I bought a disk with a ball bearing in it for mine. Can’t remember where. Helped some but then I went to a larger bolt handle and greased things up good in the cocking mechanism that TX_Aggie described perfectly as being the issue.
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Why do people seem down on Savage rifles?
- Thread starter tobylazur
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I bought a disk with a ball bearing in it for mine. Can’t remember where. Helped some but then I went to a larger bolt handle and greased things up good in the cocking mechanism that TX_Aggie described perfectly as being the issue.
LOL! Says the guy with 9 posts (all in this thread)...and registered for 8 months. Smh...way to make an intro bro...
My rifle has a terrible bolt lift compared to most brands. Even after cleaning up the big bump on the cocking ramp described earlier and polishing the whole ramp to a mirror finish and greasing.
To say savages don't have a heavier bolt lift than other rifles (at least in their factory confoguration) is patently false.
To say savages don't have a heavier bolt lift than other rifles (at least in their factory confoguration) is patently false.
Agreed.
There's a table in this article on Savage Shooters Forum that compares the effect of adding a single bearing (the mod that @MarinePMI and @Max mentioned) vs multiple bearings/thrust bearing vs re-timing the cocking sequence, vs doing both. According to the article, the bearing mods help some but work best if used along with timing the bolt.
It's a short read, about 1 page, but is interesting.
Absolutely right.
Also your count is not accurate....you missed 1
Oh no i am being personally attacked !!
I suddenly can't open the bolt on my savage!!
Anybody have a wet nap?
Reading though this thread makes me think the average member here is 16 yrs/old.
I have several Savage rifles and a slug gun. All but one have needed attention of some sort to function somewhat reliably. I started shooting Border Wars matches this year with a modified Savage. I had a few finishes in the top 20 and even managed ninth once. Even with significant modifications the thing is still not 100% reliable. When I "built" it (screwed it together), I was dead set on using prefit barrels. The rpr hadn't come out and Tikka prefit options were limited and cost twice what a Criterion from NSS does. At that time it would have been financially irresponsible for me to get a nicer gun. I have $1000 invested in the Savage. With the Criterion barrels it is a half to three quarter minute gun reliably. It would probably be better with a better shooter. If I was going to try to shoot matches on a budget now I would start with a Howa or a Tikka to build off of or maybe a Bergara HMR if I was going to buy it and shoot it. When run hard Savages just don't cut it. I still lose points often due to clearing rounds that didn't eject on the clock. Yes, you can shoot a Savage in matches. Yes, you can run them hard. Yes, they WILL HOLD YOU BACK if you are looking to be competitive in a game where one more hit on the clock could potentially advance you two or three places. There would be a lot less arguing in threads like this if people would just get off the internet and go shoot. In some ways the Savage problems are "overblown" to an extent, but it is very frustrating to travel, pay for a motel room, and clear stoppages all day just to place 16th and leave feeling like you could have done a lot better if you hadn't timed out because the gun wouldn't eject. Just because it is possible for a good shooter to win a match with a Savage doesn't mean everyone should go buy one. Unless you are wanting to plink at long range for cheap there are better options. For a gun to shoot PRS style matches I will not build another one on a Savage action. They aren't worth the trouble to save a little bit of money.
And too mention, that a few points higher could get you a prize off the table worth 2-3 times what a Savage is worth. I've been there concerning the points thing, not due to malfunctions, I don't shoot a Savage and my rifles run well, but it was due to mental mistakes, then watching a guy with a few more points walk off with the prize I had hoped for, OUCH, it can get painful!
Interesting. I have just burned out my OEM Savage 10 .308 barrel with around 5000 hot rounds and I never had a failure. It has been in an AICS chassis for a three years now and with the AI mags I run 100 yard dot drills and other timed drills with 10 round mags. I have also hunted with it, firing follow ups shots under pressure. My friends tell me I run a bolt action like a semi-auto under pressure. I make hits out to 1200 yards consistently. I always thought the bolt lift issue was my hot loads until I investgated further. The longer handle, ball bearing disk and some grease did the trick for me.
I’m getting ready to rebarrel with a Criterion 6.5 creedmoor. Disappointing, at this juncture, to learn that I have been running a piece of shit. ? Guess, if I can run a piece of shit, I’m doing something right.
If you are bothered by someone criticizing your choice of weapon or scope etc. you have bigger issues to deal with......
I’m getting ready to rebarrel with a Criterion 6.5 creedmoor. Disappointing, at this juncture, to learn that I have been running a piece of shit. ? Guess, if I can run a piece of shit, I’m doing something right.
If you are bothered by someone criticizing your choice of weapon or scope etc. you have bigger issues to deal with......
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Seriously, good for you for not having any reliability issues. I mean that. Your Puritan, frugal ancestor would be proud, lol. I sincerely respect people that compete with a Savage, like the gent that posted above you. It sucks leaving points on the board due to faulty equipment.
Again, some Savage's can really shoot. People get down on them because even if YOU have never had an issue, many have. Shouldn't challenge anyone's ego or hurt feelings. It's just that simple. You are rolling the dice with reliability buying a Savage.
Yeah man, but were you running it "hard"?!? Lol you know, running the bolt faster than the mechanical mechanisms are capable of operating. Usually found in bump firing semi autos. Were you running it that "hard"? Because that is the kind of "hard" you need.
My model 10 hasnt had a failure yet either. After thousands of rounds. Fed, extracted and ejected every time. But, I need to run it HARD! Real hard.
I have a savage 110fp in 300wm that has been a rock from day one including the aquuisition of the TGR #3 in the world for the Schimatar Oryx.
Other than the center heart and neck shots taken at 100 and 200 yarss to anchor that Oryx have been head shots on whitetail and it will deliver consistent 5 shot groups in the .5" to .625" range at 200 yards with factory Winchester 180 ballistic silertip and Nosler custom 180 accubond.
There are very few custom rifles I've ever seen that can best that accuracy.
Other than the center heart and neck shots taken at 100 and 200 yarss to anchor that Oryx have been head shots on whitetail and it will deliver consistent 5 shot groups in the .5" to .625" range at 200 yards with factory Winchester 180 ballistic silertip and Nosler custom 180 accubond.
There are very few custom rifles I've ever seen that can best that accuracy.
This thread makes me love capitalism.
Don’t buy a Rosey Odonell and tell me she is as hot as Scarlett Johanssen, just because that’s all you could get to follow you home to the trailer park.
Don’t buy a Rosey Odonell and tell me she is as hot as Scarlett Johanssen, just because that’s all you could get to follow you home to the trailer park.
It's also over $1000.00 more than the savage.
I used that 1k to purchase an Athon Cronus.
I used that 1k to purchase an Athon Cronus.
Some people feel the experience of driving an Escalade to be worth the price premium over a Chevy Tahoe. They both have the same basic chassis, do the same thing,etc. One is a heck of a lot more luxurious than the other. Worth it ? Everyone has to make the best decision for themselves.
I bought a T3 tac lefty, and for me, the shooting experience is worth 2x the cost over the Savage. One of the biggest things I have learned the hard way, is to not sweat paying a little more for what you want for a rifle. The real cost in this sport is feeding them.
I bought a T3 tac lefty, and for me, the shooting experience is worth 2x the cost over the Savage. One of the biggest things I have learned the hard way, is to not sweat paying a little more for what you want for a rifle. The real cost in this sport is feeding them.
1. They don't stand behind their product
2. Their customer service... doesn't exist to actually help their customers
I purchased a Savage rifle and discovered after paying a noted gunsmith to cut the barrel that the bore was not concentric with the rest of the barrel. Horribly, visibly far off of center. Sloppy, sloppy work. Needless to say, it walked every time the barrel heated up.
I contacted Savage 6 times trying to resolve the situation, they said QC would have caught it if it was truly an issue, if the rifle shoots, there is no issue, and finally I could ship them the rifle on my $ and they'll make an assessment on whether it's worth doing anything about and depending on the severity they will decide whether I have to pay to ship the rifle back to myself as well. It would be around a 3 month turnaround as they were about to go on a 2 month vacation or something and there was a backlog. WTF???
So I buy their product and in less than 30 days they tell me to ship it to them and likely pay to ship it back, possibly with NO changes made if their people determine it's within acceptable spec? Which it was made clear it was or it wouldn't have left the factory.
I WILL NEVER BUY A SAVAGE PRODUCT AGAIN. I deeply regretted it after dealing with their CS.
Ruger was the exact opposite. I had an RPR which shot well and was 100% reliable. Needed a part from Ruger and they shipped it to me for free, easy CS, no hassle, told me if I ever had any issues to not hesitate to call. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Ruger as a company.
Now shooting Tikka exclusively. I'm not a fan that their CS has no phone number... but I haven't had a problem yet either.
NO SAVAGE for me. There are too many other good companies that will stand behind their product to support one that won't.
2. Their customer service... doesn't exist to actually help their customers
I purchased a Savage rifle and discovered after paying a noted gunsmith to cut the barrel that the bore was not concentric with the rest of the barrel. Horribly, visibly far off of center. Sloppy, sloppy work. Needless to say, it walked every time the barrel heated up.
I contacted Savage 6 times trying to resolve the situation, they said QC would have caught it if it was truly an issue, if the rifle shoots, there is no issue, and finally I could ship them the rifle on my $ and they'll make an assessment on whether it's worth doing anything about and depending on the severity they will decide whether I have to pay to ship the rifle back to myself as well. It would be around a 3 month turnaround as they were about to go on a 2 month vacation or something and there was a backlog. WTF???
So I buy their product and in less than 30 days they tell me to ship it to them and likely pay to ship it back, possibly with NO changes made if their people determine it's within acceptable spec? Which it was made clear it was or it wouldn't have left the factory.
I WILL NEVER BUY A SAVAGE PRODUCT AGAIN. I deeply regretted it after dealing with their CS.
Ruger was the exact opposite. I had an RPR which shot well and was 100% reliable. Needed a part from Ruger and they shipped it to me for free, easy CS, no hassle, told me if I ever had any issues to not hesitate to call. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Ruger as a company.
Now shooting Tikka exclusively. I'm not a fan that their CS has no phone number... but I haven't had a problem yet either.
NO SAVAGE for me. There are too many other good companies that will stand behind their product to support one that won't.
That's crazy. Owned a couple Savages and never needed to use CS, and now I'm glad I didn't. I never put a ton of rounds down either gun though.
Like you, I used Ruger CS once - one of the best experiences I ever had. I had marred up the finish on a MKIII 22 pistol that was a special edition. The main disassembly pin was incredibly hard to remove and I had tried to take precautions not to damage the pistol cosmetically when driving it out with a mallet, but it didn't work and I scuffed up the top of the receiver. I told them the whole story and just asked if there was anything they could do - I'd be willing to pay for it. They wouldn't let me. They paid for shipping both ways, did something to clean it up (no idea what, but it worked and looked nearly new when I got it back), and had it all done within about 2 weeks from my FFL back to my doorstep. I couldn't have asked for more even if I was being unreasonable.
Actually had a similar deal with Tikka CS. I was having ejection issues and couldn't figure it out. I had already removed & cleaned the ejector once, so when I called, they sent me a new ejector/extractor kit with springs/pins and all. When I went to install it, it had been a few weeks and I forgot to pull the firing pin first. So when I went to knock out the ejector roll pin, I was actually just hitting it against the firing pin. I bent it really badly before figuring out what I'd done. Called CS and told them the whole story and they said as a one-time favor, they would replace it at no charge. I sent in the bolt and had it back a couple weeks later with a new pin. The pins were $120-ish online, but nobody had them in stock anyway. Turns out my ejection issue was a scope mounted too low and the brass hitting the windage knob on the way out. As soon as I raised the scope back up, the problem went away. So it was never an issue with the gun that caused the original problem - just my own ignorance. But Tikka has a customer for life because of it. My only complaint is that the firing pin is $120. I wouldn't have been so sick about the whole thing if that wasn't the case.
I had a Savage BA10 stealth as my first 6.5 CM rifle. I took it to four different two day classes.
When cold, the rifle hammers. REALLY damned accurate with hand loads. However, it opens up and gets erratic like a mother fucker as soon as you run it the least bit hard and get it hot. It's not enough to cause misses 500 and under, but running hard for dots etc. was a mess.
It's perfectly reliable feeding/extracting/ejecting as long as you are running the bolt relatively slowly, but again, as soon as you try running the gun hard it's just a matter of time before it fails to extract or eject.
Now these things didn't happen a lot, but they did happen more than the other shooters guns at the classes I was attending. Which is to say they happened at all.
Next up is the trigger, the slightest sideways pressure on the safety shoe locks the trigger mechanism up. I know that this is me fucking up, but still, not a worry with other guns.
I am aware that a fast barrel change will help my heat induced issues. I know that I could send it to a smith and have a ton of upgrades done to the bolt etc, I am not comfortable doing that on my own. The issue of lipstick on a pig comes up though.
I will say that my bolt lift only seems moderately heavy. I have a Tikka 223 that has the heaviest empty chamber bolt lift I have ever experienced in my life, and the nuke actions I have honestly dont seem "light". That Tikka is an irritation I have no idea how to solve because no one seems to have the issue. All guns will have disappointing aspects.
When cold, the rifle hammers. REALLY damned accurate with hand loads. However, it opens up and gets erratic like a mother fucker as soon as you run it the least bit hard and get it hot. It's not enough to cause misses 500 and under, but running hard for dots etc. was a mess.
It's perfectly reliable feeding/extracting/ejecting as long as you are running the bolt relatively slowly, but again, as soon as you try running the gun hard it's just a matter of time before it fails to extract or eject.
Now these things didn't happen a lot, but they did happen more than the other shooters guns at the classes I was attending. Which is to say they happened at all.
Next up is the trigger, the slightest sideways pressure on the safety shoe locks the trigger mechanism up. I know that this is me fucking up, but still, not a worry with other guns.
I am aware that a fast barrel change will help my heat induced issues. I know that I could send it to a smith and have a ton of upgrades done to the bolt etc, I am not comfortable doing that on my own. The issue of lipstick on a pig comes up though.
I will say that my bolt lift only seems moderately heavy. I have a Tikka 223 that has the heaviest empty chamber bolt lift I have ever experienced in my life, and the nuke actions I have honestly dont seem "light". That Tikka is an irritation I have no idea how to solve because no one seems to have the issue. All guns will have disappointing aspects.
I f-ed up and cleaned out my Tikka bolt once and the bolt lift got insanely heavy. Went back in and added grease on the engagement surfaces and the issue went away entirely. The biggest place that needed it is the curved cam surface on the back of the bolt that loads the firing pin spring. As soon as I put some grease on there, the bolt lift went back to smooth & light.
Yeah, I've tried that. I posted in the Tikka thread for advice because this reminded me that warm weather is coming and I want to use my trainer to actually train lol
I’m not a Savage fan and wouldn’t buy one myself. They feel terrible to me. I don’t feel this way with Any other factory bolt rifle. The few examples that I have gotten behind both shot extremely well though. Equal to any custom rifle.
I have a friend with 6.5 creed that shoots amazing. Brass dribbles out when you pull the bolt back but it does extract and eject. I shot my other buddies new Savage .338 Lapua yesterday and that rifle hammers as well with factory IMI ammunition. Ejection is much better on this one.
As far as the Tikkas go, I have several and really like them. They have a heavy built lift compared to most other actions. It’s not their strong point. That’s the way it is
I have a friend with 6.5 creed that shoots amazing. Brass dribbles out when you pull the bolt back but it does extract and eject. I shot my other buddies new Savage .338 Lapua yesterday and that rifle hammers as well with factory IMI ammunition. Ejection is much better on this one.
As far as the Tikkas go, I have several and really like them. They have a heavy built lift compared to most other actions. It’s not their strong point. That’s the way it is
I bought a salvage LR hunter in 338lm only for breaking things if needed, only because it was cheap. Long/short it took 3 months of messing with it to get it to work properly, with a whole host of shop tooling. I would not part with this one, but I'll never buy another in my life time, nor could you give me another. Their CS is only mouth, an the ones I spoke to do not even know their own product.
I ran a model 11 for quite a while.
It treated me well as I could deal with its limitations.
I’ve since decided this limitations were unacceptable and recently moved on.
I don’t regret initially going the savage route.
This is the last group my savage shot.
5 shots at 300 yards.
It went out honorably.
It treated me well as I could deal with its limitations.
I’ve since decided this limitations were unacceptable and recently moved on.
I don’t regret initially going the savage route.
This is the last group my savage shot.
5 shots at 300 yards.
It went out honorably.
Gonna be the asshole here.
If I own a company and someone randomly claims a barrel is out of spec. I don’t take their word for it and pay for shipping.
Do you realize how many claims you would be getting and paying for??? Every hairlip slapping a trigger that can’t get rifle to shoot is gonna be asking to ship it back cause “I shoot 1/4 minute always, so something be wrong.”
Telling you to ship it back, let me look at it, and if it is my fault, I’ll pick up the tab, sounds perfectly reasonable.
And no company is going to tell you on the phone “oh ya, sure, we fuck up barrels all the time.”
I don’t like savage at all. But the above experience isn’t bad customer service.
If I own a company and someone randomly claims a barrel is out of spec. I don’t take their word for it and pay for shipping.
Do you realize how many claims you would be getting and paying for??? Every hairlip slapping a trigger that can’t get rifle to shoot is gonna be asking to ship it back cause “I shoot 1/4 minute always, so something be wrong.”
Telling you to ship it back, let me look at it, and if it is my fault, I’ll pick up the tab, sounds perfectly reasonable.
And no company is going to tell you on the phone “oh ya, sure, we fuck up barrels all the time.”
I don’t like savage at all. But the above experience isn’t bad customer service.
One of my friends, in the '90's, wanted to put a brake on a Savage for his son to shoot. Takes the gun to a good smith. Gets a call a week later, "you better come take a look at this". The bore was not close to being true to the barrel O/D, and the smith said this was not the first Savage he had seen with barrel problems. Reminds me of a magazine article I read a long time ago about a tour at Savage where it showed an employee using a strange, to me, looking machine to straighten barrels. Always wondered why about that one. Just my .02 cents worth.
My 2 cents.
I have a couple Savages in 308 and 22250 and 223. I chose Savages for very specific reasons in my small bores. I shoot loads of rounds annually at prairie dogs and go through barrels fast in the 22250. Plainly stated, I can rebarrel that gun with factory take offs for $100. Cant beat it, and I can do at my bench in my garage. Are they accurate? Dang right. Do I need super duper reliable extractors and ejectors laying on a blanket over looking a town? Nope. I've never had one fail, but I could see how the competitive shooters would not like them.
I have a couple Savages in 308 and 22250 and 223. I chose Savages for very specific reasons in my small bores. I shoot loads of rounds annually at prairie dogs and go through barrels fast in the 22250. Plainly stated, I can rebarrel that gun with factory take offs for $100. Cant beat it, and I can do at my bench in my garage. Are they accurate? Dang right. Do I need super duper reliable extractors and ejectors laying on a blanket over looking a town? Nope. I've never had one fail, but I could see how the competitive shooters would not like them.
My "friends and family" trainer gun is a savage SV/LR and its amazing. Never, not once in thousands of rounds has it had a single hiccup and its accurate as can be. Bigger bore? IDK but for a .22 I think the only thing better would have been a voodoo
I've had pretty good luck with Savage CS. I have had problems that had to be corrected. It is usually just a matter of swapping parts. I usually sign the waiver and they send me the parts for free. I called to order some firing pin springs as I dryfire a ton. At first the guy told me he couldn't sell that part even with a waiver. When I explained all of the adjustments to get the gun working again after changing the firing pin spring, they shipped me several for free. I offered to pay and the guy said he would send them for free for assuming I was just another ignorant customer. They sell cheap guns. They sell a shitload of them. Most Fudds that shoot a box of ammo every five years buy Savage, Mossberg, etc. I'm sure they have a lot of unfounded warranty claims. Also, the only two heavy barreled Savage guns I've shot with factory barrels would consistently shoot under half moa and often quarter moa for three shots. Those were ten plus years ago. I have noticed that a lot of the new Savage actions I have bought have had problems with small things. It does seem their QC is not nearly what it used to be. I will say that the newer actions are a lot smoother and generally timed much better than my old ones. I have no clue what the barrels are like now because they get replaced by Criterion prefits immediately. For the cost of a Bighorn Origin, etc I will not be building anymore match rifles with Savage actions. It was a cheap way to get started in the sport before all of the good factory offerings became available.
When I first started getting serious about long range shooting and hunting, I went with savage because they had left hand actions and decent barrels + triggers available.
Stocks were a different story though, but I got around that issue.
I could build a super accurate LH rifle for half the cost.
Whats not to like about that ?
If I was an evil right hand shooter, I would probably never have looked at a savage.
Now I can get a left hand Rem action and Remage barrel in the same price range as savage, so I'll be sticking with my savages for hunting and shooting comps with my Remages.
The best of both worlds.
SJC
Stocks were a different story though, but I got around that issue.
I could build a super accurate LH rifle for half the cost.
Whats not to like about that ?
If I was an evil right hand shooter, I would probably never have looked at a savage.
Now I can get a left hand Rem action and Remage barrel in the same price range as savage, so I'll be sticking with my savages for hunting and shooting comps with my Remages.
The best of both worlds.
SJC
I sent them pics. The bore was HORRIBLY off center. They made it clear that if it was to spec, they would not do anything.
If it left the factory, then it was almost certainly to spec. Did not leave me as a customer feeling either supported or serviced... rather I was spun and handled over and over again.
They didn't want to deal with it and made it clear what I could do... and what would likely NOT happen.
Like applying for a concealed carry permit in SF. You can apply, pay a fee, and wait... but you'll be waiting a long while.
If it left the factory, then it was almost certainly to spec. Did not leave me as a customer feeling either supported or serviced... rather I was spun and handled over and over again.
They didn't want to deal with it and made it clear what I could do... and what would likely NOT happen.
Like applying for a concealed carry permit in SF. You can apply, pay a fee, and wait... but you'll be waiting a long while.
So, they told you if it left the factory, it was probably within spec. And, if it’s within spec, they aren’t going to do anything for you.
That’s every company anywhere.
You buy cheaper things like Savage, and the tolerances are not going to be that good. Same as when you buy a sub $1500 optic and the tracking is off 2%. It’s within spec and you get what you pay for.
Yes. That's basically what was communicated to me by Savage CS.
No, that's NOT every company everywhere.
Vortex does replace broken scopes. Burris replaced 2 scopes for me that were problematic. Thunderbeast actually picks up the phone when you call; if there is something wrong with their product they make it right.
Hence why I won't buy a Savage product again and wholeheartedly recommend against buying their product with any hope of their CS supporting their product.
But I can and do recommend Ruger in the same rough budget range.
I support companies that back up their products with my $$, admittedly I don't have enough to purchase higher end products that get me past the cheaper things... but not everyone can afford to simply buy the best and skip the rest.
No, that's NOT every company everywhere.
Vortex does replace broken scopes. Burris replaced 2 scopes for me that were problematic. Thunderbeast actually picks up the phone when you call; if there is something wrong with their product they make it right.
Hence why I won't buy a Savage product again and wholeheartedly recommend against buying their product with any hope of their CS supporting their product.
But I can and do recommend Ruger in the same rough budget range.
I support companies that back up their products with my $$, admittedly I don't have enough to purchase higher end products that get me past the cheaper things... but not everyone can afford to simply buy the best and skip the rest.
That kind of customer support adds up and increases the price of the products. The margins on scopes like Vortex, Burris, and Athlon are massive (compared to manufacturing cost of the scopes) because they have to factor in the increased cost of support.
Savage didn't wrong you in any way there, their customer support just doesn't have the power/budget to immediately ship you a replacement because you sent them a picture of what could be a problem. For all they know the picture could be photoshopped or it could be of something that isn't even your gun.
As far as the cost of shipping the product back to the company, there isn't a company out there right now (in the shooting sports world) that regularly gives you shipping labels to send them potentially defective products - unless they have service centers or trusted shops that can at least inspect the item first. I've dealt with warranty for Vortex, Athlon, Burris, and Remington in the past and not one of them sent me a shipping label without at least having an authorized shop inspect the item and discuss the matter with them first.
You'll also find that you have to pay for return shipping on every item that you send to any customer support that falls within specifications. It doesn't matter if you bought a Schmidt, a Vortex, a Barrett, or a Savage. If you send them something that doesn't need repair or support (a scope with a cosmetic scratch or a rifle within tolerances) they will bill you for the shipping. Why should the company pay for shipping stuff that didn't need to go back to them in the first place? They already shipped it out on their dime at least once (from the factory to them) and possibly twice (from them to the vendor or to you), if the product is fine it's ridiculous to assume they should just eat the shipping charge because you made a mistake in sending it back.
Athlon paid shipping both ways for a defective scope they ultimately replaced for me. Maybe I just got lucky.
If YOU are okay with Savage's CS policies, then by all means, put your $$$ into their products and support them.
The issue is that if their "spec" is horribly off and results in a product that doesn't perform, you're just SOL- AND paid shipping both ways for nothing. Again, if you're okay with that, go for it. They made it really clear over the phone that they would only do something if it was not within spec... and it was within spec if it left the factory. Around a 3 month turnaround. You do the math.
If you don't feel Savage did anything wrong, keep purchasing from them and other companies that offer the same level of CS.
I'll support the companies that I feel stand behind their products. Maybe Ruger, maybe Thunderbeast, maybe Athlon, maybe Burris.
IME, I'll pass on Savage.
If YOU are okay with Savage's CS policies, then by all means, put your $$$ into their products and support them.
The issue is that if their "spec" is horribly off and results in a product that doesn't perform, you're just SOL- AND paid shipping both ways for nothing. Again, if you're okay with that, go for it. They made it really clear over the phone that they would only do something if it was not within spec... and it was within spec if it left the factory. Around a 3 month turnaround. You do the math.
If you don't feel Savage did anything wrong, keep purchasing from them and other companies that offer the same level of CS.
I'll support the companies that I feel stand behind their products. Maybe Ruger, maybe Thunderbeast, maybe Athlon, maybe Burris.
IME, I'll pass on Savage.
As much as companies like to claim that defects never leave the factory, they'll always have lemons leave the factory now and again that don't meet their specs.
If the bore alignment was so bad it was noticeable to the naked eye the odds of the gun being within spec would be slim to none. You're effectively claiming right now that Savage regularly allows their rifles to leave the shop with bores so far off center that you can see it with the naked eye, and that this kind of defect is within their spec.
If a visible defect like that is within their spec, that is absolutely unacceptable for any company on the planet. We don't know if that's within their spec though, because you were too busy whining about the fact that they follow standard practices for CS returns (buyer ships product in, if it isn't actually defective then buyer pays for return shipping) to actually solve your problem.
If you were really worried about getting charged for return shipping but wanted your gun fixed, the first thing you would do would be to measure how far off the alignment is within the bore (or have the gunsmith do it since they told you about it in the first place), then ask them what their spec is for bore concentricity at the factory.
To break things down simply and help you understand why what you're saying doesn't make much sense, let's see if we can agree on the process that happened:
- You discover problem with bore concentricity on your Savage rifle
- You contact Savage to try and solve the issue
- Savage tells you to ship them the defective product with the standard warning that if it isn't actually defective (if it's within their specs) they will charge you for return shipping
- Savage notifies you that they're busy due to an event and backlog, so you can decide if you want to send the rifle in now or later when you may not need it
Sounds way too complicated. I had a Ruger American that I noticed had a visibly off centered bore, so bad that baffle strikes were a real concern.
Told Ruger, no pics sent, they said drop it off at the FFL that ordered it. Gun returned less than two weeks later with a new barrel, no money out of my pocket.
Told Ruger, no pics sent, they said drop it off at the FFL that ordered it. Gun returned less than two weeks later with a new barrel, no money out of my pocket.
I love my Savage 12 .223. The barrel and stock have been changed to a Criterion and a XLR. I had work done on the bolt lift and the firing pin bushed, so there's little of the original left 
, but the thing's a hammer. I've never had ejection problems, thankfully, so I can only imagine how irritating it would be.
, but the thing's a hammer. I've never had ejection problems, thankfully, so I can only imagine how irritating it would be.
People have (essentially) two phases in this sport:
“I’m starting out; how do I get the most bang for my buck to put lead on steel at range?”
And...
“Life is too short to shoot a shitty, rattling, bumpy, clunky gun.”
Everyone usually starts at one, and (if they really get into this type of discipline) end up at the other.
I think we all know where Savage fits into that spread of options.
The standard of “Accuracy” is a pretty low bar these days. Often times, it’s everything else that costs, and becomes important. Accuracy is great for putting a round on target, but when it comes to putting rounds on multiple targets, off unstable positions and under time, that smoothness, fit and finish definitely matter.
“I’m starting out; how do I get the most bang for my buck to put lead on steel at range?”
And...
“Life is too short to shoot a shitty, rattling, bumpy, clunky gun.”
Everyone usually starts at one, and (if they really get into this type of discipline) end up at the other.
I think we all know where Savage fits into that spread of options.
The standard of “Accuracy” is a pretty low bar these days. Often times, it’s everything else that costs, and becomes important. Accuracy is great for putting a round on target, but when it comes to putting rounds on multiple targets, off unstable positions and under time, that smoothness, fit and finish definitely matter.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. But thought it may have some relevance to this thread.
- Status
