(just a plinker, no marksman I) I had a Savage in .223 with a regular ol' scope. Used it for target shooting at 100 yards, and groundhogs from 25 to 130 yards. I enjoyed shooting tight little groups on steel and loved the soft trigger. Many a buzzard appreciated it too. My cousin requested it so it has a new owner.
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Why the hatred for savage?
- Thread starter Newlongrange
- Start date
Some of Savage's reputation is largely a holdover from the first half of last century when one of their big markets was Australia (back when Aussies were free people). Even then the government was interfering and had a rule that imported rifles had to pass a 6' drop test without firing... took a 24# trigger to pass that gorilla.
Bolt lift. Easy fix. Kit and polishing. No it's not the same as a Deviant, Big Horn etc.
Feed problem? Never had one.
Barrels copper up. Iosso & chuck a rod in the Dewalt. Their barrels are cheap, under $300.00 delv.
Want a light trigger. Buy one. They're cheap enough.
Stock sucks? Folding MTD chassis.
Use blue lock tight for the new rail and rings. Throw a scope on it and enjoy.
Ours is sub MOA with every barrel for it still. All were .5 MOA at some point.
Resale value? Who cares. Don't sell guns, its a bad policy.
We love our switch barrel Savage. So does everybody that shoots it.
If you want a .25 MOA rifle, save up while you practice with the Savage
Be happy, grateful, and enjoy heck out of your $100.00 Savage.
Feed problem? Never had one.
Barrels copper up. Iosso & chuck a rod in the Dewalt. Their barrels are cheap, under $300.00 delv.
Want a light trigger. Buy one. They're cheap enough.
Stock sucks? Folding MTD chassis.
Use blue lock tight for the new rail and rings. Throw a scope on it and enjoy.
Ours is sub MOA with every barrel for it still. All were .5 MOA at some point.
Resale value? Who cares. Don't sell guns, its a bad policy.
We love our switch barrel Savage. So does everybody that shoots it.
If you want a .25 MOA rifle, save up while you practice with the Savage
Be happy, grateful, and enjoy heck out of your $100.00 Savage.
When I was looking at shotguns, I picked up a Savage that said it was made in China. Yeah.... no
There are a lot of rifle snobs on this site. Truth be told, some of them may wish they had a Savage instead of their J.C. Higgins.....keyboard rifle Ninjas. Savages typically shoot WAY above their price......especially at what you have into that base rifle.
One has to add a boatload of money to get those last incremental benefits. Set your Savage up, and enjoy the experiences with your 13yo........there's the high value ROI in that whole arrangement. You have the rifle gratis. Calculate your ROI based comparatively on that and you'll blow everyone on here away. I don't believe you mentioned caliber, model, or application. But, whatever the scenario, invest in a really good scope and mounts for your specific application.....spend til you gasp and squeak. Buy once; cry once; happy and proud ever more. One can't hit what one can't see and dial accurately/repeatedly for. Should you ever "out grow" the Savage.......probably not, you'll just expand the herd, pass it through the family as an heirloom with a story.....the scope and other accessories can be moved to other rifles as desired remaining a great investment. Few of us started at the summit of rifledom. You are in great company. Enjoy. Have fun. Your Savage will serve well while you work on ballistics, position building, recoil management, trigger control, wind reading, etc. Wind separates the trigger pullers from the shooters. Learn to read wind and you'll out shoot most of the bucks up rigs. Shoot in the wind 'til wind becomes your friend. Encourage that young shooter to learn and grow in the sport. When he becomes your age, that Savage will have memories and experiences that he won't take anything for that rifle, regardless of what high dollar rigs he may obtain. Please, proudly post pics of the finished rig and you and your 13yo enjoying it together.
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I have 2 Savages, my 2011 Model 12 LRP and a Model 11 Rifle for my daughters to hunt deer with, both in 6.5 CM.
I don't even have a scope on the LRP right now, I don't shoot that rifle anymore. I looked at a chassis, I looked at bottom metal, I looked at getting a loggerhead adjustable cheek riser, etc. I cycled the bolt on a Tikka at PRE in 2018 and my decision was made to not spend money on my Savages at that point and I never looked back.
There's a reason everyone here points towards a Tikka for a starter rifle. They work well at a reasonable price point.
I don't even have a scope on the LRP right now, I don't shoot that rifle anymore. I looked at a chassis, I looked at bottom metal, I looked at getting a loggerhead adjustable cheek riser, etc. I cycled the bolt on a Tikka at PRE in 2018 and my decision was made to not spend money on my Savages at that point and I never looked back.
There's a reason everyone here points towards a Tikka for a starter rifle. They work well at a reasonable price point.
When I see somebody shooting a savage I immediately assume there idiots and also poor, then I move on with my day
Until they out shoot you and you slink away lol. Used to be my greatest pleasure until I started shooting nice rifles and got beat with the dude with Savage. It happens and again it’s the Indian not the bow that counts. You can get a Savage to shoot and it’s awesome but shooting an awesome rifle well is better. We all start somewhere and it’s not a bad way too start. It still pisses my off / makes me proud when my son shoots better than me with with the Savage and I’m shooting the gap. Might just be I suck lol.When I see somebody shooting a savage I immediately assume there idiots and also poor, then I move on with my day
A poor craftsman blames his tools.
I have 5 Savage rifles. 30-06, 300WSM(favorite), 300WM F Class, 300WM long-range(no idea why they call it that but it shoots just fine.), and a 338WM that works just fine on elk. I have enjoyed learning about reloading and load development, mostly with the 300WM and WSM, and I always enjoy any chance to go shooting. I have had the chance to try many different scopes and have learned that there is a common law of business that prohibits you from paying a little and getting a lot. There will be a custom rifle in my near future and it won't be a Savage strictly due to the fact that custom builders generally use different actions. Still, I'll always be grateful for everything those "budget rifles" have taught me.
I have 5 Savage rifles. 30-06, 300WSM(favorite), 300WM F Class, 300WM long-range(no idea why they call it that but it shoots just fine.), and a 338WM that works just fine on elk. I have enjoyed learning about reloading and load development, mostly with the 300WM and WSM, and I always enjoy any chance to go shooting. I have had the chance to try many different scopes and have learned that there is a common law of business that prohibits you from paying a little and getting a lot. There will be a custom rifle in my near future and it won't be a Savage strictly due to the fact that custom builders generally use different actions. Still, I'll always be grateful for everything those "budget rifles" have taught me.
They have a few things going for them, but I don't trust them to run reliably, and there's a lot of sub-par aspects that can't reasonably/easily/neatly be fixed.
Square range, benchrest, plinking, teaching kids how to shoot, low stress slow fire where you don't need it to function (extract, eject, feed), sure...
Any serious competition shooting, field condtions, duty use, or where reliability counts at all, no thank you. You can spend a few more $$ and get something like a Tikka that doesn't need core features replaced or rebuilt to be worth a damn. It's painful watching Savage shooters struggle with equipment in PRS/NRL matches. Not always... but often enough that I've taken note of it.
I'm with Frank... Peace of mind in rock-solid equipment is worth some extra money up front.
Square range, benchrest, plinking, teaching kids how to shoot, low stress slow fire where you don't need it to function (extract, eject, feed), sure...
Any serious competition shooting, field condtions, duty use, or where reliability counts at all, no thank you. You can spend a few more $$ and get something like a Tikka that doesn't need core features replaced or rebuilt to be worth a damn. It's painful watching Savage shooters struggle with equipment in PRS/NRL matches. Not always... but often enough that I've taken note of it.
I'm with Frank... Peace of mind in rock-solid equipment is worth some extra money up front.
Back in the 90s I had a Savage 112BVSS chambered in 22-250. Didn't do a single modification to it and it shot <0.5 MOA with factory ammo. I recall the action wasn't as smooth as other bolt guns, but I've never had a need for fast racking...so feed and ejection didn't pose a real problem for me. My issue was with the mass. I'm now 60 and walk with a cane. Coincidence???
To the OP, If you don't like how it feels you could consider selling it and buying a HOWA barreled action from Brownell's. From that point you could dress it up however you like. Great triggers/shooters.
To the OP, If you don't like how it feels you could consider selling it and buying a HOWA barreled action from Brownell's. From that point you could dress it up however you like. Great triggers/shooters.
Everyone is missing the most important part of this post. You got a 13 year old that wants to go shoot with you.
You got a budget. Go shoot the Savage and have fun together. It will be fine. Start learning. We all started somewhere.
If you wait even a year or two to save for a better rifle, that is a year you and he missed shooting together. You got the rest of your life to build or buy the best. But there isn’t enough money in the world to buy back a year you missed with your kid shooting together.
In 20 years you will remember this conversation and that old Savage.
You got a budget. Go shoot the Savage and have fun together. It will be fine. Start learning. We all started somewhere.
If you wait even a year or two to save for a better rifle, that is a year you and he missed shooting together. You got the rest of your life to build or buy the best. But there isn’t enough money in the world to buy back a year you missed with your kid shooting together.
In 20 years you will remember this conversation and that old Savage.
Great observation. And Very true. Go shoot, you will have help.
I have 3 Savage rifles, and they are among the most accurate I own. Never heard about the "hatred" for them. Never had bolt lift issues either. To me they're the Toyota Camry of rifles. The run good, look good doing it, and do what they're supposed to do at a fraction of the cost. I have far more expensive rifles. But I don't have any that are more accurate. That say's something right there.
Least I’m not considering going with the Thompson Center LRR
Although I own a Pennsylvania Match rifle that I love.
One thing that bugs me about the savage is the screws keep falling out on the chassis. Not even fired it yet and it’s happened several times. Simple fix( not going to locktite them) but still annoying.
I appreciate all the comments, well not the shortbus ones but the rest are.
Although I own a Pennsylvania Match rifle that I love.One thing that bugs me about the savage is the screws keep falling out on the chassis. Not even fired it yet and it’s happened several times. Simple fix( not going to locktite them) but still annoying.
I appreciate all the comments, well not the shortbus ones but the rest are.
The good news about people thinking Savage is trash is the resale value. I found a Savage 30-06 in great shape for $50 at a pawn shop, simply because the desk guy couldn't remove the bolt so he thought it was broken......he said "those savage rifles never work right".
Slid the bolt out when he handed me the receipt.
Slid the bolt out when he handed me the receipt.
When I see a rifle having malfunctions at a match, 95% of the time it's a Savage. Couple that with the headache I've had with my son's Savage 260 (have replaced everything but the action and barrel) having failure to fires, and the many trips to gunsmiths, I'm done with Savage.
I have no hatred for savage, in fact I recommended one to my daughter for her first rifle. It was the best rifle that fit her budget.
Just go in with your eyes open. At our local matches I have yet to see a stock savage shoot 80 rounds without having a stage where feeding/extraction issues didn’t cost the shooter 90% of the points. “Improved” savages are not much better. I have had guys shoot well quit the sport after 2 matches because they can’t get their gun to run. They say the “but it never does this normally” because normally they are slow firing under no pressure. But when the have a 12 target, 120 second stage, laying in the New Mexico dust the action lets them down.
I will also say I agree with @Matagorda308 if that’s what you have to shoot go shoot it. Just recognize that it may eventually hold you back/frustrate you in competition. it shoulda good but often times they unreliable under pressure.
Edited because my spelling sucks.
Just go in with your eyes open. At our local matches I have yet to see a stock savage shoot 80 rounds without having a stage where feeding/extraction issues didn’t cost the shooter 90% of the points. “Improved” savages are not much better. I have had guys shoot well quit the sport after 2 matches because they can’t get their gun to run. They say the “but it never does this normally” because normally they are slow firing under no pressure. But when the have a 12 target, 120 second stage, laying in the New Mexico dust the action lets them down.
I will also say I agree with @Matagorda308 if that’s what you have to shoot go shoot it. Just recognize that it may eventually hold you back/frustrate you in competition. it shoulda good but often times they unreliable under pressure.
Edited because my spelling sucks.
Apparently, that shotgun is.... money is important to even gun manufacturers, save a penny any way they can
I have a Savage 110 tactical in 308. It's not exactly stock. MDT LSS-XL, IBI carbon fiber barrel, titanium bolt handle, aftermarket recoil lug and barrel nut, riflebasix trigger. It has always shot well and I didn't have any of the ejection issues I hear about. Feeding was not great, but the chassis really helped with that. By all accounts it's a good rifle and I shoot it lots.
I would not recommend putting a bunch of extra money into one like I did. There are better platforms to sink money into. However, go ahead and enjoy the one you have.
The biggest gripe I have about the Savage is bolt lift. I put a spring gauge on it and it was 1lb heavier than my Tikka, and the Tikka is a 70 degree vs the Savage 90. The Savage has thousands of rounds on it to smooth everything out so there is probably more of a difference in brand new rifles. It can upset sight picture and slow you down, which is probably why you don't see them in some types of competition. Not really an issue for learning to shoot with your son, though.
I would not recommend putting a bunch of extra money into one like I did. There are better platforms to sink money into. However, go ahead and enjoy the one you have.
The biggest gripe I have about the Savage is bolt lift. I put a spring gauge on it and it was 1lb heavier than my Tikka, and the Tikka is a 70 degree vs the Savage 90. The Savage has thousands of rounds on it to smooth everything out so there is probably more of a difference in brand new rifles. It can upset sight picture and slow you down, which is probably why you don't see them in some types of competition. Not really an issue for learning to shoot with your son, though.
Accuracy means nothing without reliability though. As in most cases, you get what you pay for.An AIAT is the most expensive rifle I've owned so far but I bought a MUCH less expensive Savage .223 and put a cheap scope on it for varmint shooting. it took a few rounds to break-in the barrel but at a hundred yards it's every bit as accurate as my AIAT and completely stock!
Savage owners are awful Defensive ...
Might have to start posting images when we see them fall apart. Don't wanna go all IOR on you, but the reality on the ground is easy to see.
Interesting side note, on the Everyday Sniper Podcast we mentioned the trouble we had them with and I got a PM from the "Precision Rifle Guy" at Savage, and he agreed with all our points, of which many were the catalyst for the new rifle that was supposed to fix the problems. And it has, the new PRS ones do okay, I found it a stand up admission, then he left Savage. LOL
Not including my Rifles Only Days, or the training I did independently before reconnecting with Marc, just the Marc and Frank Classes currently taking place. We have seen over 700 students, we keep a God Book in fact, we can tell you the name of every student who crossed our path. Savages by far go down more than any other rifle out there. That is based off 700 people, not 2, 3, or even 10... numbers don't lie. Sure we get a standout here and there, and will comment, gee that one made it through, good job, but the first day one arrives we start planning on what to do if or when it goes down.
We carry spare rifles, spare scopes, spare bipods, and plenty of tools. that is what experience has taught us.
Might have to start posting images when we see them fall apart. Don't wanna go all IOR on you, but the reality on the ground is easy to see.
Interesting side note, on the Everyday Sniper Podcast we mentioned the trouble we had them with and I got a PM from the "Precision Rifle Guy" at Savage, and he agreed with all our points, of which many were the catalyst for the new rifle that was supposed to fix the problems. And it has, the new PRS ones do okay, I found it a stand up admission, then he left Savage. LOL
Not including my Rifles Only Days, or the training I did independently before reconnecting with Marc, just the Marc and Frank Classes currently taking place. We have seen over 700 students, we keep a God Book in fact, we can tell you the name of every student who crossed our path. Savages by far go down more than any other rifle out there. That is based off 700 people, not 2, 3, or even 10... numbers don't lie. Sure we get a standout here and there, and will comment, gee that one made it through, good job, but the first day one arrives we start planning on what to do if or when it goes down.
We carry spare rifles, spare scopes, spare bipods, and plenty of tools. that is what experience has taught us.
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All rifles like all tools have their place on the pyramid. If I'm going to grind or bend a screw driver to do a one off job it's not going to be one from my Snap On set, it's going to be a no name flea market tool. Savages need a good going through and they're better than nothing, most of the time. If you want a low cost rifle to play around with you can learn some stuff on a Savage, that lesson may be to spend more money on something better next time, but most of us have learned that lesson already.
Tikka's are the best out of the box solution, with a lot of upgrade choices, for not a lot of money
The only negative of the Tikka's are the mags, you have to flex the springs a lot, the nose will dip really easy. If you get a Tikka and want to change the stock, be sure to get one that uses AICS mags to save the headache of running over the cartridge
But in terms of accuracy and reliability the Tikka's are awesome, very consistent.
We were pretty big on the RPR for a long while but we found to get the most out of them, you are spending an extra $1200, and as we moved down the road with them, several were showing up poorly assembled. (Friday Gun) If you run across a bad RPR 99% of the time you can take it apart completely and just put it back together super tight and they jump to life.
The newer Competition Savage is pretty solid, you just have to avoid the short Stalker MDT Stock version or any other version with a buffer tuber stock. The Stalker chassis is the worst precision rifle chassis going, and that is not a Savage issue, as much as it's a savage decision to use it. You want the longer competition chassis. The Stalker ones tend to have the out of spec base screws.
The only negative of the Tikka's are the mags, you have to flex the springs a lot, the nose will dip really easy. If you get a Tikka and want to change the stock, be sure to get one that uses AICS mags to save the headache of running over the cartridge
But in terms of accuracy and reliability the Tikka's are awesome, very consistent.
We were pretty big on the RPR for a long while but we found to get the most out of them, you are spending an extra $1200, and as we moved down the road with them, several were showing up poorly assembled. (Friday Gun) If you run across a bad RPR 99% of the time you can take it apart completely and just put it back together super tight and they jump to life.
The newer Competition Savage is pretty solid, you just have to avoid the short Stalker MDT Stock version or any other version with a buffer tuber stock. The Stalker chassis is the worst precision rifle chassis going, and that is not a Savage issue, as much as it's a savage decision to use it. You want the longer competition chassis. The Stalker ones tend to have the out of spec base screws.
Because many of them shoot very well, and its combination of jealousy and anger from those who spent 3-10x as much money for similar performance.
Theres not a lot of objectivity in this hobby.
I'll take @lowlight impartial observations of Savage rifle performance over the 700+ shooters in his recent classes over your clear case of sunk cost bias.
Damn they figured us out, in fact, I hate when those Honda Civics pass my Porsche on the highway, I secretly envy every car that passes me when the owner paid less money. The Civic with the wings are a particular point of jealously, when that H wing goes by, I know I made a poor decision. They just smoke me ... I still have another gear and nothing helps
A fool and is money is soon parted, that is a fact.
That song you got playing is atrocious
Attachments
It was on Sirius, it wasn't picked on purpose, not really a Little Feat Fan,
The cool part is the chip I have, 10,011 ALBUMS in my Dash, entire catalogs of albums for a lot of great bands
That is the real hidden gem ...
The cool part is the chip I have, 10,011 ALBUMS in my Dash, entire catalogs of albums for a lot of great bands
That is the real hidden gem ...
Savage rifles are cheaply made. They shoot, sometimes. Serious riflemen value reliability above all else. The very purpose of a rifle indicates it should not be unreliable.
Add to that the attitude of some Savage users that “my rifle is better than your overpriced AI”and ill will is bound to surface.
Add to that the attitude of some Savage users that “my rifle is better than your overpriced AI”and ill will is bound to surface.
If I lost my rifle in a fire today...
I wouldn't save money by buying a Savage to replace it... That would just add to my operational level of frustration.
You're literally just jealous that you could've gotten 23 used Dodge Darts and old iPods for the same functionality tho lolol
If you squint you can even see the wing on that Honda Civic up the road there.
People are just jealous that their non-Savage rifles don't come with 20 moa scope base screw holes like my buddy's rifle did.
Seriously though, I deal with enough broken shit on a daily basis at work. I'm not about to put myself through that during my limited shooting time too. There are nicer options for a little more, at least up in Canada.
Seriously though, I deal with enough broken shit on a daily basis at work. I'm not about to put myself through that during my limited shooting time too. There are nicer options for a little more, at least up in Canada.
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