Suppressors Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

[silverphoenix]

So why isn't there a greater movement to get the rediculous NFA rules changed on suppressors? There's absolutely no reason we should have to jump through hoops for suppressors as we have to do now.

They're a courtesy to fellow marksmen at the range, a courtesy to fellow hunters (won't scare off all the deer for a mile around, thereby ruining the hunting for your neighbors), and it makes things much easier on your own ears.

They obviously only have a bad stigma because of hollywood bullshit where they make it look like a suppressor completely eliminates the sound. Shooting someone and the person in the next room not knowing about it--hollywood bullshit. Shooting a suppressed .308 and it sounds like a bb gun, pure BS and nothing more.

So the fact of the matter is that only .22's can be fully suppressed (silenced I guess). So why the NFA? Is this just another one of those gun laws that has no actual basis in reality other than the "scary" factor for uninformed individuals?

 

[chrisboc]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

You know how the government works. If they can't get rid of it tax the hell out of it.

 

[68GT]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

repeal an existing tax?... thats funny

 

[ADT]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chrisboc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know how the government works. If they can't get rid of it tax the hell out of it. </div></div> +1

 

[HOOFER]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

i dont like the tax, but at the same time do you really want to just be able to walk in a store and buy one. i know it sounds good, but most people think you have to have a class three license to own a suppressor and only dealers can have them sometimes thats prolly not a bad thing. im with you, but hoops sometimes are deterrents from the not so serious/responsible owners of them. i think if they were readily available at low cost, they would be illegal soon because of all the illegal activities they would be involved in. poaching, shootings, that sort of shit, the people who own them now know that the penalties are heavy.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RQI</div><div class="ubbcode-body">repeal an existing tax?... thats funny </div></div>

200 bucks was an assload of money in the 30's, today not so, I think we are lucky the tax hasn't gone up, asking for it to go away is a dream.

 

[crumpmd]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lone_soldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> but at the same time do you really want to just be able to walk in a store and buy one. i think if they were readily available at low cost, they would be illegal soon because of all the illegal activities they would be involved in. poaching, shootings, that sort of shit, the people who own them now know that the penalties are heavy. </div></div>

Exactly. Yes we want to walk into our gun dealer and buy a silencer for the gun we are shooting. No forms and no tax.

All the other Shit is already going on, without silencers. What difference will it make.

 

[HOOFER]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

yeah i get what your saying, most people who want NFA items buy them illegally anyway. but when was the last time you saw someone break the law with a legally purchased and owned suppressor, and when was the last time you saw someone break the law with a legal firearm. if they were the same availabilitiy i think suppressors would inevidablely become illegal all together. for most non shooting types a crime with a gun would be 2x worse if it was a gun with a legally purchased suppressor most people think they are illegal

 

[chpprguy]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RQI</div><div class="ubbcode-body">repeal an existing tax?... thats funny </div></div>

200 bucks was an assload of money in the 30's, today not so, I think we are lucky the tax hasn't gone up, asking for it to go away is a dream. </div></div>

my thoughts as well......

 

[idahoshooter]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

I think it would be cool if the 86 bill banning the creation of new full autos would go away, but I dont think it ever will. Shoot, if they taxed it at 5k a pop they would still make a ton of money.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lone_soldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yeah i get what your saying, most people who want NFA items buy them illegally anyway. but when was the last time you saw someone break the law with a legally purchased and owned suppressor, and when was the last time you saw someone break the law with a legal firearm. if they were the same availabilitiy i think suppressors would inevidablely become illegal all together. for most non shooting types a crime with a gun would be 2x worse if it was a gun with a legally purchased suppressor most people think they are illegal </div></div>


I'm thinking virginia tech was the last huge incident with a legally owned firearm.

 

[dirkreader]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: idahoshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it would be cool if the 86 bill banning the creation of new full autos would go away, but I dont think it ever will. Shoot, if they taxed it at 5k a pop they would still make a ton of money. </div></div>

I don't think I would play at $5K a pop, but I'm with you. It would be great to be able to by new ones.

 

[bohem]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

There were over a million form 1's, 2's, 3's and 4's last year alone.

200 bucks each for a million forms? 200 million dollars in revenue... they're not going to get rid of that.

Lone_soldier, the mentality you've adopted about suppressors is akin to how anti-gun people see firearms in general, yet it's been shown time and time again that legally owned firearms do not contribute in any meaningful way to crime statistics. I'm not going to continue the argument beyond this, your mentality is a very easy slope to start towards total confiscation and disarmament for all citizens.

 

[silverphoenix]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

I would definitely like to be able to walk into a store and buy a suppressor without it being a NFA item and having to pay the $200, jump through fiery hoops, and get it transferred through a class III. It should be classified as any gun part or any upper. I wouldn't mind it having to be an FFL transferred item, but all the paperwork and tax is ridiculous.

99.9% of guns pretty much are never used in a crime. About 95% or so of those 0.01% are bought illegally. Pretty much all of those are cheap--not kimbers or colts--more like high points, cheap revolvers, cheap shotguns, etc.

Suppressors are pretty expensive--even one for a .22 is at least $400 at the very cheapest I've seen. Most are $800 and above for higher calibers--this alone will keep them out of criminal hands. The criminals who have enough money to buy these have enough money to get them through the black market anyways.

So again, why isn't anyone making a move to get the tax repealed?

 

[idahoshooter]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

No politician has the balls to bring it up, especially in this political climate. There are too many people that in general dont mind guns, but see no reason to repeal the law. More people watch movies and think they are bad than people who understand that having a silencer does not automatically mean someone is going to die. Kinda like the 86 bill I mentioned. I dont have the stats, but Im willing to bet the number of crimes committed with legally owned machine guns is astronomically low. Do I think there is any chance of repealing it, no. Does it suck huge donkey dick, absolutely. Id be tickled pink if I could have a 3 shot burst ar

.

 

[idahoshooter]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooty Puff Sr.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: idahoshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it would be cool if the 86 bill banning the creation of new full autos would go away, but I dont think it ever will. Shoot, if they taxed it at 5k a pop they would still make a ton of money. </div></div>

I don't think I would play at $5K a pop, but I'm with you. It would be great to be able to by new ones. </div></div>

Youd scrape up the dough to pickup a trigger for your ar, dont lie to me

.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lone_soldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yeah i get what your saying, most people who want NFA items buy them illegally anyway. but when was the last time you saw someone break the law with a legally purchased and owned suppressor, and when was the last time you saw someone break the law with a legal firearm. if they were the same availabilitiy i think suppressors would inevidablely become illegal all together. for most non shooting types a crime with a gun would be 2x worse if it was a gun with a legally purchased suppressor most people think they are illegal </div></div>


I'm thinking virginia tech was the last huge incident with a legally owned firearm.

</div></div>

That wasn't legally owned. That guy was mentally defective, had done time in a mental institution, and lied on the 4473 in order to buy his firearms.

I think you guys would be surprised that most countries don't have many restrictions on silencers. Most countries also have nowhere near the number of guns we have in civilian hands, and much less gun crime.

I don't think relaxing the rules on who could own a silencer would change anything one way or the other, but I imagine the political backlash from repealing a law like that would be nuts.

 

[KYS]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: silverphoenix</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So why isn't there a greater movement to get the rediculous NFA rules changed on suppressors? There's absolutely no reason we should have to jump through hoops for suppressors as we have to do now.

They're a courtesy to fellow marksmen at the range, a courtesy to fellow hunters (won't scare off all the deer for a mile around, thereby ruining the hunting for your neighbors), and it makes things much easier on your own ears.

They obviously only have a bad stigma because of hollywood bullshit where they make it look like a suppressor completely eliminates the sound. Shooting someone and the person in the next room not knowing about it--hollywood bullshit. Shooting a suppressed .308 and it sounds like a bb gun, pure BS and nothing more.

<span style="color: #3366FF">So the fact of the matter is that only .22's can be fully suppressed (silenced I guess)</span>. So why the NFA? Is this just another one of those gun laws that has no actual basis in reality other than the "scary" factor for uninformed individuals? </div></div>

ummm no. you cant fully silence any firearm. Thats hollywood bullshit right there! see you bought into it as well. They will make noise no matter what.

 

[KYS]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: silverphoenix</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would definitely like to be able to walk into a store and buy a suppressor without it being a NFA item and having to pay the $200, jump through fiery hoops, and get it transferred through a class III. It should be classified as any gun part or any upper. I wouldn't mind it having to be an FFL transferred item, but all the paperwork and tax is ridiculous.

99.9% of guns pretty much are never used in a crime. About 95% or so of those 0.01% are bought illegally. Pretty much all of those are cheap--not kimbers or colts--more like high points, cheap revolvers, cheap shotguns, etc.

<span style="color: #3366FF">Suppressors are pretty expensive--even one for a .22 is at least $400 at the very cheapest I've seen. </span>Most are $800 and above for higher calibers--this alone will keep them out of criminal hands. The criminals who have enough money to buy these have enough money to get them through the black market anyways.

So again, why isn't anyone making a move to get the tax repealed? </div></div>

again, you are wrong. There are plenty of suppressors out there that are less then 350 for a 22lr. My good buddies first suppressor ever was a Lauer (sp?) Predator 22 and he got it from our local dealer for $225.00

If a criminal wants a suppressor, they can get them. Weather they steal them or have them made. not every dirty gun is bought off "the black market"

How long have you been off the xbox?

Where do you get your factual information for 99.99% of guns are bought legally? Have you read about all the firearms being bought here ILLEGALLY then taken to Mexico so the cartels can shoot each other all to pieces?

 

[Outsydlooknin75]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

I have 2 suppressors right now, that I have a TOTAL of 500 bucks invested in them. They are both brand name manufacturers cans, one I bought as a demo, the other was given to me .... I have paid the tax stamps to own them on each at 200 bucks a pop. One of them is a 22 the other is a 223 can.

 

[Double-edged]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lone_soldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont like the tax, but at the same time do you really want to just be able to walk in a store and buy one. i know it sounds good, but most people think you have to have a class three license to own a suppressor and only dealers can have them sometimes thats prolly not a bad thing. im with you, but hoops sometimes are deterrents from the not so serious/responsible owners of them. i think if they were readily available at low cost, they would be illegal soon because of all the illegal activities they would be involved in. poaching, shootings, that sort of shit, the people who own them now know that the penalties are heavy. </div></div>

That's no different than saying concealed carry is bad because if you make it legal than people will be shooting each other in the streets.

MANY other countries have legal suppressors and people aren't shooting anyone with them.

 

[Quicky06]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

It would be a nice idea but in reality I don't want most of the people I know to be able to walk into a shop and walk out with a suppressor.

But on the other hand. I did a research paper in high school(2006) about gun control. Every source I could find including the FBI stated that atleast 3/4 of violent crimes that involved a firearm the gun was illegality possesed or purchased.

Gun laws are like door locks on your house. They keep honest people honest. But if somebody wants in. They'll do it

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

firearms are a right. not sbr's, machinegun's, suppressors etc.

Be happy they aren't totally illegal

 

[silverphoenix]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
ummm no. you cant fully silence any firearm. Thats hollywood bullshit right there! see you bought into it as well. They will make noise no matter what. </div></div>

Are you kidding me? I'm talking about suppressed with subsonic ammunition as being fully suppressed only--I have shot .22 subsonics with a can and you can barely hear anything. If you want to get into technicalities with decibels, then you have some credence there, but I'm talking about perception.

 

[skinney_7]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RQI</div><div class="ubbcode-body">repeal an existing tax?... thats funny </div></div>

200 bucks was an assload of money in the 30's, today not so, I think we are lucky the tax hasn't gone up, asking for it to go away is a dream. </div></div>

200 bones is alot to me... especially when i have 5 cans sitting in my safe, if my math is correct i could be using that tax bull$hit to buy me another AR or suppressor, just sayin.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">firearms are a right. not sbr's, machinegun's, suppressors etc.

Be happy they aren't totally illegal </div></div>

It has yet to be decided by the courts if SBRs and machine guns are protected by the 2nd Amendment. Banning them entirely would, likely, be unconstitutional, as I think they do have at least some 2A protection.

There is nothing in the Constitution that suggests that rights cannot be regulated, but the Supreme Court has invented ways to constrain the government's ability to regulate our rights. How this will apply to the 2A is also yet unanswered as of today.

ANY law, regardless of whether it has constitutional implications at all, must have a rational purpose. Is there any rational purpose for banning SBRs (which are in use right now by our military), silencers, etc.? I think one would have to really reach to find such an argument. Regulating them? I think that'd be pretty easy to substantiate.

If SBRs, machine guns, etc., are considered "arms" under the meaning of the 2A, all of that goes out the window, though. Laws will have to pass a stricter standard than the rational basis test to be constitutional.

It is very possible that the NFA is constitutional. I highly doubt that banning an entire class of arms that are in use by our infantry on a daily basis would result in the same conclusion.

 

[silverphoenix]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
again, you are wrong. There are plenty of suppressors out there that are less then 350 for a 22lr. My good buddies first suppressor ever was a Lauer (sp?) Predator 22 and he got it from our local dealer for $225.00

If a criminal wants a suppressor, they can get them. Weather they steal them or have them made. not every dirty gun is bought off "the black market"

How long have you been off the xbox?

Where do you get your factual information for 99.99% of guns are bought legally? Have you read about all the firearms being bought here ILLEGALLY then taken to Mexico so the cartels can shoot each other all to pieces?

</div></div>

Ok, so I stand corrected on the prices.

Yes criminals will get ahold of anything they want--by "black market" you know what I mean--one person steals something and sells it. It's a broad term.

I do NOT own an xbox or any gaming system for that matter. Just spent about a grand on an AR57 and do not have the desire, time, or funds to play video games.

99.9% was trying to get a point across--you know as well as I do that most legally bought guns are never used in a crime.

Have you read that the cartels are ripping each other apart with FULL AUTO weapons? Like those are coming from the US? BS. Only 17% of the guns in Mexico have been traced to the US. You need to get your facts straight.

Please read:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/200...s%252Flatest+(FOXNews.com+-+Latest+Headlines)

Now, http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL2834893820070828

90 out of 100 people here are armed

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_hom_wit_fir-crime-gun-violence-homicides-firearms
40% of homicides committed with firearms

Our murder rate is: 0.042802 per 1,000 people
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

You do the math--my number was pretty damn close.

 

[KYS]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: silverphoenix</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
ummm no. you cant fully silence any firearm. Thats hollywood bullshit right there! see you bought into it as well. They will make noise no matter what. </div></div>

Are you kidding me? I'm talking about suppressed with subsonic ammunition as being fully suppressed only--I have shot .22 subsonics with a can and you can barely hear anything. If you want to get into technicalities with decibels, then you have some credence there, but I'm talking about perception.
</div></div>

you said "completely suppressed or silenced" there is NO SUCH THING!
Your going to quote Fox News as a reliable source of information ?! hahahahaha ok good one.

regardless, they are still getting all types of weapons from the US. I didnt give a number, its a known fact that they are indeed getting them from our country, illegally.

I think you are the one that needs to do some reading before you come in here with these wild statements.

 

[m1garand30064]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

I find this article (and source) to be much better than cnn, foxnews, etc.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/counting-mexicos-guns/

I'd love to see the 1986 law repealed personally. It made no sense to stop something that had caused zero problems since the 1934 law. How many crimes were committed by legally owned machine guns from 1934-1986? It had to be very few.

However, this will never happen. There is too much misinformation out there for it to happen.

I guess I'll have to save my claims and shell out 10K for an M16.

 

[KYS]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

Id love to see the 1986 law abolished as well. would love to have a FA HK lower to go with my HK upper......

 

[birddog762]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

it would never float with the current cast of clowns in office. the 200 dollars was about 10k by todays standard,we are getting a bargin on that. and yup, some places you can buy them over the counter( finland being one).

 

[WoofersInc]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So again, why isn't anyone making a move to get the tax repealed?</div></div>

Patience. We lost most of our gun rights a small step at a time. We will have to get them back a small step at a time.

It started with the Heller decision and will continue with the MacDonald case going before the Supreme Courrt soon.

You can't rush these things. The anti's were screaming about blood in the streets after Heller. Guess what? latest reports are that crime has decreased in D.C. If we take back small pieces at a time without there being the shoot-outs and blood in the streets like the anti's claim, the general public will support that.
If you try for a home run right off the bat you may lose more than you would gain. Going after the NFA items up front would likely hurt us as gun owners. The public would listen to the anti's about "machine guns in the hands of everybody". But, after the anti's have been proven wrong time and time again, then we have some standing.

 

[silverphoenix]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WoofersInc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So again, why isn't anyone making a move to get the tax repealed?</div></div>

Patience. We lost most of our gun rights a small step at a time. We will have to get them back a small step at a time.

It started with the Heller decision and will continue with the MacDonald case going before the Supreme Courrt soon.

You can't rush these things. The anti's were screaming about blood in the streets after Heller. Guess what? latest reports are that crime has decreased in D.C. If we take back small pieces at a time without there being the shoot-outs and blood in the streets like the anti's claim, the general public will support that.
If you try for a home run right off the bat you may lose more than you would gain. Going after the NFA items up front would likely hurt us as gun owners. The public would listen to the anti's about "machine guns in the hands of everybody". But, after the anti's have been proven wrong time and time again, then we have some standing.</div></div>

Yeah, you're right. It's just one of those things--it's frustrating not to be able to fix things right away.

Anyways, on my earlier statement that 99.9% of guns aren't used in murders--let me correct myself with a more exact number and show how the stricter the gun control, the more crime there is:

Approximately 270,000,000 firearms in the USA (ESTIMATED--there may be as many as 350,000,000)
Approximately 308,754,041 people in USA
874.48 guns per 1000 people
39.56% of homicides committed with firearms
14.8071 out of 874.48 guns used in murders
Murder rate: 0.042802 per 1000

Therefore, approximately 1.6932 % of firearms in the USA are used in murders if the 270 million is correct.
Therefore ~ 98.307% of guns are used lawfully. In other words, approximately 265,428,360 in the US are not used in murders.
Sources:
http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL2834893820070828
(they say 90 out of 100, but by my calculations, I came up with 87 out of 100)
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_hom_wit_fir-crime-gun-violence-homicides-firearms
(This does not reflect crime rates total in these countries).
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

The UK is #6 for rape victims (0.9% of population) and Australia is #5 (1% of population), while the United States is 13 and tied with Denmark (0.4% of population)
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_vic-crime-rape-victims

The UK is tied with Australia #3 for robbery victims (1.2% of population), while the United States is #6 tied with Finland (0.6% of population)
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rob_vic-crime-robbery-victims

Australia is #1 for total crime victims (30.1% of population), with the UK being #3 (26.4% of total population) and the US being #15 (21.1% of population)
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_vic-crime-total-victims

DISCLAIMER: The numbers are all rough estimates--not everyone participates in the census and there is NO possible way to keep track of how many firearms are actually in the United States. Also, there are many other factors that affect crime rates such as poverty level, population diversity, and culture. Correlation does not equal causation, however, this Definitely does show that "less guns and stricter gun laws" does NOT in any way lead to a safer society. I did all the math personally, so please check it if you wish.

 

[Trigg]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: silverphoenix</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
again, you are wrong. There are plenty of suppressors out there that are less then 350 for a 22lr. My good buddies first suppressor ever was a Lauer (sp?) Predator 22 and he got it from our local dealer for $225.00

If a criminal wants a suppressor, they can get them. Weather they steal them or have them made. not every dirty gun is bought off "the black market"

How long have you been off the xbox?

Where do you get your factual information for 99.99% of guns are bought legally? Have you read about all the firearms being bought here ILLEGALLY then taken to Mexico so the cartels can shoot each other all to pieces?

</div></div>

Ok, so I stand corrected on the prices.

Yes criminals will get ahold of anything they want--by "black market" you know what I mean--one person steals something and sells it. It's a broad term.

I do NOT own an xbox or any gaming system for that matter. Just spent about a grand on an AR57 and do not have the desire, time, or funds to play video games.

99.9% was trying to get a point across--you know as well as I do that most legally bought guns are never used in a crime.

Have you read that the cartels are ripping each other apart with FULL AUTO weapons? Like those are coming from the US? BS. Only 17% of the guns in Mexico have been traced to the US. You need to get your facts straight.

Please read:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/200...s%252Flatest+(FOXNews.com+-+Latest+Headlines)

Now, http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL2834893820070828

<span style="font-weight: bold">90 out of 100 people here are armed</span>

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_hom_wit_fir-crime-gun-violence-homicides-firearms
40% of homicides committed with firearms

Our murder rate is: 0.042802 per 1,000 people
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

You do the math--my number was pretty damn close.</div></div>

90 guns per 100 people, does not mean 90 out of 100 people are armed.

 

[Renegade]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lone_soldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> but when was the last time you saw someone break the law with a legally purchased and owned suppressor</div></div>

last time I was at a public range.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lone_soldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and when was the last time you saw someone break the law with a legal firearm</div></div>

school shooter in CO two days ago?

Fort Hood?

Almost all gun crime is committed with a legal firearm. Maybe not always a lawfully owned firearm, but the firearm itself is legal.

 

[Renegade]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There were over a million form 1's, 2's, 3's and 4's last year alone.

200 bucks each for a million forms? 200 million dollars in revenue... they're not going to get rid of that. </div></div>

1) No tax on form 2,3.
2) $5 tax on some Form 4.
3) Only 85,000 total forms processed, not a million.

 

[Renegade]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">firearms are a right. not sbr's, machinegun's, suppressors etc.
</div></div>

The Supreme Court says otherwise.

 

[deersniper]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

regardless, they are still getting all types of weapons from the US. I didnt give a number, its a known fact that they are indeed getting them from our country, illegally.

I think you are the one that needs to do some reading before you come in here with these wild statements. </div></div>

You need to do some more reading.

They are getting a very small percentage of their guns from civilians in the US. They get a lot of guns from corrupt Mexican military/police. The US gave the mil/police alot of these guns.

They can ship thousands of tons of drugs illegaly. Do you really think they need to jump through hoops to get a few semi-autos from the US? Are they getting grenades, grenade launchers, m16s, ak47s, and M2 .50s from US gun shows?

 

[deersniper]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">firearms are a right. not sbr's, machinegun's, suppressors etc.

Be happy they aren't totally illegal </div></div>

Are you really from Texas?

The 2nd amendment isn't about hunting. It is there so the people are able to overthrow a tyrannical government. Our founding fathers had all military arms. We have a right to sbr's, mg's, belt feds, cannon, etc. Just because the right is not currently recognized doesn't mean it isn't there.

The people who made this country would be ashamed of us.

-dan

 

[Arevalosocom]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

I have yet to find a gun board that isn't filled with "pro-gun" anti-gunners.....

Brady Inc isn't even needed anymore, "pro-gun" owners have no problem imposing gun control on thier own.

 

[silverphoenix]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
90 guns per 100 people, does not mean 90 out of 100 people are armed.</div></div>
No, absolutely not. It still doesn't affect the numbers though, as the point was how many out of those 270 or so million are used in crimes.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

regardless, they are still getting all types of weapons from the US. I didnt give a number, its a known fact that they are indeed getting them from our country, illegally.

I think you are the one that needs to do some reading before you come in here with these wild statements. </div></div>

You need to do some more reading.

They are getting a very small percentage of their guns from civilians in the US. They get a lot of guns from corrupt Mexican military/police. The US gave the mil/police alot of these guns.

They can ship thousands of tons of drugs illegaly. Do you really think they need to jump through hoops to get a few semi-autos from the US? Are they getting grenades, grenade launchers, m16s, ak47s, and M2 .50s from US gun shows?</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Arevalosocom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have yet to find a gun board that isn't filled with "pro-gun" anti-gunners.....

Brady Inc isn't even needed anymore, "pro-gun" owners have no problem imposing gun control on thier own.</div></div>

1+ 1+

 

[orkan]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Arevalosocom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have yet to find a gun board that isn't filled with "pro-gun" anti-gunners.....

Brady Inc isn't even needed anymore, "pro-gun" owners have no problem imposing gun control on thier own. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 2nd amendment isn't about hunting. It is there so the people are able to overthrow a tyrannical government. Our founding fathers had all military arms. We have a right to sbr's, mg's, belt feds, cannon, etc. Just because the right is not currently recognized doesn't mean it isn't there.

The people who made this country would be ashamed of us.

-dan </div></div>

Yes indeed. Its pretty disgusting. The problem is, people don't understand what it means to be free.

 

[JGBigfish308]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

You may not wish for that if you saw the crack head that was trying to buy one at the gun show last weekend...

 

[300zero]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: silverphoenix</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would definitely like to be able to walk into a store and buy a suppressor without it being a NFA item and having to pay the $200, jump through fiery hoops, and get it transferred through a class III. It should be classified as any gun part or any upper. I wouldn't mind it having to be an FFL transferred item, but all the paperwork and tax is ridiculous.

99.9% of guns pretty much are never used in a crime. About 95% or so of those 0.01% are bought illegally. Pretty much all of those are cheap--not kimbers or colts--more like high points, cheap revolvers, cheap shotguns, etc.





<span style="color: #3366FF">Suppressors are pretty expensive--even one for a .22 is at least $400 at the very cheapest I've seen. </span>Most are $800 and above for higher calibers--this alone will keep them out of criminal hands. The criminals who have enough money to buy these have enough money to get them through the black market anyways.

So again, why isn't anyone making a move to get the tax repealed? </div></div>

again, you are wrong. There are plenty of suppressors out there that are less then 350 for a 22lr. My good buddies first suppressor ever was a Lauer (sp?) Predator 22 and he got it from our local dealer for $225.00

If a criminal wants a suppressor, they can get them. Weather they steal them or have them made. not every dirty gun is bought off "the black market"

How long have you been off the xbox?

Where do you get your factual information for 99.99% of guns are bought legally? Have you read about all the firearms being bought here ILLEGALLY then taken to Mexico so the cartels can shoot each other all to pieces?

</div></div>

Just to clarify, it was $350 for the lauer. But that does include the Tax stamp.

 

[orkan]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

People are so afraid.

I'm not afraid of the crack head, nor what he's able to buy. I'd venture to say hardly anyone else on here is either.

Its illegal to kill people. The end.

It was rocks, then it was spears, then it was swords, and now its guns. Ray guns next? Those without respect for life will continue to kill regardless of what weapon is available. Law has nothing to do with it.

Having a suppressor for a gun that you already have, is hardly any more risk than already exists. Its just a mechanism for the government to track us, and tax us. Why else would you need to do it EVERY time, instead of just buy a permit/license to own as many as you want.

The masses want to be safe, but they don't realize that its only an illusion of safety. Notice the shootings are usually in "gun safe zones." Reverse the situation and force all teachers to carry and qualify with a gun. How many of those shootings happened with suppressors?

 

[bsp212]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JGBigfish308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You may not wish for that if you saw the crack head that was trying to buy one at the gun show last weekend...</div></div>

How do you know he was a crack head and not just someone with poor hygiene? Trust me, at the last few gun shows I attended, bathing was not a requirement for admission.

 

[rlepage]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

Montana is trying, the case is currently on its way to court.

The Montana Firearm Freedom Act specifically names suppressors as firearm accessories exempt from fed control.

Many other states are trying as well. FirearmsFreedomAct

 

[orkan]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

I am praying that gets approved.

If it works for montana, it will set precedent.

 

[rlepage]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

Utah Gov. Gary Herbert signed their Firearms Freedom Act today.

it is nearly a clone of Montana's law.

Salt Lake Tribune Article

 

[rlepage]

Re: Why not repeal the NFA tax on suppressors?

The Idaho Firearms Freedom Act has been introduced as H0589 by Rep. Dick Harwood