Why I'm divesting of VV N570

[secondofangle2]

I started using it because in 375CT 350 grain bullet category it gave about 50-75 fps faster than Retumbo and shot just as well or better.

I'm stopping because I'm now shooting 390s and they like RL50 - but I'm also going back to Retumbo for the 350s because:

1. harder than heck to get - no news there
2. I read on another forum that the VV guys have told others that the nitroglycerine surfaces with time making the powder burn hotter as it gets older. That makes even the same lot unreliable over time because the lot actually changes over time, nevermind any lot-to-lot variation
3. 1&2 compound - you have to stockpile it because you can't get it, so you have a bunch on hand sitting there, oozing NTG and shooting hotter if that report is true
4. It's a barrel burner (more than others). I burned up a 375CT barrel in about a year shooting N570 in it. 0.120" eaten away, borescope shows lake bed effect
5. It's heck to dispense. The ATV4 should solve that problem somewhat, but it's still an unwieldy powder
6. It's temp sensitive, far more so than retumbo

Discuss.

 

[mtang45]

Yep that stuff is pure crap and dangerous as hell! Send all you have to me for proper disposal.

 

[Dogtown]

More for me!

 

[Steel head]

Yay
More for me!

 

[Deadman Pointers]

Temp sensitive? In AZ here, I shoot at 10 to 100+ never noting a difference. Retumbo is harder for us to get out here than N570. I stopped using Retumbo since it was like hens teeth.

 

[Choid]

If you live near me I am happy to take it off of your hands.

 

[secondofangle2]

9# for sale in SLC UT

 

[secondofangle2]

But that was not the point of the post and it cannot be shipped; to be clear to mods, I did not come here to list all of the drawbacks of N570 to try to attract buyers! But the road to hell is paved with good intentions

 

[Tchitcherine]

Help us out, please post up the VV "report" or otherwise substantiate the claims of item (2) in your list, thanks.

 

[mtang45]

Help us out, please post up the VV "report" or otherwise substantiate the claims of item (2) in your list, thanks.

Yes, I agree. There is nothing on the internet that even resembles the claim in #2. Hard to believe that an allegation (true or not) of age stability of a powder would go unnoticed on the www.

 

[secondofangle2]

You are being redirected...

barefooter56​

• May 11, 2015
• #3

TC,
I used N550 in my Palma rifle for years. It was a hot load (3030 fps because that's what she liked). I didn't notice much throat erosion ( Kreiger barrel 1-13 tr, ) at all really. .010 after 2 years was about it.What I did notice was that the load got hotter after the second year then was over pressure by the 4th year. It was confirmed by VhitaVouri that as these powders age the nitro does move closer to the the surface of the powder kernel and change the burn rate. Answer is to retest your load every year and reduce load if necessary to prevent over pressure and to stay on your velocity accuracy node. Very good powder though IMHO.

 

[secondofangle2]

You are being redirected...

 

[mtang45]

You are being redirected...

barefooter56​

• May 11, 2015
• #3

TC,
I used N550 in my Palma rifle for years. It was a hot load (3030 fps because that's what she liked). I didn't notice much throat erosion ( Kreiger barrel 1-13 tr, ) at all really. .010 after 2 years was about it.What I did notice was that the load got hotter after the second year then was over pressure by the 4th year. It was confirmed by VhitaVouri that as these powders age the nitro does move closer to the the surface of the powder kernel and change the burn rate. Answer is to retest your load every year and reduce load if necessary to prevent over pressure and to stay on your velocity accuracy node. Very good powder though IMHO.

You do realize the legal ramifications of the information/statement in the above post that is not acknowledged, published or warned about in any way whatsoever by VihtaVouri. Kinda makes you wonder about the validity of the post.

 

[mtang45]

I would like to see a reference to the VihtaVuori statement, not just the original posters claim.

"It was confirmed by VhitaVuori that as these powders age the nitro does move closer to the the surface of the powder kernel and change the burn rate. Answer is to retest your load every year and reduce load if necessary to prevent over pressure and to stay on your velocity accuracy node. "

Somebody makes a wild unsubstantiated claim on the internet and before you know it, its gospel.

 

[mtang45]

Sorry I can't help posting more on this apparent lie. If you look at the section at the bottom of the post where it appears that he has pasted a response from Philip Hoham, Technical Support, you would think that Philip would know how to spell the name of his employer correctly. Funny that he spells it exactly like Barefooter56

Edited to add: Wait, the poster (barefooter56) is Philip Hoham and supposedly works for Berger. However he's from Indiana and the Berger facility is in AZ. His signature line says Sedalia, MO. Something really fishy going on here.

 

[jakelly]

@mtang45 can you describe or link what you’re talking about? I’m not tracking.

 

[high right]

N570 is pretty easy to get out here. I tried it in my 338imp. Already have a great load with 33 but, hard to get. My biggest complaint is that the kernels are the size of Lincoln Logs. Hard to dispense. Plus, it is Hot, I got rid of it. Seemed to shoot good though.

 

[mick243]

it does seem to be a double base powder, so separation of the NG from the NC will happen over time - if your storage conditions are cool and stable it will more than likely take a long time (ie multiple decades) but if your storage is at elevated temperatures or worse large temperature swings throughout the day it can begin within a few years.

this applies to all double base propellant powders and many other NG containing energetic materials.

almost all energetic materials become less stable over time especially with thermal cycling.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Edited to add: Wait, the poster (barefooter56) is Philip Hoham and supposedly works for Berger. However he's from Indiana and the Berger facility is in AZ. His signature line says Sedalia, MO. Something really fishy going on here.

I am pretty sure he worked for Berger when they were CA based also. He is the real deal.
That post was not the only one on this subject, there were others on accurate shooter too, and I believe on this site also. Actually, a mod on here used the term "oxidation'.
If I recall, opened containers left to sit idle were more of a culprit than jugs that were still sealed, but if you opened a container and used it, you would never see a glitch. BUT, back then, N500 series powders were only sold in 1 lb bottles, there were a few 2lb containers in the US when it was first distributed in around 2010. Today we can buy it in 8lb jugs.<Not implying anything here.

 

[secondofangle2]

Great discussion thanks guys

 

[Taylorbok]

I stocked up so I'm good for a while.
I didn't know about it getting hotter with age.
My experience with it is to short to judge it on barrel wear.
My charge master light throws it no problem but I do have a V4 on order.
I've shot it from +25C to -10C and my load has held the exact same velocity.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Somebody makes a wild unsubstantiated claim on the internet and before you know it, its gospel.

"Salt Bath Annealing doesn't work."

<SH reloading section buys the world's supply of AMP>

 

[Choid]

Why I'm Divesting of my Testicles, a thread on Sniper's Hide.

 

[secondofangle2]

You guys are funny

 

[mtang45]

@mtang45 can you describe or link what you’re talking about? I’m not tracking.

You are being redirected...

Its in the link to AccurateShooter provided by the OP.

 

[Blkbird6]

I shoot N570 in my 300NM. That stuff is dirty dirty dirty, but gives me good results.

 

[TylerN]

OP's reason #1 is on point. N570 is pure unobtanium.

 

[232593]

I just scored 16 LBs of it. I have a 338-378 I can use and try to duplicate @secondofangle2 ’s results. This thread started about 18 months ago, maybe Vihtavuori made some mods.

MTF

 

[Dogtown]

I was running so low that I started transitioning most of my loads to N170 earlier this year. It comes at a cost of about 100-150fps of velocity, but doesn't heat the barrel up anywhere as quickly as N570, so maybe it'll erode the throat a bit slower too?

 

[232593]

I was running so low that I started transitioning most of my loads to N170 earlier this year. It comes at a cost of about 100-150fps of velocity, but doesn't heat the barrel up anywhere as quickly as N570, so maybe it'll erode the throat a bit slower too?

I’m told that .408 is not that overbore so I wonder how much more quickly it would burn out a barrel as opposed to Retumbo or RL25? I’m thinking about testing it with CEB 425 grain lasers at some point.