I have yet to see one in person, but from what I have seen in video's and online it comes with magpul stocks. CTR and Zhukov, both of which are LOP adjustable and you can add different cheek risers as well.
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Why Not to Buy An AK ...
- Thread starter Veer_G
- Start date
I leary of US built aks. None have been reliable up to this point. They have been trying to come in cheap though. The m10x model if built correctly might fit the bill. I will check it out. Thanks.
You and me both... That is why it has my interest. They are not making an american copy of an AK but a completely new firearm, borrowing ideas from Kalashnikov, Sig and others.
I have had a couple US made AKs come through my hands, a BHI and an IO. Neither were on par with the imports IMO. I bought the AKbuilder press and rivet jigs and just built my own with all Bulgy parts. AKs are pretty easy to build, much easier than an HK but harder than an AR. I got out of the HKs in favor of ARs in 308, 223 and 9mm. I do miss my reverse stretch MP5 clone though, heavy as it was it ran like a sewing machine.
Most of the Yugo imports I've seen are good to go. Have had several Romanian WASRs, RPKs that were good rifles. I've never owned any of the C39 milled receiver rifles. If I were gonna go milled receiver I would go with a SAM7 or get an 80%/100% Tortort receiver and build with a parts kit, if you have the tools and confidence to do the bit of milling, the 80% Tortort milled receiver are good to go. I have one tucked away to build an RPK7 build on.
If shit ever gets rough here in the US the AK makes a good rifle for neighbors/family/friends who may need something but aren't particularly gun savvy.
If you can find a used Yugo underfolder that's the way I would go. The O-Paps have the bulged RPK trunnion and are built quite a bit better from the N-Paps. But you'll have to probably dig around to find one new. Right now Century has the AK63 Hungarian underfolders out there in stock for around $650+/-. The WASR underfolders are goin north of $700+ nowadays. The WASRs are decent rifles, at least the ones I've owned in the past were. But that was back when they were $400 new. Finish wont be the prettiest but itll run nonetheless.
If you have the coin you can search for a used Bulgarian underfolder. Arsenal makes them from time to time but they are usually north of $1200. They are the highest quality on fit and finish.
If you have the coin you can search for a used Bulgarian underfolder. Arsenal makes them from time to time but they are usually north of $1200. They are the highest quality on fit and finish.
I've had an M10x (current model with the Zhokov sock) for a while now. It's well-made and reliable with decent factory support (for now at least but since they are a small manufacturer, who knows if they'll be around years from now).
The rifle is modular with the serialized part being the tenon to which the barrel is attached. Everything else is user serviceable and spares are available on their website.
The rifle is a bit on the weighty side though.
Yeah, right? I remember the late 90's where you could get Romanian 74's for $219. $219! Others were barely $300. Then in the 80's you could get very nice import AK's, underfolders, etc., for pretty cheap too. The steel mags were like $10 (during the ban!) and bakelite I think I paid $5 each. Oh, shit like that was cheap! Ammo was cheap enough to just stop and get a big ass brick and use it all up at the range. Well, I sold 'em all in the army. Two 75rd. drums and a MAK91 (long "NM" barrel) the Romanian 74, and the one I regret the most? A no-shit Arsenal SLR95! Had a nice Steyr barrel. Milled receiver. It was smooth and it was accurate, well built and finished. That thing is worth a fortune today. I think I paid $450 for it? It was the best AK made for a long time. Then I had others I sold too. And I played with SKS's for a bit before that but dropped 'em pretty quick. I have none of that Commie shit today. Wish I did.
But I dropped it all pretty much the day I got my first AR. It was a Dothan AL SWAT trade to a pawn shop and I got it for $650. A2 model. Fell in love the first time I shot it. Never looked back.
I don't really plan on any new semi's other than finishing up the lowers I have, Form2'ing a couple. But if I could get my hands on an SBR'd Bofors AK5, I'd get it. That's gotta be the best AK, period. Wouldn't mind having one in 5.56. Or whatever. There's some other's I'd like, want, but I'll just have to want.
There was a documentary about Iraq or some shit a long time ago I watched and it showed a company in Britain that custom made AK's for the military, for their SF units. They looked like normal AK's, but were built much, much better by a gunsmith. Wanna say it was Lancaster? That'd be a nice one to own too.
I saw some Israeli and some Yugo AK's at Bullseye in Tacoma. They have a big lot of various semi auto rifles now. Damn near everything you can get. I'd like one, but I can't really afford or justify it. I need glass and loading stuff. Still need to finish those lowers, still need a .338 bolt gun.
So I guess I'm stuck with a shitload of AR's. I'd like a Tavor, I have the dual laser tri power optic that fits it. I just don't really need it as much as glass and components.
Couple questions. What kind of accuracy are you getting out of it? Do you like it enough that you would buy it again?
I’ve only ever fed it junk (Wolf or Red Army) so can't attest to its mechanical accuracy. They do claim to be MOA with higher quality ammo. It is good enough to consistently hit a 6"x6" piece of steel at 100 (standing, off-hand).
I would buy again if no-one comes out with a side-charging 7.62x39 AR that takes AK mags. If something like that ever shows up, I'd take that over an M10x for the better ergos and aftermarket support.
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I'm with you with one slight exception, it would need to be piston operated. I had high hopes for both Sig and IMI but after looking at them in person I could not push past the use of plastic and poor optic mounting solutions.
Never caught the AK bug. I had decided to buy one the week before the Clinton AWB. We had a show the next week and they weren't worth the mark up. I do have two SKS's that have went from $100 to what ever they sell for now.
Not sold on PSA AR's yet. I have one that has issues that I have to get in touch with them about.
Not sold on PSA AR's yet. I have one that has issues that I have to get in touch with them about.
Or....he finally won the battle of the bulge he has been fighting for years. Good on him.
AKs are great. Do what they were designed to do and are fun to shoot. I have an Arsenal SAM7, an IWI Galil and a cheapo PSA, because I can and because America.
A real gun guy needs no other reasons.
A real gun guy needs no other reasons.
I will find out soon enough 
. I guess my point was that if I want a cheap rifle that's going to need parts replaced before being 100%, it might as well be a cheap rifle, and one that's got the aftermarket for it.
I have a friend that was convinced he wanted an AK... "They're cheap, reliable, etc. etc.." then started watching Rob Ski videos among others and to make a long story short I watched him go from wanting brand to model to model to brand about 5 times saying "Guys on the forums say these are good shit for the money", and luckily each time he was too poor to put money down because a month or two later he'd say "Yeeeaaahhh, so I guess X-brand AK actually has a lot of issues with soft bolts, bad gas pistons, furniture, receiver heat treat......"
Anyway, he finally ended up with an Arsenal .223 which is honestly a blast to shoot (If I ever end up with one it will be 5.45 or 5.56), but he also paid for it... and now is going through the pains of trying to securely mount a red dot that's not 4" over the bore with a beard-weld on the stock.
I guess I can understand it for the sake of having one, and I could really understand it when they were $200-400. But the current market is mehhh... My perception at least is that a lot of what is on the market has heat treat issues that requires hard to find or expensive european original replacement bolts, trunions, etc... Also seen lots of wandering head space examples and poorly clocked barrels/fsb... Maybe just my perception.
. I guess my point was that if I want a cheap rifle that's going to need parts replaced before being 100%, it might as well be a cheap rifle, and one that's got the aftermarket for it.I have a friend that was convinced he wanted an AK... "They're cheap, reliable, etc. etc.." then started watching Rob Ski videos among others and to make a long story short I watched him go from wanting brand to model to model to brand about 5 times saying "Guys on the forums say these are good shit for the money", and luckily each time he was too poor to put money down because a month or two later he'd say "Yeeeaaahhh, so I guess X-brand AK actually has a lot of issues with soft bolts, bad gas pistons, furniture, receiver heat treat......"
Anyway, he finally ended up with an Arsenal .223 which is honestly a blast to shoot (If I ever end up with one it will be 5.45 or 5.56), but he also paid for it... and now is going through the pains of trying to securely mount a red dot that's not 4" over the bore with a beard-weld on the stock.
I guess I can understand it for the sake of having one, and I could really understand it when they were $200-400. But the current market is mehhh... My perception at least is that a lot of what is on the market has heat treat issues that requires hard to find or expensive european original replacement bolts, trunions, etc... Also seen lots of wandering head space examples and poorly clocked barrels/fsb... Maybe just my perception.
I put my money into a genuine former Com-Bloc factory-made AK because they are the best at it, hands down. Anyone who says otherwise proves they don't know scheisse about the AK. I bought an American made AK for the heck of it and for fits and giggles, and the Galil because I think it is a cool extension of the AK platform.
About two years ago my local store had a preban Norinco, or other ChiCom builder, brand new with the accessories still in the bag.
It looked like a prop from a VN War movie. Laminated wood, orange magazine.....
I think he was asking $900.
I wish I had of bought it just because.
It looked like a prop from a VN War movie. Laminated wood, orange magazine.....
I think he was asking $900.
I wish I had of bought it just because.
Every collection should have a clean Pre-Ban in it. Pick you'r country of preference.
Yep that's a nice one^^^ Ric. I luckily bought my parts kits back when they were $120. Now your looking at $600+, crazy.
Arsenal definitely turns out the best new AKs today but the price is just too rich for me for an AK. Kalashnikov USA makes some nice builds too.
Arsenal definitely turns out the best new AKs today but the price is just too rich for me for an AK. Kalashnikov USA makes some nice builds too.
Everything you said can be avoided as long as a true imported Ak is purchased. Everything else is unfortunately crap. Import laws makes anything decent tough to get. Sanctions make others impossible to get. Imports are almost non existent at this point. This is why the Ak market is inflated. Supply and demand.I will find out soon enough
I have a friend that was convinced he wanted an AK... "They're cheap, reliable, etc. etc.." then started watching Rob Ski videos among others and to make a long story short I watched him go from wanting brand to model to model to brand about 5 times saying "Guys on the forums say these are good shit for the money", and luckily each time he was too poor to put money down because a month or two later he'd say "Yeeeaaahhh, so I guess X-brand AK actually has a lot of issues with soft bolts, bad gas pistons, furniture, receiver heat treat......"
Anyway, he finally ended up with an Arsenal .223 which is honestly a blast to shoot (If I ever end up with one it will be 5.45 or 5.56), but he also paid for it... and now is going through the pains of trying to securely mount a red dot that's not 4" over the bore with a beard-weld on the stock.
I guess I can understand it for the sake of having one, and I could really understand it when they were $200-400. But the current market is mehhh... My perception at least is that a lot of what is on the market has heat treat issues that requires hard to find or expensive european original replacement bolts, trunions, etc... Also seen lots of wandering head space examples and poorly clocked barrels/fsb... Maybe just my perception.
In reality AKs should cost more than AR rifles simply because of the man hours involved in making one. Ars are made by machines. Aks are made by craftsmans. The reason they are so cheap world wide is the fact they are subsidized by governments.
As far as mounting red dots go, buy RS Regulate or Midwest Industries side mount for either 30mm or micro red dots and you have a low mount that co witnesses with the iron sights of the AK. They have a complete return to zero when installed and reinstalled on the rifle. It’s that simple.
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I have several aks but to be honost i am not a fan of pistol grips on bolt guns, carbines, or shotguns either.
I think someone already mentioned it, but the Finnish RK62 and RK95 are apparently a level or 2 above any of the other AKs/AK variants. A RK95 in 5.45 or 5.56 would be one of my dream AK's. I wonder how the Finns compares to the the original Galil and the new Galil ACE rifles? Anyone here gotta Galil ACE to chime in on what they think of it, or for that matter thoughts/experience with the original Galil?
My other dream AK(if I had the coin to spare) would be something close to this:
Its been too modified and is too far away from an AK to be considered in the debate IMO but if it did count, I'd reckon the SIG SG550 series would be king of the hill..?
My other dream AK(if I had the coin to spare) would be something close to this:
Its been too modified and is too far away from an AK to be considered in the debate IMO but if it did count, I'd reckon the SIG SG550 series would be king of the hill..?
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In my honest opinion, and good semi auto rifle collector should have 1 AK... use to own a nice milled Arsenal and wish I didn’t sell it. So I hooked up with a PSA AK47 and couldn’t be happier for $499.... not that accurate but crazy cheap to shoot and just fun for plinking.
Is that how the story reads now?
Last time someone told it to me, AK's were "cheap, easy to produce with no skilled labor in the 3rd world" etc... Maybe manufacturing costs are different when the state owns you.
It is what it is. I'm just not convinced any AK available today is worth it. Should have hopped on the bandwagon when the imports were cheap. I don't especially like the platform so it's hard to get excited about a $1000-1500 AK. I'd sooner go M1a or even one of the HMG STG's if they ever get past the vaporware stage. About the only AK I can get jazzed up about would be a side-folding 223 or 5.45 krink.
Watch a video of aks being built. There is a lot of manual labor involved. My point was pay those workers USA wages and see what they would cost then. They are cheap to buy worldwide using cheap labor to build and pricing subsidized by communist governments.Is that how the story reads now?
Last time someone told it to me, AK's were "cheap, easy to produce with no skilled labor in the 3rd world" etc... Maybe manufacturing costs are different when the state owns you.
It is what it is. I'm just not convinced any AK available today is worth it. Should have hopped on the bandwagon when the imports were cheap. I don't especially like the platform so it's hard to get excited about a $1000-1500 AK. I'd sooner go M1a or even one of the HMG STG's if they ever get past the vaporware stage. About the only AK I can get jazzed up about would be a side-folding 223 or 5.45 krink.
I am an Ak man and definitely don’t think they are worth the premium today. It’s supply and demand with imports which is what I explained in my previous post. There is a limited number here and they are priced accordingly. ARs are a dime a dozen here in the States.
Cool to have options though. The Pre Ban AK's have gone nutty in value, and are a bit scarce. Fun to have shooters like the Arsenal and a few others available for the immediate consumption of cheap commie ammo.
I have a Romanian G that was a new, unfired kit. Numbers matching with the original barrel included.
i dont have any AR's last one i owned was my high power service rifle, since i cant shoot service rifle any more for quite a while i have no use for an AR.
i own 5 AK's 2 in 7.62X39 1 in 5.45X39 and 1 in 5.56X45 NATO, all a quite accurate and very reliable. the 5.56 NATO one takes AR mags as well and has an adjustable gas system, so in a SHTF senerio i have the best of both worlds. oh and something to be said about the AR vs AK you AR guys are always shooting very highly tuned AR's and shooting them against run of the ill AK's, doesnt hardly seem to be a fair review that way. the guys at copper custom armament are tuning up saiga .308 win rifles and their shooting 1/2 MOA with what i would say wasnt much in the way of tuning.
SB
i own 5 AK's 2 in 7.62X39 1 in 5.45X39 and 1 in 5.56X45 NATO, all a quite accurate and very reliable. the 5.56 NATO one takes AR mags as well and has an adjustable gas system, so in a SHTF senerio i have the best of both worlds. oh and something to be said about the AR vs AK you AR guys are always shooting very highly tuned AR's and shooting them against run of the ill AK's, doesnt hardly seem to be a fair review that way. the guys at copper custom armament are tuning up saiga .308 win rifles and their shooting 1/2 MOA with what i would say wasnt much in the way of tuning.
SB
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You kinda make my point for me. The aftermarket doesn't cater to getting an AK even in the same realm and the design of the AK doesn't encourage much tinkering.
When I was shooting AK's more often I couldn't find anything for parts, no easily swapped affordable adjustable gas blocks, not much for recoil springs, no aggressive muzzle brakes, no triggers that could hold a candle to a decent AR trigger, obviously no high quality barrels I could swap at home, no lightweight bolt carriers/pistons.
If you can show me an AK that shoots as flat as my AR, with a 2lb trigger, an integral optics rail and that consistently gets 1.5 moa with blaster ammo I'll buy one tomorrow. I really do like AK's but the lack of LEGO like parts compatibility will never let them take a bite out of the AR market.
You are right about the ak design that it doesnt encourage tinkering. This alone is a huge reliability boost. I cAn see the benefit of switching and changing crap for a casual shooter who only wants to shoot holes close together. For the rifle type in its primary role around the world, all the “upgrades” just aren’t necessary and some cause reliability issues. What is good on the range isnt always good on the battlefield. Of course this isnt how we use our rifles.
Aks have plenty of all the parts you mentioned except for the AR triggers. Aks dont have match grade triggers and dont need them. I would like an ak trigger that has a crisp break like a tuned ar milspec trigger.
Shooting stock ak74 with steel cased ammo i can consistantly hit a full size silhouette at 500 yds. I can do that consistantly at 400 yds with an ak47. This is much much futher than an avg engagement if you want to look at it that way.
Im mot saying aks are superior by any means but they are as viable today as they were in the 50’s. If I were going to arm untrained freedom fighters to help me take back America, they would have aks.
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where have you guys been????? there are six or seven match adjustable triggers for AK's now, not just replacement parts but real adjustable ones. all the adjustable stocks and mloc or key loc forearms and gas tube covers you can imagine.
Ask an Afghan which rifle they would rather have, the answer most of the time will be "Kalashinkov; if he gets too hot shooting, you can dip his barrel in the river and keep shooting"
Must be a proverb there.
ARs are definitely cheaper to manufacture with modern techniques, easier to do so in a distributed fashion, and will only become more so as additive manufacturing matures.
As true as it is, it is interesting to think of AKs as "made by craftsmen" considering how they when introduced were considered crude and inexpensive when compared to contemporary infantry rifles.
Why you want rail for Kalashnikov? Is not good enough as procured from Izhevsk Mechanical Works? You think needs improvement? Then maybe you find job with army of Russia! You have drinks with Mikhail Kalashnikov, trade story of many weapons designed and details of school for engineering!
Or maybe you not do this. Probably is because you never design weapon in whole life. You look at fine Russian rifle, think it need crazy shit stick on all sides of weapon. You have disease of American capitalist, change thing that is fine for no reason except to look different from comrade. You put cheap flashlight of Chinese slave factory on one side, you put bad scope of American middle west on other side, you put front pistol grip on bottom so you are like American movie guy John Rambo. Maybe you put sex dildo on top to fuck yourself in asshole for making shameful travesty of rifle of Mikhail Kalashnikov, no?
Rifle is fine. You fuck it, it only get heavy and you still no hit largest side of barn. Go to firing range, practice with many magazine of cartridge. Then you not need dumb shit put on side of rifle.
Or maybe you not do this. Probably is because you never design weapon in whole life. You look at fine Russian rifle, think it need crazy shit stick on all sides of weapon. You have disease of American capitalist, change thing that is fine for no reason except to look different from comrade. You put cheap flashlight of Chinese slave factory on one side, you put bad scope of American middle west on other side, you put front pistol grip on bottom so you are like American movie guy John Rambo. Maybe you put sex dildo on top to fuck yourself in asshole for making shameful travesty of rifle of Mikhail Kalashnikov, no?
Rifle is fine. You fuck it, it only get heavy and you still no hit largest side of barn. Go to firing range, practice with many magazine of cartridge. Then you not need dumb shit put on side of rifle.
