Why Gun Control Will Not Work

[Longshot231]

I thought I would start a thread on why gun control will not work.

With the collective brain trust on this forum we might be able to assemble a vast compendium of information to use when educating people that want to understand the issue.

I’ll start first.

 

[Thumper580]

Sadly, I don't think the people what to be educated....

 

[Bullfrog08]

Sadly, I don't think the people what to be educated....

I mean look at this sentence......

I kid, I kid!

 

[BullGear]

They won't have to legislate any part of their plan to take our guns. They already have their plan in place and you can see it in all aspects of our lives right now.

I fear the outcome of this government. The changes made in our society in just 2.5 short months is frightening. Imagine the devastation that will come in almost 4 years. By that time, they will have all elections fixed for the Democrat party and we will be nothing more than servants.

That is unless something is done very soon...

 

[lht645]

I suppose it all depends on what you think "Gun Control" is attempting to accomplish.

 

[quietmike]

Congress passed the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act in 1915, fully regulating coca leaves (cocaine) and opium derivatives. This made it illegal to manufacture, possess, transport, buy, sell, or consume these items without government approval.
After over 100 years of full regulation, we still had an opioid crisis.

 

[seanh]

The reason why gun control won't work is because people have been killing each other since beginning of time.

 

[n0glock]

Or the glaring fact that felons who should not have guns commit the vast majority of crimes with guns. Chicago has had gun control for a very long time, how well does it work. Have the Feds actually enforce the laws on the books it might help. Where I live it is almost impossible to get someone charged federally.

 

[HMRamateur]

I seem to remember something like alcohol control and drug control not working either

 

[theLBC]

 

[steve podleski]

it's very simple. Gun control has nothing to do with reducing crime. It's all about reducing your rights to own firearms through inch by inch 'common sense' legislation.

 

[SilentStalkr]

You know, if enough people just say no we can combat this crap. 80,000,000-120,000,000 armed Americans ain’t nothing to sneeze at. Problem is we need leadership and a plan. This can be beaten.

 

[addertooth]

I will borrow (and transmute) a line out of the movie "The Matrix". Most people are so connected to, and integrated with the system, that they will actively fight to support it. Many good paying jobs have the Employee in a "positions of trust" (Banking, Finance, Legal, Computers and Networking, Records, Management, Research, etc) . If someone gets a couple of gun charges, they have performed acts which are considered "un-trustable" and they can no longer be employed in those positions. Without those High Paying Jobs, they lose their homes, cars, way of life.

Some people have suggested various forms of uprising against draconian gun laws. For such a thing to happen, someone would have to take a leadership position to inspire and lead people to respond in a uniform fashion. A rebellion within a single town, would only draw a concentration of opposing force to quell such an event. It would end quickly. The press, in a uniform voice, would vilify of all the participants.

I don't believe that anyone can functionally gain a position of Leadership and Trust with the legal gun owning public. A decade ago they could have, but now social media has shown it is Quite Effective about blocking/banning/silencing any voices which do not conform to the party line. Political Voices have been shut down as well. Don't even consider voicing concerns about voting integrity, you will find yourself disconnected from society. Anyone wanting to have a scientific discussion about simple things like Covid and Immunizations have been very effectively silenced. If anyone were to step up and support any kind of "physical resistance" to gun control would simply be de-platformed, outed, doxed, and their employers would be pressured to terminate them. Most likely their spouses would also be equally handled. They would likely find the FBI at their doorway in short order.

All mass communication streams are now so well filtered and controlled, that information and ideas are more tightly censored than at any other point in modern human history. So no, I don't expect a Unifying Voice to appear on the scene. If it did, it will be silenced within a day, should it achieve any reasonable amount of influence and reach. Paper letters or Phone calls would be ineffective in a modern society; they are not a real option.

If anyone can't control themselves, I can only suggest you use the same tools as BLM and Antifa (Riots, Arson, Clubbing, thrown bricks/rocks, etc). At least this approach won't give the government the opportunity to point at guns which were used in the mayhem. At this point it is clear the Government is actively seeking any kind of gun violence to use as a Reason or Justification for their actions. For the lawful public, I only hope you are proactive in stopping any bad gun acts by others. The left really hates the "good guy with a gun narrative".

Some may read this, and only see it as capitulation. This is not the intent. Rather, I am simply pointing out the cliff in front of us.... and providing a caution to those who might be tempted to step over it. The left has worked for decades to get us in the exact position we find ourselves in. They have put a lot of thought into it. We must thoughtfully consider "how we got here" and what method will be the best way to reverse the current trend. It will not be easy.

 

[GTOJOSH]

A friend if mine has organized a "let freedom ring" steel shoot thing for the 4th of July. Take folks shooting, post it up, get on the watch list, get a no knock visit from the new administration where body bags... too soon? I agree with the above post, that maybe the time to make a difference without repercussions has passed, nonetheless a difference of people standing together for Liberty will be, and always has been, the only curb to a Despotic Government. We are all going about our busy lives, unorganized, and feeling like we lost our voice, but together we are the majority if we can just unify.

 

[Peloton]

One word: Chicago

 

[Texasflyer]

Hell yeah gun control works for me.... i usually hit my target... lol. I was in the gunshop the other day and met an old man wearing a veitnam vet hat. I was picking up the mauser and he kinda perked up when he saw i was buying something a little more classic. We got to talking and it turned to primers. He asked if i knew anywhere that was selling shotgun primers... he had never reloaded before in his life, so i said follow me and sold him 400 for the cost on the boxes. Got a few neat stories out of the deal too. I have decided to try when i can to share what i can.im not big on dipping into my supplies for others, but i think thats what its gonna take to keep ammo around. Reload primers if ya have to, pee on some leaves in the same spot in the yard all the time just in case.

 

[Longshot231]

This speech was made a couple of years ago. Quite a lot has happened since then but the salient points in her speech are that gun control isn't about controlling a device but controlling people and the rampant hypocrisy of the left.

 

[Maggot]

Congress passed the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act in 1915, fully regulating coca leaves (cocaine) and opium derivatives. This made it illegal to manufacture, possess, transport, buy, sell, or consume these items without government approval.
After over 100 years of full regulation, we still had have an opioid crisis.

Sorry, I HAD to.

And cocaine is cheaper than ever, so Im told.

 

[Maggot]

One word: Chicago

Ill see your Chicago and raise you a New Zealand.

 

[Maggot]

Unfortunately, it is working. Replacement therapy, for lack of a better name. Rural America is being 'replaced' by Urban Americans who live in condos and townhomes and controlled by frightened liberal little twats named Ken and Karen. By undocumented immigrants who are given $15,000 by rich NY politicians and told to vote democratic and theyll keep getting their check. Barring a miracle its only a matter of time.

 

[Kamerad]

1934, 1968, 1986, 1993 suggest otherwise. CA, NY, NJ, IL, DC, WA, OR and so on and so forth.

That said, this is a multi-generational fight, and it ain’t over by a long shot.

 

[Animal357]

Sadly, I don't think the people what to be educated....

FIFY Sadly, I don't think the people can be educated....

 

[addertooth]

I will throw in a modifier. People want to "believe" they are informed, because nobody likes to look stupid. The problem is, so many of the voices out in the press are singing one song, and in unison. Those listening to that unified voice, actually believe they are educated and wise. They believe that those who are not listening to the Single Voice of (ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, etc) are the ones who are sadly mistaken. People tend to believe the opinion they hear Most Often. People often believe that if they hear 20 voices that say "yes", and 5 voices that say "no", the majority must be correct. It is a failure of our social system, and people have lost the ability to think independently and in a critical fashion. Part of this is rooted in the dumbing down of how History is taught. It was always the Bold men who plotted their own path who made history. Nobody was ever painted favorably in history for "going along with the group-thought, or following the herd". I would bet history is no longer taught in the way it was decades ago. Most of the youth today seem incapable of being different (in a GOOD way). Those who can are pearls, and to be fully supported.

Summary: those on the left actually believe they have been well informed. They have heard a consistent message from all of their popular news sources. They have heard it from dozens of speakers, from several different news networks. Helping them understand their sources are Broken, will be quite difficult.

 

[Trapshooter12]

I ran across a guy at my local range Friday as he was driving in I got the feeling this was going to be different.
The guy gets out of his car and starts bringing his stuff to the line and as I was watching he seemed unsure of his self. He looks at my Rifle and says that's a big one and then asked me what it is. I told him it was a 260 and gets a deer in the headlight look. I told him it was a necked down 308 he then says is that bigger than a 50 caliber and it was my turn with the deer in the headlight look. He said he was new to firearms.

I asked what he had and he had an AR and a 300 Winmag he was trying to get sighted in.

He then told me he was getting ready for the war and that he thought it was going to happen soon.

I saw as he was shooting he had cringe worthy issues so I help get his AR on paper.

My point in all of this is gun control is not going to work with new people drawing their line in the sand.

 

[Milo 2.5]

This needs to play out in it's fullest.

Maryland becomes first state to repeal police Bill of Rights, overriding Hogan veto

 

[MrSmith]

Harrison Act, 1915
Prohibition, 1920
War on drugs, 1971
Just say no, 1982

They's 0 for 4.

Thank you,
MrSmith

 

[Maggot]

Harrison Act, 1915
Prohibition, 1920
War on drugs, 1971
Just say no, 1982

They's 0 for 4.

Thank you,
MrSmith

Different scenario.

People can understand the right to ingest whatever they want into their own bodies as long as you dont harm anyone.

They have a more difficult time understanding continual mass shootings where lots of people are harmed including infants. You and I know its the person not the object but when people are scared the are easy to manipulate. Additionally, in this case, it has the backing of a huge outside coalition. The Chinese want us disarmed. Most of Europe would like to see us disarmed. The liberal billionaires, Gates, Bloomturd, Soros, and the like, and liberal politicians and media want us disarmed. The immigrants receiving the free shit will do as told and vote as told. Combined with the urbanization demographic, we're in deep shit.

I dont like it anymore than you but youve got to see the writing on the wall. Look at New Zealand. Hell, theyve even taken away the peoples right to protest.

 

[Longshot231]

If the problem of drunk driving was treated like gun control then nobody would be allowed to drive.

 

[theLBC]

 

[quietmike]

They have a more difficult time understanding continual mass shootings where lots of people are harmed including infants.

Those same people scream like a prison gang rape at the idea of ending their ability to kill their own babies to avoid the consequences of slinging coochie like an aboriginal boomerang.

 

[Longshot231]

This needs to play out in it's fullest.

Maryland becomes first state to repeal police Bill of Rights, overriding Hogan veto

While I'm glad to see the repeal of the police bill of rights, I don't agree with most of the reasons the leftist have to support this legislation.

In some ways, the law enforcement community have brought the "defund the police" movement on themselves. In some ways the law enforcement community have brought on the "repeal the police bill of rights" legislation on themselves.

Let's start with some cops' attitude that only they should have guns. That attitude comes from a superiority complex on steroids. Those same idiots like, David Chipman, think that they are God's anointed and the rest of us are serfs that have to bow the knee every time they pass. In short, they forget, were never taught or ever believed that they are public SERVANTS. To them, everyone else is there to serve them.

How many white guys on this forum have been unjustifiably harassed by a cop? Okay, you can all put your hands down. I have been given the "third degree" by some asshole cops several times. Pull up any number of YouTube videos and you will see plenty of Barney Fifes on steroids. It's not a problem with race when it comes to asshole cops. It's a problem with over-inflated egos and "the law doesn't apply to me cause I got a badge" complex.

Way back in 1967, if I am correct, the SCOTUS gave the cops and some other government officials "qualified immunity." Can someone tell me where, in the constitution, that "qualified immunity" is ensconced? I don't think it's there.

So ever since that time, we've got cops that shoot first and ask questions later cause they know the courts will back them up. We only hear about the white cop shoots black man stories. There are plenty of stories of black cops shooting white people.

So "qualified immunity" has to go.

The "police officer bill of rights" wasn't a list of rights. It was a list of special privileges that cops get. It would give them immunity from scrutiny and prosecution when they did something wrong. I got a message for the cop that doesn't like the fact that their "bill of rights" has been stripped from them. Welcome to our world.

Another problem with public perception of the cops is the fact that they can LIE to a suspect. The SCOTUS decided that a long time ago. Let that sink in. In about every state in the Union, you cannot lie to a cop. That's a crime. However, they can and will lie to you.

The fact that they can lie through their teeth to secure a confession from someone should be alarming. If they will tell a lie during an interrogation, what makes you think that they won't give false testimony in court? Whether you're white, black, Asian or Latino this will cause trust issues with cops.

I wish I could save this for another day but will broach the subject of no-knock-warrants. While this sounds good in theory, in practice it's cost the lives of not only innocent people but some cops as well. Based on information from, usually, one informant, a no-knock-warrant is secured on the premise that by announcing law enforcement presence, the suspects will destroy evidence.

Yet watch what happens at 3:00 AM when the cops break down the door of the wrong house. I guarantee you that if you bust down my door at 3:00 AM, I'm not asking if you are a cop. I'm innocent of any wrong doing and will protect myself and my family. Call it shooting first and asking questions later. I don't care.

Then the cops think they can kill the homeowner with impunity but when they realize it's the wrong house they lawyer up and say they are sorry. They will also hide behind the shield of "qualified immunity."

Years ago, on Long Island, some crooked cops got caught by an assistant prosecutor planting "evidence" in a black man's car. The suspect was charged and convicted. If memory serves me correctly, the assistant prosecutor wanted to overturn the conviction that was based on false evidence and get the black guy out of jail. Her boss told her to drop it. AFAIK, nothing was done to the crooked cop and the black guy stayed in jail.

I can't blame the black guy in jail for hating everything to do with cops, prosecutors and judges. So, again, the law enforcement community can share the blame in seeing their special rights repealed. They need to learn to live like the rest of us.

 

[quietmike]

Let's start with some cops' attitude that only they should have guns.

Most street cops don't think that. Usually it's chiefs playing suckass to the mayor that says those things.
When I was a deputy if someone had a carry permit that immediately told me they weren't crazy, had no significant criminal history, and were smarter than average.

 

[theLBC]

mostly we remember the most egregious things that some bad cops have done and were not convicted for (daniel shaver...kelly thomas...)
but i think it is wrong and hurtful to characterize most cops based on these examples, or police that say they are against 2a.
for one thing, you have to remember who is pumping out these opinions. the "news"? it is all propaganda now.

 

[BullGear]

mostly we remember the most egregious things that some bad cops have done and were not convicted (daniel shaver...kelly thomas...)
but i think it is wrong and hurtful to characterize most cops based on these examples, or police that say they are against 2a.
for one thing, you have to remember who is pumping out these opinions. the "news"? it is all propaganda now.

I agree. Those who want to clump all cops into 1 pile is akin to the demwits wanting to clump all gun owners into a pile.

How many cops are there in the US? How many have shown a bad light on the profession?

It's dangerous to try to take away the protections a cop has when he/she does their job. Imagine the lawsuits that will become everyday occurrence from those who's job it will be to remove any and all cops they interact with. There will be groups who intention is to provoke cops and then take them to court without real reason other than to try to ruin a man/woman financially. Remember we are talking about civil court. Anyone can litigate against anyone they choose without merit and the courts are forced to hear the case.

For those who break the laws of the land while wearing a badge, there are laws now in place that address this issue. For those who go out and try to do a good job and protect their community, this action is going to force those people from this occupation for fear of being litigated into poverty.

 

[theLBC]

I agree. Those who want to clump all cops into 1 pile is akin to the demwits wanting to clump all gun owners into a pile.

How many cops are there in the US? How many have shown a bad light on the profession?

It's dangerous to try to take away the protections a cop has when he/she does their job. Imagine the lawsuits that will become everyday occurrence from those who's job it will be to remove any and all cops they interact with. There will be groups who intention is to provoke cops and then take them to court without real reason other than to try to ruin a man/woman financially. Remember we are talking about civil court. Anyone can litigate against anyone they choose without merit and the courts are forced to hear the case.

For those who break the laws of the land while wearing a badge, there are laws now in place that address this issue. For those who go out and try to do a good job and protect their community, this action is going to force those people from this occupation for fear of being litigated into poverty.

pretty sure the drastic rise in crime in anti-police areas like portland are a view of things to come.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

What does "work" even mean in this context?

 

[quietmike]

 

[Strykervet]

Fuck 'em. Not doing it so it doesn't really matter.

 

[Hawkwood]

it's very simple. Gun control has nothing to do with reducing crime. It's all about reducing your rights to own firearms through inch by inch 'common sense' legislation.

Never, never , NEVER forget... it’s always about control!

 

[The D]

One word: Chicago

You spelled it wrong. It’s Chicongo

 

[Skg_Mre_Lght]

It will work, and it already is.

With many Americans telecommuting now, rural properties are being bought up sight unseen by urbanites looking to transform their new area into the shot hole they just left. Our way of life will be impacted by this.

People are already not shooting and moving away from guns as a hobby because of the scarcity of ammunition, along with the price increase. You can thank the panic buyers/hoarders for this. It will become such a pain in the ass to shoot, that nobody will even bother to get into it anymore. Hell, I'm skipping matches this year to save what components I have. There is no relief in sight.

Suburban and urban white women, you know, the largest voting block, will vote for safety every damn time. They are also now buying homes in area due to the ability for them to telecommute.

These are just a few reasons, but they are the main ones. Guns will never completely disappear, but there won't be many of them in a generation or two.

 

[BullGear]

pretty sure the drastic rise in crime in anti-police areas like portland are a view of things to come.

When you include the exodus of those police officers, it can't get better for sure.

 

[davsco]

while gun control won't solve our crime problem, as skg above was saying, the anti's are happy to just have less guns in circulation. they figure even one less gun out there makes them safer and won't be used on them. the only way we win this is to get more folks invested and interested in firearms. everyone has a cell phone and thus there is zero push to ban them to reduce distracted driving.

 

[BullGear]

while gun control won't solve our crime problem, as skg above was saying, the anti's are happy to just have less guns in circulation. they figure even one less gun out there makes them safer and won't be used on them. the only way we win this is to get more folks invested and interested in firearms. everyone has a cell phone and thus there is zero push to ban them to reduce distracted driving.

I think in the last 12-16 months, there has been an explosion of interest in gun ownership from both sides of the political spectrum. Is that enough to have any gun control measure defeatable in the House or Senate?

That my friends is the million dollar question.

 

[Maggot]

while gun control won't solve our crime problem, as skg above was saying, the anti's are happy to just have less guns in circulation. they figure even one less gun out there makes them safer and won't be used on them. the only way we win this is to get more folks invested and interested in firearms. everyone has a cell phone and thus there is zero push to ban them to reduce distracted driving.

True about the cell phones but there are more regulations being passed to limit their use while driving. In Virginia its a stoppable offense and a $150 fine first time, $250 for the second.

 

[Longshot231]

True about the cell phones but there are more regulations being passed to limit their use while driving. In Virginia its a stoppable offense and a $150 fine first time, $250 for the second.

Hopefully, the new gun buyers within the past year have learned that the need for a firearm is greater for the need of a cell phone.

Let's hope they will not comply with a gun ban with the ferocity that they would for a ban of cell phones.

On the other hand, that's why the anti-gunners have stopped short of banning all firearms. They know that they could never succeed with that. The other approach is to ban the ones that are supposedly less appealing or more evil looking than most.

Back to the new gun buyers of the last year; do any of you think we'll have more vocal allies in these folks or will they sit back with their mouths shut and let someone else carry the water for them?

 

[SilentStalkr]

I dunno. I have a pretty bleak outlook. Manufacturers can’t get raw goods to make anything, ammo is nonexistent, like someone else said, people aren’t shooting what they have cause they can’t get replacements, urbanites moving out to the burbs to change the landscape. We have tons of anti crap in politics right now and I’m not seeing any pushback really. Frankly, I’m not sure how people are saying in Biz.

 

[BullGear]

I dunno. I have a pretty bleak outlook. Manufacturers can’t get raw goods to make anything, ammo is nonexistent, like someone else said, people aren’t shooting what they have cause they can’t get replacements, urbanites moving out to the burbs to change the landscape. We have tons of anti crap in politics right now and I’m not seeing any pushback really. Frankly, I’m not sure how people are saying in Biz.

Do we really think the ammo isn't hitting the shelves? I know of 2 gun shops who call their regulars each time they get a shipment of ammo. I'm pretty sure, in one of the shops, that ammo is NEVER put out on the shelves. I do have a friend that owns a shop and I used to work there with him. He's kind of eluded that he has people paying premiums on the ammo that he's getting into his shop. I asked him to be on the lookout for a certain brand of 147gr 9mm ammo. He said with a straight face for me to get in line. Ammo is getting to the stores, it's just that it's gone before the average guy can make it into the shops to buy it.

During the last ammo scare, I do know that retirees where casing the stores and would be there right after the trucks delivered the ammo. I see no reason why that not occurring now.

 

[SilentStalkr]

Do we really think the ammo isn't hitting the shelves? I know of 2 gun shops who call their regulars each time they get a shipment of ammo. I'm pretty sure, in one of the shops, that ammo is NEVER put out on the shelves. I do have a friend that owns a shop and I used to work there with him. He's kind of eluded that he has people paying premiums on the ammo that he's getting into his shop. I asked him to be on the lookout for a certain brand of 147gr 9mm ammo. He said with a straight face for me to get in line. Ammo is getting to the stores, it's just that it's gone before the average guy can make it into the shops to buy it.

During the last ammo scare, I do know that retirees where casing the stores and would be there right after the trucks delivered the ammo. I see no reason why that not occurring now.

No. It’s definitely getting to stores but not in the volume it has in the past imo. And I’m sure there is no doubt the share of hoarding, price gouging and so on. Guaranteed but what I am saying is that anyone that thinks they ain’t taking notes from this and have figured out an easy control mechanism is nuts.

 

[M7rtim]

All we have to do is ban double barrel high capacity magazine clips and eventually, they’ll have shot them all and they won’t have any more to shoot. Easy.

...as for ghost guns, kill all the ghosts