Why are militaries going for .338LM instead of 300 magnums?

[dbooksta]

I just noticed that a .30" 208gr A-Max has exactly the same G7 BC as the .338 250gr Scenar.

The 208gr gets the same muzzle velocity from several of the unbelted 300 magnums as the .338 Lapua gives the 250gr, so you can get the same trajectory with less recoil and lighter gear by staying at 30 caliber.

Since the .338 rifles being bought by NATO forces are anti-personnel, not anti-materiel, I assume the extra energy the .338 delivers isn't a factor. AFAIK only 250gr rounds have been fielded. Was the availability of higher-BC 300gr bullets a factor in, for example, the PSR contract?

What recommends the .338 Lapua if you're not shooting 300gr bullets?

 

[sirhitalot]

Amax is an expanding bullet, which is illegal to use on personell. A LM will have the ability to deliver more energy and they can use 300gr bullets.


Fra iPhone

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

You are putting way too much thought into this..... The answer for why they use what they use is simple politics.

The primary military users of the .338 LM are EU countries using the .338 as a anti material / extended range round. The "LM" as we all know stands for Lapua Magnum. Lapua is a EU company headquartered in Finland if I remember correctly. See the connection?


The US Military still uses the .50 BMG as the primary anti material round. The .338 LM sees very limited use in the US Military and I think it's mostly with the SOCOM/JSOC type groups but I could be wrong. The US Military also seems to be going the way of the .300 WM as a sniper round. The "WM" as we all know stands for Winchester Magnum. Olin Winchester is a United States company. The .300 is also popular round in the US but not so popular in Europe.

As you can see it's all about who is using the round and where it is made. Nobody signing the checks that's paying for the equipment gives a shit about ballistics but they do care about the Politics of the region.

 

[dbooksta]

[MENTION=43357]COLOSHOOTR[/MENTION], good points -- hadn't thought of it that way!

But the USSOCOM PSR contract was just awarded for a system built to support the .338LM, and every competitor for the contract was .338LM even though the RFP only specified range and accuracy. I don't understand why an unbelted American cartridges that can match the ballistics, like the .300 RUM, wasn't entered by anybody.

 

[longshooter]

Makesya wonder what those German snipers are doin with their 300 wm and their whatisit 250-260 grain bullets.

 

[sinister]

The United States Special Operations Command specified a 33-caliber projectile that could kill hard plate personnel body armor at a specified range, with 1 MOA (or less) elevation variation to a farther specified distance. They didn't state it had to be any particular case or cartridge -- it could have been anything from a 338 Remington Ultra Mag or 338 Norma to a 340 Weatherby, or even a new cartridge if an ammo manufacturer wanted to front one.

The Navy wanted to keep the 300 Winchester Magnum, and the US Army Special Forces Command did not, for many reasons to include barrel life.

Both the US Marine Corps and Army still have not decided what they want in a bolt-action sniper rifle. The Marines maintain their M40s, and the Army is transitioning the M24 fleet from 7.62 to 300WM until they finally and officially state their requirements.

 

[dbooksta]

I didn't see the caliber spec for the PSR. Does anyone manufacture AP bullets in .33? That was yet another advantage I saw of staying at .30 -- there are so many special-purpose bullets already in inventory and manufacture for that caliber. There's hardly anything in .33.

Also isn't barrel life of the 300WM notably better than 338LM?

 

[longebow]

Lapua and Ruag Swiss P make AP ammo for the 338 LM.
Barrel life for the 300 WM is typically 1000-1500 rounds, 338 LM is higher. Have seen literature that SAKO lists the accurate life for the TRG42 5000+.

 

[TheGerman]

You are putting way too much thought into this..... The answer for why they use what they use is simple politics.

The primary military users of the .338 LM are EU countries using the .338 as a anti material / extended range round. The "LM" as we all know stands for Lapua Magnum. Lapua is a EU company headquartered in Finland if I remember correctly. See the connection?


The US Military still uses the .50 BMG as the primary anti material round. The .338 LM sees very limited use in the US Military and I think it's mostly with the SOCOM/JSOC type groups but I could be wrong. The US Military also seems to be going the way of the .300 WM as a sniper round. The "WM" as we all know stands for Winchester Magnum. Olin Winchester is a United States company. The .300 is also popular round in the US but not so popular in Europe.

As you can see it's all about who is using the round and where it is made. Nobody signing the checks that's paying for the equipment gives a shit about ballistics but they do care about the Politics of the region.

Bundeswehr G22 (AI AWMF) are chambered in 300WM; I used one. This was a few years back, but the rifle build is a Brit rifle, with an American (yet still NATO) round made by a German munitions company and a German optic. Figure that out.

I am not sure how they have progressed since then as I trained with one roughly 2-3 years after they were rotated in/started use in service but have never seen much of a cry towards needing more range and/or stopping power, especially given that our optics were a limiting factor for accurate ELR distances at 3-12.

 

[TheGerman]

Makesya wonder what those German snipers are doin with their 300 wm and their whatisit 250-260 grain bullets.

As far as what?

If I remember correctly, the AP round was only 198 grains and FMJ was 200.

 

[longshooter]

As far as bullet type and weight, and their reason for preferring it in the .300 WM.

 

[TheGerman]

As far as bullet type and weight, and their reason for preferring it in the .300 WM.

I'm partially guessing at this point in regards to just the Bundeswehr, but I'm sure it has something to do with:

- No real 'need' for what the 338 offers over the 300WM. As I mentioned, the optics were a bit of a limiting factor in that you COULD already shoot more accurately and further with the 300WM cartridge than the 12x top end allowed to most shooters. I have never heard of anyone complaining about a lack of range or stopping power in hopes of something like the 338. Compared to what people shoot/reload for the 300WM we even use (unless this has changed) a fairly 'small' grain round as is.

- I'm sure it had something to do with procurement. I know that the main 2 German munitions factories both make 300WM but not 338 (at least didn't). Not sure which was the chicken and which was the egg, the 300WM cartridge was made so we ordered AI rifles in 300WM or the other way around, but I am sure this had some sort of impact from the munitions companies in that they preferred to produce/keep producing the 300WM over the 338.

- GSG uses the 338 in the DSR platform. I THINK the GOL has been adopted as well, so there is obviously someone that sees its benefits but since this is police use I am guessing it is due to the greater knockdown/wound ballistics of the 338 when 1 shot is needed to guarantee that you pacify a target even at the already short distances GSG would probably engage within.

- It just isn't needed overall as far as the Bundeswehr. Let's face it, even since Kosovo the Bund hasn't really been a large fighting force. We don't need, with current politics and doctrine something that will reach out there past where the 300WM does. Hell, the 300WM is complete overkill for 95% of what is going on right now with a severely limited amount of deployed Germans in Afghanistan as well as their ever shitty ROI. A 338 would just be heavier, require different logistics, cost more, require the munitions factories to retool/change their logistics and just be a headache when in the end, it will just sit there. The 338 is a solution for the problems with the 300WM that we don't have.

 

[CajunBuldg]

From what I have read and been told is the appealing part of the 338LM round is the cross between the 300WM and 50BMG. The cross in that more ammo can be carried by one person than that of the 50 and Lapua is now making AP and API rounds which given the energy it carries and the different rounds available it is more appealing than the 300WM. Like I said this is just info which has been shared with me, that and that alone.


Yes, I am using Tapatalk

 

[jtv3062]

You are putting way too much thought into this..... The answer for why they use what they use is simple politics.

The primary military users of the .338 LM are EU countries using the .338 as a anti material / extended range round. The "LM" as we all know stands for Lapua Magnum. Lapua is a EU company headquartered in Finland if I remember correctly. See the connection?


The US Military still uses the .50 BMG as the primary anti material round. The .338 LM sees very limited use in the US Militry and I think it's mostly with the SOCOM/JSOC type groups but I could be wrong. The US Military also seems to be going the way of the .300 WM as a sniper round. The "WM" as we all know stands for Winchester Magnum. Olin Winchester is a United States company. The .300 is also popular round in the US but not so popular in Europe.

As you can see it's all about who is using the round and where it is made. Nobody signing the checks that's paying for the equipment gives a shit about ballistics but they do care about the Politics of the region.

Now tell us who Laupa developed the .338 round for?