating around these days (especially on this forum). Your right that there are people out there that believe just because it's more expensive... it must be better. Your right that you can go out and buy a GAP for $2700 and then throw a $1500 scope on it and call it a "precision rifle" or in my case you can spend $700 on a Savage and throw a $320 nikon buckmaster on it and for less than the cost of your "precision" scope, get a gun that shoots as good as your 3k plus set up. In shooting skeet today, I out shot a guy with a $1500 browning with my $300 stoeger.
At the end of the day I feel like some things cost what they do because people are retarded enough to pay for it. I think the housing market, and harleys are good ammo for this point. Personally I like to understand what I'm paying for when I buy something. Like another person brought up harleys earlier. This is exactly why I would never buy one. I'll ride my r6 which accelerates much much faster and costs 1/3 as much.
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