Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

[16 Bore]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

You'd think that after all the years of whining, some jack leg gunsmith would do a side by side shooting of "broke in" and not "broke in". Starting from 2 new barrels to say 5,000 rounds.

Since its never been done on paper, it gives credence to the BS of break-in.......

 

[ScottKenny]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

For a bolt-gun? Don't think it's necessary.

For a semi? I *know* my friends AR didn't cycle reliably until it had about 1500 rounds through it. My PSL had one issue in the first 100 rounds, hasn't had one since. But that's not barrel break-in, that's gas system and action polishing.

 

[Jaybird39]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

Marduk185
If you don't know differant gals like differant things you need more women.Whores don't count.

 

[carbinero]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

My first "long range" rifle is also the first gun I've had which I haven't cleaned since the first round fired, thanks to you at the Hide. Since then, maybe 250 rounds later, I do run the boresnake down it most range days, just so I don't feel so guilty. I can tell it shoots better than I do, since when I am in the groove--and you know how that feels--it's consistently 1/2" at 100 off the sandbag and 4" at 200 using skinny curtain rods as shooting sticks. My spotter says I hit or miss the steel animals in the same spot at 330, 440, and 550. It's a 700 varmint .308 with the cheap stock, and I don't think I'll break out the cleaner until it stops shooting better than I think it should. Oh, I did use WeaponShield to clean it when I bought it, but never did spend the money I originally planned to, on a fancy bore guide. Thanks y'all.

 

[rifleman1981]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

+ 1 for bullshit on the break in period, I have had several different custom rifled built, none of whitch were cleaned like they should have been, and at least two that were and are sub moa at 1000 yards

 

[tullius]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMOK!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...A superb read, especially the <span style="text-decoration: underline">fact</span> that a bullet STARTS and STOPS up to 3 times during the course of the firing cycle.</div></div>

Really? Do tell.

In .308 Win at least, the primer alone detonating does NOT get the bullet jammed in the lands on a standard production gun.

 

[marduk185]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jaybird39</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Marduk185
If you don't know differant gals like differant things you need more women.Whores don't count. </div></div>
really, that eliminates pretty much everyone...

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

so.....if i read all of this correctly I SHOULD NOT have shot 600 rounds of greek surplus through my GAP rifle in 20 minutes?

 

[vman]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

LOL yes you are correct sir

 

[XTR]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

I've read a number of posts commenting that the decision to clean or not is based on whether or not the barrel is getting copper fouling.

Other than deteriorated accuracy, how do you tell if your barrel is fouling?

 

[vman]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

XTR besides busted accuracy, if you run a patch thru and its coming out blue then you have fouling.

If you clean it with a standard procedure and patches are still coming out blue then its heavy fouling.

Provided you dont run moly or smooth kote, you should be getting a slight tinge of blue on your cleans anyway.

 

[XTR]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

Ok, that I was familiar with, I was wondering if there was some other cue.

 

[dave7mm]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

Break in and Cleaning


The age old question, "Breaking in the New Barrel". Opinions very a lot here, and this is a very subjective topic. For the most part, the only thing you are breaking in, is the throat area of the barrel. The nicer the finish that the Finish Reamer or Throating Reamer leaves, the faster the throat will break in.

Shoot one round and clean for the first two rounds individually. Look to see what the barrel is telling you. If I'm getting little to no copper out of it, I sit down and shoot the gun. Say 4 - 5 round groups and then clean. If the barrel cleans easily and shoots well, we consider it done.

If the barrel shows some copper or is taking a little longer to clean after the first two, shoot a group of 3 rounds and clean. Then a group of 5 and clean.

After you shoot the 3rd group and 5th group, watch how long it takes to clean. Also notice your group sizes. If the group sizes are good and the cleaning is getting easier or is staying the same, then shoot 4 - 5 round groups.

If fouling appears to be heavy and taking a while to clean, notice your group sizes. If group sizes are good and not going sour, you don't have a fouling problem. Some barrels will clean easier than others. Some barrels may take a little longer to break in. Remember the throat. Fouling can start all the way from here. We have noticed sometimes that even up to approximately 100 rounds, a barrel can show signs of a lot of copper, but it still shoots really well and then for no apparent reason, you will notice little to no copper and it will clean really easy.

This is meant as guide lines only. There is no hard and fast rule for breaking in a barrel.

Bartlein Barrels, Inc.




dave

 

[Clark]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

The real truth about moly coated bullets by Walt Berger
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Q: Should I shoot Moly Coated bullets?
A:
Any shooter who goes through a lot of rounds during a shooting session
should use Moly Coated bullets. Moly is a dry lubricant that allows you
to shoot more rounds before you have to clean. Since you get less
fouling using Moly Coated bullets the accuracy level of your load will
last longer within a shooting session. If your load did not shoot
without Moly, adding Moly will not make your load shoot. Moly does not
eliminate the need to clean your barrel. You just don't have to clean as
often. Moly will reduce the pressure of your load, which will result in
a slight loss of velocity. In most situations a little more powder can
be added to get you right back to the velocity you want to shoot. If you
are shooting a compressed load with non-Moly bullets you may not be able
to add more powder. It has not been conclusively proven that premium
accuracy life of a barrel will be extended using Moly. However, since
you don't have to clean as often due to reduced fouling premium accuracy
during a particular shooting session does last longer.

Q: If I use Moly Coated bullets how should I clean my barrel?
A:
The following is one way to clean when using Moly Coated bullets. It is
not likely the only way you can clean if you are using Moly Coated bullets.
1. Push one patch wet with Kroil Oil through the barrel
2. Repeat step 1.
3. Push one dry patch through the barrel.
4. Repeat step 3.
5. Push one patch wet with Butch's Bore Shine through the barrel.
6. Repeat step 5.
7. Let the barrel soak for 5 to 10 minutes.
8. Push one dry patch through the barrel.
9. Repeat step 8.
10. Using short strokes back and forth push one patch wet with USP or JB
Bore Paste through the barrel.
11. Push one patch wet with Kroil through the barrel.
12. Repeat step 11 twice.
13. Push one dry patch through the barrel.
14. Repeat step 13 three times.
15. Use bore scope or visually inspect muzzle for copper fouling.
16. If copper is present repeat steps 10 through 15.
17. If you are storing the rifle push one patch wet with quality gun oil
through the barrel.

Q: How do I break in a barrel using Moly Coated bullets?
A: Moly Coated bullets will not shoot consistently until a barrel is
properly broken in with Moly Coated bullets. Walt Berger has found the
following procedure to work best in his barrels.
For a new barrel:

1. Shoot one Moly Coated bullet then clean using the Moly Coated
cleaning procedure listed above.
2. Repeat step 1 five times.
3. Shoot three Moly Coated bullets then clean using the Moly Coated
cleaning procedure listed above.
4. Repeat step 3 five times.

For a broken in barrel:

1. Thoroughly clean the barrel.
2. Shoot ten Moly Coated bullets then clean using the Moly Coated
cleaning procedure listed above.

Your barrel is now ready to shoot Moly Coated bullets. </div></div>

I never believed in barrel break in.

In 2009 I put a Lothar Walther barrel that is factory lapped on a VZ24 action.

It got Copper fouling too easy. Maybe I got some bluing in the bore. Anyway, I have been forced to break it in until it stopped fouling.

 

[Jason5R]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

+1 For barrel break-in BS. Just maintained my rifle after every range session. Shot a .51 MOA group at 600yds yesterday. Had the rifle about 9 months now and at ~150 round count.

 

[x ring accuracy]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

I have built quite a few rifles for a living and this is my take:
Break in proceedures are what you make of them. Some people swear by them, some swear at them. What I have found that on a brand new barrel or rechambered barrel, the first 10 shots are scattered in a small group. After that, the next 10 shots come right into a great group. What this means to me is that a small amount of "break-in" by the rounds passing thru the end of the chamber helps. Be warned that ALOT of good barrels have been ruined by cleaning but none have been tortured as bad by just shooting and cleaning when needed.

 

[carbinero]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

I sent my buddy that link from the builder (schumann?) who is critical of ammonia, since I gave him a bottle of Sweet's for a present last year. He said he could be talked into a quick scrub and light lube anyhow, as I have been telling him about my decision not to clean...this was his detailed response, just FYI, it's over my head:

"Interesting chemistry comments. Chlorine gas was incredibly corrosive in WWI because in the presence of water, it will steal an electron from the very stressed OH bond and create HCl, or hydrochloric acid. What are your lungs? Moist bags with lots of little pockets to capture air like chlorine gas. Those poor soldiers were essentially inhaling acid. their lungs would just dissolve while they were breathing.

"This has nothing to do with other Chloride compounds necessarily, unless they also were de facto HCl producers when put into contact with your substrate. You can't just say that Cl is corrosive all by itself. In fact, when saturated onto a Polyethylene chain, you get PVC, which is inert and non corrosive. The problem is that if they did act as an acid, they would attack the grain boundaries of your alloys and polychrystalline metals that your gun barrel is likely made out of and certainly the chromoly lining. When it finds a grain boundary and starts to dig, you see pitting. If it was uniform chrystal, the entire surface would simple get smaller where ever is came in to contact, much like a melting ice cube, but more angular. Pitting is always the result of grain boundary erosion. Now what he doesn't say here is that water itself is an amazingly corrosive material and HCl doesn't function without it."

 

[snommittj]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave7mm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Break in and Cleaning


The age old question, "Breaking in the New Barrel". Opinions very a lot here, and this is a very subjective topic. For the most part, the only thing you are breaking in, is the throat area of the barrel. The nicer the finish that the Finish Reamer or Throating Reamer leaves, the faster the throat will break in.

Shoot one round and clean for the first two rounds individually. Look to see what the barrel is telling you. If I'm getting little to no copper out of it, I sit down and shoot the gun. Say 4 - 5 round groups and then clean. If the barrel cleans easily and shoots well, we consider it done.

If the barrel shows some copper or is taking a little longer to clean after the first two, shoot a group of 3 rounds and clean. Then a group of 5 and clean.

After you shoot the 3rd group and 5th group, watch how long it takes to clean. Also notice your group sizes. If the group sizes are good and the cleaning is getting easier or is staying the same, then shoot 4 - 5 round groups.

If fouling appears to be heavy and taking a while to clean, notice your group sizes. If group sizes are good and not going sour, you don't have a fouling problem. Some barrels will clean easier than others. Some barrels may take a little longer to break in. Remember the throat. Fouling can start all the way from here. We have noticed sometimes that even up to approximately 100 rounds, a barrel can show signs of a lot of copper, but it still shoots really well and then for no apparent reason, you will notice little to no copper and it will clean really easy.

This is meant as guide lines only. There is no hard and fast rule for breaking in a barrel.

Bartlein Barrels, Inc.




dave </div></div>



+1
The barrel, or specifically the throat, will tell you what it needs. Read the patches.

 

[cuffm4615]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

WOW, I change my mind with every new write up

 

[308isgreat]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

Moly on the bullets and in the barrels for me. No break in, no cleaning.

 

[jakhamr81]

Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

From the Krieger web site:

"BREAK-IN & CLEANING

With any premium barrel that has been finish lapped -- such as your Krieger Barrel --, the lay or direction of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, so fouling is minimal. This is true of any properly finish-lapped barrel regardless of how it is rifled. If it is not finish-lapped, there will be reamer marks left in the bore that are directly across the direction of the bullet travel. This occurs even in a button-rifled barrel as the button cannot completely iron out these reamer marks.

Because the lay of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, very little is done to the bore during break-in, but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, by necessity there are reamer marks left in the throat that are across the lands, i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. In a new barrel they are very distinct; much like the teeth on a very fine file. When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is released into the gas which at this temperature and pressure is actually a plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this gas and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore when it is actually for the most part the new throat. If this copper is allowed to stay in the bore, and subsequent bullets and deposits are fired over it; copper which adheres well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when we break in a barrel, our goal is to get the throat polished without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the "fire-one-shot-and-clean" procedure.

Barrels will vary slightly in how many rounds they take to break in because of things like slightly different machinability of the steel, or steel chemistry, or the condition of the chambering reamer, etc. . . For example a chrome moly barrel may take longer to break in than stainless steel because it is more abrasion resistant even though it is the same hardness. Also chrome moly has a little more of an affinity for copper than stainless steel so it will usually show a little more "color" if you are using a chemical cleaner. (Chrome moly and stainless steel are different materials with some things in common and others different.) Rim Fire barrels can take an extremely long time to break in -- sometimes requiring several hundred rounds or more. But cleaning can be lengthened to every 25-50 rounds. The break-in procedure and the clearing procedure are really the same except for the frequency. Remember the goal is to get or keep the barrel clean while polishing out the throat.

Finally, the best way to break-in the barrel is to observe when the barrel is broken in; i.e. when the fouling is reduced. This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as many owners report practically no fouling after the first few shots, and more break-in would be pointless. Conversely, if more is required, a set number would not address that either. Besides, cleaning is not a completely benign procedure so it should be done carefully and no more than necessary."

If I'm going to spend the money on a Kreiger I'm going to follow their recommended procedures. They might have an idea of what they are talking about, I'm just saying.