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Why Not Aluminum For Bolt Action Receivers?
- Thread starter Ronin22
- Start date
Aluminum will not last as long as a steel action. In time the stress of the repeated firings and hard use will result in the bolt running loose in the action. it can be hard, it can be light . All of these are trade offs. For a hunting rifle it would be fine for a PRS rifle it would suck!
Aluminum bolt action receivers are available, kelbly is the first that comes to mind:
They have steel tenon and lug inserts as well as a steel extraction cam surface, but the rest of the action body is aluminum.
Aluminum Rifle Actions - Kelbly Rifle Actions
Our Stolle line of actions are made of Aluminum and alloy steel, providing unmatched lightness and durability. Check out these precision actions today!
kelbly.com
They have steel tenon and lug inserts as well as a steel extraction cam surface, but the rest of the action body is aluminum.
To some extent yes. Difference is the weight of the barrel hanging 26” off the front of the action. Also bolts most often fire bigger, heavier recoiling rounds . ARs also shed chamber pressure faster than bolt guns. As was said above the existing action have steel reinforced structures. Take an aluminum action shotgun and a steel action gun and start shooting competition and you will buy a new shotgun fairly soon with an aluminum shotgun, steel will go 100s of thousands of rounds. I used the shotgun example because I have seen it happen. Guys who shoot competition rifles will have to chime in.
It works on an AR15 because it has an extension for the bolt to lock into. Are you specifically talking about bolt actions that have this or are you not aware that bolt actions typically don't have this kind of setup?
They have a steel bolt that locks into a steel barrel extension. Even then the bolts and barrels get replaced fairly often. It's not uncommon for 1 or more of the bolt locking lugs to break off, but you can also swap in a $50 bolt in 2 minutes.
For my money I like steel. It's a little more comforting knowing the pic rail and scope base is able to handle abuse better. Screws going into steel, vs screws going into aluminum. Let alone the pic rail getting damaged easier.
Very astute answer!
I didn't even know there were aluminum bolt actions that had steel reinforcements, however, the fact that aluminum bolt gun receivers are reinforced in the areas with steel pretty much answers my questions of curiosity on the matter.
It seems the logic flow of this is why mainstream bolt gun actions are steel, and it is easier/cheaper/most profit to make receivers out of steel, than to manufacture a product that requires more sophisticated machining to insert steel areas into aluminum areas.
Bat bumblebee and vampires are aluminum, and strong as F, and pretty damn light. Their only down fall is the flat bottom which makes inlets and bedding challenging. My pair have been bulletproof and I've ran some hot ass handload through them, they don't break a sweat. You don't get bolt lift until your about to lose primer pockets so you gotta be careful.
Only in your midget mind! The makers build what the market demands and produces the least risk. For bolt actions as an engineer I will not buy an Aluminum action unless it was for an ultra endurance hike in hunting trip. There are Titanium actions and maybe some other materials. Aluminum is a niche action. Light weight steel actions ( impact 707 as an example , there are others) come within 5-8 ozs of the aluminum and are superior in longevity. Are the Aluminum actions bad, no, but there are trade offs to each option.
It's more because bolt action design goes back way further than the use of aluminum in firearms construction and the standard designs would not survive long made out of aluminum. It's not typically a matter of sophisticated maching as much as it is a matter of redesigning the mechanism.
I thought you had really good input on the matter, but you declare you're an engineer and you fucking clowns think you know everything and pollute the forums with your egg head shit. So, fuck you for not even being able to accept a compliment.
A 707 weighs 34oz with hawkins hybrids(theyre 3-4 oz) so it's a 30oz action, without a Pic rail, the NBK is lighter than that with integral lug and rail. 707R isn't a lightweight. It's heavier than an origin or Tl3 if you take the rail off.
The design if the firearm dictates what type of reciever may be used.
Steel usually has has the reciever as the lock up, aluminum usually has, steel inserts, Or the barrel or barrel extension as the lockup. So no stress is on the aluminum reciever, but barrel to bolt lockup contains the pressure, and the aluminum reciever is just a bolt guide.
AR s work this way and go many thousands of roulds with little reciever wear.
AR bolt carrier can be made out of aluminum, but the bolt is steel.
I have an AR 10 magnesium reciever in a 6 lb 308 I run 62,000 psi max pressure ammo in and it's accurate. The carrier is titanium, but the bolt is steel.
A Picture worth a thousand words...
Here is barrel to bolt lockup.
Take out the go gauge, insert a cartridge, put a small skinny nail, or firing pin, down the firing pin hole, smack with a small hammer and it will fire a bullet right down the barrel & lathe spindle with no ill effect. Just turn the bolt and take out the spent cartridge...no reciever needed. This is what contains the pressure...steel.
Next pic another common design, the locking lugs are part of the reciever which is all steel, and where the bolt lugs lock up with, has to be enough steel to contain the pressure...after that it could be aluminum.
Steel usually has has the reciever as the lock up, aluminum usually has, steel inserts, Or the barrel or barrel extension as the lockup. So no stress is on the aluminum reciever, but barrel to bolt lockup contains the pressure, and the aluminum reciever is just a bolt guide.
AR s work this way and go many thousands of roulds with little reciever wear.
AR bolt carrier can be made out of aluminum, but the bolt is steel.
I have an AR 10 magnesium reciever in a 6 lb 308 I run 62,000 psi max pressure ammo in and it's accurate. The carrier is titanium, but the bolt is steel.
A Picture worth a thousand words...
Here is barrel to bolt lockup.
Take out the go gauge, insert a cartridge, put a small skinny nail, or firing pin, down the firing pin hole, smack with a small hammer and it will fire a bullet right down the barrel & lathe spindle with no ill effect. Just turn the bolt and take out the spent cartridge...no reciever needed. This is what contains the pressure...steel.
Next pic another common design, the locking lugs are part of the reciever which is all steel, and where the bolt lugs lock up with, has to be enough steel to contain the pressure...after that it could be aluminum.
Attachments
I have the bat bumblebee and am quite happy with it as a hunting rifle/occasional range toy
Why no aluminum bolt action receivers? The same reason we don’t build houses and cars out of paper mâché…
Look around, it’s Snipershide, not lightweight mountain hunting rifle hide.
A vast majority of the men and women who frequent here shoot heavy bolt rifles. Steel weighs more than aluminum. If a fellow is building a rifle to a specific weight, to minimize recoil see impacts and be able to make quick follow-up shots, his first thought is not, How Light Can I Make My Rifle. These men and women add steel weights to their rifles. With that point in mind what is the point of trying to make the receiver light?
A vast majority of the men and women who frequent here shoot heavy bolt rifles. Steel weighs more than aluminum. If a fellow is building a rifle to a specific weight, to minimize recoil see impacts and be able to make quick follow-up shots, his first thought is not, How Light Can I Make My Rifle. These men and women add steel weights to their rifles. With that point in mind what is the point of trying to make the receiver light?
Doesn’t matter to the OP. He came here with an agenda ( and hatred for engineers
, actually that one I get). But hay always good to look at other things, even ones the audience will hate.Actually the bolt on an AR locks up on the barrel extension which is steel and attached to the barrel not the receiver.
Actually, I did a poor job, got off tract of what I wanted to say which was simply steel weighs more and often that is an advantage. Kind got taken aback by the gimmick remark. Sounded pretty stupid to me.Doesn’t matter to the OP. He came here with an agenda ( and hatred for engineers
AR do Not shed chamber pressure faster, where it matters.
Maximum chamber pressure is reached very early while the bolt and barrel are still locked together. Only after the pressure has fallen way off is any gas bled off through the gas port to operate the action.
I shoot a 338 Ruger Compact Magnum in one of mt AR 10s with full loading manual max loads, 62 to 65,000psi...it's also accurate.
I have ARs with full heavy 24" barrels, not quite 26" but they work well.
ARs fire full auto for many thousands of rounds on aluminum recievers.
I have fired a thousand rds in one outing with a modified Colt Hbar, reaching 1085 rounds per minute.
How about the 8 and 10 thousand round torture tests with ARs mag after mag...smoking, getting red hot, until something breaks.
The best was full auto 8000 rds until something broke...the guy had a protective suit and blast helmet, just in case.
The forward assist spring broke around 8000 rds, the forward assist stopped the bolt. Take out the forward assist, dumped another mag end of test, out of ammo.
Shotguns I have both steel and aluminum recievers. Both work, I kinda lean toward the steel receiver, mostly cause it's an auto loader.
But the aluminum receivered 18" pump full magazine, would be a better combat shotgun in wet adverse conditions, light, less to rust, slick action, always works.
This thread has shown us the 3 reasons
1. Aluminum design and manufacturing wasn't a viable option when many actions were designed, and they never changed it.
2. There is no reason make the system lighter, so steel is better.
3. The general public.....
1. Aluminum design and manufacturing wasn't a viable option when many actions were designed, and they never changed it.
2. There is no reason make the system lighter, so steel is better.
3. The general public.....
My biggest concern with an aluminum receiver would be the hardness. Compared to a hardened steel aluminum is extremely soft. The gun might hold up for a while but as you shoot it more and more the steel bolt is going to start wearing at the receiver, your tolerances will open up, and then bad things might happen.
The reason is in the Stress/Strain curves for Aluminum versus steel.
Steel has the property that as long as you don’t exceed the strain limit, the steel will assume it’s original dimensions when the stress is relieved.
Aluminum will not have the same allowable strain as steel for a comparable stress.
Aluminum is also subject to corrosion for caustics and if not used correctly can have brittle fracture at low temperatures.
As Posted, I have learned that there are other bolt actions where the reciever is aluminum and there are steel parts where the stress is contained.
The lower on an AR does not contain any pressure and aluminum is ok.
-Richard
Steel has the property that as long as you don’t exceed the strain limit, the steel will assume it’s original dimensions when the stress is relieved.
Aluminum will not have the same allowable strain as steel for a comparable stress.
Aluminum is also subject to corrosion for caustics and if not used correctly can have brittle fracture at low temperatures.
As Posted, I have learned that there are other bolt actions where the reciever is aluminum and there are steel parts where the stress is contained.
The lower on an AR does not contain any pressure and aluminum is ok.
-Richard
No. That's not how it works.
Aluminum receivers have steel threaded inserts within.
The barrel is threaded into it, and the bolt lugs bear against the steel insert.
Do some research and educate yourself before you spout off bad information.
Adding to this, most steel used in guns is straight garbage.
Yes, custom actions are typically made from quality materials, but most factory actions are soft, low strength alloys.
Aluminum can be designed to work in a bolt rifle but it would have to be physically larger to have the same strength. Aluminum also has a different rate of expansion as it get hot which is why aluminum scope rings on steel receivers sometimes work loose over time with heat cycles and vibration.
For this type of application for the same tensile strength steel is most likely going to be lighter than Aluminum for each part. That was our findings when looking to replace many structural steel parts with aluminum in the solar power world. Since weight of shipping was an important factor we wanted the lightest parts that would meet the load bearing requirements. In nearly every case we ended up with steel. For the same strength the aluminum part will almost always cost more as well.
Aluminum does have other advantages. It is easier to machine and does not rust. It can corrode but that varies with the alloy used. Using an Aluminum receiver with a steel bbl seems to be problematic in that the bbl might work loose over time in the receiver but that could probably be designed away with some innovative thought.
For this type of application for the same tensile strength steel is most likely going to be lighter than Aluminum for each part. That was our findings when looking to replace many structural steel parts with aluminum in the solar power world. Since weight of shipping was an important factor we wanted the lightest parts that would meet the load bearing requirements. In nearly every case we ended up with steel. For the same strength the aluminum part will almost always cost more as well.
Aluminum does have other advantages. It is easier to machine and does not rust. It can corrode but that varies with the alloy used. Using an Aluminum receiver with a steel bbl seems to be problematic in that the bbl might work loose over time in the receiver but that could probably be designed away with some innovative thought.
