Why can I see my heartbeat in the scope

[Punkur67]

I have noticed that I can see my heartbeat pushing the rifle with some of my stocks. Most of my rifles i am rock solid but a few of my rifles I can watch the crosshairs pulse left to right. I feel pretty confident in a fairly consistent check weld on each stock. Anyone else have a similar issue? Any recommendations to remedy this? Should I just swap out those stocks that I have issues with?

I am assuming I am making contact with the stock an artery in my face.

 

[hereinaz]

How hard do you mash your face onto the gun?

I think I get it more from my chest arm. Maybe jugular?

 

[Punkur67]

How hard do you mash your face onto the gun?

I think I get it more from my chest arm. Maybe jugular?

Basically just rest the weight of my head on the stock. I can shoot one rifle all day without issues, grab another one and instantly see my heartbeat, then grab another and be good to go again. My Remington 700 SPS 30-06 seems to be the worst of them all.

 

[black5.3]

I notice it sometimes on my lighter guns... i also think its when im not setup correctly behind the gun or not in the correct spot on my shoulder.. thats just things i have noticed for myself personally.

 

[Underaverage]

Have you tried turning your heart off and on again?

 

[Kickin45]

Breathing and relaxing. Also, coffee plays a HUGE part in it.
I’ve had several days over the years at the range where I could not get my heartbeat to stop beating so hard, but that’s when you get real world practice.

 

[Underaverage]

Breathing and relaxing. Also, coffee plays a HUGE part in it.
I’ve had several days over the years at the range where I could not get my heartbeat to stop beating so hard, but that’s when you get real world practice.

On a serious note, he's definitely on to something there. Blood pressure can fluctuate day to day, especially if you eat/drink certain things (like coffee; caffeine definitely has an impact). That could be an additional variable to pay attention to.

 

[Blue72]

 

[Punkur67]

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My most noticeable rifle is my 30-06 with a 3-9 x 40 leupold.

 

[Blue72]

My most noticeable rifle is my 30-06 with a 3-9 x 40 leupold.

Well if your that sensitive. I know some competition shooters take beta blockers to control their heartbeat

 

[Punkur67]

Well if your that sensitive. I know some competition shooters take beta blockers to control their heartbeat

Like I said above this is only with certain rifles. I can shoot 25 rounds from my 300wm with zero issue. Then grab my 30-06 and see my heartbeat. Pick up another rifle and the issue goes away. Seems like some stocks contact my face diffent causing the problem. I may just need to change stocks on the rifles that cause me problems

 

[want2learn]

Most commonly one would identify respiratory excursions as challenging, however it sounds like you've likely already excluded that source. I bet a lot has to so with how differently your anatomy interacts or conforms with the different stock geometries. That said, we can perhaps identify vascular elements in the face which are superficial, pulsatile (arteries) and potentially in contact with a rifle stock. Venous sources such as the jugular vein are considered low pressure, softer structures which are comparatively easy to compress and feeling pulsatile transmission from them to the skin would be rather unlikely i would imagine.

The first drawing shows the vascular supply to the face. The vessel that might well fit those characteristics would likely be the facial artery as it wraps around the jaw, on a thin person it can easily be palpated. The transverse facial artery is pretty deep and so i can't imagine this might cause what you're describing.. The angular vessels by the nose are also easily palpated but i can't imagine you're setting that part onto the comb of the stock...

Another possible source of transmitted arterial pulsation is likely derived from the thoracic distribution, below the clavicle numbers 2 and 3 send off some superficial branches that again on thin individuals you can sometimes palpate.

...a third possibility is potentially elicited from with the upper extremity where several easily palpable and large vessels are located. They run from your inner arm and arm pit (axilla) all the way down to the wrist, hand and even fingers....most all are quite palpable.

 

[Punkur67]

Most commonly one would identify respiratory excursions as challenging, however it sounds like you've likely already excluded that source. I bet a lot has to so with how differently your anatomy interacts with the different stocks. That said, we can perhaps identify vascular elements in the face which are superficial, pulsatile (arteries) and potentially in contact with a rifle stock. Venous (low pressure, softer vessels) would be tougher to feel transmission and these vessels are easily compressed.

The first drawing shows the vascular supply to the face. The vessel that might well fit those characteristics would likely be the facial artery as it wraps around the jaw, on a thin person it can easily be palpated. The transverse facial artery is pretty deep and so i can't imagine this might cause what you're describing.. The angular vessels by the nose are also easily palpated but i can't imagine you're setting that part onto the comb of the stock...

Another possible source of transmitted arterial pulsation is likely derived from the thoracic distribution, below the clavicle numbers 2 and 3 send off some superficial branches that again on thin individuals you can sometimes palpate.

...a third possibility is potentially elicited from with the upper extremity where several easily palpable and large vessels are located. They run from your inner arm and arm pit (axilla) all the way down to the wrist and are quite easy to palpate.
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I think this is my problem. I guess I should just gain some fat in my face to cushion this. haha

 

[want2learn]

i guess that raises another interesting question.....how hard should one ideally press their face, chest and extremity into the stock?

 

[Reverie Ranges]

So that's where the Superior Labia is suppost to be located...
Checked your BP lately? Need to increase Meds? Pictures of naked women as targets?
Just checking for other influences...

 

[Blue72]

i guess that raises another interesting question.....how hard should one ideally press their face, chest and extremity into the stock?

Ideally no muscles should be used when shooting

 

[Darlington_02]

A lot of good possibilities have been brought up. I have a few questions if it’s alright....
What style stock/chassis are you using when you notice? Do you notice it at close distances/low magnification, or long distances/high magnification?
Sometime body position can play a key role in this.
When shooting, do you use a traditional “grip” or do you “stack” the thumb? I have heard of ppl having similar problems shooting at distance when “gripping” the stock. There is a vein in between your thumb and index finger that, if enough pressure is applied to grip the stock, can influence the reticle ever so slightly. A thumb over/stacked grip allows the shooter to focus on a clean trigger press rather than squeezing the rifle.... just my 2 cents!

 

[JCHayes]

I do that some days. Most days rock solid. Seems to get bad when BP goes up. Too much alcohol the night before seems to affect it.

 

[want2learn]

makes a lot of sense
best to take care of these medical factors

 

[Carlos Danger]

I've trained myself to be able to stop my heart for 5-10 seconds when ready to pull the trigger.

 

[want2learn]

fascinating, i've read about people who could slow their heart rate down with meditation for example

and of course reducing requisite beats per minute with physical fitness / athleticism and diving

there are abnormal heart rhythms that have pauses as well but they're generally considered pathologic

 

[Punkur67]

A lot of good possibilities have been brought up. I have a few questions if it’s alright....
What style stock/chassis are you using when you notice? Do you notice it at close distances/low magnification, or long distances/high magnification?
Sometime body position can play a key role in this.
When shooting, do you use a traditional “grip” or do you “stack” the thumb? I have heard of ppl having similar problems shooting at distance when “gripping” the stock. There is a vein in between your thumb and index finger that, if enough pressure is applied to grip the stock, can influence the reticle ever so slightly. A thumb over/stacked grip allows the shooter to focus on a clean trigger press rather than squeezing the rifle.... just my 2 cents!

This is the rifle I notice the most issues

It seems to be more noticeable 200 yards or closer. I typically place my thumb on the top of the stock, not wrapped around the back

 

[want2learn]

Interesting. so many contributing factors to consider. are the 2 rifle stocks very different in configuration and dimension?

perhaps at the end of the day you might consider going to the stock configuration that you shoot well with.

of course not neglecting critical health issues (BP, alcohol) as well as addressing magnification etc.

 

[JCHayes]

I've trained myself to be able to stop my heart for 5-10 seconds when ready to pull the trigger.

You might want to invest in a pacemaker in case your heart doesn't want to restart.

 

[timbrline]

Sort curious on this one. What’s the rifle stock you notice it least on? Also a narrow, straight comb?
I see mine once in a while but usually at work when we do stress shoots. Run up a hill, kettle bell swings, squats and jump on a gun. It’s to create the exact circumstance your looking to avoid. In documenting it, our average shooter drops to about 70% their norm effectiveness (prone), and MUCH less than that when shooting positional... its worth solving if you have the luxury of doing so.

I’d tend to lean toward the suggestions above about contact (face rests different on different stocks, or a portion of your arm/chest contacts one and not another)....height off eye above scope center causing your cheek weld to be different... lots probably obvious reasons ...once you figure it out, it’ll be obvious!!! Haaaa..

interesting issue though.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Most commonly one would identify respiratory excursions as challenging, however it sounds like you've likely already excluded that source. I bet a lot has to so with how differently your anatomy interacts or conforms with the different stock geometries. That said, we can perhaps identify vascular elements in the face which are superficial, pulsatile (arteries) and potentially in contact with a rifle stock. Venous sources such as the jugular vein are considered low pressure, softer structures which are comparatively easy to compress and feeling pulsatile transmission from them to the skin would be rather unlikely i would imagine.

The first drawing shows the vascular supply to the face. The vessel that might well fit those characteristics would likely be the facial artery as it wraps around the jaw, on a thin person it can easily be palpated. The transverse facial artery is pretty deep and so i can't imagine this might cause what you're describing.. The angular vessels by the nose are also easily palpated but i can't imagine you're setting that part onto the comb of the stock...

Another possible source of transmitted arterial pulsation is likely derived from the thoracic distribution, below the clavicle numbers 2 and 3 send off some superficial branches that again on thin individuals you can sometimes palpate.

...a third possibility is potentially elicited from with the upper extremity where several easily palpable and large vessels are located. They run from your inner arm and arm pit (axilla) all the way down to the wrist, hand and even fingers....most all are quite palpable.
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I find this to be the most common issue if the shooter hasn’t been doing something to get their heart rate up.

Usually simple repositioning in the shoulder or cheek alleviates the reticle movement.

 

[JINKSTER]

When I'm bench or prone and see the slight straight up and down movement of my crosshairs?...that tells me I have too much tension going on somewhere be it cheek to stock or butt to shoulder or both and that tells me I just need to "Relax It All" and "Become Dead" (weight) and take it like a man where the surprise is?...the more tense I am?...the more the recoil beats me up where the more relaxed I am?...the less the recoil beats me up because I've allowed myself to relax and roll with the punch however?...

^^THIS^^ is an impossibility when using shooting positions that require the shooter to support the full weight of the firearm which in turn requires that a certain amount of tension has to exist between the shooter and firearm to maintain position and this is where "Technique" comes into play where it becomes a matter of timing as follows...

As I slow everything down by taking 3 deep breaths?...those 3 deep breaths not only oxygenate me but also seems to allow me to synch my heart rate with my breath rate where I can actually feel about 4 beats per inhale and 4 beats per exhale take place where at the beginning of that final exhale?...I also begin tensioning my trigger for a slow consistent squeeze where that little pulse bounce is reduced to nothing more than a minor distraction that I completely ignore beeeeecause?....

as long as I'm as consistent as that pulse bounce is in the execution of my shot?...the bullet impacts the point I've adjusted my sight to.

The elements are there to be managed but first they have to be recognized which takes a bit of practice but after that?...

it's just a matter of time management and you're not predicting the shot when it goes off...that part still comes across as a surprise because 'you already set the timer' on the shot in a "Set it & Forget it" way when you began your slow squeeze at the beginning of your final exhale.

Disclaimer: I'm no pro...I'm just sharing what works for me in hopes that it might help someone else.

 

[Dthomas3523]

When I'm bench or prone and see the slight straight up and down movement of my crosshairs?...that tells me I have too much tension going on somewhere be it cheek to stock or butt to shoulder or both and that tells me I just need to "Relax It All" and "Become Dead" (weight) and take it like a man where the surprise is?...the more tense I am?...the more the recoil beats me up where the more relaxed I am?...the less the recoil beats me up because I've allowed myself to relax and roll with the punch however?...

^^THIS^^ is an impossibility when using shooting positions that require the shooter to support the full weight of the firearm which in turn requires that a certain amount of tension has to exist between the shooter and firearm to maintain position and this is where "Technique" comes into play where it becomes a matter of timing as follows...

As I slow everything down by taking 3 deep breaths?...those 3 deep breaths not only oxygenate me but also seems to allow me to synch my heart rate with my breath rate where I can actually feel about 4 beats per inhale and 4 beats per exhale take place where at the beginning of that final exhale?...I also begin tensioning my trigger for a slow consistent squeeze where that little pulse bounce is reduced to nothing more than a minor distraction that I completely ignore beeeeecause?....

as long as I'm as consistent as that pulse bounce is in the execution of my shot?...the bullet impacts the point I've adjusted my sight to.

The elements are there to be managed but first they have to be recognized which takes a bit of practice but after that?...

it's just a matter of time management and you're not predicting the shot when it goes off...that part still comes across as a surprise because 'you already set the timer' on the shot in a "Set it & Forget it" way when you began your slow squeeze at the beginning of your final exhale.

Disclaimer: I'm no pro...I'm just sharing what works for me in hopes that it might help someone else.

If you’re seeing your heartbeat in the reticle, unless you’ve been running around, you aren’t behind the rifle properly.

 

[Landon4]

Last match I was at we were at a stage shooting off a barricade and I was a little wobbly of course we had a pretty good breeze blowing but some of it was me, another more experienced shooter in our squad had me just push the rifle more into the barricade with my barricade block on my arca rail and get my cheek weld right but not put my shoulder into the butt of the rifle and I cleaned the rest of the targets, there was no movement in my crosshairs.

 

[JINKSTER]

If you’re seeing your heartbeat in the reticle, unless you’ve been running around, you aren’t behind the rifle properly.

"THAT" is a pretty broad statement...can you elaborate?

 

[Dthomas3523]

"THAT" is a pretty broad statement...can you elaborate?

An easy comparison, you can generally only feel your pulse with your fingers on/near an artery.

That’s with your fingers. Now you’re feeling it enough on a rifle and to move your reticle. Means you have the rifle in your shoulder against an artery or your face mashed down enough to feel the pulse.

Move your face or the rifle slightly and it goes away.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Most of the time, it’s because the shooter has the butt in the soft spot just inside the shoulder and not in closer to the chest/center of their body.

 

[JINKSTER]

An easy comparison, you can generally only feel your pulse with your fingers on/near an artery.

That’s with your fingers. Now you’re feeling it enough on a rifle and to move your reticle. Means you have the rifle in your shoulder against an artery or your face mashed down enough to feel the pulse.

Move your face or the rifle slightly and it goes away.

Most of the time, it’s because the shooter has the butt in the soft spot just inside the shoulder and not in closer to the chest/center of their body.

Sorry but I just can't buy that because?...

A: There's a very defined spot my cheek needs to be on the rifle which is responsible for locating my eye both directly behind the scope and a very precise distance away from it so not much fudge room there and?....

B: I really don't get how moving the rifle butt closer to my heart will reduce the effects of my heartbeat...we're not talking about arteries or taking someones pulse here...heck...if you can't place a hand anywhere on your chest and feel your heartbeat pulsating?...I might suggest calling 911 immediately while you still can.

This topic is neither new nor unique and is/has been a hot topic on many rifle forums...just google up "Why can I see my heartbeat in my scope?"

It seems to me that there is no blanket statement that can be a fix all because folks come in all sorts of shapes, sizes and physical condition where some have large heads and narrow shoulders while others have broad shoulders and short arms while some simply have hearts that beat harder than others so while moving things around may work for you?...others seem to have worked on developing techniques for managing things like timing breath, pulse and trigger management because for them?...it wasn't a matter they could just jockey things around and make it go away.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Sorry but I just can't buy that because?...

A: There's a very defined spot my cheek needs to be on the rifle which is responsible for locating my eye both directly behind the scope and a very precise distance away from it so not much fudge room there and?....

B: I really don't get how moving the rifle butt closer to my heart will reduce the effects of my heartbeat...we're not talking about arteries or taking someones pulse here...heck...if you can't place a hand anywhere on your chest and feel your heartbeat pulsating?...I might suggest calling 911 immediately while you still can.

This topic is neither new nor unique and is/has been a hot topic on many rifle forums...just google up "Why can I see my heartbeat in my scope?"

It seems to me that there is no blanket statement that can be a fix all because folks come in all sorts of shapes, sizes and physical condition where some have large heads and narrow shoulders while others have broad shoulders and short arms while some simply have hearts that beat harder than others so while moving things around may work for you?...others seem to have worked on developing techniques for managing things like timing breath, pulse and trigger management because for them?...it wasn't a matter they could just jockey things around and make it go away.

Ok dude. This is at least the third topic where you’ve attempted to insert your circa 1980 knowledge.

Everyone can get the rifle into their collarbone/chest. You will not feel your heartbeat in the optic as you won’t be pulling it back into an artery. It has nothing to do with the distance to your heart.

There’s a reason ZERO modern courses talk about heartbeat. You are almost literally quoting manuals and books from the 90’s or before.

 

[Dthomas3523]

If you continue to propagate outdated/wrong info, you’ll find yourself unable to continue to post.


Read more, post less, and learn something modern.

 

[THEIS]

If you continue to propagate outdated/wrong info, you’ll find yourself unable to continue to post.


Read more, post less, and learn something modern.

Hi,

And remember to use ultra low rings so you don't get shot in the head due to your scope being too high.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Dthomas3523]

And stop using “well people have tried to work around it.”

People also “break in” barrels and don’t clean until “accuracy falls off” among a plethora of other shit that is just not correct. Just because a practice (or item) exists does not mean it is correct.

Tomorrow I could invent a square wheel and say “it exists, therefore it is correct.” And I’d still be completely full of shit.

 

[seanh]

Shoot between heartbeats when the crosshairs fall to the bottom. If you're still struggling, learn relaxation / meditation techniques to lower your heart rate.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Shoot between heartbeats when the crosshairs fall to the bottom. If you're still struggling, learn relaxation / meditation techniques to lower your heart rate.

Again, if you’re seeing your heartbeat, and not winded from running or something, you’re doing it wrong.

No shooting between beats, no meditation. Get the rifle shouldered properly and you won’t see it.