Suppressors Why are suppressors so expensive?
- Thread starter randian
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Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
Big part is the cost of doing business as a CLII Manufacturer,CLIII Dealer and SOT,Uncle gets his money.The paperwork Trail you need to maintain is Pretty Horrendous,and it is still a very small niche market,JMHO.A lot of the high end cans are made from Titanium,not the cheapest material to buy and work with.Somebody needs to pay for the Mills,Lathes,and Tooling,not to mention labor.They don't give that away.Believe it or not,the Suppressor market is Very Competitive.
Big part is the cost of doing business as a CLII Manufacturer,CLIII Dealer and SOT,Uncle gets his money.The paperwork Trail you need to maintain is Pretty Horrendous,and it is still a very small niche market,JMHO.A lot of the high end cans are made from Titanium,not the cheapest material to buy and work with.Somebody needs to pay for the Mills,Lathes,and Tooling,not to mention labor.They don't give that away.Believe it or not,the Suppressor market is Very Competitive.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
Because you have to pay to be tacticool.
I'm sure it's a small market, most people never buy a suppressor just because of the hassle, paperwork, and attention involved. I also have no doubt that if you want to be a CLII manuf. it's expensive and involves lots of paperwork, and TI for those that use it is spendy as well. I'd also best that suppressors, especially the really good ones are more intensive to produce than most of us think. Most people figure they are just a tube with some stuffing in them.
I'd also bet that can manufacturers figure that if someone IS willing to go through the hassle and expense of getting a can, they will pay for it through the nose, like most things in most markets if you get high enough up the quality/cool factor chain the price never reflects that the part construction actually costs.
Because you have to pay to be tacticool.
I'm sure it's a small market, most people never buy a suppressor just because of the hassle, paperwork, and attention involved. I also have no doubt that if you want to be a CLII manuf. it's expensive and involves lots of paperwork, and TI for those that use it is spendy as well. I'd also best that suppressors, especially the really good ones are more intensive to produce than most of us think. Most people figure they are just a tube with some stuffing in them.
I'd also bet that can manufacturers figure that if someone IS willing to go through the hassle and expense of getting a can, they will pay for it through the nose, like most things in most markets if you get high enough up the quality/cool factor chain the price never reflects that the part construction actually costs.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
Materials and paperwork as was already mentioned. Inconel and titanium aren't cheap...
Materials and paperwork as was already mentioned. Inconel and titanium aren't cheap...
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
You know I really think the "attention" aspect is greatly over stated. Really, ATF admits they have no real idea what is and isn't in the NFAR and if you're doing a trust then only you, your dealer, and BATF have to know about it. That coupled with the huge up-surge in new registrations over the past couple years just serves to muddy up the water a little more and help to let you be another anonymous tax stamp holder. I just sent in for 5 more stamps and I have yet to lose a second of sleep over it... and I'm a guy who's pretty conscious about my personal information.
You know I really think the "attention" aspect is greatly over stated. Really, ATF admits they have no real idea what is and isn't in the NFAR and if you're doing a trust then only you, your dealer, and BATF have to know about it. That coupled with the huge up-surge in new registrations over the past couple years just serves to muddy up the water a little more and help to let you be another anonymous tax stamp holder. I just sent in for 5 more stamps and I have yet to lose a second of sleep over it... and I'm a guy who's pretty conscious about my personal information.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
I didn't mean ATF etc. kind of attention. I meant people getting them to look cool, and have a tacticool toy that most people don't. You bring a suppressor here to the range you have to get inspected by the range officer, and everyone there is going to swarm over your tacticool toy, some people don't want that kind of attention either. So their AR/handgun/rifle etc. can look bad ass, it's an image thing. The same reason guys buy NVG gear etc. etc.
Now don't get me wrong I understand the function they serve reduced recoil, less noise pollution etc. and no doubt that is some people's only motivation for them. Heck I wish more people used them at the range. That said I'd be willing to bet the average guy buying suppressors isn't doing it just because of that, it's at least as much the "badass image" issue as it is functionality.
Besides if suppressors really are that expensive to make and produce, how come in other countries where they are not regulated are they practically an order of magnitude cheaper? Perhaps it's all CLII manufacturing/paperwork, but somehow I doubt it.
I didn't mean ATF etc. kind of attention. I meant people getting them to look cool, and have a tacticool toy that most people don't. You bring a suppressor here to the range you have to get inspected by the range officer, and everyone there is going to swarm over your tacticool toy, some people don't want that kind of attention either. So their AR/handgun/rifle etc. can look bad ass, it's an image thing. The same reason guys buy NVG gear etc. etc.
Now don't get me wrong I understand the function they serve reduced recoil, less noise pollution etc. and no doubt that is some people's only motivation for them. Heck I wish more people used them at the range. That said I'd be willing to bet the average guy buying suppressors isn't doing it just because of that, it's at least as much the "badass image" issue as it is functionality.
Besides if suppressors really are that expensive to make and produce, how come in other countries where they are not regulated are they practically an order of magnitude cheaper? Perhaps it's all CLII manufacturing/paperwork, but somehow I doubt it.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
Places they're less restricted are cheaper.
For .22s, they're essentially disposable, $25-35 and up.
With Tax and paperwork, you expect them to last forever.
Where OTC sales are available, you don't mind so much when it blows up.
Places they're less restricted are cheaper.
For .22s, they're essentially disposable, $25-35 and up.
With Tax and paperwork, you expect them to last forever.
Where OTC sales are available, you don't mind so much when it blows up.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
..
Wrote about this before...THE MOST EXPENSIVE PART IS THE WELDING. The welder is the highest paid person on the floor. Much more than materials, much more than machine time. If your can isn't 100% 360 welded (and I think it should be deep penetration welded) and you paying big bucks, well your not getting your moneys worth. A good Ti welder will weld for about 6 seconds and have to stop to cool...and then start again. Screwed and glued? Compressed and capture, monocore? MUCH less expensive and that should be reflected in the price.
..
Wrote about this before...THE MOST EXPENSIVE PART IS THE WELDING. The welder is the highest paid person on the floor. Much more than materials, much more than machine time. If your can isn't 100% 360 welded (and I think it should be deep penetration welded) and you paying big bucks, well your not getting your moneys worth. A good Ti welder will weld for about 6 seconds and have to stop to cool...and then start again. Screwed and glued? Compressed and capture, monocore? MUCH less expensive and that should be reflected in the price.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..
Wrote about this before...THE MOST EXPENSIVE PART IS THE WELDING. The welder is the highest paid person on the floor. Much more than materials, much more than machine time. If your can isn't 100% 360 welded (and I think it should be deep penetration welded) and you paying big bucks, well your not getting your moneys worth. A good Ti welder will weld for about 6 seconds and have to stop to cool...and then start again. Screwed and glued? Compressed and capture, monocore? MUCH less expensive and that should be reflected in the price. </div></div>
Machine time is way more than one persons pay ... Some shops I've worked at charge 300.00 an hour for cnc machine time
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..
Wrote about this before...THE MOST EXPENSIVE PART IS THE WELDING. The welder is the highest paid person on the floor. Much more than materials, much more than machine time. If your can isn't 100% 360 welded (and I think it should be deep penetration welded) and you paying big bucks, well your not getting your moneys worth. A good Ti welder will weld for about 6 seconds and have to stop to cool...and then start again. Screwed and glued? Compressed and capture, monocore? MUCH less expensive and that should be reflected in the price. </div></div>
Machine time is way more than one persons pay ... Some shops I've worked at charge 300.00 an hour for cnc machine time
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..
Wrote about this before...THE MOST EXPENSIVE PART IS THE WELDING. The welder is the highest paid person on the floor. Much more than materials, much more than machine time. If your can isn't 100% 360 welded (and I think it should be deep penetration welded) and you paying big bucks, well your not getting your moneys worth. A good Ti welder will weld for about 6 seconds and have to stop to cool...and then start again. Screwed and glued? Compressed and capture, monocore? MUCH less expensive and that should be reflected in the price. </div></div>
Boy, I hate to think what my $2k Jaws can would have cost if it was welded!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..
Wrote about this before...THE MOST EXPENSIVE PART IS THE WELDING. The welder is the highest paid person on the floor. Much more than materials, much more than machine time. If your can isn't 100% 360 welded (and I think it should be deep penetration welded) and you paying big bucks, well your not getting your moneys worth. A good Ti welder will weld for about 6 seconds and have to stop to cool...and then start again. Screwed and glued? Compressed and capture, monocore? MUCH less expensive and that should be reflected in the price. </div></div>
Boy, I hate to think what my $2k Jaws can would have cost if it was welded!!!
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
..
Hell with that, think how your $2k can would sound if it was welded...
Zev, your confusing custom set-up time with run time...welding, nothing comes close.
..
Hell with that, think how your $2k can would sound if it was welded...
Zev, your confusing custom set-up time with run time...welding, nothing comes close.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
Zev-
I have a buddy who's a world class fabricator that contracts on hard to weld setups. The Ti welding world is largely driven by alloy and method but he charges $250/hr if he supplies all the equipment and $100/hr if he just has to show up with face shield and gloves.
CNC machines move a lot faster than he can. Orbital welders like what Gemtec uses on their Sandstorm make very strong welds, I know a guy who has one for custom medical device fabrication and bio-reactors. There's pros and cons to each way of doing it, but welding work in this type of application is highly skilled and easily ruined, even if it appears to be a high integrity weld.
Ti is a general nuisance to work with in many ways.
Zev-
I have a buddy who's a world class fabricator that contracts on hard to weld setups. The Ti welding world is largely driven by alloy and method but he charges $250/hr if he supplies all the equipment and $100/hr if he just has to show up with face shield and gloves.
CNC machines move a lot faster than he can. Orbital welders like what Gemtec uses on their Sandstorm make very strong welds, I know a guy who has one for custom medical device fabrication and bio-reactors. There's pros and cons to each way of doing it, but welding work in this type of application is highly skilled and easily ruined, even if it appears to be a high integrity weld.
Ti is a general nuisance to work with in many ways.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tarzan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">because they can and someone is willing to pay that to look cool</div></div>
+1
if somebody wants something bad enough, they are willing to pay whatever to get it. I will stick with ear plugs. They are cheaper than a gun muffler and do the same thing.
Edit: would I like a can...sure, but I am not willing to pay out the nose and jump through hoops for a product that should cost $200 or less out the door.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tarzan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">because they can and someone is willing to pay that to look cool</div></div>
+1
if somebody wants something bad enough, they are willing to pay whatever to get it. I will stick with ear plugs. They are cheaper than a gun muffler and do the same thing.
Edit: would I like a can...sure, but I am not willing to pay out the nose and jump through hoops for a product that should cost $200 or less out the door.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shooter19802003</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tarzan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">because they can and someone is willing to pay that to look cool</div></div>
+1
if somebody wants something bad enough, they are willing to pay whatever to get it. I will stick with ear plugs. They are cheaper than a gun muffler and do the same thing.
Edit: would I like a can...sure, but I am not willing to pay out the nose and jump through hoops for a product that should cost $200 or less out the door. </div></div>
If you think you can build a suppressor for 200 bucks and pay for all your overhead, then you should do it. God forbid any dealer and manufacturer making any margins on the goods they provide.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shooter19802003</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tarzan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">because they can and someone is willing to pay that to look cool</div></div>
+1
if somebody wants something bad enough, they are willing to pay whatever to get it. I will stick with ear plugs. They are cheaper than a gun muffler and do the same thing.
Edit: would I like a can...sure, but I am not willing to pay out the nose and jump through hoops for a product that should cost $200 or less out the door. </div></div>
If you think you can build a suppressor for 200 bucks and pay for all your overhead, then you should do it. God forbid any dealer and manufacturer making any margins on the goods they provide.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Zev-
I have a buddy who's a world class fabricator that contracts on hard to weld setups. The Ti welding world is largely driven by alloy and method but he charges $250/hr if he supplies all the equipment and $100/hr if he just has to show up with face shield and gloves.
CNC machines move a lot faster than he can. Orbital welders like what Gemtec uses on their Sandstorm make very strong welds, I know a guy who has one for custom medical device fabrication and bio-reactors. There's pros and cons to each way of
doing it, but welding work in this type of application is highly skilled and easily ruined, even if it appears to be a high integrity weld.
Ti is a general nuisance to work with in many ways. </div></div>E-systems charged a flat rate of 300.00 an hour for production or set up ,it was all the same time to them..programming was 3 times that.
As far a welding goes I think most of it is done on the ends of a suppressor ore just threaded like silencerco,but I do agree their are sum fully welded cans but all of the cans are way to much!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Zev-
I have a buddy who's a world class fabricator that contracts on hard to weld setups. The Ti welding world is largely driven by alloy and method but he charges $250/hr if he supplies all the equipment and $100/hr if he just has to show up with face shield and gloves.
CNC machines move a lot faster than he can. Orbital welders like what Gemtec uses on their Sandstorm make very strong welds, I know a guy who has one for custom medical device fabrication and bio-reactors. There's pros and cons to each way of
doing it, but welding work in this type of application is highly skilled and easily ruined, even if it appears to be a high integrity weld.
Ti is a general nuisance to work with in many ways. </div></div>E-systems charged a flat rate of 300.00 an hour for production or set up ,it was all the same time to them..programming was 3 times that.
As far a welding goes I think most of it is done on the ends of a suppressor ore just threaded like silencerco,but I do agree their are sum fully welded cans but all of the cans are way to much!
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: randian</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: randian</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
shooter19802003 said:
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: randian</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: randian</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
shooter19802003 said:
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
As pertaining to margins; that has to be about the best way to look at it. Here they sell FAR fewer pieces than European companies do. It takes a lot more money to recoup your overhead in a market that is VERY significantly smaller.
As pertaining to margins; that has to be about the best way to look at it. Here they sell FAR fewer pieces than European companies do. It takes a lot more money to recoup your overhead in a market that is VERY significantly smaller.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
That's true, but how much of those low sales numbers are simply due to the high cost? I mean $1500 for a suppressor is priced way outside what most people would pay for one even *IF* they were okay with doing the NFA process. By the time you get done with a trust (if you go that way) and all the transfer processing fees, stamp etc. you are in for $2000+.
I would think that a lot more people would be open to buying them if the price was lower, which would mean these companies would sell exponentially more units, one would think that would keep the economy of scale going.
Perhaps due to the NFA hoops, negative sterotypes, etc. and such people would never buy them on a large scale no matter the cost, I guess you don't see that many .22 suppressors running around and they are much lower in price.
That's true, but how much of those low sales numbers are simply due to the high cost? I mean $1500 for a suppressor is priced way outside what most people would pay for one even *IF* they were okay with doing the NFA process. By the time you get done with a trust (if you go that way) and all the transfer processing fees, stamp etc. you are in for $2000+.
I would think that a lot more people would be open to buying them if the price was lower, which would mean these companies would sell exponentially more units, one would think that would keep the economy of scale going.
Perhaps due to the NFA hoops, negative sterotypes, etc. and such people would never buy them on a large scale no matter the cost, I guess you don't see that many .22 suppressors running around and they are much lower in price.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
Sorry about the misunderstanding there. I'm just so use to people trashing silencer ownership because the think "the man" in just waiting to pounce on them I sometimes just get a little defensive about it.
In Europe where can manufacture and sale is all but unregulated they are made more cheaply. When I lived in Germany I had a couple .22 cans and shot a .30 rifle one that belonged to a friend. I think the rifle can was about $100 and I got the .22 cans off of a gun store counter for about $10-20 each. They were stamped sheet metal baffles (the .22 cans were copies of Maxim baffles) and CRS tubes with threaded caps. I just threw them out when I came back stateside and didn't think twice about it. If it were that easy in the US they would be cheaper because the market would be larger but there would still be a higher mark up based on taxes alone. Just to get into can manufacture in the US you're looking at the following:
07 FFL (3 years) - $150
02 SOT (annual) - $500-1000
ITAR (annual) - $2250
Excise tax (per item sale price over 50 per year) - 10-11%
So if you make 200 cans a year and sell them for $500 each you're potentially looking at a little over $66.00 per unit just to cover taxes and fees.
On top of all of those you're still looking at sales tax, shop overhead, insurance, materials, R&D, and numerous other expenses. Make no mistake, its spendy... and not just the welding and CNC work.
Sorry about the misunderstanding there. I'm just so use to people trashing silencer ownership because the think "the man" in just waiting to pounce on them I sometimes just get a little defensive about it.
In Europe where can manufacture and sale is all but unregulated they are made more cheaply. When I lived in Germany I had a couple .22 cans and shot a .30 rifle one that belonged to a friend. I think the rifle can was about $100 and I got the .22 cans off of a gun store counter for about $10-20 each. They were stamped sheet metal baffles (the .22 cans were copies of Maxim baffles) and CRS tubes with threaded caps. I just threw them out when I came back stateside and didn't think twice about it. If it were that easy in the US they would be cheaper because the market would be larger but there would still be a higher mark up based on taxes alone. Just to get into can manufacture in the US you're looking at the following:
07 FFL (3 years) - $150
02 SOT (annual) - $500-1000
ITAR (annual) - $2250
Excise tax (per item sale price over 50 per year) - 10-11%
So if you make 200 cans a year and sell them for $500 each you're potentially looking at a little over $66.00 per unit just to cover taxes and fees.
On top of all of those you're still looking at sales tax, shop overhead, insurance, materials, R&D, and numerous other expenses. Make no mistake, its spendy... and not just the welding and CNC work.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
Hell, simply supplying the ammo to T&E cans while in development could easily run into the tens of thousands of dollars per design. Cost average that over the number of sales and it could easily add another $25-$50 per unit.
Hell, simply supplying the ammo to T&E cans while in development could easily run into the tens of thousands of dollars per design. Cost average that over the number of sales and it could easily add another $25-$50 per unit.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
Form 1 your own. If you can build it your self that would keep the cost down. Online-metals.com has all the materials you need to build a very high quality suppressor. But with that said you need a approved Form 1 first!!! All NFA rules apply.
Form 1 your own. If you can build it your self that would keep the cost down. Online-metals.com has all the materials you need to build a very high quality suppressor. But with that said you need a approved Form 1 first!!! All NFA rules apply.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shooter19802003</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I will stick with ear plugs. They are cheaper than a gun muffler and do the same thing.</div></div>
Wrong. My silencers protect the hearing of <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">everyone</span></span> nearby. This is the kind of ignorance I have to battle to get the law changed so that I can use them legally in WA.
Ranb
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shooter19802003</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I will stick with ear plugs. They are cheaper than a gun muffler and do the same thing.</div></div>
Wrong. My silencers protect the hearing of <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">everyone</span></span> nearby. This is the kind of ignorance I have to battle to get the law changed so that I can use them legally in WA.
Ranb
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
This reminds me of the question, why is divorce so expensive?
... because it's worth it!
This reminds me of the question, why is divorce so expensive?
... because it's worth it!
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MECH1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Form 1 your own....
<span style="font-weight: bold">Onlinemetals.com</span> has all the materials you need to build a very high quality suppressor.</div></div>
Not to hijack, but online-metals.com doesn't exist. Try the above instead.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MECH1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Form 1 your own....
<span style="font-weight: bold">Onlinemetals.com</span> has all the materials you need to build a very high quality suppressor.</div></div>
Not to hijack, but online-metals.com doesn't exist. Try the above instead.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: csi:cyberspace</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MECH1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Form 1 your own....
<span style="font-weight: bold">Onlinemetals.com</span> has all the materials you need to build a very high quality suppressor.</div></div>
Not to hijack, but online-metals.com doesn't exist. Try the above instead. </div></div>
Linky.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: csi:cyberspace</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MECH1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Form 1 your own....
<span style="font-weight: bold">Onlinemetals.com</span> has all the materials you need to build a very high quality suppressor.</div></div>
Not to hijack, but online-metals.com doesn't exist. Try the above instead. </div></div>
Linky.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..
Hell with that, think how your $2k can would sound if it was welded...
Zev, your confusing custom set-up time with run time...welding, nothing comes close. </div></div>
They sound just fine to me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..
Hell with that, think how your $2k can would sound if it was welded...
Zev, your confusing custom set-up time with run time...welding, nothing comes close. </div></div>
They sound just fine to me.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
Suppressors are so expensive, because just like divorces they are worth it. As men we will pay anything to silence annoying things. Women or guns.
Suppressors are so expensive, because just like divorces they are worth it. As men we will pay anything to silence annoying things. Women or guns.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
I thought just the opposite. Supressors are cheap for what you get and they are certainly worth every penny. The bureaucratic maze to navigate is unfortunate.
I thought just the opposite. Supressors are cheap for what you get and they are certainly worth every penny. The bureaucratic maze to navigate is unfortunate.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Searcher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought just the opposite. Supressors are cheap for what you get and they are certainly worth every penny. The bureaucratic maze to navigate is unfortunate. </div></div>
It could go either way... I think with the proper knowledge, tooling and materials you would be VERY surprised how inexpensive they are to make.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Searcher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought just the opposite. Supressors are cheap for what you get and they are certainly worth every penny. The bureaucratic maze to navigate is unfortunate. </div></div>
It could go either way... I think with the proper knowledge, tooling and materials you would be VERY surprised how inexpensive they are to make.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
Moderators (Europe) are cheap, Suppressors (US) are expensive.
Go figure....
Moderators (Europe) are cheap, Suppressors (US) are expensive.
Go figure....
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Moderators (Europe) are cheap, Suppressors (US) are expensive.
Go figure.... </div></div>
Supply and demand...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Moderators (Europe) are cheap, Suppressors (US) are expensive.
Go figure.... </div></div>
Supply and demand...
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Moderators (Europe) are cheap, Suppressors (US) are expensive.
Go figure.... </div></div>
Supply and demand... </div></div>
Yup. I have a feeling if a mfr put a quality piece out at a reasonable cost the volume would make them happy they did.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Moderators (Europe) are cheap, Suppressors (US) are expensive.
Go figure.... </div></div>
Supply and demand... </div></div>
Yup. I have a feeling if a mfr put a quality piece out at a reasonable cost the volume would make them happy they did.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
No consumer is going to pay $50-100 for a cheaply made "throwaway" suppressor when there's also a $200 transfer tax that must be paid to the government. So, the only suppressors you'll find in the US will be decently made of quality materials, which means they will cost more than those found in the rest of the world.
No consumer is going to pay $50-100 for a cheaply made "throwaway" suppressor when there's also a $200 transfer tax that must be paid to the government. So, the only suppressors you'll find in the US will be decently made of quality materials, which means they will cost more than those found in the rest of the world.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
I have nothing against making money. You talk about margins and recouping costs. It is stupid for any business just to offer one product and expect to make money. If they made more than just suppressors than they could spread out the cost over their product lines. Or, turn out a bunch of them instead of such limited runs and go on a PR campaign and actually do some marketing. If you sell more, you make more. Not really rocket science here.
I also have nothing against suppressors, I wish I could afford one. However, I can buy a pair of earplugs that do the same thing for alot less money and hassle. I am not concerned about others. If you are at a range and you don't have hearing protection, you are an idiot. I don't have enough money to buy an expensive gun muffler to protect the hearing of others, that is their problem. My guns function just fine without a muffler. However, if they were affordable, I would buy a few....as would alot of other folks.
I think what drives alot of that market is image. Same with alot of other unneeded tacticool accessories. Alot of folks will pay alot of money to look cool and be the envy of other people. This may or may not apply to all folks who defend said accessories. To each their own....somebody has to buy that crap.
I have nothing against making money. You talk about margins and recouping costs. It is stupid for any business just to offer one product and expect to make money. If they made more than just suppressors than they could spread out the cost over their product lines. Or, turn out a bunch of them instead of such limited runs and go on a PR campaign and actually do some marketing. If you sell more, you make more. Not really rocket science here.
I also have nothing against suppressors, I wish I could afford one. However, I can buy a pair of earplugs that do the same thing for alot less money and hassle. I am not concerned about others. If you are at a range and you don't have hearing protection, you are an idiot. I don't have enough money to buy an expensive gun muffler to protect the hearing of others, that is their problem. My guns function just fine without a muffler. However, if they were affordable, I would buy a few....as would alot of other folks.
I think what drives alot of that market is image. Same with alot of other unneeded tacticool accessories. Alot of folks will pay alot of money to look cool and be the envy of other people. This may or may not apply to all folks who defend said accessories. To each their own....somebody has to buy that crap.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shooter19802003</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have nothing against making money. You talk about margins and recouping costs. It is stupid for any business just to offer one product and expect to make money. If they made more than just suppressors than they could spread out the cost over their product lines. Or, turn out a bunch of them instead of such limited runs and go on a PR campaign and actually do some marketing. If you sell more, you make more. Not really rocket science here.
I also have nothing against suppressors, I wish I could afford one. However, I can buy a pair of earplugs that do the same thing for alot less money and hassle. I am not concerned about others. If you are at a range and you don't have hearing protection, you are an idiot. I don't have enough money to buy an expensive gun muffler to protect the hearing of others, that is their problem. My guns function just fine without a muffler. However, if they were affordable, I would buy a few....as would alot of other folks.
I think what drives alot of that market is image. Same with alot of other unneeded tacticool accessories. Alot of folks will pay alot of money to look cool and be the envy of other people. This may or may not apply to all folks who defend said accessories. To each their own....somebody has to buy that crap. </div></div>
This statement is rife with short-sighted, money based allegations that are detrimental to everything from hearing loss to the longevity of shooting clubs around the country.
There are a few ranges I know of that allow rifle fire ONLY while suppressed because of the noise complaints of neighbors who moved into the area AFTER the range was built. Because of the litigious nature of the US, even the laws that say such a timeline disqualifies any kind of complaints in a court, there are still many lawsuits regarding noise pollution from ranges that were built decades before the complaining organization was present in the area. There is at least 1 club that I am aware of going through this such situation in my AO right now.
Just because you can't see the value in digging into your pocket to buy one doesn't mean that they aren't worthwhile or that they're only for the "tacticool" look.
Ear plugs do a reasonable job, but go talk to a bunch of guys who've spent 50 years shooting with ear plugs and you'll find large deficits in hearing on them. The suppressor assists in protecting the hearing of the shooter, even while running muffs/plugs.
Your statement is based solely in defense of your own pocket, not in a farther reaching understanding of the situation. Based upon your idea that the ear plugs do the same thing, you clearly don't understand the entire situation and how hearing loss amongst shooters (even those careful about wearing ear protection) is rampant later in life.
There are many volumes of medical research available via google on the subject of hearing loss, or you can spend time inside an actual library, but either way, the information is there to support the use of suppressors, especially on rifles fire.
Maybe you don't shoot enough to where it will be an issue later in life, though it doesn't take all that many rounds a month to show a trend in hearing loss of shooters.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shooter19802003</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have nothing against making money. You talk about margins and recouping costs. It is stupid for any business just to offer one product and expect to make money. If they made more than just suppressors than they could spread out the cost over their product lines. Or, turn out a bunch of them instead of such limited runs and go on a PR campaign and actually do some marketing. If you sell more, you make more. Not really rocket science here.
I also have nothing against suppressors, I wish I could afford one. However, I can buy a pair of earplugs that do the same thing for alot less money and hassle. I am not concerned about others. If you are at a range and you don't have hearing protection, you are an idiot. I don't have enough money to buy an expensive gun muffler to protect the hearing of others, that is their problem. My guns function just fine without a muffler. However, if they were affordable, I would buy a few....as would alot of other folks.
I think what drives alot of that market is image. Same with alot of other unneeded tacticool accessories. Alot of folks will pay alot of money to look cool and be the envy of other people. This may or may not apply to all folks who defend said accessories. To each their own....somebody has to buy that crap. </div></div>
This statement is rife with short-sighted, money based allegations that are detrimental to everything from hearing loss to the longevity of shooting clubs around the country.
There are a few ranges I know of that allow rifle fire ONLY while suppressed because of the noise complaints of neighbors who moved into the area AFTER the range was built. Because of the litigious nature of the US, even the laws that say such a timeline disqualifies any kind of complaints in a court, there are still many lawsuits regarding noise pollution from ranges that were built decades before the complaining organization was present in the area. There is at least 1 club that I am aware of going through this such situation in my AO right now.
Just because you can't see the value in digging into your pocket to buy one doesn't mean that they aren't worthwhile or that they're only for the "tacticool" look.
Ear plugs do a reasonable job, but go talk to a bunch of guys who've spent 50 years shooting with ear plugs and you'll find large deficits in hearing on them. The suppressor assists in protecting the hearing of the shooter, even while running muffs/plugs.
Your statement is based solely in defense of your own pocket, not in a farther reaching understanding of the situation. Based upon your idea that the ear plugs do the same thing, you clearly don't understand the entire situation and how hearing loss amongst shooters (even those careful about wearing ear protection) is rampant later in life.
There are many volumes of medical research available via google on the subject of hearing loss, or you can spend time inside an actual library, but either way, the information is there to support the use of suppressors, especially on rifles fire.
Maybe you don't shoot enough to where it will be an issue later in life, though it doesn't take all that many rounds a month to show a trend in hearing loss of shooters.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
..
Bohem is spot on.
Ear plugs, when worn in conjunction with ear muffs, thats right both of them on at the same time, still do not account for hearing loss caused by conductive sound carried through the jaw bone to the ears. If one is shotting high caliber rounds, "doubling-up" is a must, but in itself, not enough.
Suppression is the answer and should be approached by the active shooter as an investment in health. I only wish the governement undestood that and acted accordingly. Hearing Health? Suppression.
..
Bohem is spot on.
Ear plugs, when worn in conjunction with ear muffs, thats right both of them on at the same time, still do not account for hearing loss caused by conductive sound carried through the jaw bone to the ears. If one is shotting high caliber rounds, "doubling-up" is a must, but in itself, not enough.
Suppression is the answer and should be approached by the active shooter as an investment in health. I only wish the governement undestood that and acted accordingly. Hearing Health? Suppression.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
I realize this is a very elementary thought, but I still think it is crazy that one is required to have a muffler on his car to calm its bark, yet is found to be outside the law or at best, heavily regulated when attempting to utilize similar technology in the shooting sports.
I realize this is a very elementary thought, but I still think it is crazy that one is required to have a muffler on his car to calm its bark, yet is found to be outside the law or at best, heavily regulated when attempting to utilize similar technology in the shooting sports.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
..
Now you got it....
Biggest health care issue coming out of the Stans? Hearing Loss.
3/4 of all Brits returning home have some form of permanent hearing loss. U.S. forces? Probably around 50%, maybe higher.
http://www.hearinglossweb.com/Medical/Causes/nihl/mil/mil.htm#afg2
There is no civilian based sport in the U.S. that by any industry standard can cause as much physical harm to the operator as the shooting sports. Our national governmental response? Purposefully make the solution to the problem of hearing loss accessible to only SOME States and as expensive as possible. Why? Fear of illegal use for suppression. Suppressors used in crimes? So negligeable as to not be reported in the F.B.I. stats.
Way off topic here...
But, now you got it...
..
Now you got it....
Biggest health care issue coming out of the Stans? Hearing Loss.
3/4 of all Brits returning home have some form of permanent hearing loss. U.S. forces? Probably around 50%, maybe higher.
http://www.hearinglossweb.com/Medical/Causes/nihl/mil/mil.htm#afg2
There is no civilian based sport in the U.S. that by any industry standard can cause as much physical harm to the operator as the shooting sports. Our national governmental response? Purposefully make the solution to the problem of hearing loss accessible to only SOME States and as expensive as possible. Why? Fear of illegal use for suppression. Suppressors used in crimes? So negligeable as to not be reported in the F.B.I. stats.
Way off topic here...
But, now you got it...
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... Suppressors used in crimes? So negligeable as to not be reported in the F.B.I. stats.</div></div>
That's a classic statistic, one of my favorites.
And all these liberals wanting to shut down ranges because they have lived there for 2 weeks and the noise bothers them... WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY!!!
... but I digress, sorry.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... Suppressors used in crimes? So negligeable as to not be reported in the F.B.I. stats.</div></div>
That's a classic statistic, one of my favorites.
And all these liberals wanting to shut down ranges because they have lived there for 2 weeks and the noise bothers them... WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY!!!
... but I digress, sorry.
Re: Why are suppressors so expensive?
Only assassins have silencers... or in this thread, mall ninjas do too apparently.
Only assassins have silencers... or in this thread, mall ninjas do too apparently.
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