Why hunt with match ammo?

[Gronk83]

So, simple question. There are lots of threads about people hunting, or not, with match ammo. Some say yeah, good shot placement is everything etc.. Others say nay, not enough expansion...so on.

The question is. Why bother? I am new to reloading, but what I think I know is there are hunting projectiles that are ballistically identical to match type ammo. Why not spend a few more cents shooting ballistic tips at paper and have a reliable hunting round?

 

[vman]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

My main reason is that i want to practice on my long range shooting with match bullets and use those same bullets to hit the intended targets also at long distances.

My argument is that I have read just as many stories of hunting bullets failing as I have of match bullets failing.

If you go over the hunting sub forum, you can find many past threads with many examples of huge beasts dropped with match projectiles.

Shot placement is king.

Just remember... man has been slaying animal for thousands of years, be it club, arrow, stone, knive, bullets, even traps.

 

[armymedic.2]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

oh jesus.......popcorn


you got me in last time, not this time match ammo arguement, not this time!!

 

[Longrange****]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

hahahaha, this has been beaten to death here and just ends up in an argument. I say use what works best for you as long as you arent wounding animals.

Pesonally I have been droping big game for the last 5 years with match ammo, and of course I do watch my shot placement but every animal I have shot since has not taken one more step....period. But then again I use my custom guns with known data for hunting as well as serious long range.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

If I'm hunting ANYTHING bigger than a groundhog, I use a hunting specific bullet like a Nosler PARTITION or a Barnes X type solid. When you decide that you've seen the last deer running into the woods with your bullet in it and then either it's lost forever or another hunter gets it, you'll decide much the same thing I did.

Regular hollow point boat tail bullets are meant to fly long and punch paper. Not kill larger game. Because of the way they are made, they explode on contact or disintegrate when they hit the animal. This leaves the animal able to run off, in SOME instances.

But in the end, it's YOUR DECISION. You have to decide what bullet you want to use.

Don't take my word for it. Get passionate. Do your own research. If you do it correctly, I believe you'll see things my way.

But again. It's your choice.

 

[caustic]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

I've had no problems at all with using a-max type projo and hunting white tail deer but that is the extent of my experience. My thought on this is I know my data for the round ( a-max and re 22 in 300 win mag) I’m using for target quite well so why not use it hunting. If your shooting for the vitals you shouldn’t have problems and I have yet to have any. the projo creates more than enough damage to kill.

 

[Shortdraw]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armymedic.2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">oh jesus.......popcorn


you got me in last time, not this time match ammo arguement, not this time!! </div></div>
+1.... This arguement is not worth rehashing. People are going to do what they are personally comfortable with, and they already made their decision. Nobody's mind will be changed arguing it, so I won't even bother. I will sit back and watch with popcorn and beer cause this will get ugly again.

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

The only time something really feels alive is when it is dying. So, I'm doing everything a favor by using match ammo.

 

[troupe]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

I have used hunting bullets (Nosler BT) that failed up close. Had to much velocity. I have used match bullets that just pass through like a FMJ and the distance was under a 100. Velocity was there to open the bullet.

 

[chris112]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

Maybe they should have made the last one a sticky. Then every time it comes up lock immediately and refer every thing to the sticky.

 

[SavageSlayer]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

Look,

Bullets kill. That is their greatest intended purpose. That is what they were designed for all those hundreds of years ago. Can you hunt with match bullets?...Sure. Do people hunt with match bullets?...Sure. Do match bullets kill?...Sure.

Ask this though, if match bullets were effective enough killers then why was the "hunting bullet" ever invented. Usually, something becomes invented to fill a need. Because of this we got bullets like the Nosler Partition and the Barnes X bullets and so on.

The biggest argument for using match bullets is shot placement. Well, are you going to be presented with a perfect shot every time you are hunting? If a bullet blows up on heavy bone and does not penetrate into the vitals what's the point in using it?

Also, there are many hunting bullets out now that fly just as good or better than many of the match bullets. They have very similar characteristics, such as ballistic tips, boat tails, and high ballistic coefficients.

So...there you have it. If you use bullets for the shooting disciplines they were designed for your chance of being disappointed becomes much less.

Last point. If you had a world record deer, elk, moose or whatever in your sights would you be more comfortable taking the shot with a match bullet or a bullet designed for the purpose of hunting?

 

[mrgreentie]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Money</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look,
Last point. If you had a world record deer, elk, moose or whatever in your sights would you be more comfortable taking the shot with a match bullet or a bullet designed for the purpose of hunting? </div></div>

That pretty much sums it up. I'd want a hunting bullet.

 

[Gronk83]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

Thanks for the responses. I knew there would be two sides to the discussion. However, one of the points I was getting at was not covered.

I if decide to devote my time to developing loads with hunting projectiles will I theoretically be able to achieve accuracy comparable to match ammo?

Thanks

 

[42769vette]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

for the limited hunting i get to do in indiana with a rifle i use the 140 amax. it will drop a coyote in its tracks. when i went to wy pronghorn hunting it did fine there aswell.

the biggest animal id hunt with my 260 would be a mule deer. if i went mule deer hunting i would consider loading up some barnes or partitions.

 

[vman]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gronk83</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the responses. I knew there would be two sides to the discussion. However, one of the points I was getting at was not covered.

I if decide to devote my time to developing loads with hunting projectiles will I theoretically be able to achieve accuracy comparable to match ammo?

Thanks </div></div>

You may be limiting yourself.

If you have a serious look at the build of most long range match bullets you will notice that most of the good ones have a very long build.

Take the 155 Scenar for example. Look at the length of it, compared to its weight. It is like that for a reason and that is to give a high BC. But in order to be like that it sacrifices things like bonded cores and is relatively simple in its construction.

Hunting bullets are more complex in their design so that they offer controlled expansion or whatever quality the manufacturer pushes.

Have a look at Berger bullets. They have matching hunting and target bullets with the difference only being jacket thickness. This way you have the option of keeping the same load by shooting their hunting bullets for match and hunting. Same BC, same everything bar the jacket.

 

[Notso]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Money</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look,

Bullets kill. That is their greatest intended purpose. That is what they were designed for all those hundreds of years ago. Can you hunt with match bullets?...Sure. Do people hunt with match bullets?...Sure. Do match bullets kill?...Sure.

Ask this though, if match bullets were effective enough killers then why was the "hunting bullet" ever invented. Usually, something becomes invented to fill a need. Because of this we got bullets like the Nosler Partition and the Barnes X bullets and so on.

The biggest argument for using match bullets is shot placement. Well, are you going to be presented with a perfect shot every time you are hunting? If a bullet blows up on heavy bone and does not penetrate into the vitals what's the point in using it?

Also, there are many hunting bullets out now that fly just as good or better than many of the match bullets. They have very similar characteristics, such as ballistic tips, boat tails, and high ballistic coefficients.

So...there you have it. If you use bullets for the shooting disciplines they were designed for your chance of being disappointed becomes much less.

Last point. If you had a world record deer, elk, moose or whatever in your sights would you be more comfortable taking the shot with a match bullet or a bullet designed for the purpose of hunting? </div></div>

Stop using reason and logic. That has no place here....

I know this is not definitive by any stretch, but here a graphic example of the difference between match bullets and at least pseudo-hunting bullets:

these water jugs were shot with 175SMKs at 400m. When hit, they just kinda fell over. The view is of the "exit wound":

These next ones were shot with 168 AMAXs at the same range with the same gun:

These literally exploded at impact.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

so..............your point is................?

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

don't be a jug a water

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

perzackly.............................

 

[elkhuntinguide]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I'm hunting ANYTHING bigger than a groundhog, I use a hunting specific bullet like a Nosler PARTITION or a Barnes X type solid. When you decide that you've seen the last deer running into the woods with your bullet in it and then either it's lost forever or another hunter gets it, you'll decide much the same thing I did. </div></div>

Those Barnes will work great for ya as well as the Nosler Partitions... Hunting Bullets always work the best...

Barnes Triple Shock...

Nosler Partition...

 

[ssadler]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Notso</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Money</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look,

Bullets kill. That is their greatest intended purpose. That is what they were designed for all those hundreds of years ago. Can you hunt with match bullets?...Sure. Do people hunt with match bullets?...Sure. Do match bullets kill?...Sure.

Ask this though, if match bullets were effective enough killers then why was the "hunting bullet" ever invented. Usually, something becomes invented to fill a need. Because of this we got bullets like the Nosler Partition and the Barnes X bullets and so on.

The biggest argument for using match bullets is shot placement. Well, are you going to be presented with a perfect shot every time you are hunting? If a bullet blows up on heavy bone and does not penetrate into the vitals what's the point in using it?

Also, there are many hunting bullets out now that fly just as good or better than many of the match bullets. They have very similar characteristics, such as ballistic tips, boat tails, and high ballistic coefficients.

So...there you have it. If you use bullets for the shooting disciplines they were designed for your chance of being disappointed becomes much less.

Last point. If you had a world record deer, elk, moose or whatever in your sights would you be more comfortable taking the shot with a match bullet or a bullet designed for the purpose of hunting? </div></div>

Stop using reason and logic. That has no place here....

I know this is not definitive by any stretch, but here a graphic example of the difference between match bullets and at least pseudo-hunting bullets:

these water jugs were shot with 175SMKs at 400m. When hit, they just kinda fell over. The view is of the "exit wound":

These next ones were shot with 168SMKs at the same range with the same gun:

These literally exploded at impact. </div></div>



Just which one of those "SMK's" was the pseudo hunting bullet.

 

[Gronk83]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

Yikes, I started a serious debate. I'm assuming this is an ongoing battle.

Thanks to all for the info, keep it coming, and civil. I just picked up a Rem 700 aac-sd and a reloading kit. And have some Silver State brass on order.

Anybody have a good recipe for a heavy hunting round? I'm pretty fond of Nosler ballistic silver tips, they are sort of vicious(messy) coming from a 300wsm but might be about perfect at 308 velocities?

 

[Notso]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Col Freckles</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Notso</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Money</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look,

Bullets kill. That is their greatest intended purpose. That is what they were designed for all those hundreds of years ago. Can you hunt with match bullets?...Sure. Do people hunt with match bullets?...Sure. Do match bullets kill?...Sure.

Ask this though, if match bullets were effective enough killers then why was the "hunting bullet" ever invented. Usually, something becomes invented to fill a need. Because of this we got bullets like the Nosler Partition and the Barnes X bullets and so on.

The biggest argument for using match bullets is shot placement. Well, are you going to be presented with a perfect shot every time you are hunting? If a bullet blows up on heavy bone and does not penetrate into the vitals what's the point in using it?

Also, there are many hunting bullets out now that fly just as good or better than many of the match bullets. They have very similar characteristics, such as ballistic tips, boat tails, and high ballistic coefficients.

So...there you have it. If you use bullets for the shooting disciplines they were designed for your chance of being disappointed becomes much less.

Last point. If you had a world record deer, elk, moose or whatever in your sights would you be more comfortable taking the shot with a match bullet or a bullet designed for the purpose of hunting? </div></div>

Stop using reason and logic. That has no place here....

I know this is not definitive by any stretch, but here a graphic example of the difference between match bullets and at least pseudo-hunting bullets:

these water jugs were shot with 175SMKs at 400m. When hit, they just kinda fell over. The view is of the "exit wound":

These next ones were shot with 168SMKs at the same range with the same gun:

These literally exploded at impact. </div></div>



Just which one of those "SMK's" was the pseudo hunting bullet. </div></div>
Sorry, dumb ass typo on my part. I meant the 2nd set was 168 AMAXs not SMKs.

 

[Shortdraw]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gronk83</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Anybody have a good recipe for a heavy hunting round? </div></div>
The best loads start in your reloading manual at the starting load and worked up to YOUR rifle. Internet recipes can be worked up to with experience. The better question from you would be "what heavy hunting bullet has given you great results?" Look up the load in your manual and start loading.

 

[vman]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

Notso,

you do realise that A-max is also a match grade bullet not recommended (by Hornady) for Hunting?

 

[Notso]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Notso,

you do realise that A-max is also a match grade bullet not recommended (by Hornady) for Hunting? </div></div>
Yes, which is why I said "psuedo". My understanding is AMAXs are much closer to a hunting bullet construction than the SMKs and far more people hunt successfully with them. But yes, you are correct its actually a designed match bullet.

 

[HathcockProtege]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Money</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Last point. If you had a world record deer, elk, moose or whatever in your sights would you be more comfortable taking the shot with a match bullet or a bullet designed for the purpose of hunting? </div></div>

If I had the world record deer in my sights I'd want to be taking the shot with whatever bullet I could accurately place into his vitals at that distance.

 

[chris223]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

I may be wrong but I know in alot of locations its Illegal to hunt with out a non expanding/soft carteidge which I believe would knock out the match ammo.

 

[trigger time]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

I have shot everything from pigs to deer and elk with the Berger hunting VLD. They work, every time every range. Of course shot placement is always key, anyone knows that. An ass shot deer or elk is ass shot weather its a triple shock or a varmint grenade. Barnes own test shows exactly why I use the Bergers. Do your own homework, there's lots of info out there.
http://www.barnesbullets.com/information/bullet-talk/lab-tests/
http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/berger-barnes-bullet-performance-1.php

 

[SPAK]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

I'll throw my .02 for the show...

I use two types of loads, 200 gr accubond for distances up to 350 yards and 208 amax for distances beyond 350 yards. Both running about 2700fps from a 30-06.
Both are loaded and shoot as precisely as any other ammo I would make.

 

[Longrange****]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

HEy NotSO...That fine that you want to compare things but if you want to use them in this context how about comparing apples to apples here....not apples to Buicks.....

The SMK and the Amax are NO WERE NEAR THE SAME THING....if you really wanted to compare then how about SMK and SGK? That would be a much more fair comparison.

The Amax is devistating on game....Ive seen that round destroy a fair amount of meat.

The SMK does expand, Ive seen it do so.....so does the Berger VLD and the 115 DTAC....in fact I shot a deer for the first time last year with the 115 DTAC and I was very pleased with the results....it hit like Thor's hammer to the back of my bucks head.

 

[Woodlanddude]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

I have used the 175 match king succesfully on 6 deer now out of a 308 ranges 350-450 yards. The deer did not go far. The longest death run was about 30yds. The shortest was a heart shot face on at 400. He was in his tracks in the snow where he was shot. I have seen a friend take several deer quite satisfactorily with a 7-08 and 162gr amaxes. These bullets don't perform as well as purpose designed hunting fodder, but in the long range accurracy dept, they perform better, and killed quite quickly. A 175 smk is not going to magically grenade short side on a deer. However, if it comes apart the core is still 150 + grains of lead and will make a mess getting to the other side. A pinhole effect deer, if it happens, will still not go far. Shot through the lungs/heart you will find it nearby. With the A-maxes I saw used, they open up quicker on bone, but still create a BIG mess in the vitals when that happens.

For most of my hunting I have used gamekings and Hornady interlocks, because inside 100yards, the accuracy is just fine, and my hunting only rifles(which are lighter, and meant to be used offhand or sitting inside of a few hundred yards) have no need to be fed match bullets. I have recently switched to Hornady SST's and Interbonds for the upgrades in accuracy and performance over the old standbys. The purposes for my long distance/precision heavy rifle is such I have chosen to stick with accuracy and penetration as my most important factors when using that rifle. For the same reasons a match bullet works best for distance target shooting, makes it best for this purpose for me. If I was shooting much larger game, I would have to research more on specific bullets/wieghts, to ensure it is still a good choice. If I remember correctly, a certain wildlife manager/guide posted several pics of several 175 match king killed elk some time back. Something to consider, but to each his own on this matter.

 

[shooter19802003]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

I like over kill because I hate chasing after wounded critters due to bullet failure. So I hunt with a 375h&h pushing a 300 grain hornady dgx. I use that round on everything from elk and bear to dear and yotes. I have used it a few times on prairie dogs aswell..not with much luck though. I say use what works for you. At the end of the day it is you who are looking for wounded critters if you so choose.

 

[esorensen]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure Hornady has stated recently that the AMAX is suitable for thin skinned game.

 

[Gronk83]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

Thanks again to all for the responses

Lots here to consider. I guess half the fun is finding out on your own and having info/opinions to share with others.

I think try a load with ballistic tips, see what kind of accuracy I can get. (hunting being kind of primary in my thinking)

If that doesn't suit I'll try launching some match bullets (which I'm sure will kill animals)


My own two cents on the matter:

I have found that just getting the opportunity to shoot AT a game animal is 90% of the effort with hunting (I'm talking about Elk in the mountains of Oregon, not whitetails at a feeder in Texas, so my view might be skewed) gear, tags, travel, land access, scouting, dialing in your gun/loads/scope, time off, convincing your wife hunting is more important than her birthday, etc.
So, once I am there with the animal in front of me I consider most of the job complete. There are only a few more things that need doing.


-I have to aim straight and pull the trigger(good, I've put my time in at the range and am ready)
-The bullet has to travel straight and hit the target(great, I've spent countless time researching, and developing a load. I will not miss)

And the very last thing in the whole process. The bullet has to kill the animal.

 

[vman]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

Gronk i still think you should try out the Bergers if your in doubt. At least any highly accurate match rounds you make could also be highly accurate hunting rounds by simply changing out the bullet.

 

[Gronk83]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

That sounds perfect. I checked out there website. That seems like the easy match-to-hunting round switch I was looking for. You win.

 

[Shakeber]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

One of my friends has a very nice setup. He has a customized 300 wsm with a NF scope and he shoots both target and hunting bullets. What he also does is have data for both. He can dial in his scope to whatever he is shooting. This is what my ultimate setup will be. Currently I am shooting a Rem 700 5r in 308 with a nice VX3 4X14 with Boone and Crockett reticle and am good to 500 yds but I have to concentrate on one particular bullet type. A good scope with zero-stop and graduated turrets and a little data recording is the way to go. IMHO

 

[pshell]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

How many hunters can shoot their "match" ammo, while in the field, to it's capabilities?

Agreed, all bullets kill, but some are way better at transferring that energy than others. I would imagine a serious marksmen would want to have the best equipment and training available to him. That equipment should include the best ammunition for the job. Premium hunting bullets shoot just as well as premium target bullets. I imagine people don't want to use them due to cost.

For the sake of discusion, let's say your "match" hand loads are 3/4 MOA capable with your intended hunting rifle. Do you think you can hold 3/4 moa standing offhand. Few people I know can do that. Actually, I have yet to meet a person that claims to do so. How about a standing supported position?

If you have the option, seems like you should work up a load with a good hunting bullet. I have shot Remington Corelokt into 1.25'' holes at 100yds with no problems. Do you need more than that to kill a deer? I don't.

 

[Shakeber]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

Good point pshell!

 

[Longrange****]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pshell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many hunters can shoot their "match" ammo, while in the field, to it's capabilities?

If you have the option, seems like you should work up a load with a good hunting bullet. I have shot Remington Corelokt into 1.25'' holes at 100yds with no problems. Do you need more than that to kill a deer? I don't. </div></div>

Yes I can.....

And yes I do want more than that, no matter WHAT, shot placement should be king. I just believe too many people try to put things in their favor by using the biggest cannon they can instead of knowing their weapon. There should be no excuses for not being able to have good shot placement. If you cant have good shot placement you shouldnt be taking the shot, some will try to argue with me I know it but everyone knows better. I stricktly hunt for meat so I want the least amount of damage possible. Ive been hunting for over 20 years now and had taken ONE shot at a Deer in the shoulders, it was the only deer I ever had to track. Every deer since that has been shot high in the neck or in the head out to about 300 yards. Like my Dad always said to me when relating to hunting and killing....."There is no excuse for not knowing your gun and what it can do, you have a responsability to know that the shot you are going to take is going to hit where you want it to and finish the animal a fast as possible. You owe them that respect" I was taught to shoot in the neck and where everything is at in the neck, I have NEVER had a deer move more than 5 feet after being shot there in 20 years. Study it, study your weapon and practice. Its that easy. And know you can make the shot.

 

[Notso]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longrange****</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yes I can.....

And yes I do want more than that, no matter WHAT, shot placement should be king. I just believe too many people try to put things in their favor by using the biggest cannon they can instead of knowing their weapon. There should be no excuses for not being able to have good shot placement. If you cant have good shot placement you shouldnt be taking the shot, some will try to argue with me I know it but everyone knows better. I stricktly hunt for meat so I want the least amount of damage possible. Ive been hunting for over 20 years now and had taken ONE shot at a Deer in the shoulders, it was the only deer I ever had to track. Every deer since that has been shot high in the neck or in the head out to about 300 yards. Like my Dad always said to me when relating to hunting and killing....."There is no excuse for not knowing your gun and what it can do, you have a responsability to know that the shot you are going to take is going to hit where you want it to and finish the animal a fast as possible. You owe them that respect" I was taught to shoot in the neck and where everything is at in the neck, I have NEVER had a deer move more than 5 feet after being shot there in 20 years. Study it, study your weapon and practice. Its that easy. And know you can make the shot. </div></div>
Excellent!

 

[pshell]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longrange****</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pshell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many hunters can shoot their "match" ammo, while in the field, to it's capabilities?

If you have the option, seems like you should work up a load with a good hunting bullet. I have shot Remington Corelokt into 1.25'' holes at 100yds with no problems. Do you need more than that to kill a deer? I don't. </div></div>

Yes I can.....

And yes I do want more than that, no matter WHAT, shot placement should be king. I just believe too many people try to put things in their favor by using the biggest cannon they can instead of knowing their weapon. There should be no excuses for not being able to have good shot placement. If you cant have good shot placement you shouldnt be taking the shot, some will try to argue with me I know it but everyone knows better. I stricktly hunt for meat so I want the least amount of damage possible. Ive been hunting for over 20 years now and had taken ONE shot at a Deer in the shoulders, it was the only deer I ever had to track. Every deer since that has been shot high in the neck or in the head out to about 300 yards. Like my Dad always said to me when relating to hunting and killing....."There is no excuse for not knowing your gun and what it can do, you have a responsability to know that the shot you are going to take is going to hit where you want it to and finish the animal a fast as possible. You owe them that respect" I was taught to shoot in the neck and where everything is at in the neck, I have NEVER had a deer move more than 5 feet after being shot there in 20 years. Study it, study your weapon and practice. Its that easy. And know you can make the shot. </div></div>

Totally agree that shot placement is king.

That's not the question. Do you use SMK's(or similar) or do you use a bullet ment for hunting? Both will put you in the neck if you practice and apply the fundamentals. Quality hunting bullets are more than up to the task.

Modern rifles are very accurate and most will be able to head shot a deer with good ammunition if the shooter is up to the task.

Bottom line is, I totally agree with you. You should not be hunting if you don't practice marksmanship while doing so.

If your saying you shoot 3/4 moa while standing offhand I want to see it. That's some skill.

 

[vman]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

pshell i can hit an A4 piece of paper out to 400 yards whilst standing, with my 17lb rifle provided I have a sling.

I do not like to shoot this way and prefer to shoot prone.

Rather than use a sniper rifle to hunt in scrub, which is retarded when you think about it, I hunt in conditions that I know work in my advantage.

That means having a pair of binos, glassing at the extreme of my visual field and then moving forward. I always glass right to left as this opposes my brains natural method of left to right scanning and hence I focus more on what im looking at.

If I find a nice little spot of high ground I will camp there for a short while and glass the surroundings very carefully.

So the reason I chose to use match ammo for hunting is because I walk in with the expectation that I might take a long distance shot in which case I want the best ballistic advantage my caliber can afford... And if these are the conditions I will have time to get prone, get behind the rifle exactly, laser the distance, calculate wind hold, calculate compensation for angular shots etc...

This is how I prefer to hunt.

If i was doing a lot of close range shooting withing 50-75 yards I would just buy a .375H&H and be done with it.

 

[Gronk83]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

Cheers to the neck shot! Always a winner.

I found an interesting quote on the Berger bullet website:
"We will go back to educating hunters about the difference between Match bullets that are admittedly not good for hunting and our Hunting bullets which are great for hunting and made to Match Grade tolerances. I accept that those who are not comfortable with Match Grade Hunting bullets have dozens of options to choose from that are not Match Grade. I offer that if they give our Match Grade Hunting bullets a try, they will be very happy with the results."

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Executive Vice President

I'm going to take him up on that.

 

[pshell]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">pshell i can hit an A4 piece of paper out to 400 yards whilst standing, with my 17lb rifle provided I have a sling.

I do not like to shoot this way and prefer to shoot prone.

Rather than use a sniper rifle to hunt in scrub, which is retarded when you think about it, I hunt in conditions that I know work in my advantage.

That means having a pair of binos, glassing at the extreme of my visual field and then moving forward. I always glass right to left as this opposes my brains natural method of left to right scanning and hence I focus more on what im looking at.

If I find a nice little spot of high ground I will camp there for a short while and glass the surroundings very carefully.

So the reason I chose to use match ammo for hunting is because I walk in with the expectation that I might take a long distance shot in which case I want the best ballistic advantage my caliber can afford... And if these are the conditions I will have time to get prone, get behind the rifle exactly, laser the distance, calculate wind hold, calculate compensation for angular shots etc...

This is how I prefer to hunt.

If i was doing a lot of close range shooting withing 50-75 yards I would just buy a .375H&H and be done with it. </div></div>

Got it.

Can you shot a 3/4 moa hole in said paper while standing?

Also, I'm not saying hunting bullets are less accurate than paper punching bullets. Hunting bullets are just as accurate, if you buy the good ones.

I guess when we say "match' many think paper punching bullets. Match ammo can be anything that is built to the same standard over and over. I have match hunting ammo. It's got a hunting bullet and shoots just or almost as well as my paper punching stuff.

My point is, most hunters can't come close to matching their ammo's capabilities while hunting. Use the bullet that transfers the most energy.

I'm not looking for a dick measuring contest. I know there are good shooters out there and I know there are plenty of guys that think they are good. I would not shoot any animal unless I'm sure I would hit it. I practice and have dope for my paper punching and meat punching ammo. Proficient hunters do the same. There is no reason to use substandard equipement or not train for the task at hand.

 

[Longrange****]

Re: Why hunt with match ammo?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pshell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longrange****</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pshell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many hunters can shoot their "match" ammo, while in the field, to it's capabilities?

If you have the option, seems like you should work up a load with a good hunting bullet. I have shot Remington Corelokt into 1.25'' holes at 100yds with no problems. Do you need more than that to kill a deer? I don't. </div></div>

Yes I can.....

And yes I do want more than that, no matter WHAT, shot placement should be king. I just believe too many people try to put things in their favor by using the biggest cannon they can instead of knowing their weapon. There should be no excuses for not being able to have good shot placement. If you cant have good shot placement you shouldnt be taking the shot, some will try to argue with me I know it but everyone knows better. I stricktly hunt for meat so I want the least amount of damage possible. Ive been hunting for over 20 years now and had taken ONE shot at a Deer in the shoulders, it was the only deer I ever had to track. Every deer since that has been shot high in the neck or in the head out to about 300 yards. Like my Dad always said to me when relating to hunting and killing....."There is no excuse for not knowing your gun and what it can do, you have a responsability to know that the shot you are going to take is going to hit where you want it to and finish the animal a fast as possible. You owe them that respect" I was taught to shoot in the neck and where everything is at in the neck, I have NEVER had a deer move more than 5 feet after being shot there in 20 years. Study it, study your weapon and practice. Its that easy. And know you can make the shot. </div></div>

Totally agree that shot placement is king.

That's not the question. Do you use SMK's(or similar) or do you use a bullet ment for hunting? Both will put you in the neck if you practice and apply the fundamentals. Quality hunting bullets are more than up to the task.

Modern rifles are very accurate and most will be able to head shot a deer with good ammunition if the shooter is up to the task.

Bottom line is, I totally agree with you. You should not be hunting if you don't practice marksmanship while doing so.

If your saying you shoot 3/4 moa while standing offhand I want to see it. That's some skill. </div></div>

No I will freely admit that I cannot shoot 3/4moa standing, as such I shoot from an elevated position most of time (its how its done here for the most part) and I rest my rifle on the rail of my stand....now if Im walking you bet I can hold 1 MOA or better leaning against a tree and in an uncomfy position....but I have gotten accustomed to that sort of thing out here....now on the flip side I typically do not use my precision rifle if Im walking or stalking. I have an M14 Bush with Iron sights I use for that, but Ill tell ya, I still shoot them in the head or neck.

I have used 175SMK's with great success to be honest....I even used a 115 DTAC out of my 6BR this year....I was honestly a bit less impressed with the 115 than the 175smk though....but they both did the job that I asked them for....

I guess the one real thing I have against hunting bullets is that Im a Meat only hunter, I do not hunt trophies. The hunting bullets that are out there are being used to shoot deer in the shoulders....which is fine I guess...the problem is that they are designed to cause the MOST damage possible to meat....the one thing I am after....now to me it doesnt make much sense to destroy the thing Im trying to collect.

If you take a 223 Full Metal Jacket, or hell even a armor piercing round and punch it through the brain or through the spine at the base of the skull on ANYTHING it will still die faster than hitting it with a 50BMG and a soft point in the shoulder...why? Shot placement.....

High in the shoulder is a bit different than lung/heart shots though, you still have the ability to destroy the "Brain highway", but again I bet you destroy a fair amount of meat......

Not trying to pick on another member too much from above but I think thats absolute garbage to shoot a whitetail with a 300RUM or whatever it was.....these things arent the size of taradactles(sp?) guys.....The 30-30 has killed more whitetails than any other caliber ever will and its not exactly a long range capable round.....

With all that said, I think Im going to build a dedicated 223 deer rifle, maybe a 243.

Oh and pshell, I didnt take your message the wrong way, Im not trying to start a pissin match with you either, although I have become fairly proficient if writing my own name in the snow