Why so many Proof barrels everywhere?

blue_ridge

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Dec 17, 2009
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I’m just curious why I see way more Proof barrels for sale than anything else? Nothing against them, I’m sure they’re very good, but a few years ago you would’ve seen more Bartlein, Krieger, Brux, Benchmark, Hart, etc. These days I see more Proof barrels than all those others combined.
 
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If they are prefits that you're referring too it's likely due to them being offered by proof or one of their resellers and often at a lower price than the other custom makers, most of which do not offer prefit service.

People purchase them as spares or a project and then loose interest.
 
If they are prefits that you're referring too it's likely due to them being offered by proof or one of their resellers and often at a lower price than the other custom makers, most of which do not offer prefit service.

People purchase them as spares or a project and then loose interest.
I see lots of Proof barrels for sale, many are prefit, but also many on complete rifles for sale. I also see almost as many SS as CF barrels for sale. Just a blitz Krieg of Proof barrels. They must really have ramped up production. I wonder if the other barrel makers have seen a decrease.
 
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I see lots of Proof barrels for sale, many are prefit, but also many on complete rifles for sale. I also see almost as many SS as CF barrels for sale. Just a blitz Krieg of Proof barrels. They must really have ramped up production. I wonder if the other barrel makers have seen a decrease.
No decrease from the others imo, they’ve been running at a fairly fixed capacity for decades now, and cant keep up. Proof has made such a splash in the market, its forced the others to offer carbon wrapped barrels. Never in a million years did I think Bartlein would do that, but here we are.
 
They’re cheap. A prefit. when in stock, is under $500 to my door and there within a week. They offer prefits for every big platform in a range of popular calibers with sensible twists. If I want a Bartlein I have to hope the smith has or will be getting the blank, then fit me into the schedule which is 8-12 weeks typically from when they have the blank….but I recall seeing shouldered prefit wait times in the 7-10 month range multiple times over the years now. And then it’s a $700-900 barrel or more if the fancy Bartlein steel.
 
Proof's market focus is on prefits currently. Its such a large company that they have the capacity to keep cost down. PRS shooters can burn through barrels fairly quickly. I can buy two barrels for the price of one custom chambered. Not saying custom barrels are bad but prefits are cost effective and yield the same level of accuracy in most cases. Prefit $500 vs $900 custom. I am on my fourth Proof prefit and all of them have shot .5 MOA or better with my custom loads.
 
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I see lots of Proof barrels for sale, many are prefit, but also many on complete rifles for sale. I also see almost as many SS as CF barrels for sale. Just a blitz Krieg of Proof barrels. They must really have ramped up production. I wonder if the other barrel makers have seen a decrease.
In conversing with a few friends that are in the business of rifle smithing and a couple folks from Bartlein and Rock Creek that I shoot with at local matches, demand has never been higher. Jacob's podcast over on Rifles Only Accuracy Podcast (podbean) interviewed Frank from Bartlein barrels on the last episode, well worth a listen for their production rate and other interesting nuggets.
 
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The only negative is Proof doesn't offer SS Prefits in LA chamberings, otherwise, they would capture more of the market. If wanting a SS LA Proof chambering you'd have to order a blank then have smith cut chamber thread/muzzle and then you are right there at the same cost as Bartlein, HawkHill, Krieger, in which case I'd rather have the latter.

Never saw the draw to CF barrels as if wanting to save weight just use a lighter profile steel barrel at a lower price point. Especially true in a hunting situation where you are only taking 1-3 shots at a single target at a given time.

TM6
 
The only negative is Proof doesn't offer SS Prefits in LA chamberings, otherwise, they would capture more of the market. If wanting a SS LA Proof chambering you'd have to order a blank then have smith cut chamber thread/muzzle and then you are right there at the same cost as Bartlein, HawkHill, Krieger, in which case I'd rather have the latter.

Never saw the draw to CF barrels as if wanting to save weight just use a lighter profile steel barrel at a lower price point. Especially true in a hunting situation where you are only taking 1-3 shots at a single target at a given time.

TM6

A lot of events nowadays have higher round counts than hunting, but weight is still a big concern (Mammoth/SAC, NRL Hunter, run and gun team challenges). If I'm going to pack a barrel 60 miles and shoot 9 stages/100 rounds, i want more than a pencil but less weight. The carbon wrapped barrels seem to fit that void nicely.
 
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They're hella popular because you get an amazing cut rifled barrel for significantly less than most prefits thats most likely sitting on a shelf at a vendor somewhere instead of a long ass lead time from a gunsmith who may or may not even stick to that lead time. Couple that with 90% of the members on here having rifle ADHD and you've got your answer.
 
The only negative is Proof doesn't offer SS Prefits in LA chamberings, otherwise, they would capture more of the market. If wanting a SS LA Proof chambering you'd have to order a blank then have smith cut chamber thread/muzzle and then you are right there at the same cost as Bartlein, HawkHill, Krieger, in which case I'd rather have the latter.

Never saw the draw to CF barrels as if wanting to save weight just use a lighter profile steel barrel at a lower price point. Especially true in a hunting situation where you are only taking 1-3 shots at a single target at a given time.

TM6
not sure which action you're looking for, but PROOF does offer long action prefits in SS and CF atleast for accuracy international AXMC/AXSR.
 
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A lot of events nowadays have higher round counts than hunting, but weight is still a big concern (Mammoth/SAC, NRL Hunter, run and gun team challenges). If I'm going to pack a barrel 60 miles and shoot 9 stages/100 rounds, i want more than a pencil but less weight. The carbon wrapped barrels seem to fit that void nicely.

In that situation, a CF barrel is ideal. For me, not so much.

TM6
 
Never saw the draw to CF barrels as if wanting to save weight just use a lighter profile steel barrel at a lower price point. Especially true in a hunting situation where you are only taking 1-3 shots at a single target at a given time.

TM6
Most of us aren't heathens shooting/hunting unsuppressed.
 
Heathen!

Nah, just old with old school thoughts. Heavy loud boomsticks let me know that I'm still breathing and help me to maintain some form of muscle stamina, as not to enter the current trend toward male atrophied masculinity! :p:D;)
I bet you think recoil makes you tougher . Muscle stamina, that's a sweet story bro ,.:poop:
 
The only negative is Proof doesn't offer SS Prefits in LA chamberings, otherwise, they would capture more of the market. If wanting a SS LA Proof chambering you'd have to order a blank then have smith cut chamber thread/muzzle and then you are right there at the same cost as Bartlein, HawkHill, Krieger, in which case I'd rather have the latter.

Never saw the draw to CF barrels as if wanting to save weight just use a lighter profile steel barrel at a lower price point. Especially true in a hunting situation where you are only taking 1-3 shots at a single target at a given time.

TM6

Just get an Osprey prefit from @bohem Josh at PVA then. He can do long actions no problem and the Osprey barrels are excellent.
 
Under 500$
Sure... shipping is $185

Honestly, custom costs more. The reason PROOF is selling prefits for $500 is because they're making runs of the same thing and you don't get any input. Like that preschool rhyme "you get what you get and you don't throw a fit"

In this case you can have it Burger King style, it just costs more.
 
Heck I have 3 proof prefit 6.5 steelies for my Bighorn. One with 3200, another with 600 and another in the box. No need to look elsewhere for me and doubt I will when my last one goes..
 
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Heck I have 3 proof prefit 6.5 steelies for my Bighorn. One with 3200, another with 600 and another in the box. No need to look elsewhere for me and doubt I will when my last one goes..
And let me just say that @8pointer is shooting a full sized ipsc at 1 mile and a 36x36 at 2000 yards with his 6.5 manbun. Not just once or twice or accidentally either, but regularly. Also not using solids or A-tips, just conventional bulk 140g Match bullets over StaBall. That with just SS Proof prefits.

Oh yeah, in Florida too. Not in some Mile high rarified atmosphere.

Edited to correct a couple things.
 
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Sure... shipping is $185

Honestly, custom costs more. The reason PROOF is selling prefits for $500 is because they're making runs of the same thing and you don't get any input. Like that preschool rhyme "you get what you get and you don't throw a fit"

In this case you can have it Burger King style, it just costs more.
I understand that, and your prices are very competitive for what you offer. I’ve paid far more than that for a barrel before.

My post was simply pointing out that I’m surprised they don’t offer a couple long action steel prefit options as I think there is a market for it, especially when they are already chambering barrels in those cartridges
 
I understand that, and your prices are very competitive for what you offer. I’ve paid far more than that for a barrel before.

My post was simply pointing out that I’m surprised they don’t offer a couple long action steel prefit options as I think there is a market for it, especially when they are already chambering barrels in those cartridges
I’m pretty sure that the answer is already there for you. While you may think that the market is demanding these calibers regularly, the proof (if you will) is in the sales numbers. If they have enough call for and sales of a certain caliber, then it makes sense for them to make a run of that caliber in enough volume to make the lower price viable.

The fact that they don’t, in and of itself, tells you that the demand is not nearly as great as you perceive it to be. At least not enough so that they can make a lower cost Volume run.

I happen to want a prefit in .260, but nobody is offering them up at low prices either. Now if I was wanting 6.5 Creedmoor or say 6BR, then I’m in like Flynn.
 
I’m pretty sure that the answer is already there for you. While you may think that the market is demanding these calibers regularly, the proof (if you will) is in the sales numbers. If they have enough call for and sales of a certain caliber, then it makes sense for them to make a run of that caliber in enough volume to make the lower price viable.

The fact that they don’t, in and of itself, tells you that the demand is not nearly as great as you perceive it to be. At least not enough so that they can make a lower cost Volume run.

I happen to want a prefit in .260, but nobody is offering them up at low prices either. Now if I was wanting 6.5 Creedmoor or say 6BR, then I’m in like Flynn.
This line of thinking would lead to zero expansion of any offerings. Just because they aren’t doing it yet doesn’t mean it won’t be done and there isn’t demand.

Sometimes people just haven’t gotten to it yet, and their current demand is taking up their time.

We were never going to see carbon wrapped Bart barrels either, many other examples.
 
This line of thinking would lead to zero expansion of any offerings. Just because they aren’t doing it yet doesn’t mean it won’t be done and there isn’t demand.

Sometimes people just haven’t gotten to it yet, and their current demand is taking up their time.

We were never going to see carbon wrapped Bart barrels either, many other examples.
Yes, and your point is? If current demand is taking their time, what is that current demand for? Trust me that if the current demand for a certain long action caliber was greater than that for the currently hot SA calibers, you would see them making a run of that LA caliber.

Why did Bartlein start making carbon wrapped barrels? Because there was a new market that was hot and they wanted to be in on it. The tech had become mature and the demand was there.

All I did was give you your answer. To the question that you asked. Yet somehow, it’s my fault that the product you want right now doesn’t have the demand to be lower priced, yet, and possibly never.

You, as a consumer who wants something, are asking the question as you should be. That’s one way that demand is created. However, volume is volume, and greater volume using automated equipment and amortized set up and tooling costs is how manufacturers can offer lower prices.

Can I refer you to a good economics 101 class?
 
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I’m not saying it’s higher than 6creed Jesus. I’m saying I figured we would have it by now.

Maybe we won’t, but them not offering it yet is not evidence it won’t sell when/if they do. If they had it and discontinued it that’s different.

People act like every company makes the best profitability decision the moment it arises 100% of the time and it’s not even remotely true.


Why are you being catty in your edit?
 
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I understand that, and your prices are very competitive for what you offer. I’ve paid far more than that for a barrel before.

My post was simply pointing out that I’m surprised they don’t offer a couple long action steel prefit options as I think there is a market for it, especially when they are already chambering barrels in those cartridges

I would think they would also for hunters but they must not see the need. That's why it's really not too bad going to a Osprey from PVA for $689 with muzzle threaded or $650 without in a magnum long action over the $509 for a Proof for those short action offerings but a long action magnum isn't. So in the end another $180 for what you want isn't a bad deal.
 
I understand that, and your prices are very competitive for what you offer. I’ve paid far more than that for a barrel before.

My post was simply pointing out that I’m surprised they don’t offer a couple long action steel prefit options as I think there is a market for it, especially when they are already chambering barrels in those cartridges
Look at what they've gone to for steel prefits. Everything is competition contour. Now look at most competition guns and see how many are shooting long action cartridges.
 
This line of thinking would lead to zero expansion of any offerings. Just because they aren’t doing it yet doesn’t mean it won’t be done and there isn’t demand.

Sometimes people just haven’t gotten to it yet, and their current demand is taking up their time.

We were never going to see carbon wrapped Bart barrels either, many other examples.
It's also a question of cashflow. They don't make customs so I'm sure they have some system to see how things are going if they're going to add SKU's. When they do so it's going to be across a bunch of shouldered tenons. Their website has almost as many shouldered options on it as I make. So make 5 units for each action, then make it in 3-4 different lengths because their carbon wrap approach can't be cut back as needed.

Let's say that they do it for 20 actions to keep the math simple, and 5 units per length and 4 lengths.

Just to add 300PRC to the mix that's 400 barrels to put on the shelf. Even a place like PROOF where steel comes in and finished barrels go out there's cost associated with it. Multiply by 400 barrels and it's well into 6 figures with the cost of steel, electricity, cutting tools, supplies, labor, etc. That's just 1 caliber. Let's add 300PRC, 7PRC, and 6GT onto that mix all in a single year, oh and do it in steel and carbon. Now it's 2000+ barrels to produce and run out onto the website for sale. If you need to add another steel contour in there that's 400 more barrels for every contour for every caliber. It's financially impossible to do so.

And each SKU only has 5 pcs available for sale, when the 5 available TL3-LA 300PRC 22" Carbon barrels are gone you now have to make more for any more revenue to come from that SKU. So we've committed over a million dollars to something that is probably going to get 20-25% of the inventory sold immediately and the other 75-80% sitting for at least 90 days if not all year long.

So, shops like mine which offer some production and a lot of custom options fill that void.

So let's play out the custom offer that I have for $685
Take $500 off that to compete with the PROOF stocked piece.
In the extra $185 we have to jump into the machine that contours and make you exactly 1 (oh and if I screw up, I now make another for free). We then push it over to the muzzle threads and we put that on there (again, any screw ups make another). And lastly we swap in a 300 PRC rougher and finisher, touch them off and cut the tenon and chamber.

Without having any other order to put it against and amortize the setup changes together we're talking about an additional hour to make sure everything is right to make exactly 1 without screwing up anything. That's on 2 different machines that bill out at $150/hr or they're not covering the cost of the floorspace that they take up. Ripping into a machine to make something also means putting back whatever was in it before jumping that 1off job in there.

From the guy sitting in the business planning chair I can readily see why Proof isn't knocking down the walls to make a cell for another caliber, nor do they do customs, and why I charge $185 more to make that custom.

However, I'm also not deaf to people wanting something in the market. So here's a counterproposal. If you put together and organize a group buy of at least 10 barrels I will make it happen. I will do a SH group buy on 9tw and 10tw 300PRC shouldered prefits on my Ospreys for $500 plus shipping and CC cost. That includes 5/8-24 muzzle threads and finish lengths from 20-26" in 1" increments. Any steel barrel contour on my website.

You organize the order, keep the spreadsheet, handle everything short of payment. People can pay us directly with a CC+3% so you don't have to do that. Then we can do a 10pc MOQ for 300PRC shouldered prefits. Lead time for 10-15pc is 5wk.


I happen to want a prefit in .260, but nobody is offering them up at low prices either.

Nailed it. The 260 has gone from ubiquitous to niche in the 6.5 market in 5 years. I'd be happy to make you one, I would be willing to bet lunch that nobody else orders a 260 in the next 30 days.
 
Look at what they've gone to for steel prefits. Everything is competition contour. Now look at most competition guns and see how many are shooting long action cartridges.
I surely don’t think they would be more popular than short action prefits.

I’d be interested in it compared to how many 7 rem mag carbons they are moving.

Fwiw They do chamber 300prc in carbon. Just not steel at the moment.

This is getting blown out of proportion
 
I surely don’t think they would be more popular than short action prefits.

I’d be interested in it compared to how many 7 rem mag carbons they are moving.

Fwiw They do chamber 300prc in carbon. Just not steel at the moment.

This is getting blown out of proportion
My point is, they have scaled down their steel barrel options significantly to crank them out. There were different profiles, there were different lengths, there were different twists. Now they are all competition contour and long.

How many people want a competition contour 300 PRC, 7MM MAG, and so on. Those are typically "hunting" cartridges and that's why they are offered in lighter weight carbon barrels.
Just write it off as, Proof's steel barrels are comp barrels and 99% of people aren't using LA calibers for comps.
 
My point is, they have scaled down their steel barrel options significantly to crank them out. There were different profiles, there were different lengths, there were different twists. Now they are all competition contour and long.

How many people want a competition contour 300 PRC, 7MM MAG, and so on. Those are typically "hunting" cartridges
300prc kind of is sure and kind of isn’t a little bit. It does have a larger following in shooting sports than 7RM, both in its design and in its use in practice.

My point was never a statement that demand for 300prc steels exists and proof is messing up. Maybe that was inferred but I never said it.

I said Im surprised it’s not offered and that a company not offering something is not definitive proof demand doesn’t exist.

There are some oddities in proofs prefit lineup, maybe that’s through intense market calculations every second of every day. I don’t know. Maybe the demand for comp contour steel 300 norma AI prefits is 10 times more than comp contour 300prc prefits and that’s why their offerings are what they are. I can tell you I’m surprised you can’t buy a prc but you can a norma or a win mag though. Again, surprised that’s all.
 
If I want a caliber that PROOF makes, I go PROOF. If not, I go PVA. However, I really really want a 25 Creedmoor. But the ease of just going with 6/6.5 CM from PROOF is too great.
 
I surely don’t think they would be more popular than short action prefits.

I’d be interested in it compared to how many 7 rem mag carbons they are moving.

Fwiw They do chamber 300prc in carbon. Just not steel at the moment.

This is getting blown out of proportion
Just so you know, I had no intent to attack or otherwise denegrate you with my comments, even if I did seem a little snarky in my second reply.

Look what your question actually did though. It started a conversation that has @bohem willing to make a run of 300prc at your price. I think that is awesome and above grade.

As to the .260, I totally get it and realized that it had its glory days that are now gone. It doesn’t make it obsolete, just no longer popular. I’m no longer popular either, so we get along just fine. 😎
 
not sure which action you're looking for, but PROOF does offer long action prefits in SS and CF atleast for accuracy international AXMC/AXSR.

While that is true I was recently looking for a .300NM for the AXMC and nobody has one in stock. The popularity of the SA prefits that they sell seems to be directly proportionate to fact that they're cheap and available all through the kung flu plandemic.
 
While that is true I was recently looking for a .300NM for the AXMC and nobody has one in stock. The popularity of the SA prefits that they sell seems to be directly proportionate to fact that they're cheap and available all through the kung flu plandemic.
That is exactly how I came to get my first Proof pre-fit. At that time it was literally the only thing I could click 'buy now' and have in hand even at the most insane backorder levels we experienced. Thanks @Front Range Precision

Has anyone here ever done any velo work on longer 6.5 barrels with max charge of whatever they shoot? I have to say I was not looking for a 26" barrel when I picked my Proof up, but weight and portability are not an issue for me so no matter. Pleasantly surprised at the performance, but it got me wondering what if any powder I'm burning north of the muzzle stil or if 26" was picked b/c that is a full burn for a 6.5 at max charge? Thanks for any knowledge nuggets on that have been wondering how 26" was picked.