Why do you buy cheep safes?

[TrooperBrian]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would be pretty funny to leave some ultra realistic body part props in some big jars filled with formaldehyde, and some blood infused (fake blood of course) linen sheets, all packed into the same cupboard that people install their safes.

Imagine when some dumb ass breaks into your place and opens a cupboard filled with body parts and photos of randoms pinned to the wall, add some newspaper clippings for effect.

I cant imagine them staying for too long.</div></div>

Good luck trying to explain that one.

"Yes officer the safe was right there. The pictures? What body parts? Oh uhhh.."

 

[GPKIII]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

Condom theory applies: Something is better than nothing.
Locks only keep "honest" men honest.

Side Bar:
As for insurance... you must exert due dilagence. If you didn't lock the door, well that's an issue.
Your home owner's policy has stated limits. Get a copy of the dec page and read it for yourself, then ask for company interpretation. Is your policy a replacement policy? If you have a HO2 or HO3 you still may wish to bump coverage with an IM. Your personal items lost to stated perils in your car are covered by your HO policy as well.Try to read your policy prior to needing it.
If you have a DP or rent and never got renter's insurance you are SOL anyway, in the evnt of fire, theft, vandelism, etc. Your guns may turn to charcoal in that pretty safe, right?.
An Inland Marine policy can easily be obtained to cover firearms, tools, jewelry, etc. and fuctions slightly differnt. IM policies also extend beyond the home. Rates per declared value vary greatly depending on deductibles and carriers.

Documentation and pictures of all your stuff is invaluable when stored in a safe deposit box.
Documentation and pictures of all your stuff is invaluable when stored in a safe deposit box.

Weigh it out; pick you battles...

The above is not an insurance pitch, just applicable info. Insurance doesn't keep your tool out of another's hands, and a safe only helps when the items are IN the safe. IM premiums over a period of time negate the cost question of a safe anyway.

I have seen some great used safes for sale on Craigslist, trading posts, business closings, etc. that were incredible bang for buck. It costs very little to change the lock on a used safe assuming the tumblers and all are OK. Browning's top units are supposed to be as good as it gets for fire and theft. The one's I have bought were not so pricey, but were far more than simple sheetmetal.

 

[lightman]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

Theres lots of expierenced people providing good advice here.Sometimes you buy what you can afford.A cheap safe is better than nothing.A good heavy,expensive safe is better yet.Good doors,windows,locks,alarm systems,dogs,all add to the security.Every member here would probably like to have a top of the line Ft Knox or Graffender,but not everyone can afford or needs one.My first was a 600#,$750.00 Browning.My next was a Ft.Knox,the next will be even bigger and heavier.Thats just me,I also have the locks,doors,alarm system,armed redneck at home,ect. Pete

 

[srtsam]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

I have 2 Liberty and one nice one for all my "stuff." The Cheaper one is strctly for ammo. So i would say cheap safes are good for ammo.

 

[Big Bo]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

I took the time to add up what I have in my safe, and I had no idea that it totaled that ammount. I am very glad to have a safe that will not and can not be defeated with an axe or a pry bar. The weight alone prevents carrying it away by two, three or four big guys.

Yes you can cut it open with a torch,but you will destroy all contents.

We all have our security levels, I have my peace of mind.

Thats all.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Once installed, they will do another house visit to inspect and approve.

If they ain't happy with anything....you don't get to keep your kit at home.</div></div>

I find this incredibly humorous since I was raised with loaded long guns propped in the corner.

Until the day he died my Grandfather had a loaded shotgun leaning against the corner behind his recliner.

One of the reasons I am glad that we declined our membership in the British Empire. Our gun laws suck, but they could always be worse.</div></div>

Te only people who pay any attention to laws are the law abiding majority.

As with your later comment on "dirtbag on dirtbag" crimes - it's the same here....and they don't feel the need to abide by gun laws!

My late father-in-law kept a bayonet he'd taken of some German guy he'd had a disagreement with in 1944. It came in useful the day some guy tried to take a short cut through his house to get away from the Police.

Years leter he would always crack up laughing when he decribed the idiot's reaction to being confronted by pensioner offering to go hand to hand if he refused to sit down quietly and wait for the constable to arrive.

Even the Police seemed to see the funny side and told the old boy to put the item away "before they saw it".

Wouldn't happen like that these days!!

My son has the bayonet now - a prized possession

 

[Am180man]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

I bought a used Amsec composite safe from a safe company. It's a true TL rated safe. Weighs almost 4000lbs. Had to go in the garage. I had installed an additional day lock that is keyed with a 6" long key. The locksmith told me NOT to lose the keys....expensive to open and replace.

As a side note to the "body parts" post above, I always thought of having a magnetic sign made up stating something along the lines of

"Warning! All interior walls are wired and quick fused, terminating into a 10lb container of black powder. ANY attempted breach by flame or cutting will result in instantaneous detonation resulting in destruction of contents, extensive personal injury, and or death. NOTHING IN THIS SAFE IS WORTH YOUR LIFE!!

Just a thought......
Steve

 

[TrooperBrian]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Am180man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought a used Amsec composite safe from a safe company. It's a true TL rated safe. Weighs almost 4000lbs. Had to go in the garage. I had installed an additional day lock that is keyed with a 6" long key. The locksmith told me NOT to lose the keys....expensive to open and replace.

As a side note to the "body parts" post above, I always thought of having a magnetic sign made up stating something along the lines of

"Warning! All interior walls are wired and quick fused, terminating into a 10lb container of black powder. ANY attempted breach by flame or cutting will result in instantaneous detonation resulting in destruction of contents, extensive personal injury, and or death. NOTHING IN THIS SAFE IS WORTH YOUR LIFE!!

Just a thought......
Steve</div></div>

I would think of something with more of a bang. Like something with "explosive bolts".

 

[Cartman]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

There is a lot of marketing regarding so-called high end safes.

The reality is most every "gun safe" most people will be familiar with have thin metal (though even pretty thick steel is not going to help much) sides and backs.

It seems most buyers focus on the doors. But only a total dumb arse tweaker or equivalent or young smash and grabber (luckily, your likely intruder) is going to go through the door.

Anyone who knows anything will be attacking the sides or back. Take a cheap circular saw and a cheap metal cutting disk and you're in in minutes.

A "serious" safe is something like a TRTL30x6. Probably about $20,000+ and around 6,000 pounds. Used is a good idea.

The reality is most people who talk about good safes are going to choke a little when it comes to really getting serious.

With a cheap safe one can help protect themselves by positioning the safe so the door opening side is up against a wall so that the bad guy can't get good leverage to pry the door open with a crow bar, and bolt it down so it can't be moved.

YMMV.

 

[Cartman]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Am180man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought a used Amsec composite safe from a safe company. It's a true TL rated safe. Weighs almost 4000lbs. Had to go in the garage. </div></div>

Just saw your post: you've got the right idea.

I think most guys willing to drop a few thousand will spring for a Fort Knox fancy-pants safe and, IMO, not have half the save you've got.

 

[boltstop]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would be pretty funny to leave some ultra realistic body part props in some big jars filled with formaldehyde, and some blood infused (fake blood of course) linen sheets, all packed into the same cupboard that people install their safes.

Imagine when some dumb ass breaks into your place and opens a cupboard filled with body parts and photos of randoms pinned to the wall, add some newspaper clippings for effect.

I cant imagine them staying for too long.</div></div>

This is one of the funnier posts on the normally reserved Sniper's Hide that I've read.

Probably pretty accurate, too.

 

[nimoz]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

There's a point often missed by most...

I also have a whole pack of rescued ill behaved chihuahuas, so that my house is way less appealing than my neighbors.
<span style="font-style: italic">"I don't need to outrun the bear, I just need to outrun you"</span>

</div></div>

- Which is why you only need a small dive knife when escaping a shark

I picked up my safe from Costco online - always buy one size larger than you think you will ever need. Free curb side delivery is nice, but isn't quite enough for a 600lbs safe

Dogs, insurance and fire rated. I'm OK with this level of safe.

 

[The_end]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

I guess a non rated "cabnet" is better than nothing at keeping kids out.

A fire rated safe and my home owners insurance is all I really need if I'm not home. A thief that's willing and prepared to drill a 600lb safe for $5k in rifles is few and far between. If they want them that bad, I'll buy new ones. If I'm home, a dog and a whole bunch of my bonded, HP buddies say they're not making it much past the door/window.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

My cabinets are not there as safeguards. They are there to satisfy legal distinctions regarding access by minors, and establishing evidence of criminal activity for liability purposes. Criminals (and kids) will access anything, given time and opportunity. I just want something to show afterward that I made a reasonable and demonstrable effort to behave as a responsible firearm owner.

Fire protection can be most economically provided by multiple layers of drywall, which actually constitutes the fire protective capability of many pricey and impossibly heavy gun safes, sandwiched between those thin inner and outer metal shells.

Greg

 

[tiNdvenTFHwMdqKW]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

I'd have to buy a safe to lock up all my metal cutting tools before I invested in a "real" safe for my guns.

Until then, I'm just keeping the kids out.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My cabinets are not there as safeguards. They are there to satisfy legal distinctions regarding access by minors, and establishing evidence of criminal activity for liability purposes. Criminals (and kids) will access anything, given time and opportunity. I just want something to show afterward that I made a reasonable and demonstrable effort to behave as a responsible firearm owner.

Fire protection can be most economically provided by multiple layers of drywall, which actually constitutes the fire protective capability of many pricey and impossibly heavy gun safes, sandwiched between those thin inner and outer metal shells.

Greg</div></div>

+1

My better safe houses the higher dollar guns I own. The lower quality the more "utilitarian". If a true hardcore thief got into my house he could, with some effort, gain both. But, not without some time, effort and breaking a few more rules.

I also like to mention that with guns, even though we don't like having them tracked, having friends in the business is always a good thing. Twice now, I've been able to get my stolen firearms back by talking to dealers and finding out, "who just got a great deal on a...."

Both instances also demonstrated to me that a safe will make it just hard enough to not want to take my guns.

 

[earthquake]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clamber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can barely afford a rifle, let alone a really nice safe. </div></div>

+1

 

[vman]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would be pretty funny to leave some ultra realistic body part props in some big jars filled with formaldehyde, and some blood infused (fake blood of course) linen sheets, all packed into the same cupboard that people install their safes.

Imagine when some dumb ass breaks into your place and opens a cupboard filled with body parts and photos of randoms pinned to the wall, add some newspaper clippings for effect.

I cant imagine them staying for too long.</div></div>

This is one of the funnier posts on the normally reserved Sniper's Hide that I've read.

Probably pretty accurate, too. </div></div>

You think thats funny? You should see what antics i get up to when I know theres going to be door knocking religous fanatics in the street! Can anyone say blood stained appron, blood stained rubber gloves, fully loaded butchers belt and a nice ol charismatic smile

Im still working on a good soundtrack, just to add that extra bit of atmosphere.

 

[stefan73]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: petrochempros.com</div><div class="ubbcode-body">when you rent a house, a 5000+ dollar 1000lb+ safe isnt possible </div></div>

Yes it is!!
The movers hate me but that is their problem!
They just have to not drop it through the floor again(the dolly broke through in a historic house I was renting (oooppppsssss)).

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

Had a 'keys issue' awhile back. Was flatly amazed how easy it was to get into my 'locked' metal gun cabinets. So I have no illusions; a pro would have been into both within a minute each. All I needed was a pair of pry bars. They have been rebuilt and would take longer now; but I wouldn't count on any metal gun cabinet for serious antitheft security.

My approach to fire safety involves where the cabinets are kept. There is a fire-protective space for chattels, built strong, separately locked, interior heat insulated, and walled with multiple plies of drywall.

Greg

 

[hammerhead77]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

Parents house recently broke into my dad has all his guns just in a closet. They broke threw 2 dead bolt doors and continued to go through the house. 1980 & 2010 vette in garage along with tvs of all shapes and size. They went through the whole house and didn't take a thing. The cop says they are looking for gold,silver and prescription drugs. They need stuff small so they can make a getaway with out looking to suspicious. The only time you see guns stolen is if the robber has a buyer on the other end. At least this is what the sheriff told me. Me personally I only care about an over-under my dad gave me, all the other ones my insurance can replace. Yes I have a stack-on. And yes I have about $3000 in reloading gear in my garage, they can have my rock crusher it needs replaced due to me worrying about getting enough rounds made for the weekend to go shooting.

 

[neoinarien]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sootstorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not purchased for theft protection, more to keep away from visiting children. running through the house, playing hide and seek in the house you all know the senarios </div></div>

+1

 

[oldgrayone]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

A thief will get what they want, a quick money crack head will just grab what they can. Most home robberies are done in under 5 min. I have a large cheap ($1000) Cannon safe that I have bolted down and the only way it can be tipped is on its face. If they want to go through the trouble of cutting the door with heat or tearing down the walls so they tip it on its back they can have it. The insurace will pick up the tab.

I think one key point is to not advertise.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

You want the technical answer to this question?

"Because a rational person takes precaution up until the point where the probability of a theft times the dollar value that would be lost is equal to the cost of precaution."

In other words, you'll only spent $5000 on a safe if the probability of a theft is .1 (10%) and you have $50k worth of (uninsured) stuff to lose.

Most of us don't get robbed every ten days, nor own $50k worth of guns that might get stolen. Therefore, it wouldn't be rational for us to expend that much taking precautionary methods against an extremely unlikely theft that is likely insured for the majority of its value.

In fact, insurance has such a strong distortionary effect on the market for things like safes and locks that they're far less popular than they'd otherwise be, in a world of no insurance.

 

[wildbill9ball]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

Ok I guess i have a cheap safe . It is a Zanotti . You can take it apart and put it back together. So it is put together in a small closet . so geting a pry bar on it would mean knocking down a wall . Also the 17lbs of gunpowder and 7000+ rounds of ammo should be a nice suprise if they cut into it.

http://www.zanottisafes.com/safes.htm

After the x-bicth left; this was the best i could do until i buy a house.

 

[jmanrogers]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

I'm glad I come across this thread. I was at a local gun dealer the other morning drinking coffee when a customer walked in and wanted the owner to come outside and see if he could help him. He was wanting to know if his guns could be reblued, stocks sanded and redone etc. He had his guns stored in safes (that he purchased from Wal-Mart) and recently had a house fire where it took the fire dept about 25min to get there and about 30min to extinguish the fire. When things cooled down he went straight for the safes (4 of them) and when he opened them up, the damage had already been done. Every gun, was completely charred black, barrels warped etc. A total lose of $37000. That's right, $37000. And to make things worse, he was remodeling the house and NO INSURANCE on it yet.

When it comes to a safe, you can spend $400 or $10000. So, when I went to purchase my safe, the first question wasn't, "How long will it take them to break into this one?", for me it was, "If I were to have a fire, how long do I have before I loose everything in the safe?" I live in the country, and it might take a while before anyone gets there, so this was important!

With that being said, I started my quest for a decent safe with a high fire rating. I went to Sam's, Academy Sporting Goods, local Tractor Supply looking, but I couldn't find a safe with over a 1hr fire rating, So, I went to another local gun dealer lastly, because #1 I figured he would be the most expensive and #2 I didn't think his safes were any better. Boy was I wrong! Not only did he have the largest selection of safes in town, but they had the highest fire ratings out of every other safe that I looked at, and they weren't that much more. I purchased the "PRESIDENTIAL" by Liberty Safes. I spent around $3500 for the safe including delivery.

I have been extremely happy with my purchase and piece of mind knowing that I have at least 2.5 hrs of the best fire protection on the market: 131,000 BTUs and more fireboard than any competitor with a fire rating @ 1200°F.

So with all that being said, you can never have enough protection!


http://www.libertysafe.com/

 

[Remoah]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

Any safe can be cracked. To me they serve little more purpose than to keep my little shit cousins from getting thier paws on them when they come visit.

Bolted to the wall, my $500 Bufflao River would probably present too much of a challenge to any FOB Islander looking to score himself a new DVD player and decides to go through either of the closets the safes are in.

Over here, we also are required by law to keep our guns in a safe, made of metal or hardwood, bolted to the floor if it weighs less than 150kg empty, and must be well locked.
Police are allowed to inspect these safes at any time to check if they're sturdy.

A 500kg safe with fingerprint-eye-scan bullshit locks and fire ratings will still be cracked by a determined burglar if they have the time. I know for a fact that with mine and the neighbours dogs, and with our street being populated mostly by retirees, familys and kids, that nobodys going to be able to spend more than a couple of minutes within the house before a neighbour comes over and knocks on the door...

 

[jwilly]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

A FORD! My first safe was a $400 Sentry and even at that it was more then I could afford. But many many years later and with kids not spending all my money I can afford to drive Fords and buy better safes (and more firearms)! Something is better then nothing. IMO

 

[Jackalope33B]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

I agree! I have seen numerous YouTube videos about prying open a safe, and bringing in forklifts to open the doors. How about we see a video with a safe standing up against a wall and bolted to the floor like it would be in a real life situation. Then lets see these YouTube guys and their 7' crowbars open the door while the safe is standing up? Hell, lets bring in a forklift, knock down a house wall, and drag the safe out

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TrooperBrian</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoredEngineer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For someone who plans on living in the same house for a while I wouldn't recommend those Costco Safes after seeing this video and checking one out for myself. Comparing my safe to the ones they sell at big box stores is night and day. Although they would probably have a much harder time in this video if the safe was bolted to the ground.

I figure if people will pay 1200 bucks for a quality AR-15 upper whats 1700 for a BF series Amsec. Like someone mentioned in this thread it is a valid investment. A good safe is something you can pass down to your kids especially if you plan on passing your guns down to them. The bottom line is the safe is supposed to do its job get what you feel will get the job done not the least you can spend to give yourself a false sense of security.

The only justification for a lower level (cheaper) safe is if the value of your guns don't warrant it or you have other reliable layers of security. Which may in some cases be a better plan.


<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nBhOjWHbD6M"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nBhOjWHbD6M" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>

Don't believe everything you see, that video is not even close to a fair assessment. Its like saying a Glock is unreliable when you shoot it sideways with two fingers and it jams.

Almost everyone who buys a safe of that size, WILL bolt it down. Personally, I would have it in a cove in the basement with a door. That means there isn't even room to pry, which will be true for most homes and basement. In order to remotely get that kind of leverage, you would have to remove that entire wall. </div></div>

 

[Jackalope33B]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

Im more worried about someone making entry into a safe rather than a 1500deg for 90min fire protection. My brother has been a fire fighter for over 20 years. He said that unless a house is fully involved, and the safe is in the middle of the house like the living room, then yea, you would need the fire protection because there is more "fuel" in the middle of the house. Alot of my friends have their safes in a room up against a wall where there is nothing around it. Im no engineer, but if I were to guess, I would say that the temp in the corner of a house will NOT get to over 1000deg, even if fully involved. There are fire departments within 5 miles of where I live. So at the most, you are looking at about a 10min response time until the fire department can get water on it. Even if your house is a total loss, you can always tell the fire department where you have the safe located, and they will keep water on it.

I guess there are pros and cons when it comes to buying a safe. Everyone has their opinion on what they "want" verus what they "need". Best advise is to read on the internet, talk to as mant companies as you can and go from there. But by all means, dont buy a safe from Walmart or Lowes.. AND when you do get your safe, BOLT IT DOWN TO THE CONCRETE!!!!!

BTW, I own a Liberty Franklin. For $2200 delivered, and bolted down, I couldnt go wrong..


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SGT. JMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm glad I come across this thread. I was at a local gun dealer the other morning drinking coffee when a customer walked in and wanted the owner to come outside and see if he could help him. He was wanting to know if his guns could be reblued, stocks sanded and redone etc. He had his guns stored in safes (that he purchased from Wal-Mart) and recently had a house fire where it took the fire dept about 25min to get there and about 30min to extinguish the fire. When things cooled down he went straight for the safes (4 of them) and when he opened them up, the damage had already been done. Every gun, was completely charred black, barrels warped etc. A total lose of $37000. That's right, $37000. And to make things worse, he was remodeling the house and NO INSURANCE on it yet.

When it comes to a safe, you can spend $400 or $10000. So, when I went to purchase my safe, the first question wasn't, "How long will it take them to break into this one?", for me it was, "If I were to have a fire, how long do I have before I loose everything in the safe?" I live in the country, and it might take a while before anyone gets there, so this was important!

With that being said, I started my quest for a decent safe with a high fire rating. I went to Sam's, Academy Sporting Goods, local Tractor Supply looking, but I couldn't find a safe with over a 1hr fire rating, So, I went to another local gun dealer lastly, because #1 I figured he would be the most expensive and #2 I didn't think his safes were any better. Boy was I wrong! Not only did he have the largest selection of safes in town, but they had the highest fire ratings out of every other safe that I looked at, and they weren't that much more. I purchased the "PRESIDENTIAL" by Liberty Safes. I spent around $3500 for the safe including delivery.

I have been extremely happy with my purchase and piece of mind knowing that I have at least 2.5 hrs of the best fire protection on the market: 131,000 BTUs and more fireboard than any competitor with a fire rating @ 1200°F.

So with all that being said, you can never have enough protection!


http://www.libertysafe.com/
</div></div>

 

[ronas]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been extremely happy with my purchase and piece of mind knowing that I have at least 2.5 hrs of the best fire protection on the market: 131,000 BTUs and more fireboard than any competitor with a fire rating @ 1200°F.</div></div>
I'm in market for safe too. I am leaning towards Strudy Safe. I don't think they give thier safes a fire or TL rating becasue it would be to expensive to have UL test every model in their line tested however often UL requires such things.

I'm somewhat dissapointed that none of the so called safes I've looked at have TL or UL ratings with the exception of maybe one or two very, very expensive safes. I'm considering getting one with no fire lining at all.

Some of the safe companies just say they have a fire rating of whatever, without saying who or how the test was conducted.

 

[shooter19802003]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

I think you should taylor your security to your needs. I don't believe in the one size fits all scenario. With most, your budget comes into play aswell. If you live in town your needs are different than somebody who lives miles from another house.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

Most "gun" safes are all hype anyway.

The only way to get a real safe is to get it from somewhere that deals in safes designed to prevent thefts. The safes sold to lock up guns are all marketing. You pay more for the paint than the actual safe.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

I have a $79 StakOn that is in plane view from the front door. It has 2 BB guns and a $50, 22 rifle that's broken.

The big safe can't be seen unless I show it to you after unlocking the doors.

 

[Big Bo]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wildbill9ball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok I guess i have a cheap safe . It is a Zanotti . You can take it apart and put it back together. So it is put together in a small closet . so geting a pry bar on it would mean knocking down a wall . Also the 17lbs of gunpowder and 7000+ rounds of ammo should be a nice suprise if they cut into it.

http://www.zanottisafes.com/safes.htm

After the x-bicth left; this was the best i could do until i buy a house. </div></div>

I left her. Best thing I have done in a long time. Waiting to buy a house and a bigger, heavier, thicker safe, and a puppy.

Good luck Bro.

 

[Big Bo]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SGT. JMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm glad I come across this thread. I was at a local gun dealer the other morning drinking coffee when a customer walked in and wanted the owner to come outside and see if he could help him. He was wanting to know if his guns could be reblued, stocks sanded and redone etc. He had his guns stored in safes (that he purchased from Wal-Mart) and recently had a house fire where it took the fire dept about 25min to get there and about 30min to extinguish the fire. When things cooled down he went straight for the safes (4 of them) and when he opened them up, the damage had already been done. Every gun, was completely charred black, barrels warped etc. A total lose of $37000. That's right, $37000. And to make things worse, he was remodeling the house and NO INSURANCE on it yet.

When it comes to a safe, you can spend $400 or $10000. So, when I went to purchase my safe, the first question wasn't, "How long will it take them to break into this one?", for me it was, "If I were to have a fire, how long do I have before I loose everything in the safe?" I live in the country, and it might take a while before anyone gets there, so this was important!

With that being said, I started my quest for a decent safe with a high fire rating. I went to Sam's, Academy Sporting Goods, local Tractor Supply looking, but I couldn't find a safe with over a 1hr fire rating, So, I went to another local gun dealer lastly, because #1 I figured he would be the most expensive and #2 I didn't think his safes were any better. Boy was I wrong! Not only did he have the largest selection of safes in town, but they had the highest fire ratings out of every other safe that I looked at, and they weren't that much more. I purchased the "PRESIDENTIAL" by Liberty Safes. I spent around $3500 for the safe including delivery.

I have been extremely happy with my purchase and piece of mind knowing that I have at least 2.5 hrs of the best fire protection on the market: 131,000 BTUs and more fireboard than any competitor with a fire rating @ 1200°F.

So with all that being said, you can never have enough protection!


http://www.libertysafe.com/
</div></div>

If kyou have not been hit by theives, or loss it all in a fire it is real easy to get defensive and LOL about issues that have not hit home.

Thank you for the post, and you bought peace of mind for yourself.

 

[Natep]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

Safe....what safe?

 

[Big Bo]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most "gun" safes are all hype anyway.

The only way to get a real safe is to get it from somewhere that deals in safes designed to prevent thefts. The safes sold to lock up guns are all marketing. You pay more for the paint than the actual safe. </div></div>

And you actually believe this?

Is this alot of paint and less safe?
http://www.amsecusa.com/Gun_Safes/BF_Series_Gun_Safes/

 

[wreckingball]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

hmmmmmmmmm no price

 

[Furtaker_.223]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what brand do you have your guns in?</div></div>
Concrete, Walk-in

 

[Big Bo]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wreck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hmmmmmmmmm no price </div></div>

If you are refering to the Amsec, get the name and info of any product you are interested in. Type into Google, and when it comes up, look up at the top of the web page and you will see

Web Images Videos Maps News Shopping Gmail

click shopping and prices of most items will come up.

Just trying to help.

 

[Jackalope33B]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

Not to get off topic. But anyone have one of these: http://www.deansafe.com/sesalidilo.html

Looks like Ill be getting one..

 

[Remoah]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jackalope33B</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are fire departments within 5 miles of where I live. So at the most, you are looking at about a 10min response time until the fire department can get water on it. Even if your house is a total loss, you can always tell the fire department where you have the safe located, and they will keep water on it.
</div></div>

You must not be a firefighter then.
Even within that distance, it could still take them up to 10 minutes to arrive at your house. If by the time neighbours start seeing smoke, it'll have easily engulfed multiple rooms by the point that they arrive.
Then they have to show water, connect the pumper to a mains supply, and even then if your house is truly going up I can tell you now, if you came to my captain and asked him to keep water on a certain part of the house he'd tell you where to shove it.

 

[Jackalope33B]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

If I were a firefighter would I be quoting what my brother said, or going off of experience myself? I never said I was a firefighter. I already said it will take up to 10 minutes for them to arrive. There is no connecting "mains to a pumper", our trucks here carry plenty of water, and more than one truck shows up on a structure fire. I guess since you are from Australia there are kangaroos showing up with water in their pouches huh?
Please let a captain tell me to shove it, Ill be more than happy to have his pension when it is all over and done with. Knowing he could have prevented more loss is something any attorney would be all over.
Later Mate

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Remoah</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jackalope33B</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are fire departments within 5 miles of where I live. So at the most, you are looking at about a 10min response time until the fire department can get water on it. Even if your house is a total loss, you can always tell the fire department where you have the safe located, and they will keep water on it.
</div></div>

You must not be a firefighter then.
Even within that distance, it could still take them up to 10 minutes to arrive at your house. If by the time neighbours start seeing smoke, it'll have easily engulfed multiple rooms by the point that they arrive.
Then they have to show water, connect the pumper to a mains supply, and even then if your house is truly going up I can tell you now, if you came to my captain and asked him to keep water on a certain part of the house he'd tell you where to shove it. </div></div>

 

[downhill]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

Being a contract welder, I built my own.1/4 plate for the walls,roof and floor. 3/8 plate(boxed and reenforced),six 1 1/4 stainless locking studs. Combination lock with a coded key security deadbolt(into locking mechanism) as a backup. Three inches of KaoWool fireproof insulation with heat expansion gasket. And the Burgalar Bomb O.C.cannister as a failsafe. May be overkill but I don't beleive I have to worry about the contents.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Big Bo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most "gun" safes are all hype anyway.

The only way to get a real safe is to get it from somewhere that deals in safes designed to prevent thefts. The safes sold to lock up guns are all marketing. You pay more for the paint than the actual safe. </div></div>

And you actually believe this?

Is this alot of paint and less safe?
http://www.amsecusa.com/Gun_Safes/BF_Series_Gun_Safes/ </div></div>

It doesn't say how thick it is, you tell me?

If it's not at least 1/4" thick steel, it's a joke as far as I'm concerned.

Spending thousands of dollars for paint and fancy fire protection crap doesn't do you a damn bit of good when the most important thing a safe can do is make it difficult for a thief.

 

[ronas]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

Most of the so called safes are RSC(residental security containers). They have no UL fire rating and no TL ratings.

The AMSEC safe mentioned earlier has if I'm not mistake only 11gauge steel for body. It is what it is, and you can call it whatever you like.

 

[chris223]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

With the alarm screaming and strobe lights flashing and phone ringing from the alarm company whoever is in my house will not be in there long enough to get the family jewels.
And its been my experiance with the people I know when they are doing a burglary They like cash / jewelry / creditcards
most of them dont want to be seen leaving the residence
with an armfull of long guns . In my bedroom I keep
The cheap i.e. fake jewelry / knock off rolex / expired creditcards in a nice jewelry box thats the bait they can take it and run . The typical crackhead / burglar doesnt worry me as much as the home invasion type scenario .
The good stuff is locked down and insured.

 

[jmanrogers]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Big Bo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SGT. JMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm glad I come across this thread. I was at a local gun dealer the other morning drinking coffee when a customer walked in and wanted the owner to come outside and see if he could help him. He was wanting to know if his guns could be reblued, stocks sanded and redone etc. He had his guns stored in safes (that he purchased from Wal-Mart) and recently had a house fire where it took the fire dept about 25min to get there and about 30min to extinguish the fire. When things cooled down he went straight for the safes (4 of them) and when he opened them up, the damage had already been done. Every gun, was completely charred black, barrels warped etc. A total lose of $37000. That's right, $37000. And to make things worse, he was remodeling the house and NO INSURANCE on it yet.

When it comes to a safe, you can spend $400 or $10000. So, when I went to purchase my safe, the first question wasn't, "How long will it take them to break into this one?", for me it was, "If I were to have a fire, how long do I have before I loose everything in the safe?" I live in the country, and it might take a while before anyone gets there, so this was important!

With that being said, I started my quest for a decent safe with a high fire rating. I went to Sam's, Academy Sporting Goods, local Tractor Supply looking, but I couldn't find a safe with over a 1hr fire rating, So, I went to another local gun dealer lastly, because #1 I figured he would be the most expensive and #2 I didn't think his safes were any better. Boy was I wrong! Not only did he have the largest selection of safes in town, but they had the highest fire ratings out of every other safe that I looked at, and they weren't that much more. I purchased the "PRESIDENTIAL" by Liberty Safes. I spent around $3500 for the safe including delivery.

I have been extremely happy with my purchase and piece of mind knowing that I have at least 2.5 hrs of the best fire protection on the market: 131,000 BTUs and more fireboard than any competitor with a fire rating @ 1200°F.

So with all that being said, you can never have enough protection!


http://www.libertysafe.com/
</div></div>

If kyou have not been hit by theives, or loss it all in a fire it is real easy to get defensive and LOL about issues that have not hit home.

Thank you for the post, and you bought peace of mind for yourself. </div></div>


Why would you say, "If you have not been hit by thieves, or lost it all in a fire it is real easy to get defensive and LOL about issues that have not hit home."

I never got defense and I never LOL. I was just making a statement from my point of view. By the way, I have lost everything in a house fire back in 1984 and lost everything in a flood do to Gustav in 2009. Neither by the way a laughing matter. I have never hit by thieves and I hope I never will.

If one were to purchase a quality safe and spend the extra money then they too should have piece of mind. If you have to worry then it's because your probably a CHEAP ASS!

Your welcome for the post and I would tell you to kiss my ass, but that would be defensive on my part and by the way, I'm LOL!

 

[Big Bo]

Re: Why do you buy cheep safes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Big Bo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most "gun" safes are all hype anyway.

The only way to get a real safe is to get it from somewhere that deals in safes designed to prevent thefts. The safes sold to lock up guns are all marketing. You pay more for the paint than the actual safe. </div></div>

And you actually believe this?

Is this alot of paint and less safe?
http://www.amsecusa.com/Gun_Safes/BF_Series_Gun_Safes/ </div></div>

It doesn't say how thick it is, you tell me?

If it's not at least 1/4" thick steel, it's a joke as far as I'm concerned.

Spending thousands of dollars for paint and fancy fire protection crap doesn't do you a damn bit of good when the most important thing a safe can do is make it difficult for a thief. </div></div>

I took it the other way around. I am truly sorry for the mix up. You and I are on the same page. I do apologize.