Why the hatred for savage?

[supercorndogs]

it help reduce bolt bind when cycling the action. Its an improvement. The redesigned action is more rigid hince better accuracy potential. its also blueprinted. so the barrel face and lockinging lugs being trued also help function and accuracy. I suppose you dont understand the differences and why they matter and that is ok. The differences are huge going from the basic 110 to the more expensive FCP action. There are a lot of differences. Though not the same level of quality as say a $2500 custom action, its kind of the same principle. Tolerances, repeatability, rigidity over the basic action.

The point of my comment was not to argue with the uninformed or the ignorant. I was only pointing out that it is not at all the same action you bought for $219. Ending the misinformation that contributes to more people spreading the same bullshit. There inlies on major fact why savage is hated on. People who do not know a damn thing about what they are talking about repeating some bs they read online somewhere.

You sonund like the ignorant and informed only by the Savage marketing team. You are making a bunch of shit up, and supposing people whom do understand, don't. How did cutting a bigger mag well into an action make it stiffer? What else did they do to make int stiffer? Tighter tolerance does not make things stiffer. You sound like you don't even know what it means. Higher bolt to action clearance doe not make the action stiffer.

Is anyone making shoulder pre-fits for these 110 action held to "tighter tolerance."

2020 FCN Equipment Lists – USA F-Class National Championships Info Site

Apparently there's some F-Class championship shooters that didn't get the memo that they can't use Savage actions and win...

Apparently someone didn't read the entire thread where it has been stated multiple times they work fine, if you have all day to get them to shuck rounds into the chamber.

 

[Nathantc]

You sonund like the ignorant and informed only by the Savage marketing team. You are making a bunch of shit up, and supposing people whom do understand, don't. How did cutting a bigger mag well into an action make it stiffer? What else did they do to make int stiffer? Tighter tolerance does not make things stiffer. You sound like you don't even know what it means. Higher bolt to action clearance doe not make the action stiffer.

look at the photo i posted. If you honestly cannot instantly see the difference and how it is a more rigid design, no amount of explaining will help you.
One last time, i only mentioned the magwell difference to add to the fact its not the same as a standard 110 action.
Clearly you are trying way to hard to prove wrong what clearly validated my entire point on the FACT, the 110 FCP action used on the elite expressions is not at all the same action used on say a walmart 110.

NO where did i ever suggest that making the bolt run smoother by having less slop, or a different magazine cut, would "stiffen" the receiver. Are you that blind with savage hate that you lost your ability to read and reason lol. Take a second long look, since you know so little about savage actions it did not POP for you the first time. They are not just different in some measurements but by entire design.

 

[hafejd30]

I played with my share of savages. From ones that worked great to lots of failure to extract issues. Some trigger issues. Barrels installed by Samson the gorilla that were a fucker to remove due to the bluing process. Barrels that took a round or two to settle in. Some shot excellent and some looked and shot like corrugated drain pipe

I currently have a 300 WM that to this day is the most accurate factory savage I own. And a criterion barreled 260 on a savage that shoots excellent. I came in 12th out of 30+ people at the only 1,000 yard fclass match i shot it in. Looked completely out of place in a mcree chassis and what not but held up in the open division against some high end stuff

That said theres other offerings now. Tikka, Ruger, Howa or the ability to build your own compared to 10+ years ago has come so far there isn’t much reason I see to look at the savages

The only one that even catches my interest now is the new Impulse

We can argue savage all we want. They’re decent shooters and 10 years ago were excellent options with the floating bolt head and barrel nuts. The playing field has changed since then

 

[moosemeat]

look at the photo i posted. If you honestly cannot instantly see the difference and how it is a more rigid design, no amount of explaining will help you.
One last time, i only mentioned the magwell difference to add to the fact its not the same as a standard 110 action.
Clearly you are trying way to hard to prove wrong what clearly validated my entire point on the FACT, the 110 FCP action used on the elite expressions is not at all the same action used on say a walmart 110.

NO where did i ever suggest that making the bolt run smoother by having less slop, or a different magazine cut, would "stiffen" the receiver. Are you that blind with savage hate that you lost your ability to read and reason lol. Take a second long look, since you know so little about savage actions it did not POP for you the first time. They are not just different in some measurements but by entire design.

How? The only way to make it more ridged is to add material or change the material without changing the shape to a huge degree that puts additional material in the plane of movement.
I dont eye fuck savages, so I see no major differences. I have read about enough old BR shooters and sleeving actions to know it takes a lot of material for any meaningful differnce, and how "stiff" the action is actually makes little differnce once a certain level has been reached.
But what do I know?
My friend, who's just a hunter picked up a savage 270 stainless fluted barrel POS 2 weeks ago. $800 rifle. It WILL NOT FEED FROM THE MAG. Brand new. Single shot rifle. But hey, I put 3 single fed rounds into .5 moa when I sighted it in. Now I'm gonna fix his mag so it feeds. Great gun.

 

[Nathantc]

How? The only way to make it more ridged is to add material or change the material without changing the shape to a huge degree that puts additional material in the plane of movement.
I dont eye fuck savages, so I see no major differences. I have read about enough old BR shooters and sleeping actions to know it takes a lot of material for any meaningful differnce, and how "stiff" the action is actually makes little differnce once a certain level has been reached.
But what do I know?
My friend, who's just a hunter picked up a savage 270 stainless fluted barrel POS 2 weeks ago. $800 rifle. It WILL NOT FEED FROM THE MAG. Brand new. Single shot rifle. But hey, I put 3 single fed rounds into .5 moa when I sighted it in. Now I'm gonna fix his mag so it feeds. Great gun.

standard action design in top photo. much like the remington, 2 narrow pieces holding the front of the action to the rear of the action.
bottom photo. Notice the closed top design of the FCP action, so you are correct, adding material to accomplish this.

 

[supercorndogs]

look at the photo i posted. If you honestly cannot instantly see the difference and how it is a more rigid design, no amount of explaining will help you.
One last time, i only mentioned the magwell difference to add to the fact its not the same as a standard 110 action.
Clearly you are trying way to hard to prove wrong what clearly validated my entire point on the FACT, the 110 FCP action used on the elite expressions is not at all the same action used on say a walmart 110.

NO where did i ever suggest that making the bolt run smoother by having less slop, or a different magazine cut, would "stiffen" the receiver. Are you that blind with savage hate that you lost your ability to read and reason lol. Take a second long look, since you know so little about savage actions it did not POP for you the first time. They are not just different in some measurements but by entire design.

These are all the same actions with minor changes to the ejection port/ mag well/ and flutes on the outside of the action. Cutting a different mag well or port in an action doesn't make it a different action. Stiffness has never been the problem or complaint about Savages for people who play timed games. If a Geo Metro is the only thing you have driven around the track, it might seem fast.

Model 110 | Bolt Action Rifles | Savage Arms

The oldest continuously manufactured bolt action rifle in North America is now even better. Big game hunting, varmints, predators, target shooting, and more -- we have a Savage Model 110 for you!

www.savagearms.com

 

[Nathantc]

These are all the same actions with minor changes to the ejection port/ mag well/ and flutes on the outside of the action. Cutting a different mag well or port in an action doesn't make it a different action. Stiffness has never been the problem or complaint about Savages for people who play timed games. If a Geo Metro is the only thing you have driven around the track, it might seem fast.

Model 110 | Bolt Action Rifles | Savage Arms

The oldest continuously manufactured bolt action rifle in North America is now even better. Big game hunting, varmints, predators, target shooting, and more -- we have a Savage Model 110 for you!

www.savagearms.com

by your logic a custom action and a remington action are the same. just different machining marks or finish. I suppose in your mind, different structure all have the same strength as well. This argument is becoming laughable. The point i was making, and have made, is it is IN FACT a different action than previously designed. By your logic a mossberg and a ruger action are the same because they "look" the same to you. get real guy.

 

[hafejd30]

The closed top on the savage isn’t anything new. They made several target model guns with actions like that

My 110BA had the identical action in your picture above. Closed top. CIP length AICS pattern mags

The rest of the savage action is the same as others.

It’s a design as old as the 110BA which is no longer in production. Which is also a gun I had several issues with from extraction to the barrel

With a Shilen select match the 338 LM shot great

Just adding a picatinny rail to a standard action can accomplish that slight stiffness you gain in your 110 FCP action as well

 

[hafejd30]

Just for reference this is the 338 with the Shilen. Same action. I purchased this used in 2015

 

[Nathantc]

The closed top on the savage isn’t anything new. They made several target model guns with actions like that

My 110BA had the identical action in your picture above. Closed top. CIP length AICS pattern mags

The rest of the savage action is the same as others.

It’s a design as old as the 110BA which is no longer in production. Which is also a gun I had several issues with from extraction to the barrel

With a Shilen select match the 338 LM shot great

Just adding a picatinny rail to a standard action can accomplish that slight stiffness you gain in your 110 FCP action as well

i understand the older BA action was the same, as well as the target actions. That closed top is more rigid, id bet more so than what a rail could offer due to such small mounting screws. If it made no difference at all, one would have to ask, why bother ONLY using this design where accuracy and repeatability are more important. Savage is not the only one who uses a closed top design for their precision stuff. Im also not saying its the bestest action ever lol. It is just "different" than your run of the mill 110. I also have no idea if the older BA were "blueprinted" or not, but that is one difference, minor but still different than the walmart 110.

i get that to some these differences dont matter, but if they dont, then tell me what a custom action offers over a basic one.

 

[hafejd30]

i understand the older BA action was the same, as well as the target actions. That closed top is more rigid, id bet more so than what a rail could offer due to such small mounting screws. If it made no difference at all, one would have to ask, why bother ONLY using this design where accuracy and repeatability are more important. Savage is not the only one who uses a closed top design for their precision stuff. Im also not saying its the bestest action ever lol. It is just "different" than your run of the mill 110. I also have no idea if the older BA were "blueprinted" or not, but that is one difference, minor but still different than the walmart 110.

i get that to some these differences dont matter, but if they dont, then tell me what a custom action offers over a basic one.

Aside from tighter tolerances, smooth bolt operation, smooth bolt lift, improved ejection and extraction, better aftermarket trigger capability, pinned or machined in scope bases, 8-40 vs 6-48 base screws, machined recoil lugs, fluted bolts if desired (LRI won’t touch a savage bolt) and better aftermarket support for stock and chassis inlets….other than just a few mentioned here not much honestly

 

[Nathantc]

Aside from tighter tolerances, smooth bolt operation, smooth bolt lift, improved ejection and extraction, better aftermarket trigger capability, pinned or machined in scope bases, 8-40 vs 6-48 base screws, machined recoil lugs, fluted bolts if desired (LRI won’t touch a savage bolt) and better aftermarket support for stock and chassis inlets….other than just a few mentioned here not much honestly

well yeah. lol
I meant when comparing a custom remington clone action to a remington action. $400 vs $2500ish. Clearly not the same. Just like the $200-$300 savage action vs the $800ish action. and clearly the $800ish savage action is no where near the $2500ish custom action. My point is they are not apples to apples

I personally feel savage would make great strides with a total redesign of their bolt heads. Seems to be the key issue with most of them. Extractor, and ejector issues causing yes, even feed issues.

 

[hafejd30]

The fclass match I shot was a regional championship match in greyling Michigan several years ago. The winner who stomped every gun on the line including the higher end guys/guns did so with a rebarreled savage and sightron 10-50 SIII. They have their place. For that gun at that moment it was it’s time to shine.

Next year, same guy/same gun. Barrel or scope went to hell. Never did figure it out. Couldn’t consistently hit paper at 1000. Not a savage issue but if you were there that day you’d leave saying “savage sucks” the year before you’d be buying one based on the performance

 

[hafejd30]

well yeah. lol
I meant when comparing a custom remington clone action to a remington action. $400 vs $2500ish. Clearly not the same. Just like the $200-$300 savage action vs the $800ish action. and clearly the $800ish savage action is no where near the $2500ish custom action. My point is they are not apples to apples

I personally feel savage would make great strides with a total redesign of their bolt heads. Seems to be the key issue with most of them. Extractor, and ejector issues causing yes, even feed issues.

I get what your saying. Let’s just compare a 700 to a custom 700 platform action. They use the same trigger/stocks etc. I’m talking a factory vs a $800 to $1200 action. Like a SPS takeoff vs big horn origin

Custom will have everything trued already. The shop I shoot for checks every action that comes in from Stiller/bat or whatever they’re using. The action essentially needs to meet “blueprinted” tolerances to the level or very close to what he would consider acceptable vs him actually blueprinting a stock 700 action. I have no idea how long the blueprinting takes but it sounded time consuming. As a customer your paying for a factory action and the time for the smith.

Then factor in the scope base. Some come with a base machined in them. That’s an egw/nightforce base cost savings right there. The screws will likely be 8-40 vs 6-48. Generally the base if not machined in is pinned to the action. My Stiller P1000 is.

The bolt design/lift/extraction/ejection are smoother on the custom. But for all purposes let’s say other than the tolerances of it the average person doesn’t see the difference

Also add in the machined or pinned recoil lugs. Depending on action

Most customs will have the preferred side bolt release on the 700 vs the bottom trigger guard release on the factoy

There’s several things I’m sure I’m missing here but if nothing else take the Remington 700 factory action and get it blueprinted and add other options you wish it had. Go to LRI website and price it out

Then compare that price to an aftermarket action with those options already. The difference won’t be as much as you think

And if you sell a custom action it will recover way better $$ value then a factory 700 action will. Regardless of how dolled up it is

As far as the design of the savage bolt head. The floating head is a decent design. Also the 9/64” detent ball will fix 95% of savages out there. I installed a full kit in 1 because the detent ball wasn’t enough by itself

 

[LR1845]

If a Geo Metro is the only thing you have driven around the track, it might seem fast.

now thats ^^^ some funny shit i dont care who you are LMAO!!!

 

[moosemeat]

Yes the closed top action is more rigid than the open top. What do rifles with closed top actions start at price wise? Do they extract and eject without needing work? Do they feed? Cause if savage fixes those problems I will consider them. But not over a howa, tikka or ruger at the same price.
For the record I dont really love Remington either, but all of my Remington have functioned. Only 2 of the half dozen or so obtained excellent accuracy stock.
Way I look at savage vs other low cost makers is you can buy a Hyundai and fix problems, maybe it's faster than a civic, but the civic just works. New things should not need work to function. Every savage I've owned had problems. I haven't owned one in 20 years tho.

 

[moosemeat]

BTW, what action cost $2500? As a poor I thought like Termunus Zues and Arc Mausinfield where like $1500. Are we talking like 408 sized actions?

 

[TheNatural21]

There are significant differences in the cheap vs target Savage actions. The differences offer increased stiffness and some desirable features. Unfortunately there aren't any differences in extraction or ejection, which is what lots of people have trouble with.

You guys are both at least partially right. A basic Walmart 110 is not the same as as higher end 110. However, they may have the same problems and lots of parts are the same so it's easy to see why you would say there's little functional difference.

As you go up the current Savage line you get
-top bolt release instead of the bottom trigger guard one
-8-40 instead of 6-48 scope rail mounting screws.
-blueprinting. I have read exactly what this involves but all I remember is thinking they didn't do as much as the marketing team made me think
-solid top receiver instead of the open top one
-longer target/tactical bolt handles
-different triggers. There are 3 versions of the accutrigger currently, although 2 are the same thing with only a spring changed. The third is the target trigger with the red blade which has a different sear
-slicker finishing with things like TiN bolt body and cerakote

 

[Nathantc]

BTW, what action cost $2500? As a poor I thought like Termunus Zues and Arc Mausinfield where like $1500. Are we talking like 408 sized actions?

correct. That was what stuck in my head after adding some things to a dream build i had worked up. After trigger and barrel. My mistake on that.

 

[supercorndogs]

Generally Remingtons feed and extract OK. They aren't fast either, but they are cheep, and usually run circles around a Savage in the feed and extract category. Most extraction problems can be addressed by moving the bolt handle. I like Remington Actions, and own several, but there is no way I would by an 800+ factory Remington 700 rifle again. Last time I wanted something to swab barrels around with, I just bought an action.

Probably the biggest reason people like to bash on Savage rifles, is because Savage rifle owners get so butt hurt about it.

 

[Jackomason]

Also savage people are simultaneously the pinicale and the base of the "just as good" crowed. All While over paying for hot garbage.

 

[supercorndogs]

by your logic a custom action and a remington action are the same. just different machining marks or finish. I suppose in your mind, different structure all have the same strength as well. This argument is becoming laughable. The point i was making, and have made, is it is IN FACT a different action than previously designed. By your logic a mossberg and a ruger action are the same because they "look" the same to you. get real guy.

No, not even close. Do you think truing a Remington makes it no longer a Remington action?

They make the action with the same ejection port for other lines of rifles. What are the other differences? What machines do they make them on? Do you think Defiance goes down and makes their actions out of remington tubes on Remington's machines, then "trues them up." Do you understand why you can buy a pre-fit for an 850 dollar custom action? Are you aware thats not even the cheapest custom action?

 

[Hennig]

no, i'm not saying that, im saying its not the same action as the basic 110 action (as someone tried to say above). That was the point i'm trying to make. The only issues i see with savage really is the damned ejector plunger needs refining (feeding issues) and the extractor really could use a total redesign. (extracting/ejection issues) Past those two issues i've yet to see a common occurring issue with savage across the line. Not mentioning triggers as that is subjective to the one using it.

99% of what an action does is put a round into a chamber and subsequently remove the brass. By the sounds of it, your Savages are rubbish at those two basic things...

 

[Stoweit]

Can’t believe this thread is still going!

 

[LR1845]

Can’t believe this thread is still going!

There’s one of these threads on EVERY gun related site there is and most more than once…almost like herpes

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Some folks just can't deal with Savage rifles continuing to satisfy and shooting great. Mine has never missed a feed nor an extraction and shoots sub MOA consistently. This rattles purists and makes them defensive and aggressive. My Nephew and Brother have all the really good stuff - and when we all shoot for bragging rights I keep pace with them and truthfully both of them shoot my Savage FrankenGun better than they shoot their rifles costing a whole lot more.

It ain't about the money spent or the Brand name. It's about the way we shoot and the platform we choose to build on. Some hate Savage and some of us find them pretty dang good. My Savage was my first precision rifle and it has never let me down. I have shot some pretty expensive and exclusive rifles belonging to range mates and they are slick as a whistle *but* they don't shoot better in my hands than the Savage I have tricked over the last few years.

Folks can rag about them all they want but I have never has those bad experiences so it's all just yada yada to me. Sour grapes...I routinely shoot as good as/better than guys at the range with way better stuff and more experience. They get upset as well when I tell 'em it's a Savage 10 FCP-SR in 6.5 CM with MDT chassis and goodies and a Vortex Golden Eagle. I hear it all the time about how I'll never recover my investment when I sell it to move up.

I ain't selling it...I'll just re barrel it here next season and continue to make them angry. It works for me.

VooDoo

 

[supercorndogs]

 

[Crankie]

I don't hate them though. Will I buy one? NO

 

[Jmkjr87]

Some folks just can't deal with Savage rifles continuing to satisfy and shooting great. Mine has never missed a feed nor an extraction and shoots sub MOA consistently. This rattles purists and makes them defensive and aggressive. My Nephew and Brother have all the really good stuff - and when we all shoot for bragging rights I keep pace with them and truthfully both of them shoot my Savage FrankenGun better than they shoot their rifles costing a whole lot more.

It ain't about the money spent or the Brand name. It's about the way we shoot and the platform we choose to build on. Some hate Savage and some of us find them pretty dang good. My Savage was my first precision rifle and it has never let me down. I have shot some pretty expensive and exclusive rifles belonging to range mates and they are slick as a whistle *but* they don't shoot better in my hands than the Savage I have tricked over the last few years.

Folks can rag about them all they want but I have never has those bad experiences so it's all just yada yada to me. Sour grapes...I routinely shoot as good as/better than guys at the range with way better stuff and more experience. They get upset as well when I tell 'em it's a Savage 10 FCP-SR in 6.5 CM with MDT chassis and goodies and a Vortex Golden Eagle. I hear it all the time about how I'll never recover my investment when I sell it to move up.

I ain't selling it...I'll just re barrel it here next season and continue to make them angry. It works for me.

VooDoo

I find this whole post very suspect

 

[Iron Duke]

Gotta ... Savage 220F slug gun. Outshoots my Benelli SBE2 and M2 for shotgun states deer management. Spent hours cycling the bolt with extra fine honing powder just to get it to cycle bearably smoothly so I don't dread picking it up. Fohgeddabout cycling it slowly & quietly. If you don't cycle it like it owes you money it will failure to feed. It might jam anyway. Getting a good spare magazine is a roll of the dice, I think I bought ten to get 3 good ones. Good luck trying to make a fast magazine change, that's another CF waiting to happen. I actually cut up and Frankensteined two magazines together to get 4 round boxes just to reduce the number of clown show magazine changes needed for volume shooting. Dreadful platform ... with a great trigger and shoots as well, or better than anything out there. That's up to and including TarHunts and Griffin & Howe's $8,000.00 slug gun. If I had to take ONE shot with a slug, it would be with that Savage.

 

[Jackomason]

Gotta ... Savage 220F slug gun. Outshoots my Benelli SBE2 and M2 for shotgun states deer management. Spent hours cycling the bolt with extra fine honing powder just to get it to cycle bearably smoothly so I don't dread picking it up. Fohgeddabout cycling it slowly & quietly. If you don't cycle it like it owes you money it will failure to feed. It might jam anyway. Getting a good spare magazine is a roll of the dice, I think I bought ten to get 3 good ones. Good luck trying to make a fast magazine change, that's another CF waiting to happen. I actually cut up and Frankensteined two magazines together to get 4 round boxes just to reduce the number of clown show magazine changes needed for volume shooting. Dreadful platform ... with a great trigger and shoots as well, or better than anything out there. That's up to and including TarHunts and Griffin & Howe's $8,000.00 slug gun. If I had to take ONE shot with a slug, it would be with that Savage.
View attachment 7697384View attachment 7697388

 

[Steel head]

Savage sucks!
There ,,,,I said it!
But a decade ago it sucked a lot less.
My humble beginnings in the long range game.

 

[Huskydriver]

Savage/mosin owners yelling it's just as good with an moa scope on top....

 

[Maveriten]

A couple of years ago a guy at the bench next to me was getting 1.2" groups at 200 yards with a Savage 10 FCP chambered in .308 with a 20" barrel.

 

[Huskydriver]

A couple of years ago a guy at the bench next to me was getting 1.2" groups at 200 yards with a Savage 10 FCP chambered in .308 with a 20" barrel.

 

[357Max]

You'll thank us in the morning, after your first match.

 

[Hennig]

 

[Jmkjr87]

View attachment 7697771

The way those threads stacked up is tooooooooooo funny

 

[TonyTheTiger]

This thread is gold. Savage fanbois are to rifles what Mossberg 930 owners are to shotguns.
The mental gymnastics it must take to come to the conclusion that everyone is jealous of your cheap rifle because it shoots ok are beyond my comprehension.

 

[Jmkjr87]

This thread is gold. Savage fanbois are to rifles what Mossberg 930 owners are to shotguns.
The mental gymnastics it must take to come to the conclusion that everyone is jealous of your cheap rifle because it shoots ok are beyond my comprehension.

That's why I call it the Savage cope

 

[Nathantc]

View attachment 7697771

yup. my cheaper rifle needed a simple and cheap fix. oh the horror lol. Seriously. savage has its place. I can agree competition is not its place, nor military or enforcement. The price reflects that. Its not cope, its being realistic. If i wanted superb everything from an oem rifle, its would probably be barrett or armalite (off the top of my head). Obviously no where near the same price tag. I never said they were the best at anything, but i will say they are not the worst either. Simple feed and ejection issues aren't that big of a deal when the repair is also simple and cheap. Point being, it could be worse, and obviously it could be better.

 

[Jmkjr87]

yup. my cheaper rifle needed a simple and cheap fix. oh the horror lol. Seriously. savage has its place. I can agree competition is not its place, nor military or enforcement. The price reflects that. Its not cope, its being realistic. If i wanted superb everything from an oem rifle, its would probably be barrett or armalite (off the top of my head). Obviously no where near the same price tag. I never said they were the best at anything, but i will say they are not the worst either. Simple feed and ejection issues aren't that big of a deal when the repair is also simple and cheap. Point being, it could be worse, and obviously it could be better.

Well if I was going to put ELITE on the rifle I was selling, I'd be sure the customer could feed and extract cases reliably but I don't think Savages cares. They know the just as good guys will still buy them so why fix it right? Let the customer deal with it.

 

[Northernjets]

yup. my cheaper rifle needed a simple and cheap fix. oh the horror lol. Seriously. savage has its place. I can agree competition is not its place, nor military or enforcement. The price reflects that. Its not cope, its being realistic. If i wanted superb everything from an oem rifle, its would probably be barrett or armalite (off the top of my head). Obviously no where near the same price tag. I never said they were the best at anything, but i will say they are not the worst either. Simple feed and ejection issues aren't that big of a deal when the repair is also simple and cheap. Point being, it could be worse, and obviously it could be better.

The Savage 110 Elite was specifically made for competition and come in at ~$2500 CAD up here. That price point should not reflect an action that can basically be expected to have issues out of the box. It is insane to think otherwise. A $500 beater Savage Axis being rough around the corners, sure. A 2.5k rifle though? Fuck no. Another $150 nets you a Tikka Tac A1, which I personally don't think is worth the money either, but at least they consistently work out of the box. If having to waste time by ordering 5 ejectors to fuck with in order to attempt getting a bnib $2500 rifle is your thing, then power to you but I get serious Stockholm Syndrom vibes from Savage fanboys.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

You'll thank us in the morning, after your first match.

View attachment 7697662
View attachment 7697663

Tikka, dammit.

 

[Nathantc]

Well if I was going to put ELITE on the rifle I was selling, I'd be sure the customer could feed and extract cases reliably but I don't think Savages cares. They know the just as good guys will still buy them so why fix it right? Let the customer deal with it.

The Savage 110 Elite was specifically made for competition and come in at ~$2500 CAD up here. That price point should not reflect an action that can basically be expected to have issues out of the box. It is insane to think otherwise. A $500 beater Savage Axis being rough around the corners, sure. A 2.5k rifle though? Fuck no. Another $150 nets you a Tikka Tac A1, which I personally don't think is worth the money either, but at least they consistently work out of the box. If having to waste time by ordering 5 ejectors to fuck with in order to attempt getting a bnib $2500 rifle is your thing, then power to you but I get serious Stockholm Syndrom vibes from Savage fanboys.

I fully agree and also had no idea these issues were so common when i bought my $1400 savage. I had issues with feeding in 2 out of the countless savage rifles ive owned in the past. Possibly because i usually had 2nd hand rifles. I agree 100% at that price range its unacceptable that i have to fix it for basic function. I also feel its unacceptable that a $1400 rifle needed to go to a gunsmith for a chamber polish due to a bur causing rounds to stick. The most unacceptable things is savage as a company, expecting me to pay the shipping to send back a $1400 rifle that didn't work out of the box. So yes i get why there is hate. Man i totally get it, and this will be the last savage i ever buy new anyways. It damn sure is the last savage ill ever own that i plan to do more than hunt with. This rifle has taught me a lesson for sure. The only savings grace is im pretty crafty and can fix most things myself, saving money doing so. Now with the bugs worked out i like the rifle. That being said. Next time i build a rifle, it will start on a custom action. Sure it will cost more in the end, possibly twice as much, but at least it will do what i want it to do. That and i can get features like a mechanical ejection and claw extractor. Maybe personal preference but i feel that is the best design available for feeding and extraction. I spent this money on a savage because like many others savage was always a good rifle to me. This one, and ironically the one before it, were the two that have changed how i feel about savage.

Savage really could have a fine rifle if they simply changed the design of the bolt head. It could be done with no other changes to the rifle. It can remain a floating bolt head. The ejector and extractor need serious engineering for sure. If they would do that i feel they could really be a contender in the OEM world.

So my arguments here were never to say savage is wonderful. Just that until recent years, for me, they were great. My interest in bolt actions has changed though, now im wanting more from them and savage is letting me down. As for my receiver argument, i was only stating its different than the lesser 110. Not that it was savage actually fixing the issues that plague savage. Like someone else here mentioned. Savage was fixing an issue that no one had with savage while ignoring the problem that is clearly more common than i would know.

Bottom line is this
It will always be hard to convince someone that something is no good, when its been good to them.

 

[moosemeat]

Savage Rifle Stockholm's Syndrome.
SRSS....

 

[orkan]

If people are happy, they are happy.

No one that is happy, is ever welcoming to someone telling them they shouldn't be.

Yet if someone is unhappy, they are almost always receptive to options that would make them happy. They'll at least consider it.

Though there are those poor souls that delight in unhappiness. Being unhappy is their normal, and feeling normal is more important to them than being happy. They'll even go so far as to encourage others to be unhappy, so they can have someone to be unhappy with.

 

[Northernjets]

I fully agree and also had no idea these issues were so common when i bought my $1400 savage. I had issues with feeding in 2 out of the countless savage rifles ive owned in the past. Possibly because i usually had 2nd hand rifles. I agree 100% at that price range its unacceptable that i have to fix it for basic function. I also feel its unacceptable that a $1400 rifle needed to go to a gunsmith for a chamber polish due to a bur causing rounds to stick. The most unacceptable things is savage as a company, expecting me to pay the shipping to send back a $1400 rifle that didn't work out of the box.

If it makes you feel any better, Savage did the same with buddy's clusterfuck 110 tactical rifle I posted earlier in the thread. No RMA number or shipping label or anything. Just "Ship it to the address on the website with a note inside". Totally unacceptable for a bnib rifle with issues.

The only savings grace is im pretty crafty and can fix most things myself, saving money doing so. Now with the bugs worked out i like the rifle. That being said. Next time i build a rifle, it will start on a custom action. Sure it will cost more in the end, possibly twice as much, but at least it will do what i want it to do. That and i can get features like a mechanical ejection and claw extractor. Maybe personal preference but i feel that is the best design available for feeding and extraction.

It actually doesn't have to cost much more than your Elite to jump behind a custom these days. My initial ARC Nucleus build was in the same ball park with an IBI barrel, TT Special and KRG Bravo. In fact, if you wanted to save some money in the mean time, you could even remove the small shank barrels from your Savages to use since the Nucleus can take Savage pre-fits. This is exactly why people are saying that it just isn't worth buying a Savage outside of an extremely tight budget.

Savage really could have a fine rifle if they simply changed the design of the bolt head. It could be done with no other changes to the rifle. It can remain a floating bolt head. The ejector and extractor need serious engineering for sure. If they would do that i feel they could really be a contender in the OEM world.

Agreed. I feel their QC/QA definitely needs to step up as well.

So my arguments here were never to say savage is wonderful. Just that until recent years, for me, they were great. My interest in bolt actions has changed though, now im wanting more from them and savage is letting me down. As for my receiver argument, i was only stating its different than the lesser 110. Not that it was savage actually fixing the issues that plague savage. Like someone else here mentioned. Savage was fixing an issue that no one had with savage while ignoring the problem that is clearly more common than i would know.

I also agree that Savages as of the later years have been much rougher and problematic. One of my buddies has a couple older ones that I wouldn't hesitate to own, including a single shot 7 SAUM with a mechanical ejector. The recent ones I've played with have been atrocious though. One of the local gun shops out right refuses to deal with Savage now because of the warranty rates they were dealing with. Two of the guys that organize the club matches I attend had Savages that straight up hard failed on them and stopped firing. The one new guy that still runs a Savage is constantly fighting his rifle.

Savage is decent at releasing rifles at an attractive price with loads of features. Where they fall short is the quality in the implementation and the CS that ends up having to follow suit. It just doesn't make the gamble worth it with other options that are either cheaper with a few less non-critical features or a little more for a much nicer rifle.

 

[LR1845]

All won with savages…all single feed matches….would I buy another savage….NO!

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Sorry and apologies in advance but I need to ask: Those of us who purchased Savage rifles and have never had a single issue and have managed to shoot them sub MOA (or whatever) thru thousands of rounds and still use them are delusional? Stupid? Ignorant?

I get it that folks have had bad experiences and learned that Savage is not "Their Thing" - we all learn by our experiences and move forward accordingly. Life is choices - use the best information you can to make those choices. But I have not had one single issue with my Savage FCP-10 SR. Not one. Shot sub MOA *right* out the box and with better optics and MDT chassis I shoot at a level well beyond my experience or training. No, I'm not a seasoned sniper and I'm not a top level competitor in PRS. Just a guy who hammers shit out to near a mile now with 6.5 CM and love my Savage *because*
it has never let me down. Ever.

My brother has some really good stuff and I have shot it - Custom stuff, tweaked and blueprinted Remington M700's and some really expensive Customs that I simply do not have a name for because I do not care. Nephew with Ruger stuff and a tweaked out M700 and a custom .308 built on a Remington blueprint. I have shot them and they are *fabulous* in smooth and fast. But I don't do that fast stuff because I do not compete - did manage to end a feral dog at 600 yards on by brothers farm with my Savage because he couldn't hit it at distance and it was eating folks calves.

Blah, blah, blah, thump yer chest and brag...all good. Those of us who have no problems with Savage are delusional, stupid, or ignorant of all the problems? I'm not sure where I have failed except that I'll be out there Thursday shooting sub MOA groups at 200 - 600 yards with my POS Savage and at least one person will ask me how I'm doing it and with what. I have had several folks buy Savage rifles based on my performance and not one of them has had all these failures and problems. I'm not saying they don't exist....I'm saying those of us who have not had the problems are not gonna trash our Savages cause some Custom Fanboy says they are junk.

I'm out - had my say.

VooDoo