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Night Vision Wilcox Raptor S
- Thread starter deersniper
- Start date
Find my RAPTAR review outlining the unit sans AB module.
The only redeeming quality of the entire unit is that its able to be mounted onto a weapon, and the range finder. Everything else is joke level bad.
I can't fathom adding another 2-3k to the price to simply have the AB module on it telling you your elevation hold/dial amount, because when you really look at it, are you going to use the wind feature calculating only wind at the gun after all of this? For 3K more? On an already completely overpriced unit bloated with bullshit 'pork' features?
If you're hellbent on this, get the regular RAPTAR for the range feature, get an armboard with distance and 10mph holds (bonus for at night; get a glow in the dark board to write on with a grease pencil for night time ballistics info you can see in the dark) and mail me the $2950 I just saved you for the exact same thing.
I had one for about a year ... sold/traded it to The King.
For me ... when doing night critter control, inside 500yds ... I memorize my DOPE in 50yd increments and that gets me into +/- 4 inch danger space on a yote if I use an ES or a RADIUS.
And for shots over 500yds I figure I will have a few seconds to check ballistics. I use T3 reticles on all the bolt guns, so don't have to worry about ballistics calculator for wind.
So bottom line ... for me .. for what I do ... wasn't worth the extra $$ ... but I guess I had to try it myself to make sure.
==
I also had the IR&D (Belgium company) Vampire Solo ballistics LRF for a while ... and except for two things, I liked it better than the S.
01 - I broke the on/off button and even after 4 months of trying, IR&D were unable to figure out how to export me a replacement. Other than that I found their support (Go Arsen Go !!!) to be EXCELLENT ...
02 - The calculator is NOT AB and I could not get it to match AB closely enuff for my tastes over 1000yds ... of course, these days, I focus on shooting < 901yds day, night, rain, shine, hot, cold, etc.
But the support from IR&D and the Display and the configurability of the unit ... I thought was WAY better than the S. And at $4,500 a better price.
For me ... when doing night critter control, inside 500yds ... I memorize my DOPE in 50yd increments and that gets me into +/- 4 inch danger space on a yote if I use an ES or a RADIUS.
And for shots over 500yds I figure I will have a few seconds to check ballistics. I use T3 reticles on all the bolt guns, so don't have to worry about ballistics calculator for wind.
So bottom line ... for me .. for what I do ... wasn't worth the extra $$ ... but I guess I had to try it myself to make sure.
==
I also had the IR&D (Belgium company) Vampire Solo ballistics LRF for a while ... and except for two things, I liked it better than the S.
01 - I broke the on/off button and even after 4 months of trying, IR&D were unable to figure out how to export me a replacement. Other than that I found their support (Go Arsen Go !!!) to be EXCELLENT ...
02 - The calculator is NOT AB and I could not get it to match AB closely enuff for my tastes over 1000yds ... of course, these days, I focus on shooting < 901yds day, night, rain, shine, hot, cold, etc.
But the support from IR&D and the Display and the configurability of the unit ... I thought was WAY better than the S. And at $4,500 a better price.
Interesting, I've been lusting after one but maybe I will just sit back and be happy w/ my $360 SWR Radius that does everything I want at 1/9th the price of the ES. I love this place
So you just co-witness the reticle on your spotter to the reticle in your lrf or not even bother since you can see the laser through your night spotting rig (PVS-30 in front of your spotter?), and then get the range/dope from your Kestrel (that's linked to your LRF)?
Yes.
With my Spotter 60 I can put the PLRF15c on the reticle. Attach it via trigger cord to a Trimble and it gives you the range of anything on the reticle.
I guess I am the oddball because I absolutely love my RAPTAR. I have the one with the ballistic solver and I find it priceless. I switch it between a 308 Winchester 6.5 Creedmoor and a 22 rimfire. I cannot remember my dope for all three rifles especially the 22 rimfire.
ive got the ES. no AB module. LRF works well. lasers are fine for civilian work but nothing exciting. i definitely wouldnt put out another $3k for AB. ive tried a bunch of trinkets but pretty much come back around to the fastest and most efficient is having a board and scribbling things down for corrections. the ones i dont memorize.
if your shooting in the dark a lot, and have a bunch of different cartridges i can see some value in the AB. but is it$3k. thats up to buyer to decide.
if yu just need something for hunting i wouldnt get any of it. just use a bino integrated lrf
if your shooting in the dark a lot, and have a bunch of different cartridges i can see some value in the AB. but is it$3k. thats up to buyer to decide.
if yu just need something for hunting i wouldnt get any of it. just use a bino integrated lrf
and if yu get one and look to mount at 12 ovlock over scope, make sure your mount isnt too low. i found out the hard way that lower isnt better when you are running a clip on. on one of my setups some of the lasers were blocked by my refurb 30. so had to go back to a taller mount
I do the same thing we taught Afghans that had OP positions. Make a range care or cards. I pick prominant places to range from and then to range to. Use prominient terrain features. Used them in Vietnam and they worked great and still use then today. Of course I do not walk the terrain as much as some of you, but they work well for me. Now someone will come up and say that you cannot see the terrain features. With a good azimuth shot you would be surprised what you can see with a good set of NV or a great thermal, both of which I have.
I’ll go against the grain.
I have been able to do things due to having one I otherwise would probably not be able to do. Range cards, taking time to range with another unit...is all fine, but at night if I roll up on a field I have never hunted or walk to a spot I have never been to, as long as it is within range I can hit it, extremely fast. I could have 3 animals dead on the ground before you got finished looking at your range card or ranging with another optic. There is just no equal in a fluid situation. I do have the AB model. I wouldn’t have one without it. I have loads for my 22lr, 300BO subsonics, and bolt gun calibers in there.
I swap when needed. Takes a few seconds to rezero. The IR laser/illuminator functions on the civie models are a joke. I don’t even fool with those. But lets look at a coyote. Around here if one is mousing in a field or cutting across a field for the most part he stays moving. He may stop for 2-3 seconds every 100-200 yards. I watch his body movements and when I can tell he is slowing up I range him. When he comes to a stop I am already on my hold and am pressing the trigger. No way what so ever the average man could do that with consistency at night past 400 yards. Let’s say 3 come out. I bust number one. 2 and 3 sprint and both stop a couple hundred yards away to look back and figure out WTF just happened. When I see #2 slowing up, he is ranged and when he stops I hit him. Repeat on #3 if I get the chance. Doesn’t have to be long range. 300 blackout out to a few hundred yards, same thing. That bullet is not really losing that much velocity, and trust me it still works at 300 same as 50.
In that video you’ll see me drop the center crosshair back on her at each stop. Gives me range and hold. Each time I put another 190gr Sub X in her vitals. You know the crazy drop of a subsonic 300 BO past 100 yards. Here is no way you could do follow ups and hit where you want that fast without it. That is near a 10 mil hold, so what similar to shooting a 308 at 1k? Just a few yards one way or the other off and you’d miss. Same with the 22lr.
As far as wind, at night we usually have very little wind here to amount to much, so...
I have been able to do things due to having one I otherwise would probably not be able to do. Range cards, taking time to range with another unit...is all fine, but at night if I roll up on a field I have never hunted or walk to a spot I have never been to, as long as it is within range I can hit it, extremely fast. I could have 3 animals dead on the ground before you got finished looking at your range card or ranging with another optic. There is just no equal in a fluid situation. I do have the AB model. I wouldn’t have one without it. I have loads for my 22lr, 300BO subsonics, and bolt gun calibers in there.
I swap when needed. Takes a few seconds to rezero. The IR laser/illuminator functions on the civie models are a joke. I don’t even fool with those. But lets look at a coyote. Around here if one is mousing in a field or cutting across a field for the most part he stays moving. He may stop for 2-3 seconds every 100-200 yards. I watch his body movements and when I can tell he is slowing up I range him. When he comes to a stop I am already on my hold and am pressing the trigger. No way what so ever the average man could do that with consistency at night past 400 yards. Let’s say 3 come out. I bust number one. 2 and 3 sprint and both stop a couple hundred yards away to look back and figure out WTF just happened. When I see #2 slowing up, he is ranged and when he stops I hit him. Repeat on #3 if I get the chance. Doesn’t have to be long range. 300 blackout out to a few hundred yards, same thing. That bullet is not really losing that much velocity, and trust me it still works at 300 same as 50.
In that video you’ll see me drop the center crosshair back on her at each stop. Gives me range and hold. Each time I put another 190gr Sub X in her vitals. You know the crazy drop of a subsonic 300 BO past 100 yards. Here is no way you could do follow ups and hit where you want that fast without it. That is near a 10 mil hold, so what similar to shooting a 308 at 1k? Just a few yards one way or the other off and you’d miss. Same with the 22lr.
As far as wind, at night we usually have very little wind here to amount to much, so...
I’ll also add, I don’t actually own a ton of guns. I have guns for specific purposes and they get used a good bit. What I once had in volume was sold to put together very functional pieces when you add in the NVG, illuminators, and things like the RAPTAR. I know it is a big chunk of change, but it has been a HUGE capability multiplier for my hog, coyote, and deer slaying. Just the confidence alone of not having to worry about being off just a hair or a mile has been worth it. If I had the cash I would buy a second in a minute to have as a backup.
Again, I wouldn’t even consider one without the AB module.
Again, I wouldn’t even consider one without the AB module.
The Raptar S is a 10-ounce marvel. Sure, it's the size of a small brick, but if you have a STANAG-compliant rail, it sits very low -- lower than most IR laser/illuminators. The AB computer is just one special feature -- which also contains an internal database of the combined ballistics of most every man-portable and some crew-served guns with standard-issue rounds. M4 with 855A1? It's in there. M107 with Sabot? There too!
Then you have 10 user-defined ballistics you can enter -- ALL info on YOUR specific ballistic performance is entered in. Then, the Raptar-S has a full internal environment sensor package -- ambient temperature, humidity, barometric pressure, etc -- which it computes against your custom ballistic data, delivering an instant firing solution. When you couple that with a TracIR-compatible thermal optic (Skeet, UTM-X, UTC-X/Xii) with disturbed reticle is where the Raptar really earns its keep.
If you're fortunate enough to land a legit, full power S, then the complaints about the anemic illuminator evaporate entirely.
I assume Wilcox is actively developing a Raptar replacement based upon the RAID.
Now THAT would be epic!
Then you have 10 user-defined ballistics you can enter -- ALL info on YOUR specific ballistic performance is entered in. Then, the Raptar-S has a full internal environment sensor package -- ambient temperature, humidity, barometric pressure, etc -- which it computes against your custom ballistic data, delivering an instant firing solution. When you couple that with a TracIR-compatible thermal optic (Skeet, UTM-X, UTC-X/Xii) with disturbed reticle is where the Raptar really earns its keep.
If you're fortunate enough to land a legit, full power S, then the complaints about the anemic illuminator evaporate entirely.
I assume Wilcox is actively developing a Raptar replacement based upon the RAID.
Now THAT would be epic!
I wish I had snagged that high power RAPTAR S posted on here last year.
As Rod Stewart says, ”Some guys have all the luck”.
It really gets my goat laser and illuminator restrictions, and other toy restrictions. How many people have been running around using high power grey market lasers for years now....everyone still has their eye sight. There are those of us out there doing Gods work slaying feral pigs. Doing exactly what our States beg hunters to do by killing all we can. Then we have to go to the grey market to buy tools to help. Hell set up a FDA National Laser Act if you are that worried about it, but let us have tools that really work and not some neutered up bullshit. I’ll do some online laser training and register the damn thing in my name, no problem. ITAR or fear of technology leak is laughable with this technology. US Dealers saying they can’t sell me something like a LA-5 but pull up pictures of Iraq or A’stan and look at all the cool shit their police, security forces, and military have that you or I cannot. Knowing full and well probably 1/3 to 1/2 of it will end up or already is in terrorist hands. But John Q Taxpayer,nope. Too dangerous or he might sell it to the Chinese. Last time I checked my last name isn’t Clinton.
Rant Off..
As Rod Stewart says, ”Some guys have all the luck”.
It really gets my goat laser and illuminator restrictions, and other toy restrictions. How many people have been running around using high power grey market lasers for years now....everyone still has their eye sight. There are those of us out there doing Gods work slaying feral pigs. Doing exactly what our States beg hunters to do by killing all we can. Then we have to go to the grey market to buy tools to help. Hell set up a FDA National Laser Act if you are that worried about it, but let us have tools that really work and not some neutered up bullshit. I’ll do some online laser training and register the damn thing in my name, no problem. ITAR or fear of technology leak is laughable with this technology. US Dealers saying they can’t sell me something like a LA-5 but pull up pictures of Iraq or A’stan and look at all the cool shit their police, security forces, and military have that you or I cannot. Knowing full and well probably 1/3 to 1/2 of it will end up or already is in terrorist hands. But John Q Taxpayer,nope. Too dangerous or he might sell it to the Chinese. Last time I checked my last name isn’t Clinton.
Rant Off..
True, legit (e.g. not previously in Uncle Sugar’s inventory) full-power Raptar-S units with full Applied Ballistics solver are extremely rare. This is one such unit — for any Alphabet fans — Notice CLEARLY that this was a factory DEMO unit.
100mW Illuminator baby!
Listen here thermal glutton... whatcha gunna use all that power on sinceyouwuz just a hatin' away on I2 products.
Compensation.
Just bonus bragging points on top of TracIR.
Not really all that impressive in light of the “old” Atilla that has had a 200mW illuminator for over a decade.
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True, legit (e.g. not previously in Uncle Sugar’s inventory) full-power Raptar-S units with full Applied Ballistics solver are extremely rare. This is one such unit — for any Alphabet fans — Notice CLEARLY that this was a factory DEMO unit.
100mW Illuminator baby!
YES!
FYSA, all the hardware between civilian power and full power is the same. It's made eye safe by a physical key that comes with the raptar kit and is supposed to be used for force on force training.
Are you saying the S/ES would have the same ability to go higher power through use of the key? The S/ES still lacks the switch positions of the S if that was the case but if the illuminator could be enhanced even slightly it would be nice.
RAPTAR - S ES
Precision for extremely long ranges. Features an applied ballistics solver, Infra-red (IR) laser, visible laser, IR flood & laser range finder (LRF).
www.hcctac.com
Is the image on that site incorrect? I was under the impression that the low power raptar was like a low power peq or holosun etc where there are high power settings that are at .7mw or whatever
If you zoom in on that particular unit the model states "Raptar-S". If you find a picture of the Raptar S/ES it is lacking the HP function positions in the picture posted above by The Horta.
Maybe the components aren't changed internally but there would have be a new switch put in , or a stop removed unless the S/ES has those detents and they operate the normal low power illumintor/laser. I would guess they keys are only useful if you had a full power unit and wanted to turn the volume down for training to remove accidental full power use.
Maybe the components aren't changed internally but there would have be a new switch put in , or a stop removed unless the S/ES has those detents and they operate the normal low power illumintor/laser. I would guess they keys are only useful if you had a full power unit and wanted to turn the volume down for training to remove accidental full power use.
Very interested in this key and the Es or s/Es models... anyone please contribute further knowledge or pm me. Thanks.
Nice scope, nice Raptar and I think you got your point across, but why in the world you would use subs at 255 yards while hunting deer is lost on me. One shot from a Barnes 110g Tac TX and that deer doesn't have to suffer.
To not alert / aggravate the neighbors?
If going pound might as well use a Creedmoor etc
Understood.
I still like using 300 blk because its short and light, especially if I am walking around for several hours in the dark carrying NV/Thermal and other necessities. YMMV, but I personally would put a humane kill above whatever I would need to sort out with my neighbors.
Wilcox likes to boast that “Unlike any current system in the field, the RAPTAR can be repaired, upgraded and expanded with emerging technology maintaining its edge for the life cycle of the product,” but aside from being repairable, has anyone heard of any units being upgraded or expanded with emerging tech? If this were actually true you would think owners of the original RAPTAR would be able to add functionality like the AB found in the RAPTAR-S. It’s not like people wouldn’t be willing to pay for it.
Because there were 7 houses and a fire department within earshot of that field. Why mess with peoples peace at night and risk a deputy having to ride out for nothing on a shots fired call when I accomplished the same goal quietly?
The deer died 200 yards from where it was shot. You cannot see it on the night vision, but with the head mounted thermal it was pouring blood down her front leg from the first shot. If that kill was inhumane, then we need to ban bow hunting, muzzleloader hunting, handgun hunting....
I can hear myself now...
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They do ban bow hunting with field points, you have to use broadheads, same concept as subs at 255y with less than reliable expansion. Carry on, you won't change my mind and I won't change yours. Nice shooting though, no doubt.
I just got mine RAPTAR without the AB module. I have no issue with that as I have a Kestrel Elite that I use for all my ballistic information. The Kestrel is easily viewable in the dark due to its NV compatible illumination.
It is really awesome having a weapon mounted LRF with FP capable lasers and illuminator that can be easily moved from rifle to rifle. It can serve many roles.
Nothing like it that I have seen for sale to civilians. I have no regrets with purchasing.
It is really awesome having a weapon mounted LRF with FP capable lasers and illuminator that can be easily moved from rifle to rifle. It can serve many roles.
Nothing like it that I have seen for sale to civilians. I have no regrets with purchasing.
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I lost 70 FPS from my muzzle velocity at 255 yards with the 190gr Sub X bullets. Every one I have shot something (deer or hog) with has pretty much deformed/slightly expanded at the tip, then tumbled leaving a pretty nasty oblong exit wound. Far cry from what a field point will do. Because you have such little velocity drop with aerodynamic subsonic bullets, their terminal performance is going to be pretty much identical at 25 yards vs 255 yards. It becomes a issue of placing that bullet where you want it. The RAPTAR allows me to do that.
I put up a steel target and did walk backs on it to 300 yards to verify the drop using the RAPTAR. I kept all shots within a 5" diameter. I am not trying to change your mind about anything. I do think it is absolutely silly for someone to insinuate that the distance I shot it at plays any role in that particular bullet's ability to kill when it is actually losing very little velocity from what it started out at. Hornady lists expansion on that bullet down to 900 FPS. I was well above that.
You are 100% right. I'll be honest, I never really paid attention to the lack of velocity change in these subsonic rounds and expansion velocity is expansion velocity, regardless of the distance. I learned something today and stand completely corrected. Looks like you actually did change my mind. Ive got some 194 Lehigh Defense rounds, maybe I'll give them a shot.
