Why use 556 when Valkyrie is available ?

[deersniper]

Seeing the cost and availability of black hills 556 77grain , seems you would be better off just buying a Valkyrie barrel?

thoughts ?

18” barrel if it matters.
Edit 2. I don’t reload

 

[charnicus]

Without knowing ideal reloading product availability specific to the 224 perhaps that’s a factor to consider. Reliability / feeding. I’ve seen mixed reports on 6.8 spc mag reliability. 223 / 556 is definitely the easy button. 224 is no question ballistically superior. If you dabble why not? Last I had seen 224 was certainly more available off the shelf. Perhaps some are scarred from the ammo issues during its infancy. I would imagine that’s mostly worked out by now.

 

[Nouseforaname01]

I went through this same thought process, I figured I had enough spare uppers and lowers that I just built a Valkyrie AR. It’s cheap to shoot and the accuracy isn’t bad with the cheap ammo.

 

[aslrookie]

You still loose the ability to slap in a 5.56 mag and run with it. I’d honestly rather have a 223AI because you could at least shoot regular 223 through it if absolutely needed. You just wouldn’t get the AI performance, but that’s better than having to use a different bolt and barrel for the Valkyrie.

 

[hlee]

Valkyrie was available wen 223/5.56 was unobtanium. Now that 223 is back on the shelves- in some capacity- I haven't seen any valk. If you want to shoot heavy for caliber projectiles, reload, and/or want to shoot factory match ammo and don't mind somewhat shorter barrel life- the valk may be for you. But, it will be a niche cartridge when 223/5.56 is plentiful again. And, while we may not get back to pre-pandemic prices, the valk will command niche cartridge price when xm'whatever' is at plinking prices.

 

[Romeo458]

We have both on the shelves here now, but when 5.56 was MIA or a buck a shot yes Valkyrie was still there and the only price rise is from the overprint of money. As the saying goes, why not both.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Because the military doesn’t shoot 224

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Many of us are too invested in 223 to even consider a full switch the 224V. Function and accuracy is nailed down to a science, not so much for 224V. Brass is free everywhere. Loads from 55's at 2200fps to 75ELD's at 2900 and everything in between are attainable. Mags work and are everywhere.

 

[supercorndogs]

Has anyone done a 223AI AR-15, it seems like the slight crush fit you need for fire forming would be problematic in a semi auto.

 

[SilencedShooter11B]

Having BTDT with 224 Valkyrie, I’d build a 24”-26” 223 Wylde AR15 and keep it simple. There are other ammo choices besides Black Hills.

I liked 224V...I learned a lot from it and now I’m moving on.

 

[deersniper]

I’d build a 24”-26” 223 Wylde

Ewww. So long.too long. Add a dominus /ultra9 / 338 ultra and it’s 32-36”

There are other ammo choices besides Black Hills.

Who makes 77tmk @ 556 velocity ?

 

[nn8734]

Ewww. So long.too long. Add a dominus /ultra9 / 338 ultra and it’s 32-36”


Who makes 77tmk @ 556 velocity ?

Black Hills

Black Hills 5.56x45mm NATO Ammo 77 Grain Sierra Tipped MatchKing

Black Hills produces factory new ammunition equal to some of the best handloads and is quickly becoming one of most popular manufacturers of ammunition....

www.midwayusa.com

They’re out of stock at Midway atm but that’s who makes them.

 

[hlee]

Federal also has a 223rem 77 grain match king load in their gold medal line.

 

[sparky702]

I shoot 5.56 Sierra 77 grain matchkings out of a 20 inch ballistic barrel in prs gas gun matches . I am running 2748 fps using tac . I also own a 224 valk with a 20 inch barrel and I really dont think you gain that much velocity at the bullet weight , But my valk shoots the 90 grain federal fusion around .75-1.0 at 100 yds and it hammers deer so that is the reason I shoot a valk. plus it seems to shoot the 60 grain noshers very well .

 

[sscoyote]

I have a 223AI AR 26" Hart 9T, and netting 3075 out of the 69 TMK for coyotes. 0 problems fireforming brass even military. I also use the old VLD magazines gives me .25" more OAL.

 

[Halfnutz]

I had a LMT Valk barrel I was not really satisfied with and ended up.parting with it. Still have a case of AE Valk ammo. I keep thinking I need to do a dedicated upper because I have a case of AE.224. But then I don't because its AE .224 Valk. If the eggs were better, I'd build the chicken.

 

[Smith1]

Shhhh. Don’t let the cat out of the bag. The only hunting ammo I’ve been able to regularly get is Valkyrie. Feeding issues are the big turnoff, but that’s fixed with some tuning and $42 pri magazines

 

[SilencedShooter11B]

Ewww. So long.too long. Add a dominus /ultra9 / 338 ultra and it’s 32-36”


Who makes 77tmk @ 556 velocity ?

if you’re basing max barrel length off of a suppressor being added then perhaps a dedicated caliber specific can would be a good investment which would also open up other options barrel/cartridge wise. And more suppressors are always fun

And I ran a 20” .224 Valkyrie for three years. I did get good performance out of it but it would’ve been much easier to get the same results, increased velocity, longer brass life etc with a longer barrel

I handload, so my 77gr TMK loads are my own, but googling factory loaded ammo turned up several results. I can’t attest to quality/performance in comparison to black hills but there are some fallback options that could be tested if your primary choice is unavailable.

I spent a lot of time and money going down this road. I don’t regret it; I learned a lot about handloading, shooting, and about planning out specific builds and really examining what I’m trying to accomplish because of it. Good luck with whichever route you take

 

[deersniper]

First of all, I can't believe you don't reload. How can you be this into shooting and not reload?

Time time time. Between baby and business I don’t have time to shoot let alone dry fire much or get into reloading.

I can load Black Hills quality 233 for $.24 a round. A universal load that shoots well in 223 Wylde chambers. 2790 in a 20" gas gun, 2950 in a 26" bolt gun.

What are the specs? Maybe I can get @FCS to make some for me.

 

[357Max]

Seeing the cost and availability of black hills 556 77grain , seems you would be better off just buying a Valkyrie barrel?

thoughts ?

18” barrel if it matters.
Edit 2. I don’t reload

BurtGummer would start reloading!

18" Craddock 224 Valk Currently has some m lock weights on the rail. Trying to get this set up for Geissele gas gun match with 77 MK.
Weights will come off for Coyotes in Western MD & I'm going to do a form 1 quiet bore for it, if it shoots worth a dam.

Shot my first loads yesterday, but ran out of time to finish.

An oddity with the Valkyrie is that the 77MK touches lands @ 2.200
Berger 85.5 touch @ 2.357

Only shot 3 loads with the 77MK using 6.5 StaBall so started low #1 - 2650, #2 - 2680, #3 - 2755. All shot under 1" @100y
The above were loaded @ 2.198 to account for .002 shoulder bump. No issues.

The Berger on the other hand WTF. Only shot 2 loads and ran out of time. #1 - 2600 2 x touching & 3 flyers. #2 - 2649 3 x touching & 2 flyers.
The Bergers were loaded @ 2.295 (longest for PRI mags) = .063 jump.

Next weekend I'll try to get the 77MK to 2800ish. If I can get the Berger 85.5's to group at 2700 they'll be perfect LR Coyote medicine.

 

[deersniper]

BurtGummer would start reloading!

Lol we’re you in Lewes a few weekends ago??

 

[357Max]

No the last match I shot was Mason Dixon at Mifflen PA.

OK I lied, I was in Lewis, but only to take the Ferry over to Cape May. Are there matches in Lewis?

Are you going to the Guardian @ Pig River in Oct?

 

[deersniper]

No the last match I shot was Mason Dixon at Mifflen PA.

OK I lied, I was in Lewis, but only to take the Ferry over to Cape May. Are there matches in Lewis?

Are you going to the Guardian @ Pig River in Oct?

No matches in Lewes. But someone called me Burt when I was walking on the sidewalk. Wtf lol.

No pigg River for me. Looks awesome but I’m il be in 100+ hour work weeks that time of year and my “performance” that these last few matches has been underwhelming lol

 

[sparky702]

I had a LMT Valk barrel I was not really satisfied with and ended up.parting with it. Still have a case of AE Valk ammo. I keep thinking I need to do a dedicated upper because I have a case of AE.224. But then I don't because its AE .224 Valk. If the eggs were better, I'd build the chicken.

I have bought a gun because I found a box of ammo in the closet .

 

[opeagle]

Yea, but I can get 3,100 FPS with a 69 grain Sierra Match King with the Valkyrie.

I’m still playing with mine, but I’ll say this. I wouldn’t skip a precision 223 for a Valkyrie right off. I had the 223 stuff and still enjoy messing with them. To me the Valkyrie is another precision semi auto I get use. It has the benefit of being able to shoot the heavier and somewhat more ballistically efficient projectiles.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

I have bought a gun because I found a box of ammo in the closet .

I bought one because I had brass and another because I had the magazines.

OP, if you're on the fence I would say this. .223 is great out to 600, maybe 800ish if you're good at reading wind and the stars align. Yeah, yeah, I've seen the video shooting ball at a grand with an A2. That's not happening with my eyesight.

Valkyrie is a 1,000 yard and more cartridge. If you don't have the distance I'm not sure I would bother with it. Not reloading makes it tougher on you as well.

 

[SRPowah]

I prefer 5.56 because my AR is used for <400 yards. It can go further, but I have other rifles I would grab if I knew I was shooting further.

What exactly are you trying to do with the Valk?

 

[deersniper]

What exactly are you trying to do with the Valk?

To Have mk262 performance with less co$t and better availability.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

To Have mk262 performance with less co$t and better availability.

Then to go back to what I said about not reloading. You could buy the cheap (if that's ever possible again) 75 grain TMJ, pull the bullets and reseat with the 77TMK a la JP Mexican Match video BUT you still need a press, collet die, and seater. They're supposed to be good 600 and in but not as good as any 77 grain I've built or bought in .223. Or at least I can't shoot them well, lol.

 

[opeagle]

I thought the JP mex-match was with a tipped 69 grain match king?

 

[Mike_in_FL]

I thought the JP mex-match was with a tipped 69 grain match king?

He says he has tried 69 and 77 TMKs and some Hornady ELD-Ms.

 

[opeagle]

True, for some reason I recalled he was loading the 69 TMK.

No matter, I’ve done limited testing and that part went well.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

True, for some reason I recalled he was loading the 69 TMK.

No matter, I’ve done limited testing and that part went well.

I used the 77s and it worked very well for me. G1 is better on the 77 if that matters to you, .425 vs. .375. Of course, can you buy them now? Maybe the Taliban has some in stock.

 

[deersniper]

Maybe the Taliban has some in stock.

Probably have more mk262 than the us retailers

 

[TimK]

I built a Valk specifically for some of the team matches I shoot. Running 88 eldms, my wind calls are virtually identical to my teammate running one of the 6mm's. I'd have to go back and look, but if I recall correctly, the wind on the Valk is basically HALF that of my .223's running 77SMK's. It's a huge difference.

That said, I've had issues with mine and have been chasing my tail with it for a couple years. Feeding and reliability have been 100% with PRI mags. I've had an odd wandering zero issue that is not the fault of the cartridge, I don't think.

When it's working as it should, it's amazing. At the last team match where I ran it, I rolled on to the practice range, confirmed the stupid zero, and then immediately engaged what was probably a 14" diamond target at 1270. Went 4 for 5. The last one was a deliberate miss because hits were so hard to see at that distance. I held off to the right so I could spot the splash in the dirt and it impacted exactly where expected. The gun lost it's mind on day two of the match (zero shifted 0.5 down) so I switched to a backup rifle in .223, but when it's working, it's WORKING.

 

[opeagle]

I’ll bite, what’s better?

 

[mheimer_45]

Because I can buy 5.56 by the 1000’s for $279. Well used to.....

What’s your Valk cost???

 

[deersniper]

Because I can buy 5.56 by the 1000’s for $279. Well used to.....

What’s your Valk cost???

O Rly.

What’s your cost for match grade 69+ grain?

 

[357Max]

To Have mk262 performance with less co$t and better availability.

This is probably the best Valkyrie mk262 replacement.
$299 a case with shipping about 6 months ago from target sports.
Shot right at 1 moa out of mine but only shot 1 group and then played around at 600.

Just found my notes for it from my 18" barrel. Not bad for 18" @ .441 G1

 

[Carlos Danger]

I stumbled on a barrel, brass, and dies for a decent price. Decided I had nothing to lose so tossed it together. Grabbed a mag for my 6.5 Grendel and have had zero feed issues. Nice shooting rifle. Seems to like 7u SMK's with CFE223. Can put down some good groups when I focus and I haven't really worked up loads for it yet.

 

[Rockdoc173]

Seeing the cost and availability of black hills 556 77grain , seems you would be better off just buying a Valkyrie barrel?

thoughts ?

18” barrel if it matters.
Edit 2. I don’t reload

There's a difference between raw numbers and real-world experience, as we all know. The Valkyrie exemplifies this. The numbers say it should be a no-brainer and under certain conditions it may be, but I had a lot of trouble with it in real-world shooting. In my mid-range barrel, I shot about 5 different loads from Copper Creek, the best laid down 1.5" 5-shot groups and the barf-in-mouth loads were in the 3" range. Believe it or not, some of the best stuff I fired in terms of group size was the "cheap" American Eagle but it still wasn't where it should've been. I eventually downloaded the Valkyrie for the ARC and I've been very encouraged with those results. So, if you said, why not the Grendel or why not the ARC? I'd agree that you have a case, but I'm not confident at all in the Valkyrie. I have been able to ding six and seven hundred with ease using the ARC, whereas I had trouble getting past five hundred with the Valkyrie, no doubt those generous groups coming back to haunt me. I believe both could do better, especially with a better shooter, but it just comes down to how much time a guy wants to spend getting it to a certain level. All my experience with the ARC thus far has been with factory Hornady Black (that's all I have been able to find) 105 HPBT. I haven't even loaded for it yet. JMO

 

[RickyRodney]

How much of a FPS gain is everyone getting with out 224V with a 77TMK over 5.56? Assuming equal barrel lengths at 18-20"

 

[357Max]

How much of a FPS gain is everyone getting with out 224V with a 77TMK over 5.56? Assuming equal barrel lengths at 18-20"

I ran 77SMK up to 2875 from my 18” Craddock 224. That was with Federal brass. Started showing a little pressure @ that speed, but 2850 brass looked good & shot under 3/4”
Those loads were with 6.5 StaBall.

Also got the 85.5 Bergers to 2800 & shooting 1” but that was single loaded past mag length 2.345
Going to back them down and try longer jump in the .090-.100 range @ 2725-2750. The 85.5 LRHT did not like .055 - .085 jump in my rifle.
3 touching + 2 flyers in that jump range.

Jst got some Starline Brass, 75 & 80 ELDM to try.

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

I am on the same page as the guys who had mediocre results with the Valkyrie.

I shot it last year, long barrel to keep velocity high, and got a good load eventually. However I think 223 is WAY easier to deal with. It seems to have great performance in a variety of conditions while the Valk does not, and the Valk seems to eat brass pretty fast.

I sold the .224 Valkyrie and went back to .223. I think I will stay there rather than try the 6 ARC also.

Also, I seem to be able to get great accuracy from the .223 out of a 12.5" barrel, and now looking to boost my velocity from same barrel. I got comparible velocity out of the .224 Valk, and ran out of time testing to try to get the best performance I could. In the Valk, most of the factory ammo shot bad, and so everything was handloads for me, Starline brass was the only best option (many were only getting 2 loads out of Hornady brass)...

 

[357Max]

I'm getting 2800fps out of my 20" 223 Wylde with 23.5gr 8208 under a 75gr BTHP. Won a match with it 2 weeks ago. My 22 Grendel with a 22" barrel will do 2975 with a 75gr ELDM.

Those are great #'s for the 22 Grendel. I've never owned a Grendel variant & kind of have my eggs in the SPC case basket since I also have a 6.8.
Does the 22 Grendel work well with the 85gr heavies?

I'm not pimping 224 V. The cartridge was over hyped AF. Just trying to get mine to perform to it's capabilities. Honestly the FGMM 80.5's running 2770 & grouping well has been the highlight so far.

Sadly I cant find any 85gr RDF's in stock anywhere. Supposedly the RDF's should be able to get near the lands within mag length.

One of the odd things about 224 is that 77 SMK's hit the lands at 2.200. Cant load them long to get more speed. 2850 isn't to shabby from a 18", but it's pretty unimpressive unless I can get 85.5 Berger's or unobtanium 85 RDF's grouping well @ 2750+ from this 18" barrel. The speed is there for the Berger's, but haven't found a good seating depth yet. They don't touch lands till 2.357

I'll keep playing with the 224V for a while. Meanwhile I've got a 18" 223 WOA Predator barrel on the way for a Recce build.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Sadly I cant find any 85gr RDF's in stock anywhere.

That's a blessing in disguise, you just don't know it yet.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Shhhh. Don’t let the cat out of the bag. The only hunting ammo I’ve been able to regularly get is Valkyrie. Feeding issues are the big turnoff, but that’s fixed with some tuning and $42 pri magazines

I had a pile of 6.5 Grendel magazines laying around. They feed flawlessly.

 

[Smith1]

I had a pile of 6.5 Grendel magazines laying around. They feed flawlessly.

Mine will run most anything but the PRI seems to remedy most feeding issues people have

 

[RickyRodney]

So out of 20" barrel the 224V might gain 50-100fps over 5.56/.223 when running 75-80gr bullets? Fair to say?

 

[TonyTheTiger]

So out of 20" barrel the 224V might gain 50-100fps over 5.56/.223 when running 75-80gr bullets? Fair to say?

Sounds about right. I think the draw is the ability to run heavier bullets than 223 can mag feed, even if the velocities are still pretty modest.