When they just print infinite money?
(Rhetorical question) but think about it.
(Rhetorical question) but think about it.
Why do we pay taxes?
- Thread starter Bender
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Taxation is theft. We pay taxes so the IRS doesn’t kick in our doors, shoot our dogs, and drag us off to prison. And so that politicians can buy our votes with our own money.
Perhaps that’s too cynical. Perhaps not cynical enough…
Perhaps that’s too cynical. Perhaps not cynical enough…
It's extortion. You pay the government so the 'man doesn't come around.
You might want to be careful with the truth as there are a lot of "good people" that feel very strongly about how interest is the greatest thing ever and the bankers need to get their money no matter what...
Don't forget a lot of taxation is done before you even get the money. I bet if we had to "pay" our tax instead of "deductions" from payroll, people would be a lot more pissed at how much is taken.
I'm not quite in the "all taxation is theft" camp yet, but for today's sake, I'll agree "Current Taxation is theft" because saying Govt spends like druken sailors is offensive to druken sailor's spending habits.
I think G. Washington would have said "Me and my homies woulda been stackin bodies by now"
Also Economics 101: Printing money = Inflation.
Except pretty much the first thing Washington did once they were in power, was to wait for it...
Raise an army and go enforce taxation on the poor at gun point
All so the bankers wouldn't have to wait quite as long for their money...
Compound Interest is one of the greatest things ever.
Bankers however should earn their keep like everyone else. "Too big to fail" is an excuse for "bailouts" If you screw the pooch: Bye!!
The Fed and consildated banking is NOT our friend.
You have a poor understanding of history. The standing army was based on his experience during the revolution. A govt can't act without funds: Yes there was a rebellion over a whiskey tax. The army wasn't raised for the tax or to enforce the tax. This of course led to the Federalist-Anti-Federalist split as the Federalists (Washington) wanting a standing army and national economic policy (under Hamilton). You gotta pay the bills. I'll have to go back and look , but only the assumption of state war debts was done and not chartering of the national bank
the national bank established at that time. Early in America's History there was a HUGE debate over a Federal Bank culminating with Jackson's paying off the debt and vetoing the Re-Charter of the national bank. This was done without an income tax.
Govt has to have some money to operate (No free lunch!). The problem isn't the concept of taxes its the spending along with ties between government and banks. Banks should be like gun stores: private entities. All the govt does is control the money supply (printing).
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Ha, ha, ha ! 
Just wait 'til all youz guyz have to start paying INTO Medicare when you retire. Then you'll find out what REAL theft looks like
Just wait 'til all youz guyz have to start paying INTO Medicare when you retire. Then you'll find out what REAL theft looks like
So Biden can send it to the Ukraine to launder and split the kickbacks with Pelosi and most of the people in Washington?
My main issue with taxes is that the amount of money they collect (state and federal) is so astronomical that it would be impossible to comprehend where it all goes and how it's managed.
Yes yes yes, the budget office, the GAO and myriad of reports thru FOIA can give us glimpse of government spending and accountability of each dollar they collect.
I'm still not convinced. For example, in the state I live there are 4,161,655 vehicles, an average cost of registration is $151 each.
That's $628,409,905 that state collects each year just from that, on top of hundreds of other taxes (property, sales, income, fee for this, fee for that, tolls, fuel tax, etc.)
So that's just one state, now put it in perspective on the federal level.
For me, a commoner it's hard to imagine proper management of that much amount of money and where does it go, who does it go to and how it's spent.
The room for corruption, theft is absolutely there and we would never know about it.
Yes yes yes, the budget office, the GAO and myriad of reports thru FOIA can give us glimpse of government spending and accountability of each dollar they collect.
I'm still not convinced. For example, in the state I live there are 4,161,655 vehicles, an average cost of registration is $151 each.
That's $628,409,905 that state collects each year just from that, on top of hundreds of other taxes (property, sales, income, fee for this, fee for that, tolls, fuel tax, etc.)
So that's just one state, now put it in perspective on the federal level.
For me, a commoner it's hard to imagine proper management of that much amount of money and where does it go, who does it go to and how it's spent.
The room for corruption, theft is absolutely there and we would never know about it.
So in other words you just said yep, they had to have money and we'll use the "just following orders" types and "just doing their duty" types to collect it at gunpoint...
Actually you are incorrect they actually DID raise an army for it, they called up the militia to assemble and march out go put a stop to those freedom loving types that wanted to be able to do their business without some vile corrupt heavy handed government tax man breathing down their necks.
They also weren't too happy about how the big rich had to pay less than the poor for the same thing... like today.
Many of the poor rural types quickly found themselves worse off under the new regime than the old regime, fact!
I have a fairly good understanding of history, just how it actually was not how it has been glossed over.
You don't quite seem to comprehend the mathematical impossibility of that being a good thing in the long term.
It is not mathematically sustainable.
The only outcome is a cycle of unending escalation of debt, inflation and devaluation of whatever is used as currency and then a huge crash where most lose just about everything and then it starts over.
It's part of what destroyed the Roman empire, eventually the money lenders wound up with all the gold.
But I understand there is no point trying to tell people about it because they have been so indoctrinated to believe "interest=good"
The Global Banking Elite have done a very good job convincing everyone that they have some right to enslave everyone.
Here is a simple one for you (and I'm sure you have the stock answer ready), so the fed prints all the "money" and lends it out for interest.. right okay now let's say everybody decides that they all will pay back the fed all the loans and clear out all their debts... oh wait, they can't because more is owed than money ever printed...
You could substitute Gold or Silver instead of money or anything else for that matter you would still wind up with the same problem as the Romans found out.
If you ever want to be free yourself and have your children remain free and their children, you have to... oh why bother, nobody ever learns they just will say interest in good and we deserve it and go right back to building up a world where the banking elite enslave all the nations and grow rich and powerful off the backs of the working stiffs... all enabled by a bunch of "just following orders" and "just doing their duty" types as the rest of the slaves chant "just obey the law".
Yeah, and lots of people voted for dementia Joe. Not only does it not make them right, it proves their stupidity
You are living in your own world aren't you.
The militia was called up due to rebellion, those unhappy with the tax attacked the taxman first. And it was far from the "pay up or we kill you all" there were extensive negotiations ahead of time, no one was killed and no one was even jailed (No dogs were harmed during the Washington Administration). Since the government was brand new, it would be a stretch to call it corrupt, it just happened that the tax hit the main livelihood of the majority of people (who were farmers--and thus sold excess grain as alcohol. You're distorting history for your own manic vision that somehow government can operate without income.
You also miss the point that the original bank was prohibited from doing any of the things the fed does now and inteded to be largely neutral to establish the credit of the United States. Banking was supposed to be a private enterprise.
--
Here's a clue:
Don't want to pay interest? Don't Borrow!
Actually you are missing the point on interest because apparently math is hard. If I earn on my investments, thats good for me. If I borrow and have to pay interest, that's good for the lender. Not me. Interest itself isn't bad. Your beef is with inflationary spending and easy borrowing (interest lending). But as you seem to have very little grasp of reality, that's no concern. Interest didn't kill the roman empire Government SPENDING and INFLATION killed it. Interest is just math (1 + x)^n . I'm smart enough to make it work in my favor. I suspect you are not actually familiar with Friedmans work on the money supply as CONTROLLING the money supply is not the same as INFLATING (although you seem to conflate the two) the money supply. Its not like he got a Nobel Prize for his work or anything.
You want to know what's bad?
Promising continuous return on investment. (aka Govt Funded Retirement Funds)
If I screw up there's no guarantee that my (1+x)^n keeps going. I gotta do my work to keep it going.
But keep blaming math for the world's troubles. Math don't care.
The fact that you are equating the liquor excise tax with things like quantitative easing is laughable in the extreme.
I'm sure you also missed the part in history where farmers wanted free silver to inflate the money supply due to their crops being worth more at harvest than at planting. "cross of gold" speech anyone? yeah I thought so. Everyone is in it for themselves.
Thats short sighted. Who builds the nice interstate highways you bitch about because there are too many potholes? You do, with your taxes.
Like with most other things, there is use and there is abuse.
Building highways, maintaining an armed force, and a few other things are good and responsible use.
Paying wetbacks to vote for the party paying them, is abuse. Paying so a fucking incarcerated tranny can get his dick cut off and a pussy built is abuse.
Guess who was behind the creation of the FED? I dont mean who created it here, but which entity was behind them.
Ill give a hint.
A certain group of Gold merchants.
Taxes are just a vehicle for control. The rich or well to do business owner laughs at the concept of taxes. They make the products and services that the poor are always buying. Businesses just bake the cost of taxes and regulations into the products they make. The poor end up paying the rich man's "taxes". All these extra tax spoils (funded by the poors) just enable the government to get bigger and claim more control. Its all funded by the poors that foolishly look to government for a solution for their self inflicted woes.
Remember when the federal income tax was only 3%? It was just to pay the representatives and provide for a national defense. Look what they want now.
Remember when the federal income tax was only 3%? It was just to pay the representatives and provide for a national defense. Look what they want now.
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1. I wonder what percent of the membership in here are connected to police or military service. Obviously you’re painting an awfully broad stroke of insult to the parties herein.
2. You should probably take a look at Hobbes’ Leviathan to broaden your understanding of the role of violence and society. Do you propose that we should live in anarchy with the strongest taking from the weakest without possibility of sanctions.
Here, in Shreveport, I did some work for a local attorney, Tom Cryer. He's the only person, I've ever heard of, who refused to pay taxes and got away with it, after the government sued and prosecuted him for it. In the end, the government failed to prove criminal intent and he walked.
So you mean pretty much exactly like now, except that the "strongest" are the government, their paid goons and the corporations that are in bed with the government?
The idea of government and then like police and stuff started out all noble and just, like it always does, then devolved into tyranny pretty quickly, just like it always does.
Because we're too busy fighting each other over bullshit they created to keep us divided so we can't stand against them and the myth that they are toe sovereign power.
When the government can afford to send BILLIONS to other countries every single year, most of which hate us, it just proves once again the government collects way too much in taxes. If that money was actually being used here at home, I wouldn’t be as salty about it.
I pay taxes so the .gov doesn’t shoot my dog and burn my house down with my wife and children in it
Nope , thats not cynical that is just the truth. That's what we should collectively do to send a real message and demand change. A good chunk of us stop paying taxes and get that going on Facebook and social media ect and we'd get some actual results
And they will collect much more next year too because they have inflated our dollars (that they poof into existance) beyond what anyone can truly comprehend. All of these people understand macro economics very well.... they know exactly what they are doing. Same reason they get a spending bill passed anytime they want one..
Because they want to.
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I love to borrow. Why use my money when I can use the banks money. I can pay 2% interest, write off that interest, and use their money to invest in things such as Real Estate. Market goes up. Sell the property and make a little bit. 1031 the property and you don't have capital gains. Buy a nicer property. Its all a game. Just don't become too greedy, read and follow the trends.
"Anarchy" as in different from now. An entire group of people burned parts of the country down for months and got away scot free because they aligned with the correct political party that had the dominant control during their period of time. Or do you mean crime rates through the roof with the overarching theme that nothing matters or has inherent value and only the things an individual deems important to themselves are important.
We are already living in anarchy, its just a more docile form due to the wealth of the masses. Lets all remember what happened when people couldn't buy TP, wouldn't and won't be much different and will end up much worse when the system crashes and people start eating each other like all good mammals ultimately do.
mostly so we can complain about it afterwords that and electing people with no idea on how to do there jobs properly have never made any sense .
Everyone here has it worked out.
For new people.. summary is:
Govt saw mafia making money, as a business. They became mafia.
ATF and FBI are the thugs / muscle, and IRS are the bookies, who are setting the odds.
Each country has it. Some more subtle or obvious than others.
For new people.. summary is:
Govt saw mafia making money, as a business. They became mafia.
ATF and FBI are the thugs / muscle, and IRS are the bookies, who are setting the odds.
Each country has it. Some more subtle or obvious than others.
I don't mind paying taxes to fund my use of critical infrastructure....I drive on interstates and have police, fire, and military protection. I just wish we could resolve the Representation Issue and actually be represented by people who are on the US Payrole to enact legislation that enriches US and not themselves and their owner/operators.
VooDoo
VooDoo
So once again we come back to "Its not the institution, or taxes themselves, but the nature of the people in charge."
Everyone here should read "The Beast from Jeckyl Island" and Ron Paul's " End the Fed"
I've seen this quite a few times.
It only works when you're self employed. I've had clients that made millions and refused to pay income taxes. Their vehicles are leased through their business entities, they rent their homes and have no personal credit to speak of. The IRS has nothing to garnish, put a lien on etc. Whatever they die with will go the government.
As long as you file your returns and file them honestly/accurately, it's incredibly unlikely you'll go to jail for not paying your taxes provided you structure your assets appropriately.
Over 60% of American households don't pay federal income tax.
The other 40% carries the burden.
The idea that the "rich" don't pay their fair share is complete and utter horseshit. If anything, the self employed don't pay their fair share. I just happens to be that a healthy chunk of the self employed make up a disproportionate share of the "rich." The top 1% pay almost 40% of all individual income taxes collected.
Peasants get a free ride, comparatively speaking. Sure, they pay sales and excise taxes, property and payroll taxes. Not income taxes though.
“The Creature From Jekyll Island” by G Edward Griffin
This x 1 millyun. Also, read anything by Ludwig Von Mises, Murray Rothbard, Hans-Hermann Hoppe, or one of the very first Eugen Von Bohm Bawerk
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