I see lots and lots of Grendel uppers, customs and AA factory builds, with 20"+ barrels using a mid-length gas system. Why is that? Is there something about the Grendel that requires/prefers a lot more gas vs a 223 Rem?
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Why so much gas for a Grendel?
- Thread starter Ratbert
- Start date
Re: Why so much gas for a Grendel?
Nope, would be much better configuration with a rifle length gas system on 20" barrel.
Several possible reasons for the mid-length tube being used.
16 to 18" barrel, mid-length gas system for 223 is popular configuration. Mfg'er uses mid-length tube to simplify inventory.
Pick your mfg'ering cost cutting method of choice, LEAN, just in time, etc.. End up with "better bottom line" in financial spreadsheet but not necessarily a better product.
Best guess as to why you are seeing so many mid-length gas systems on 20"+ barreled 6.5 Grendel uppers is due to a financial decision, not an engineering decision. 6.5 Grendel with 20+" barrel would be much better off with extended length gas system.
Nope, would be much better configuration with a rifle length gas system on 20" barrel.
Several possible reasons for the mid-length tube being used.
16 to 18" barrel, mid-length gas system for 223 is popular configuration. Mfg'er uses mid-length tube to simplify inventory.
Pick your mfg'ering cost cutting method of choice, LEAN, just in time, etc.. End up with "better bottom line" in financial spreadsheet but not necessarily a better product.
Best guess as to why you are seeing so many mid-length gas systems on 20"+ barreled 6.5 Grendel uppers is due to a financial decision, not an engineering decision. 6.5 Grendel with 20+" barrel would be much better off with extended length gas system.
Re: Why so much gas for a Grendel?
I guess what surprises me then is the number (or at least %) of apparently custom builds using Satern barrels & midlength gas systems. I mean, if you're going to wait around 2 years for them to ship your barrel, why not go ahead and make it rifle length? Of course, maybe you just never see the rifle-length ones for sale
I guess what surprises me then is the number (or at least %) of apparently custom builds using Satern barrels & midlength gas systems. I mean, if you're going to wait around 2 years for them to ship your barrel, why not go ahead and make it rifle length? Of course, maybe you just never see the rifle-length ones for sale
Re: Why so much gas for a Grendel?
CSS who makes a 6.5css (Basically same as 6.5G just a little different neck dimension) has rifle length gas systems. A lot of guys (myself included)also use an adjustable gas system as a lot of 6.5G guns are over-gassed.
CSS who makes a 6.5css (Basically same as 6.5G just a little different neck dimension) has rifle length gas systems. A lot of guys (myself included)also use an adjustable gas system as a lot of 6.5G guns are over-gassed.
Re: Why so much gas for a Grendel?
Friend of mine got a Satern 24" barrel but with gas port moved out 2".
I'm with you, don't understand why anybody would go with a mid-length gas system on a barrel longer than 18".
You might be on to something....rifle length or extended length gas system barrels/uppers in 6.5 G do not end up for sale. Doubt very seriously that my friend's upper will have a for sale tag on it anytime soon.
Friend of mine got a Satern 24" barrel but with gas port moved out 2".
I'm with you, don't understand why anybody would go with a mid-length gas system on a barrel longer than 18".
You might be on to something....rifle length or extended length gas system barrels/uppers in 6.5 G do not end up for sale. Doubt very seriously that my friend's upper will have a for sale tag on it anytime soon.
Re: Why so much gas for a Grendel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess what surprises me then is the number (or at least %) of apparently custom builds using Satern barrels & midlength gas systems. I mean, if you're going to wait around 2 years for them to ship your barrel, why not go ahead and make it rifle length? Of course, maybe you just never see the rifle-length ones for sale
</div></div>
All the AA GDMR builds with the 19.5" barrel or the 24" barrel both have Rifle length gas systems. You could see it clear in the pics of the GDMR because it uses a 12.0" Larue handguard and the gas block is very visible sticking out past the rail. Thats why some builds use the 13.2" Larue rail to cover up most of the gas block.
I have a 18" Grendel build with a mid-gas and it works great but yeah, I would use a rifle-gas on anything 20" and up.
nothing against AA but I am buuilding a AA GDMR clone with the exact parts AA uses and can build it for <span style="font-weight: bold">less than half </span>the price they sell them for ($3,600.00!!) and thats <span style="text-decoration: underline">without</span> the scope, bi-pod, bi-pod mount and scope mount. I think they want $2,500.00 for just the upper. Waaaaay high priced if you ask me.
<span style="text-decoration: underline">Build your own.</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess what surprises me then is the number (or at least %) of apparently custom builds using Satern barrels & midlength gas systems. I mean, if you're going to wait around 2 years for them to ship your barrel, why not go ahead and make it rifle length? Of course, maybe you just never see the rifle-length ones for sale
</div></div>
All the AA GDMR builds with the 19.5" barrel or the 24" barrel both have Rifle length gas systems. You could see it clear in the pics of the GDMR because it uses a 12.0" Larue handguard and the gas block is very visible sticking out past the rail. Thats why some builds use the 13.2" Larue rail to cover up most of the gas block.
I have a 18" Grendel build with a mid-gas and it works great but yeah, I would use a rifle-gas on anything 20" and up.
nothing against AA but I am buuilding a AA GDMR clone with the exact parts AA uses and can build it for <span style="font-weight: bold">less than half </span>the price they sell them for ($3,600.00!!) and thats <span style="text-decoration: underline">without</span> the scope, bi-pod, bi-pod mount and scope mount. I think they want $2,500.00 for just the upper. Waaaaay high priced if you ask me.
<span style="text-decoration: underline">Build your own.</span>
Re: Why so much gas for a Grendel?
From what I've read, it looks like it has more freebore and older versions had a 0.005" tighter neck. Also CSS doesn't use AA's bolt.
From what I've read, it looks like it has more freebore and older versions had a 0.005" tighter neck. Also CSS doesn't use AA's bolt.
Re: Why so much gas for a Grendel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scotts556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the 6.5 CSS just a Grendel with a different name??
Scott </div></div>
basically yes.. its also the same as the new .264LBC. they all shoot the same ammo.. the 6.5 grendel that is.. confused yet?
Here's my 22" Lothar Walther 6.5CSS barreled rifle. I havent shot it yet though..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scotts556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the 6.5 CSS just a Grendel with a different name??
Scott </div></div>
basically yes.. its also the same as the new .264LBC. they all shoot the same ammo.. the 6.5 grendel that is.. confused yet?
Here's my 22" Lothar Walther 6.5CSS barreled rifle. I havent shot it yet though..
Re: Why so much gas for a Grendel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I've read, it looks like it has more freebore and older versions had a 0.005" tighter neck. Also CSS doesn't use AA's bolt.
</div></div>
So is more freebore good or bad? For my Grendel build I plan on shooting the 107 grain SMK and lapua sceners.
Scott
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I've read, it looks like it has more freebore and older versions had a 0.005" tighter neck. Also CSS doesn't use AA's bolt.
</div></div>
So is more freebore good or bad? For my Grendel build I plan on shooting the 107 grain SMK and lapua sceners.
Scott
Re: Why so much gas for a Grendel?
FYI rainer has the best deal on Mags for a grendel build. I just miss out on a barrel for my grendel! I plan on using a +2 if I have to order one. Save the brass....it's expensive!
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1201
FYI rainer has the best deal on Mags for a grendel build. I just miss out on a barrel for my grendel! I plan on using a +2 if I have to order one. Save the brass....it's expensive!
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1201
Re: Why so much gas for a Grendel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
All the AA GDMR builds with the 19.5" barrel or the 24" barrel both have Rifle length gas systems.
</div></div>
And are still a bit over gassed IMO. I'm getting ready to go to an adjustable gas block or possibly a Switchblock configuration. If I put a can on my AA upper now it would be even more exaggerated.
Ratbert,
Keep in mind the AA original design was to meet or surpass Mil specs and I'm pretty sure Bill generally over gassed slightly to ensure the spent brass got the hell out of the weapon under adverse conditions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
All the AA GDMR builds with the 19.5" barrel or the 24" barrel both have Rifle length gas systems.
</div></div>
And are still a bit over gassed IMO. I'm getting ready to go to an adjustable gas block or possibly a Switchblock configuration. If I put a can on my AA upper now it would be even more exaggerated.
Ratbert,
Keep in mind the AA original design was to meet or surpass Mil specs and I'm pretty sure Bill generally over gassed slightly to ensure the spent brass got the hell out of the weapon under adverse conditions.
Re: Why so much gas for a Grendel?
Couldn't you just put on an adjustable gas block and reduce the gas that way if it was needed?
Couldn't you just put on an adjustable gas block and reduce the gas that way if it was needed?
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