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Why are Proof Carbon Fiber barrels superior to Christensen? BSF? Dracos?
- Thread starter LilGucci
- Start date
I'm thinking of just getting one for my Nemo-Wilson showcase build, the green or blue colored one. They look really cool... I just wish they had chrome-lined Dracos barrels that I can shoot the crap out of with any non-match ammo, because using non-match grade ammo voids your warranty.
That actually saddens me. Proof has a right to charge what they do, because the performance of their products are pretty outstanding, but I wished Christensen (or other entries into the carbon-fiber arena) would give them some serious competition.
I had never heard of a StraightJacket Barrel System before. I had heard that Dracos was working with (and now owns) another company to make their barrels but I never knew it was them (Teludyne). I'll give them a try, especially now that I can pick use any barrel!
Lol you should get a CF barrel wrapped by them.. then you’d totally have the best barrel ever, right?
I’ve got a 223 I just had DMR put together for me with a proof 1/8 twist it’s a bad ass little rifle And I have a carbon 6 built 6cm 1/7 twist and both rifles shoot lights out can’t find anything wrong with ether the quality is identical imho I think carbon 6 has made a huge push into the carbon fiber market, I was a little disappointed that they don’t do machine work on actions anymore, if they did that 223 would be a carbon 6 barrel
I left that forum after it was too many examples of behavior and reviews that could only be explained by LRO guys being well paid for their reviews. Even video reviews with crap fundamentals & accuracy were explained away as nothing wrong with the Christensen rifle. They also quickly remove any negative posts about any forum sponsor and ban people. definitely not the place to speak freely or trust for reliable information.
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StraightJacket is the OG. Dracos has a loan agreement on the patent in order to make their barrels. The SJ system is a little different than the Dracos. First being overall diameter (dracos 30mm, SJ 1.25"), your barrel gets wrapped with SJ, Dracos sells you a barrel all done, because the Dracos is 30mm, a standard barrel nut slides right down over it all. With the SJ, your barrel nut will be fixed on to the barrel, so to speak, with the jacket. If you have any Q's regarding the SJ system, feel free to PM me. I own quite a few, both old and new.
For me personally the CF has one distinct advantage over a pencil barrel, I can put a suppressor on it and save weight. Based on the Pacnor barrel calculator it takes a #6 contour to get the 0.75” muzzle diameter for 5/8x24 threads which equals a barrel weight of 4 pounds. If I get it fluted I may be able to shave 1/2 a pound but I’m still 3/4 of a pound heavier than the proof CF prefit which is 2.75 pounds.
The barrel manufacturers will make whatever you want. If you want a #1 contour with a .725 muzzle, just ask.
Exactly. For a similar example look at the reverse contour rim fire bench rest barrels, or Anschutz barrels..
Like I said bro if you want it, get it. It’s your $$$.. but don’t expect any advantage beyond aesthetics.
Then this is the route I'm going. I'm actually thinking of doing both Dracos (just to try it out) and SJ for everything else. I'll keep in touch when my next wave of builds starts in a couple of months.
I don't think Bartlein is offering AR barrels. http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/bartlein-barrels-introduces-carbon-fiber-barrels.4005065/
And, when they do, so far looks like street price on the bolt barrels is the same:
Proof $729 street: https://www.evolvedballistics.com/shop/proof-barrels/proof-research-bolt-action-carbon-fiber.html
Bartlein $729 street: https://redhawkrifles.com/bartlein-284-7mm-caliber-carbon-fiber-5r-barrels/
I know this is an old post, but LRH makes me furious. I learned TONS about precision reloading from that site back when real shooters and gunsmiths used the forum. Every time someone like Kirby Allen tried to teach us something some dipshit that has never shot long range would start arguing with him, when people tried to line the dipshit out Len Backus would tell everyone we were being too mean and it would not be tolerated, no bullying. The wealth of knowledge gathered in one place that could have been had is depressing. God I hate Len Backus.
Since we are reviving old posts. I tested 6.5 Creed AR 10 builds in roughly 1-2 samples each. Christensen , Proof, BSF, and dracos. I worked up handloads for each, and did accuracy testing. The accuracy ran 1 Christensen, 2 (close behind) dracos, 3 BSF, 4 proof.
The Christensen jammed up with 140's and had to be modified to run them. Once it was modified it shot phenomenally. It shot between .5 and .625
The Dracos gas system sucks, but is usable. It shot closer to the .625 average.
The BSF shot well when cold, but heated up very rapidly and went to shit. Then cooled off and shot well again.
The proof was closer to .75-.90" in accuracy averages. I could not get it to shoot better. Maybe wrong bullets, maybe I got a lemon.
All of them except the hot BSF were pretty easy to get to or under 1 moa. If doing again I would gladly shoot Christensen , Dracos, or Proof. I am not into barrels walking around.
The Christensen jammed up with 140's and had to be modified to run them. Once it was modified it shot phenomenally. It shot between .5 and .625
The Dracos gas system sucks, but is usable. It shot closer to the .625 average.
The BSF shot well when cold, but heated up very rapidly and went to shit. Then cooled off and shot well again.
The proof was closer to .75-.90" in accuracy averages. I could not get it to shoot better. Maybe wrong bullets, maybe I got a lemon.
All of them except the hot BSF were pretty easy to get to or under 1 moa. If doing again I would gladly shoot Christensen , Dracos, or Proof. I am not into barrels walking around.
Why is proof the best? Because they say they are and not enough people are calling them out on their bullshit. I agree they used to produce a good shooting barrel, now they are all over the place. Seen multiple examples from buddies rifles, both proof drop in ar and bolt gun barrels, blanks spun up by other smiths, and personally multiple blanks I spun up myself. I have been very happy with the consistency of the bartlein CFW blanks. I’d be happy to share my experiences as well as buddies’ with proof barrels recently. Send me a pm if interested.
While I agree with the statement about LRH as well, my post was replying to a point on LRO (Long Range Only). Too easy to have a typo of LRH when I meant LRO. But, in the end, neither are proving terribly valuable these days.
Frank and team (Bartlein) are currenty working on CF AR Barrels. Look into one of the 6mm ARC threads where I asked about it.
The gas system is not adjustable, I would suggest running an adjustable gas key on your BCG.
Substrate matters, wrapped or unwrapped. Then the wrapping matters.
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Odds are the proof was a bigger diameter which meant more surface area to cool to the air. They can get away with that because it is lighter.
I used to make the substrate steel barrels for place out of Minnesota, what was their name...Magnum Research, mountain eagle or summot..Funky stuff
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do you mean the steel was bigger diameter or the CF wrap? If the barrel gets hotter quicker, it's probably a lighter contour steel substrate, as the heat will escape from thinner wall more quickly than a thicker wall. Remeber it's hottest inside the bore, as you add wall thickness it slows down the rate the top of the barrel will heat up.
with the carbon fiber wrap the diameter is larger than if they made the barrel out of solid steel.
I was told the carbon fiber is wrapped specifically for the twist rate of the barrel. Is that true and why would it matter?
If Proof told you they wrapped specifically for twist rate, thats one thing. Otherwise I'd take being told with a grain of salt. Would it matter? They do have some equipment, but honestly I have not enough data to support 'mattering'.
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This is exactly what I would/was expecting from BSF. Yeah it’s made to cool down quickly, but your essentially shooting with the mass of a turned down barrel. That’s gotta heat up rapidly compared to any other barrel. Not ideal for anyone other than maybe a sniper posted up in Iraq, only taking a couple shots at a time.
My first BSF Grendel was a lemon. It had circular vents and was replaced by the factory with the current slotted vents. It shot great for the first few trips. I agree that it heats up quickly and begins to open up.
That barrel, with load dev, could be a real shooter. It is now on a Pig hunting platform.
I have a SS Odin that consistently prints .75” groups. I guess that’s ok, but my Wilson .556 is a one hole gun.
To each his own. If the weight savings are important, buy carbon. If accuracy is paramount, spend the money on a gunsmith turned, precision AR barrel.
As with everything firearm related, quality and performance cost money. A lot of it.
Ps, I had a DPMS style AR10 with a carbon proof barrel at 18”. It never shot well. Maybe .5” groups at best with 168g SMK. I was ashamed to be seen in public with it. Oh the humanity...
what do you mean a gunsmith turned precision barrel? like buying a blank and having your own gunsmith rifle and chamber it?
also what’s wrong with a sub moa large frame AR? lol 0.5” is usually what people aim for.
That’s exactly what I mean. People like to pretend that just because it’s an AR, the barrel should be a drop-in ready Sniper system. A gunsmith worth their salt can still chamber, thread, fit an extension and true, mount and assemble a precision upper. All while using a contoured blank. It may be more expensive, but I’ve seen the results. Precision rifle building isn’t just for bolt guns. More expensive? You betcha. But hey, you can’t have champagne tastes with a cocoa cola budget.
My comment about my AR10 was complete sarcasm, hence the snark about “not showing my face in public and oh the humanity...”
That rifle was fantastic.
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So if you want a cold bore walk around hunting AR where weight is paramount, it looks like the BSF is probably the best option.
I’ve had a few Proof barrels with horrible runout. So bad they couldn’t be chambered. Luckily they took care of me and replaced them at no charge.
just not shooting it. I have an Odin SS that I prefer. I just like the weight of a steel barrel Better. This one is my second BSF and a year old. The last one I had was a great shooter too, just too light for my taste. Things change!
@HolyCity73 you had me thinking it was a garbage barrel or something. I know what you mean about guns being too light. It's one thing if you carry them all day to shoot them once, another thing entirely if you like shooting them all day.
Exactly! I have hunted with my other bsf and it was great On Pigs.
Our Sounders usually vanish into the woods by the second shot and we are generally stationary so a really light AR is more of a novelty. The current BSF has only been on a bench with an ASR on it.
I will probably sell it in the upper minus the bcg and hand guard.
I won’t be needing it.
Yeah, I built a sub 5lb AR for my eldest son when he was 9 years old and scrawny. He could hold it and shoot it well but it was the most unpleasant AR I've ever shot. A few years of eating his weaties later and we keep buying heavier parts for it and it's a lot nicer to use.
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