Rifle Scopes why does a scope

[BMelton]

Re: why does a scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, I didnt think the OP was all that bad but everyone sure is jumping on the "trash his ass" wagon.
Anyway, Its pretty obvious why a Farrari cost more to build than a Pinto. From tires (which are at lest 10 times higher on the Far.) to the tech. in the brakeing system, drivetran, metalurgy and tighter tollerances in an engine thats built to make 600 hp and turn those extreem rpms to the high quality interiors, and fit and finish of everything. Ever really looked at the paint on a Farrari or Lambo? The difference isnt quite as obvious on scopes. Like I said before, not trying to be a smart ass but I'd really like to see some "facts" on why and how a NF is 5 times more expencive to produce than what he's talking about. And please, somthing besides "its clearer".
okie </div></div>

With all due respect......Call NF and ask them.....I dont think ANYONE on this forum is a NF build expert. not trying to get out of my cage but i can see why NF is higher than Tasco...etc. etc. tracking clarity. options ZERO....RETURN TO ZERO. EVERY SINGLE TASCO I have ever owned whether it be for an air rifle or 223 doesnt EVER hold a zero and track like its "supposed" to and return to the original zero and key-hole a shot. I have owned a NF and the differences are obvious to me without having to give and "explanation"


Bryan

 

[flyboy]

Re: why does a scope

If you shoot like you say you shoot, then you already know the answers to your questions. If not, GOOGLE.

 

[FALbert]

Re: why does a scope

Quality cost money. Precision parts cost money. While I like my WOTAC and Falcon scopes, and these serve my purposes fine for a range gun and limited field use, they certainly are not on par with my Nightforce, and I'll dare say my Leupold, when it comes to the glass and ruggedness. I knew this when I bought them. I also knew one day I'd replace them when I have the extra cash, which these days seems to be never.

 

[Winfree]

Re: why does a scope

Well good morning everyone. Boy I never thought this post would get so many replys and so few answers. BTW you all are welcome to come out shooting with me anytime you want. I really enjoy that shooting and I have order the NF. That is why I was asking why it cost so much but really I don't want to mess up the bashing. I have said thanks to the ones that gave a good answer. But please keep it up. This is some funny reads. If any of you in the local area want to get out from behind the key board and do some shooting let me know. I'm working up some reloads for the next time out and I'll see if I can tighten up my group. I'll be shooting while most of you are typeing about how great you are. Good luck with that. See you on the range. Next Range trip out to a 1000 is the 14th.

 

[rogue308]

Re: why does a scope

Winfree....I've only been on here a little longer than you so this might sound funny coming from me but I can tell you right now from what I know about this site that what you're doing isn't the way to go around here. It's becoming a little pistonpeteish. You said you're a group shooter yourself. I guess that explains a lot. Good luck.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: why does a scope

.....Boltripper sips his GREEN TEA.......

 

[Red_SC]

Re: why does a scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rest of the posters on this thread reminded me why I do not post much on this site. It almost seems like they are sitting around waiting to pounce on someone. Anyway I do enjoy reading the site and learning from it but some of you guys really need to be a little nicer. God bless.


you come here for guidance and answers.....and you get the answers even when you don't subscribe to the way things are.....

your ongoing education and a thicker hide shall come with time.....and maybe then you can also contribute instead of being a whiner </div></div>


Since there were no quotes I read the first few sentences as if written by BR and thought the second sign of the Apocalypse in one day had occured on the 'hide (the first today being a link to an Oprah clip)

</div></div>

You and me both. I looked back just to make sure it was Boltripper. I'd hate to see the servers try to handle the load if he started posting a lot!

To the OP, check out the variable SWFA SS. Sounds like just what you're looking for.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: why does a scope

Regarding the true aspect of this thread, that being the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse, times sure are getting scary.

And High-tech. I didn't know that they made saddles with microwaves in em.

As for these comparisons, regarding cost, quality, warranty, and all that. Why hasn't anyone brought up a "comparison surgery"?

Like for example, an appendectomy. It's just a scalpel, they're cheap, so why so much money? And if you go south of the border, you can get it done in a back alley, for like, 20 bucks. What's that in Peso's. Give em a tip, and you might even get ether to breathe.

Are we on the same page here?

 

[Rassmussen]

Re: why does a scope

Well, I'll throw in my two cents...

In any given market, for any given item, the price will be determined by the relationship between the customers willingness to pay and the companies willingness to sell. If the price of an item is to high, people will not buy the item since it is to expensive. If the price is to low, the suppliers/producers will not sell since they are unable to make money. This crosspoint is referred to as the market equilibrium. Now this only applies to markets that are "open" in the sense that you have many suppliers and many buyers. I would argue that the market for riflescopes does not fit this description. Consumer theory states that for any given income, the marginal utility will decrease the more you consume. This sounds way more technical than it sounds, all it means is that the first hamburger you eat you will appreciate more than the 50th one you eat. Since riflescopes and hamburgers are not interchangeable, we are dealing with separate markets. (DOH!) One is a common commodity, the other is a specialty item. So, since most people buy only one, or a few scopes, their willingness to pay will be higher than if they bought a hundred (at least theoretically)

Most people don't buy riflescopes. We may all like to think that all people should, but they don't. We are dealing with a marginal market, meaning that the number of scopes being sold is reasonably low. Some producers may be able to achieve a very low price to production cost ratio. However, as long as the consumer is willing to pay a high price, the price will not go down. Also, people are willing to pay more for an item that is perceived to have better qualities than another. (better glass, repeatable clicks, Made in the US, made in Germany etc...)

Now, I have no idea how much it costs to make a riflescope, nor do I really care. I live in a world where the markets are global, and I buy my junk where the price is reasonable. For instance, I would never buy a NF scope here in Norway. They are just do damn expensive. The 5,5-22x56 costs almost $3200 here in Norway. That's just plain stupid, and there is a clear mismatch between customers willingness to pay, and the willingness to sell. NF scopes are very rare in Norway because of this. I am willing to pay the $2000 it will cost for the scope and have it shipped to me, but not more.

Now NF policy explicitly prohibits the export of their scopes from one market to another, a policy I personally find repulsive. (most retail sellers do not care, but some do) They also have a rather strict price policy, which in my opinion is bad for consumers. However, NF are free to do as they like. It's their product, and they do with it as they like. As long as people put up with it and buy their stuff, nothing will change.

My point is, as long as you have a good product, people will be willing to pay a higher price for it. Keeping prices artificially high, will work for a limited time. Sooner or later the market will adjust, and you will loose market shares.

-R

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: why does a scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why does a scope cost so much. There is no way it cost $2000 to make a scope. I just don't see it. I wonder what the real cost is for making a NF or a Z. It looks like they make $1500 a scope. Anyone know the answer for this?</div></div>

Your perception is that they're expensive. Only products that do not satisfy are expensive.

 

[gewgaw]

Re: why does a scope

Actually, if the OP is already shooting 1 MOA at 1,000 yards "no problem" with his current set up, why bother upgrading the scope? That's better than I can do!

 

[deadly0311]

Re: why does a scope

Hey Winfree, ill take you up on that offer. There is a tactical match on Nov 14th in Fremont NC. Ill pay your entry fee but if you dont shoot MOA throughout the whole course of fire, you owe me the entry fee. PM J Boyette for the details and to get on the list. Better hurry, now the ball is in your court, time to see if you ass can cash the check your mouth wrote

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: why does a scope

I think it was a question to get his post count up or find out were to score some of the Unobtanium

 

[BMelton]

Re: why does a scope

BOLTRIPPER........YOU ARE FREAKIN HILARIOUS....but on a serious note....things are a little out of hand

 

[OFIS]

Re: why does a scope

if anyone complains that p.rifle shooting is expensive ive got 2 words for them:

air soft

 

[gabstersmoma]

Re: why does a scope

BAAAAHHHHHHH, HAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAA........Air Soft. For those super top secret, special forces, black opps, mall ninjas!

 

[okiefired]

Re: why does a scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMelton</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, I didnt think the OP was all that bad but everyone sure is jumping on the "trash his ass" wagon.
Anyway, Its pretty obvious why a Farrari cost more to build than a Pinto. From tires (which are at lest 10 times higher on the Far.) to the tech. in the brakeing system, drivetran, metalurgy and tighter tollerances in an engine thats built to make 600 hp and turn those extreem rpms to the high quality interiors, and fit and finish of everything. Ever really looked at the paint on a Farrari or Lambo? The difference isnt quite as obvious on scopes. Like I said before, not trying to be a smart ass but I'd really like to see some "facts" on why and how a NF is 5 times more expencive to produce than what he's talking about. And please, somthing besides "its clearer".
okie </div></div>

With all due respect......Call NF and ask them.....I dont think ANYONE on this forum is a NF build expert. not trying to get out of my cage but i can see why NF is higher than Tasco...etc. etc. tracking clarity. options ZERO....RETURN TO ZERO. EVERY SINGLE TASCO I have ever owned whether it be for an air rifle or 223 doesnt EVER hold a zero and track like its "supposed" to and return to the original zero and key-hole a shot. I have owned a NF and the differences are obvious to me without having to give and "explanation"


Bryan </div></div>


With all due respect, this is an open forum and I'll ask who I want. People who work for NF are probably NF build experts and I'm pretty sure thay have been represented here a time or two. Its my understanding that Super Snipers were (and my still be, dont keep up with them) built by Tasco. Think they sell for a little over $300. It wasnt that long ago that if you had a problem with a SS, you sent it to Tasco for repair. People on here are constantly raving about thier rugedness, clarity, ability to track and return to zero so like I said, the differences arent near as obvious in scopes. I never asked for an "explanation", just wanted to see sume facts. May want a NF myself but I'd really like some facts before I lay down that kind of cash. BTW, if your bullets are "keyholing", you've got a whole other set of problems to get worked out. I'm afraid this threads not going anywhere but down, I think I'm done.

okie

 

[Winfree]

Re: why does a scope

WOW, Lets look over the thread. I ask a simple questions. I got a lot of bashing. I only posted four times I think in this thread. I thanked the ones that gave a good reply to include LL. So where is the drama? It isn't from me. But it was some good reading.
I do think you for the offer to shoot with you but as I said I will be on 66d on base shooting this Saturday. Anyone that has a good zero is welcome to come out and shoot. Sorry if I offend someone because I asked a question. If anyone is trying to get there post count up in this thread it wasn't me. But I do hope to see some of you on the range soon. God bless.

 

[flyboy]

Re: why does a scope

Can we get a BS flag smily for the replys?

 

[sharac]

Re: why does a scope

One must also take into account that rich people are willing to pay large sums of money for anything that is new/stands out and hence many bussinesses exists merely to provide rich people feeling and confirmation they are something more than an average joe. I think same goes for shooting sport there are those who hunt for microgroups hence a whole niche for bussinesses to make rifles shoot oneholers all day long etc... With scopes its pretty much the same if people were able to shoot each other with muskets and in WWII with 4x powered scopes (which by the way still function perfectly and are quite useful for their intended purpose) one cannot state nthat new modern fancv scopes are what is needed to get the job done. There must be an extra component present which increases the end price to what they are now.

Basically today we can manufacture excellent rifles/scopes however price of those units won't be nowhere near that which majority would call reasonable however if there is market for those why ask questions how is the price determined since we all know that costs to manuf + labor for a long long long time don't equal end price. If one bitches about things he can't afford and their price its mostly because of envy and that is no good.

 

[Lindy]

Re: why does a scope

Two-thirds of U.S. domestic GDP is produced by consumer discretionary spending, which is economist-speak for "selling stuff to people who don't need it."

When people stop or slow down on buying stuff they don't need, you have exactly what's going on now - a recession, or even a depression.

So, applaud people who are buying stuff they don't need. The economy depends upon it, and so do a lot of jobs!

 

[Rafael]

Re: why does a scope

Good point, Lindy.

 

[sharac]

Re: why does a scope

Bullshit...

What we've got now is stick up our ass for being arogant enough to think this consumer spiral won't end. It has ended and it will hurt and rightly so for not learning from history...

Quality of life in modern age compared to few decades ago is shitty at best, people are brainwashed and implanted with needs that are totally unnecessary but hey noone said civilizations need to last for ever and ours is certainly dying if not dead allready.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: why does a scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bullshit...

What we've got now is stick up our ass for being arogant enough to think this consumer spiral won't end. It has ended and it will hurt and rightly so for not learning from history...

Quality of life in modern age compared to few decades ago is shitty at best, people are brainwashed and implanted with needs that are totally unnecessary but hey noone said civilizations need to last for ever and ours is certainly dying if not dead allready.</div></div>

I think the quality of life will improve for all here in the U.S., as a recession requires focus on things important rather than the distractions we often seek.

 

[steelcomp]

Re: why does a scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bullshit...

What we've got now is stick up our ass for being arogant enough to think this consumer spiral won't end. It has ended and it will hurt and rightly so for not learning from history...

Quality of life in modern age compared to few decades ago is shitty at best, people are brainwashed and implanted with needs that are totally unnecessary but hey noone said civilizations need to last for ever and ours is certainly dying if not dead allready. </div></div>Nice. You forgot to take your Zanex, didn't you.
This country was an experiment that started over 200 yrs ago. The vision of our forefathers was remarkable and genius. As long as we were living in the model they set forth, we were a phenomenally successful country, but as time goes, and as we move further and further away from what they subscribed as a means for a civilization to succeed and prosper, we will continue to do exactly the opposite, and as we are. Capitalism and a free market are key, the the freedom of each to do as they will with their earnings without confiscatory taxation by an out of control government.

 

[Lindy]

Re: why does a scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quality of life in modern age compared to few decades ago is shitty at best...</div></div>

In what ways do you think the quality of life was better a few decades ago than it is now?

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: why does a scope

WOW were do I start how about bullshit. Yah that works. You obviously have not stared down 3 different levels of scope quality to make an experienced evaluation. It is CLEAR to me when I put my daughters tasco on her .22 next to my HK91's SS next to my Windrunners NXS 5.5X22X56 all on the same power of 10X you can easily see the difference in quality at each and every step from the image quality, to the parallax, to the light gathering capability etc. etc. To say it is just a way a wealthy person has the ability to thumb there noses at the poor sounds like sour grapes to me. I am not wealthy although at a time I was, my choice to give it up. Back on track I have tools that cost $20K each scan tools for my work that I purchased. I have impact guns that are $600 a piece. I could go down the cheapo Harbor freight etc. and pick one up for $60 but they won't make my job easier. I could give a shit less if someone see's my impact and goes WOW that's the composite 1200 foot pound impact that thing is a lot money. A professional gets the best equipment he can to make his job faster, better, safer, more fun, etc. Sounds to me like you had a lot of friends that did well for themselves and you got left behind. Don't be jealous just try harder.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One must also take into account that rich people are willing to pay large sums of money for anything that is new/stands out and hence many bussinesses exists merely to provide rich people feeling and confirmation they are something more than an average joe. I think same goes for shooting sport there are those who hunt for microgroups hence a whole niche for bussinesses to make rifles shoot oneholers all day long etc... With scopes its pretty much the same if people were able to shoot each other with muskets and in WWII with 4x powered scopes (which by the way still function perfectly and are quite useful for their intended purpose) one cannot state nthat new modern fancv scopes are what is needed to get the job done. There must be an extra component present which increases the end price to what they are now.
</div></div>

 

[steelcomp]

Re: why does a scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One must also take into account that rich people are willing to pay large sums of money for anything that is new/stands out and hence many bussinesses exists merely to provide rich people feeling and confirmation they are something more than an average joe. I think same goes for shooting sport there are those who hunt for microgroups hence a whole niche for bussinesses to make rifles shoot oneholers all day long etc... With scopes its pretty much the same if people were able to shoot each other with muskets and in WWII with 4x powered scopes (which by the way still function perfectly and are quite useful for their intended purpose) one cannot state nthat new modern fancv scopes are what is needed to get the job done. There must be an extra component present which increases the end price to what they are now.

Basically today we can manufacture excellent rifles/scopes however price of those units won't be nowhere near that which majority would call reasonable however if there is market for those why ask questions how is the price determined since we all know that costs to manuf + labor for a long long long time don't equal end price. If one bitches about things he can't afford and their price its mostly because of envy and that is no good. </div></div>Hate to say it, but you sound to be a bit envious yourself. And somewhat bitter.
Just sayin...

 

[Dan8385]

Re: why does a scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bullshit...

What we've got now is stick up our ass for being arogant enough to think this consumer spiral won't end. It has ended and it will hurt and rightly so for not learning from history...

Quality of life in modern age compared to few decades ago is shitty at best, people are brainwashed and implanted with needs that are totally unnecessary but hey noone said civilizations need to last for ever and ours is certainly dying if not dead allready.</div></div>


2012!!!!!! AAAHHHHH

 

[sharac]

Re: why does a scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hate to say it, but you sound to be a bit envious yourself. And somewhat bitter.
Just sayin...</div></div>

Might come out that way however i merely made a statement. My financial status is quite good. However even if i had unlimited amount of money i would not be willing to pay more based on exclusivity alone.
Bitter is perhaps to strong of a word, disappointed for sure...

 

[Magnumdood]

Re: why does a scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
With all due respect, this is an open forum and I'll ask who I want...
okie </div></div>
No.

This is a privately owned board. You post what Low Light allows you to post. Free speech and the 1st amendment don't exist here. You can be banned, your posts can be moved and edited...

We have a lot of latitude, but you aren't the final arbiter of what you get to post.