Rifle Scopes Why No Elcans!!

[d762nato]

I know a lot of the folks around here are into precision type rifles and optics but is there no one that uses the Elcans around here? You certainly don't see much about them or see any used one's for sale. I've been looking for a lightly used 1.5x6 for awhile in the sale section and you just don't see them. I would think there would be a few battle rifle guys around here.
Well Thanks folks for helping out folks.

 

[Redmanss]

There's love here and there for them, just like for ACOGs too, just not much. This is a tactical precision forum, not minute of man, so anything "battle rifle" is fairly limited.

 

[d762nato]

There's love here and there for them, just like for ACOGs too, just not much. This is a tactical precision forum, not minute of man, so anything "battle rifle" is fairly limited.

Thank you Sir, makes sense I guess.

 

[Spuhr]

If you are into accuracy, external adjustments are not really the optimum.

If we take a normal 1-4X scope as an example.
The mount have a single purpose and that is the hold the scope in Place, and possible also some accesories.
The adjustment system works in a perfect enviroment free of dirt and holds a lensystem weighing 1-2 oz. maximum.

In a scope with external adjustments the scopemount should hold the scope in Place, even when you are least carefull and run with the scope into a doorway or drops the rifle.....
But at the same time the scopemount should be adjustable to precisely adjust the scope, but the weight the adjustment system should carry is now 10-40 oz depending on system.
and the adjustment system should be influenced by ice, water, sand, salt and all other kind of dirt.....

So Regardless of the name of the system, adjustable mounts are provocative!
(Yes I have made a few of them to, but it's still a less preferable solution than an integrated adjustment system)

Håkan

 

[Cobracutter]

I know a lot of the folks around here are into precision type rifles and optics but is there no one that uses the Elcans around here? You certainly don't see much about them or see any used one's for sale. I've been looking for a lightly used 1.5x6 for awhile in the sale section and you just don't see them. I would think there would be a few battle rifle guys around here.
Well Thanks folks for helping out folks.

Because they are shit optics. Absolutley horrible product for the money.

Just some of the issues:
Shifting Zero
Shifting POI between powers
Poor Tracking
Absolute WORST QD mount system known to man.
Heavy and Large
WHEN you have to send back to Canada for warranty repairs, customs confiscates your optic for ITAR violations.

TA11,TA31,TA33 are all vasty superior optics at less than half the price. If you need to go variable, NF, Vortex, USO, S&B all make much superior products.

The only reason ANYONE owns them is some tards at ATC/CRANE/SOCOM thought it would be a good idea. Guys who are issued dont give a shit or are not gun guys. Those that know better, use something else.

 

[d762nato]

If you are into accuracy, external adjustments are not really the optimum.

If we take a normal 1-4X scope as an example.
The mount have a single purpose and that is the hold the scope in Place, and possible also some accesories.
The adjustment system works in a perfect enviroment free of dirt and holds a lensystem weighing 1-2 oz. maximum.

In a scope with external adjustments the scopemount should hold the scope in Place, even when you are least carefull and run with the scope into a doorway or drops the rifle.....
But at the same time the scopemount should be adjustable to precisely adjust the scope, but the weight the adjustment system should carry is now 10-40 oz depending on system.
and the adjustment system should be influenced by ice, water, sand, salt and all other kind of dirt.....

So Regardless of the name of the system, adjustable mounts are provocative!
(Yes I have made a few of them to, but it's still a less preferable solution than an integrated adjustment system)

Håkan

Thank you for your insight.

Because they are shit optics. Absolutley horrible product for the money.

Just some of the issues:
Shifting Zero
Shifting POI between powers
Poor Tracking
Absolute WORST QD mount system known to man.
Heavy and Large
WHEN you have to send back to Canada for warranty repairs, customs confiscates your optic for ITAR violations.

TA11,TA31,TA33 are all vasty superior optics at less than half the price. If you need to go variable, NF, Vortex, USO, S&B all make much superior products.

The only reason ANYONE owns them is some tards at ATC/CRANE/SOCOM thought it would be a good idea. Guys who are issued dont give a shit or are not gun guys. Those that know better, use something else.

Well I can see you definitely don't like them. Have you had any experience with the newer elcans .Your right they aren't cheap either. My next step would be NF or USO if not an Elcan. I'm just looking for something that is a low/medium power variable that is compact for a gasser.

 

[deadnbrkn84]

That is a product i would never ever own. There is a million better things for that amount of money.

 

[42769vette]

That is a product i would never ever own. There is a million better things for that amount of money.

Roger that.

 

[Rstrick0352]

What Cobracutter said. I take my ACOG out of the armory every time over the elcan.

 

[d762nato]

That is a product i would never ever own. There is a million better things for that amount of money.

Roger that.

Thanks Fella's this is getting interesting as I've always heard....well mostly read that they were a quality optic these days. I may have to refocus I guess and go a different route.

 

[mewillis]

and don't forget the 1 year warranty...........
now that is confidence in your product!!!

 

[rideHPD]

Well I can see you definitely don't like them. Have you had any experience with the newer elcans .Your right they aren't cheap either. My next step would be NF or USO if not an Elcan. I'm just looking for something that is a low/medium power variable that is compact for a gasser.

My understanding is that the majority of the issues came from use on .308 SCARs that beat optics of all kinds to death. That said, they supposedly failed more often than other optics, and that the newer versions fixed some of these issues. Still, there are better quality optics available, and at the end of the day, while they are cool, who wants to spend money having to worry about it working when something else will. I've talked to some gun guys who have been issued them that stuck with them, but it was acknowledged that they are far from perfect.

TLDR: You can validate using it, but if you want the best for your money, buy something else.

 

[Redmanss]

I'll admit, I was trying to be nice earlier and hope you do your own research, that and I was in a rush last night but now I'll give the rest. I don't think they're a shit optic, just over priced for what you're getting and with poor reticle options for precision shooters.

In comparison: NF 2.5-10x32 with a GDI Mount for less than their 1-4x variable models. Vortex Razor II 1-6x in GDI for a decent bit cheaper. Trijicon VCOG for less than the Elcan 1-6x. Khales 1-5x or 1-6x in GDI for same or less than the Elcan 1.5-6x. I mention the GDI simply for a FAR superior mounting system and at the end of both pricing and quality spectrum, but ADM and others put out high quality mounts for a good bit less. Every one of the scopes I just mentioned are optically and/or mechanically superior to the ELCAN, and come from companies who stand behind their products for life.

While their fixed optics are MSRP priced near ACOGs, you can still get an ACOG at a fair bit less when you shop around.

There's better options out there for folks not wanting to be like SOF.

 

[Victory]

We ran them on our MK48's, and they worked well in that application. I wouldn't trust them or run them on anything other than a machine gun though.

 

[Cobracutter]

Thanks Fella's this is getting interesting as I've always heard....well mostly read that they were a quality optic these days. I may have to refocus I guess and go a different route.

Most people don't know their asshole from a hole in the ground.

You are either turned on or turned off. Be glad people who know better are sharing than the same of rally cries from the ignorant who don't know any better.

 

[Cobracutter]

We ran them on our MK48's, and they worked well in that application. I wouldn't trust them or run them on anything other than a machine gun though.

In all fairness, that's where they got their nut with the M145. Maybe someone here in the US saw the C7's with them and decided they would be carbine/rifle optics.......

The FOV is great on the Elcan, which makes a great MGO.

 

[Victory]

In all fairness, that's where they got their nut with the M145. Maybe someone here in the US saw the C7's with them and decided they would be carbine/rifle optics.......

The FOV is great on the Elcan, which makes a great MGO.

I wasn't a fan of the M145's, used them back in the early 2000's.

These were DR's, 1.5x6 which I felt was a great combo for a MG. The reticle was for a 5.56, but we just got some dope on them and figured the holds.

As with everything, if some ODA guy try's it, and some joes see it or the civilian world does, they all start rocking it in an attempt to be a cool guy.

 

[Clusterfrack]

Why No Elcans!!

That is a product i would never ever own. There is a million better things for that amount of money.

I'll have to let you try mine sometime. You may change your mind... We can do a direct comparison with my Mk6 1-6.

 

[deadnbrkn84]

Well I've shot through a few of them, and I don't think my mind would be changed. I would rather pick up a Razor 1-6x for half the money. I'm not depending on my AR for my life so I just can't see spending that kinda money on an optic for it. I know you've been quite happy with yours and that's awesome. Just to rich for my blood!

 

[Clusterfrack]

Yeah, I paid $1850 for my 1-4 DR. That is a bit more than a Razor and a nice mount.

 

[Bevan]

I like mine a lot and haven't had any of the problems the internet talks about but a 1-6 Mk6 would weigh/cost the same and probably be more flexible

 

[CSTactical]

I LOVE the ELCAN Specter DR scopes. I have used a lot of them and only 1 had an issue. They are my favorite 1-4x optic out there.

Mike @ CSTACTICAL

 

[KTDLS7]

Don't know where all the hate originates. I've been using a Specter DR 1-4x for over 4 years with no issues. There is no POI delta between 1x or 4x. The windage/elevation is a mechanical adjustment, not an internal erector. I have used it on a S&W M&P 22, 6920, 6933, and REPR 16". All required is a quick W/E adjustment to compensate between platforms & calibers.

Downside? It's heavier and more $ than a traditional optic.

 

[Victory]

It originates from people who have used them in conditions more telling than a range and a gun safe.

 

[d762nato]

I LOVE the ELCAN Specter DR scopes. I have used a lot of them and only 1 had an issue. They are my favorite 1-4x optic out there.

Mike @ CSTACTICAL

Mike you ever use the 1.5x6 on a 308 type platform, and what are your impressions of it if so. I was mainly looking for a really compact type variable optic that was high quality. Do you know if NF is going to be releasing their 2.5x10x24 any time soon? Maybe with the Moar reticle. Thanks,

 

[Redmanss]

Nightforce did a recent release of VERY limited numbers of 2.5-10x24 models. They lasted about all of two days. They come up all the time used though, and NF offers reticle and turret conversions.

 

[Cobracutter]

I'll have to let you try mine sometime. You may change your mind... We can do a direct comparison with my Mk6 1-6.

In an effort to turn a profit, I hear Elcan made more than one optic.... crazy I know.

 

[Cobracutter]

Don't know where all the hate originates. I've been using a Specter DR 1-4x for over 4 years with no issues. There is no POI delta between 1x or 4x. The windage/elevation is a mechanical adjustment, not an internal erector. I have used it on a S&W M&P 22, 6920, 6933, and REPR 16". All required is a quick W/E adjustment to compensate between platforms & calibers.

Downside? It's heavier and more $ than a traditional optic.

Combination of ignorance, poor situational awareness and lack of experience.

Victory states this perfectly in one sentence.

 

[Cobracutter]

Nightforce did a recent release of VERY limited numbers of 2.5-10x24 models. They lasted about all of two days. They come up all the time used though, and NF offers reticle and turret conversions.

Last I heard it was around $600 for the reticle conversion and adding ZS turrets. Even at $1400 for a used one, you are at $2K for argubaly the finest compact combat optic ever made.

 

[Cobracutter]

Mike you ever use the 1.5x6 on a 308 type platform, and what are your impressions of it if so. I was mainly looking for a really compact type variable optic that was high quality. Do you know if NF is going to be releasing their 2.5x10x24 any time soon? Maybe with the Moar reticle. Thanks,

When was the last time you saw a SALESMAN, bashing a product he pushes?

These kind of questions are rhetorical.

 

[Clusterfrack]

In an effort to turn a profit, I hear Elcan made more than one optic.... crazy I know.

Was I fukin talking to you? No. I was talking to my buddy deadnbrkn84.

 

[CSTactical]

Do you know if NF is going to be releasing their 2.5x10x24 any time soon? Maybe with the Moar reticle. Thanks,

They did but only just a few came out. They are out there but will be hard to find.

 

[d762nato]

Nightforce did a recent release of VERY limited numbers of 2.5-10x24 models. They lasted about all of two days. They come up all the time used though, and NF offers reticle and turret conversions.

Yes I wouldn't mind getting a hold of one with the mil reticle, but like you said their hard to find and pricey when you do. Although less than an Elcan 1.5x6 but you also have to pick up a good mount and rings.

They did but only just a few came out. They are out there but will be hard to find.

I noticed that, Thanks. Hmm! maybe a US optics?

 

[jasonfaz]

I like mine. It's heavy, but short enough to be perfect for SBRs. That shit has better glass than any ACOG, 1-4x NF, etc. Fucking beautiful. Reticle illumination sets it apart as well - center dot only vs full reticle. Variable intensities and right CL for NV. You can't go from 1x to 4x faster than an Elcan can. Love it for high rate of fire under 150 yds and medium rate to 350-400 yards.

It's built like a tank. Ive pissed on mine multiple times to melt the ice off of it after leaving it in the snow overnight on a hunt. Other than the smell....no worries.

On the other hand the mounting system really does blow and you can't adjust CL for the height you prefer based on the top rail height (piston vs DI) that you have it on. I wouldn't ever consider the 1-6x. The 1-4x is the only one I'd see value in. The 1-6 is fucking gigantic. IMO, you lose every bit of value the Elcan provides when you hit the gargantuan 1-6. At that point, every single variable optic up to 1-10x destroys the Elcan in all sorts of ways. But back to the 1-4x (which is available in a .308 reticle)...

While it's certainly heavy, let's be real here folks...it ain't Vortex Gen II heavy. Now THAT shit is heavy.

Mine hasn't lost zero in 5 years, but I do kind of expect it to considering the "word on the street." At that time, I probably will consider re-zeroing. My pissing on it might be preventing this loss of zero to occur, however. Thus, I shall continue to do so as the opportunity presents itself.

#ElcanAsFuck
#ThatNorthFaceThough

 

[FlyfishNM]

The 1-4x elcan is simply amazing for what it is. For me it is in the category of eotech, aimpoint, acog. It is NOT a precision optic, but it does excel in the fore mentioned category. It can be used as a red dot on 1x and with the flip of a lever your good for 4 to 500 yards minute of man (and probably better than that if you are a better shooter than I).Did I mention the glass is superb? As well as the illumination? Most of the negative came from the first generation of these things. As far as losing zero, I don't know how this happens. It's not like you are dialing elevation and windage. You set your zero and use holdovers... Period. That being said, would I own a 6x elcan? Probably not. I feel there are much better options in that range. Most have already been mentioned, but the top of my list for a scar 17, after all that is what the OP is looking to glass, would be a vortex gen 2 or a NF 2.5-10.
As far as price goes, they are fucking expensive. But then again, if you can afford it and know its limitations then I say go for it!
Oh, and I expect for "cobra clutter" to further shit on this thread, like he always does. But we can't all know everything.

 

[FlyfishNM]

I wasn't a fan of the M145's, used them back in the early 2000's.

These were DR's, 1.5x6 which I felt was a great combo for a MG. The reticle was for a 5.56, but we just got some dope on them and figured the holds.

As with everything, if some ODA guy try's it, and some joes see it or the civilian world does, they all start rocking it in an attempt to be a cool guy.

Oh please. The douche baggery knows no bounds. For anybody considering this optic please reconsider. You are nowhere near cool enough to own one.

 

[Victory]

So because I've used multiple models of Elcan and didn't like them, I'm a douche bag? They are Machine gun optics that have point of impact shifts between powers. I could careless if you bought one and want to justify your purchase. I've used them multiple times and thought they sucked.

If you think I'm fucked up for saying what I did about the ODA thing, go to any shooting comp and take a look around, or any police department, bunch of gear queer camo queens. And honestly, I don't think that is a bad thing, just don't get butt hurt because it is true.

 

[dangerdan87]

Mine has been dead on. No issues with it at all. I think it's a great combat optic.
I did have to send to Canada for then to repair a heli-coil for the MRD mount. They shipped it back fed-ex overnight on their dime. I had it back less than a week. They didn't charge me for anything.

My ACOG took about 3 weeks to get back when I sent it off to get repaired.

 

[baue]

Not American enough...next question

 

[bobtodrick]

Man, this is better than an episode of Keeping up with the Kardashians!!

 

[jasonfaz]

Not American enough...next question

View attachment 48810

You know you're a BAMF when you've slayed tigers in the middle of the ocean, during a hurricane, with a pirate sword, all by yourself, in a wooden row boat. G dub clearly knew how to operate. Imagine how much more badassery he would have emitted if he had an Elcan SpecterDR!

 

[CSTactical]

This is on a 16" lightweight barrel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xZQ6PyB2zg&list=PLC3502627A803A89F

 

[Cobracutter]

Oh please. The douche baggery knows no bounds. For anybody considering this optic please reconsider. You are nowhere near cool enough to own one.

Whats your credentials there sport? I guess the ODA, Team guys and guys in Regiment are all fucking douchebags to for having the exact same opinion as victory. Fuck them, its not like they are issued this shit and train with it in austere conditions.........

You been on this site less than 3 months and already your balls have gotten to big for your pants.

YOU and people like you are THE problem with this site. Ignorant, in-experienced and think that the 150rnds they shoot into a dirt pile each year qualify them with an opinion.

If you have an ounce of common sense, you would shut the fuck up and try to learn something. You are doing nothing but wasting yours and everyone's time with your useless bullshit.

 

[FlyfishNM]

Originally Posted by Cobracutter
"I have yet to meet someone who peddles this shit come close to my level of firearms competence and knowledge."
Nuff said. Let's see what you are all about. You are the biggest known troll on this site. Fuck your credentials, fuck my credentials. Some of us don't feel the need to chest beat. I propose a duel... Of sorts. Since you are a known scar 17 fanboy, surely you own one. This is just part one of two: 800 yards, pick your target whether it be steel or paper, position of your choosing, 5 shot group, max magnification 8x,(I'll be using 6x), has to be on video with no editing, straight up five shots in a row. Fowlers, barrel Warmers, sighters are fine but five consecutive shots.
Part 2: take your trusty ar, I'll take mine with the elcan at 500 yards. Same rules as above apply but max magnification will be 4x and no variants, has to be .223
If you win I'll never post another thread on this site besides the one congratulating you. Oh, and if you don't own anything in the fore mentioned calibers, let me know what works for you. Ball's in your court........bitch.

 

[morganlamprecht]

Originally Posted by Cobracutter
"I have yet to meet someone who peddles this shit come close to my level of firearms competence and knowledge."
Nuff said. Let's see what you are all about. You are the biggest known troll on this site. Fuck your credentials, fuck my credentials. Some of us don't feel the need to chest beat. I propose a duel... Of sorts. Since you are a known scar 17 fanboy, surely you own one. This is just part one of two: 800 yards, pick your target whether it be steel or paper, position of your choosing, 5 shot group, max magnification 8x,(I'll be using 6x), has to be on video with no editing, straight up five shots in a row. Fowlers, barrel Warmers, sighters are fine but five consecutive shots.
Part 2: take your trusty ar, I'll take mine with the elcan at 500 yards. Same rules as above apply but max magnification will be 4x and no variants, has to be .223
If you win I'll never post another thread on this site besides the one congratulating you. Oh, and if you don't own anything in the fore mentioned calibers, let me know what works for you. Ball's in your court........bitch.

Lol I'm in for this

 

[Mormegil87]

This is going to be good

 

[Toast]

I like mine a lot and haven't had any of the problems the internet talks about but a 1-6 Mk6 would weigh/cost the same and probably be more flexible

from the looks of it, I think the rifle is worth more than the car.

 

[Victory]

FlyfishNM, question for you since you seem to be pretty defensive about the Elcans. Have they changed anything to the build of the 1.5x6 systems since they first came out?

I've seen POI shifts when going in between powers. A couple of guys were going to run them when we were given them, but after zeroing and running some drills with them, we decided not to. One of our guys had the idea to run them on the MK48's, which worked well as I said before. I think the idea with the ELCAN is great and being able to flip between powers that fast is a huge advantage over other systems out, but is that system the way it is built now repeatable when it counts in rugged high use environments? For me, I don't think they are where they need to be yet.

So have they been improved? Is that issue only with the 1.5x6 and not the 4's?
I'm not an expert on anything and don't keep track of every product improvement across the board of tactical optics, weapons, or gear in general. Any insight would be great, as opposed to dick measuring contest.

 

[HKpirate]

This will be a unpopular statement for sure but...

Cobra comes off as a jackass sometimes and you may not like his opinion or his way of getting his point across.
Yet he may be the most consistent person when it comes to opinions he expects the utmost reliability and accuracy out of what ever it is.
yeah he can be a dick sometimes but after you get over the butt hurt of him telling you why he believes it sucks it may sink in. One of the best pieces of advice I was ever given was listen to everyone's opinion and choose what you want to let sink in.
In his first post he listed reasons why he disliked the optic that were later reiterated multiple times by what we could all agree is a credible user.
What exactly was the end point of the penis tugging video challenge?
If the scope works great for you and your use who gives a shit you would think cobra kicked your dog and ran off with your girl the way some of you act.

 

[JohnnyC]

I have one. I haven't babied it. I haven't had any problems. I am a sample size of one, and I am very likely to believe I got lucky. I think in general they're marginal across the board, but I got it for a song and it's been functional and reliable. I would not pay real money prices for it, that would be a shitty gamble to take. I would not purchase another one as I feel like I've used up all my luck on this one.