Will iosso and nylon brush ruin barrel?

[bradworley]

Was watching an interview @Frank Green did with Erik Cortina about barrels. In the interview, Frank talks about abrasives with brushes ruining barrels.
My process is to use Wipe out on patch, let sit, then wipe out with a nylon brush. Clean patch, Then iosso on a nylon brush for about 10-15 strokes. Then clean patch.
This process works great for getting my barrel to bare metal... But am I damaging it?

 

[spife7980]

And as with everything: it depends

 

[smoothy8500]

Frank Green refers to the dangers of brass/bronze brush in combination with the more abrasive cleaners such as JB Bore Bright or Witches Brew.

 

[4O6shootist]

My cleaning agents: CLR, Eliminator, Cu2, Iosso, Thoroclean. After my hawkills get 200+ rounds, they rarely grab copper anymore. So clr gets rid any loose carbon, I let it soke for 30 mins in CLR to looses the stubborn carbon. I patch out the CLR, run bore cam, check for hard carbon deposit or rare copper build up. If no copper, I run a few soaked eliminator patches to lube barrel. Next is an iosso blue brush, wrapped with a patch with Thoroclean or Iosso applied. Throat area gets 20 strokes, whole barrel gets 20 more. Patch put with eliminator, and a few dry patches, then run scope. My barrels are usually spotless at this point. Non overbore cases get this treatment usually every 150-200 rounds, as the more overbore they get, it gets more frequent.

 

[bradworley]

Looks like if I wrap the nylon brush with a patch and then apply iosso I should be fine.

 

[Frank Green]

Patch around nylon brush. Any brush by itself take your chances.

I use a Parker hale jag and JB.

 

[Baron23]

Patch around nylon brush. Any brush by itself take your chances.

I use a Parker hale jag and JB.

I thought it was a Parker Hale and 40X? hahaha

Hope your day went well yesterday.

Cheers

 

[JAS-SH]

The answer is Yes! I too watched Frank and Erik's podcast. Quite informative. Frank is very knowledgeable.

I know abrasive polishes - have used them for decades on my cars' clear coats. Like Frank said, don't use them if you don't know how to and how they actually work. I wrote another post here where I tested J-B Blue label and IOSSO against my car polishes. I'll leave a link to that post below.

Three things affect the amount of material abrasive polishes remove. Four counting ignorance - the size of the abrasive particles, the quantity of particles in suspension and the composition.

Of those three the most important ones are composition, followed by particle size.

Composition: Most newer, advanced polishes use particles that DISSOLVE when the polish is applied - this is critical.

Particle size: The bigger they are the more time they take to dissolve. That's how they work. Think of sandpaper grits.

The beauty of polishers is that you can pick a specific a specific need and if you don't now which one to use - DON'T use them!

If you do use them do so only when absolutely needed. If you polished your vehicle's clear coat every time you washed it, pretty soon you'd have no clear coat left!

Frank mentioned Remington 40-X as a possible choice. I beg to differ on that one because the label states the abrasives are earth? That sounds to me like Diatomaceous Earth. That's a natural abrasive but as far as I know it does not dissolve. Definitely NOT for inexperienced users.

So far the best I've tested is B-J Blue label. In the description at Brownells site it says the past liquefies when used, sounds like a dissolving type but in reality it still leaves particles in the barrel. Read the instructions and follow them! I use a lot of oil on patches after using J-B to make sure all the abrasive particles left behind are removed.

I recently did use J-B - first time in years and have pictures of the before and after. It's not as strong as some people think. It's a long story but after watching the podcast I got curious and so, I went in the closet and got my bore scope.

I had never used it on my 6mm ARC bolt gun since new, now approaching 500 rounds. I did not like what I saw. I clean my rifle after each use. My clean rifle was covered in carbon from the carbon ring to 6-inces past that point. The rest of the barrel was clean with some minor brass streaking. I did 5 strokes (10 passes) with J-B on the affected area and got most but not all of the stuff out.

I now realize I got carried into this whole "new wave" of expensive nylon brushes and bore tech carbon remover trend. They obviously don't work!

So, from now on I'm back to what always worked for me. Bench Rest type copper brushes, Hoppes, and every few cleanings a thorough one including Remington Brite Bore and a copper brush. That stuff works like magic for me! With no abrasives....

Link to my post on abrasives:

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/how-clean-is-clean-enough.7102738/post-9989219

 

[4O6shootist]

My 6bra has 1200 hard rounds on, all match life or 12-20 shot drills on time. 105s at 2940fps with H4350, its a water safe load, but warm. I clean after every match or 150 rounds of practice w/ abrasives/clr/eliminator. I just checked lands today and my throat has moved 0.030 since new. That's more than a lot have observed. I have also had the barrel pretty warm on several occasion. There are 2 grooves that catch copper/carbon layering about 3/4 to an inch in front the freebore, that nothing else will clean out.

 

[MakeSawdust]

My 6bra has 1200 hard rounds on, all match life or 12-20 shot drills on time. 105s at 2940fps with H4350, its a water safe load, but warm. I clean after every match or 150 rounds of practice w/ abrasives/clr/eliminator. I just checked lands today and my throat has moved 0.030 since new. That's more than a lot have observed. I have also had the barrel pretty warm on several occasion. There are 2 grooves that catch copper/carbon layering about 3/4 to an inch in front the freebore, that nothing else will clean out.

That freebore movement is actually very good for that many rounds if you measured on a clean (as seen in borescope, not on patch) barrel. Most people will measure a new barrel squeaky clean and then measure after they cleaned once at 500 rounds and shot 600 more. There's so much carbon in there that the measurement can't possibly be accurate unless we are measuring with a Stanley fat max to the nearest sixteenth. They then claim that they have only lost .002" to throat erosion.

If you use the same bullet and clean to bare metal between measurements you will find .003 to .010 per 100 rounds of throat erosion in most 6mm cartridges. A 6 br will be around the .003 with a Dasher being .004 to .005. I also run a 243 AI with 115 DTACS at between 3050 and 3150 depending on a 26" or 28" barrel. Even though it is a pretty low pressure load with H1000 I still get .005-.007 erosion per 100 rounds. Damn is it a fun toy though. It takes a lot of wind before you have to leave the plate. In calm conditions, the consistency of the br cases will beat it, but add wind and distance and it will start to pick up some points.

All that to say, if measured correctly, there is a lot more throat erosion happening the people think.

 

[4O6shootist]

That freebore movement is actually very good for that many rounds if you measured on a clean (as seen in borescope, not on patch) barrel. Most people will measure a new barrel squeaky clean and then measure after they cleaned once at 500 rounds and shot 600 more. There's so much carbon in there that the measurement can't possibly be accurate unless we are measuring with a Stanley fat max to the nearest sixteenth. They then claim that they have only lost .002" to throat erosion.

If you use the same bullet and clean to bare metal between measurements you will find .003 to .010 per 100 rounds of throat erosion in most 6mm cartridges. A 6 br will be around the .003 with a Dasher being .004 to .005. I also run a 243 AI with 115 DTACS at between 3050 and 3150 depending on a 26" or 28" barrel. Even though it is a pretty low pressure load with H1000 I still get .005-.007 erosion per 100 rounds. Damn is it a fun toy though. It takes a lot of wind before you have to leave the plate. In calm conditions, the consistency of the br cases will beat it, but add wind and distance and it will start to pick up some points.

All that to say, if measured correctly, there is a lot more throat erosion happening the people think.

Always clean and scope. I never measured with same exact bullet, just another 105hyb. I talked to a guy who pretty much got the 6bra going stateside(hes cut hundreds of them) and he said the throat will barely move for 500 rounds, but then will start moving slowly. Compared to my mod400 6gt, this has fared a lot better as it had moved 0.110 in 2200 rounds when I pulled it.

 

[JAS-SH]

My 6bra has 1200 hard rounds on, all match life or 12-20 shot drills on time. 105s at 2940fps with H4350, its a water safe load, but warm. I clean after every match or 150 rounds of practice w/ abrasives/clr/eliminator. I just checked lands today and my throat has moved 0.030 since new. That's more than a lot have observed. I have also had the barrel pretty warm on several occasion. There are 2 grooves that catch copper/carbon layering about 3/4 to an inch in front the freebore, that nothing else will clean out.

Thanks for that information - much appreciated!

Having all that stubborn carbon in the first 6-inches of my barrel really got me going. So, for the past few days I've been doing a DEEP dive into what's going on in my barrel.

So first I read what everyone that is willing to talk about barrel cleaning regiments do and use. That didn't help because I could not find the specific cause and effect relationship I'm looking for.

Then I took the bull by the horns and did an even deeper dive into the chemistry related to the carbon forming process and what could be done to chemically remove the carbon residue. This because using abrasives often on barrels is not a good solution, unless you're fine with removing metal and changing the dimensions of the barrel, which abrasives will do when used often. The vehicle paint clear coat analogy applies.

Well, I have some answers now that I think will hold water. The residue in the barrel is coke - that seems factual to me. Coke is derived both from coal and petroleum. And after sending rounds down the bore I have some of both. That process is called coking. The petroleum (oil) part was my fault.

I have to put all this into words that make sense so I will start a new post when I do. AND, more importantly, I think I've found a possible solution by using methane hydrocarbon compounds which I have to test...

 

[CK1.0]

I still don't understand why guys use abrasives and borescopes when cleaning, and try to take their barrels back to bare metal... it's pointless and can only do more harm than good.

There's nothing one can attach to a cleaning rod or put on a brush that'll do more than a press-fit piece of copper and lead with tens of thousands of pounds of pressure behind it flying down the barrel will.

Removing the carbon fouling that builds up, which can and does affect MV, and if left unchecked, accuracy potential... makes sense. The other stuff, not so much.

 

[General RE LEE]

Go to Brownells and get VFG felt pellets and the 3 pellet adapter to apply JB Bore paste. Quick and easy vs wrapping a patch around a brush.

WEAPONS CARE SYSTEM PELLETS

WEAPONS CARE SYSTEM PELLETS https://www.brownells.com/tools-cleaning/gun-cleaning/cleaning-patches-mops/weapons-care-system-pellets/

www.brownells.com

 

[Frank Green]

The answer is Yes! I too watched Frank and Erik's podcast. Quite informative. Frank is very knowledgeable.

I know abrasive polishes - have used them for decades on my cars' clear coats. Like Frank said, don't use them if you don't know how to and how they actually work. I wrote another post here where I tested J-B Blue label and IOSSO against my car polishes. I'll leave a link to that post below.

Three things affect the amount of material abrasive polishes remove. Four counting ignorance - the size of the abrasive particles, the quantity of particles in suspension and the composition.

Of those three the most important ones are composition, followed by particle size.

Composition: Most newer, advanced polishes use particles that DISSOLVE when the polish is applied - this is critical.

Particle size: The bigger they are the more time they take to dissolve. That's how they work. Think of sandpaper grits.

The beauty of polishers is that you can pick a specific a specific need and if you don't now which one to use - DON'T use them!

If you do use them do so only when absolutely needed. If you polished your vehicle's clear coat every time you washed it, pretty soon you'd have no clear coat left!

Frank mentioned Remington 40-X as a possible choice. I beg to differ on that one because the label states the abrasives are earth? That sounds to me like Diatomaceous Earth. That's a natural abrasive but as far as I know it does not dissolve. Definitely NOT for inexperienced users.

So far the best I've tested is B-J Blue label. In the description at Brownells site it says the past liquefies when used, sounds like a dissolving type but in reality it still leaves particles in the barrel. Read the instructions and follow them! I use a lot of oil on patches after using J-B to make sure all the abrasive particles left behind are removed.

I recently did use J-B - first time in years and have pictures of the before and after. It's not as strong as some people think. It's a long story but after watching the podcast I got curious and so, I went in the closet and got my bore scope.

I had never used it on my 6mm ARC bolt gun since new, now approaching 500 rounds. I did not like what I saw. I clean my rifle after each use. My clean rifle was covered in carbon from the carbon ring to 6-inces past that point. The rest of the barrel was clean with some minor brass streaking. I did 5 strokes (10 passes) with J-B on the affected area and got most but not all of the stuff out.

I now realize I got carried into this whole "new wave" of expensive nylon brushes and bore tech carbon remover trend. They obviously don't work!

So, from now on I'm back to what always worked for me. Bench Rest type copper brushes, Hoppes, and every few cleanings a thorough one including Remington Brite Bore and a copper brush. That stuff works like magic for me! With no abrasives....

Link to my post on abrasives:

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/how-clean-is-clean-enough.7102738/post-9989219

Nice post!

I've used the 40x with no issues on how I use it. I also don't use it every single time as well.

Part of the problem with using abrasives I feel is that when a shooter cleans his gun with them they don't get it all out after using them. If you don't.... you might as well pour rocks down the barrel the next time you shoot it!

 

[xsn10s]

Plus one on using a jag with tight fitting patch and JB. Cleaned with solvent or Kroil to get the JB. Ken Waters wrote about using a patch vs brush decades ago. That's where I learned about it.

 

[xsn10s]

Sorry I'm not the best typist. I meant to say a tight fitting patch on a jag vs a brush with a patch while using JB.

 

[JAS-SH]

Nice post!

I've used the 40x with no issues on how I use it. I also don't use it every single time as well.

Part of the problem with using abrasives I feel is that when a shooter cleans his gun with them they don't get it all out after using them. If you don't.... you might as well pour rocks down the barrel the next time you shoot it!

Thanks. On another post above I mentioned that I made a huge mistake with my 6mm ARC bolt gun.

I oil my barrels for storage. On this particular gun I did not patch the oil out before shooting. The high temperatures of ignition caused the oil to begin a coking process. This process of oil coking and adhering to metals is well known in the oil business and is why jet turbines (high temperatures) use synthetic oils almost exclusively. In my case, the coking oil became mixed with the propellant's carbon creating a very thick and sticky hard carbon coke mixture that is almost impossible to remove without risking taking off some barrel metal.

So unfortunately, I could not remove all of the carbon on the barrel - mostly in the gaps where the lands meet the grooves, and only in the first 6-inches of the bore. What's left there that I could not remove will stay. All I can do now is to prevent more from forming on top of it.

Thankfully, the barrel is still shooting as good as new. The lesson? Never, ever, never leave oil in the barrel when you shoot it!

 

[MilSpecOkie]

What I picked up from that interview, and others, was don't use and abrasive on a bronze brush, especially one that doesn't rotate and follow the twist of the barrel. I've heard Frank talk about this on several occasions and he always points out the person who ruined the barrel had a cleaning rod that didn't rotate, or rotate properly, and the brush was going across the lands, not with them.

I don't use abrasives on a bronze brush. I have used Thorough Clean on a IOSSO nylon brush with a rotating cleaning rod and don't see any signs of it skipping across the lands.

 

[xsn10s]

The idea I read is if you use an abrasive on a brush/ patch it will follow the high spots and low spots inside the barrel. Used enough it could just make the low spots, or larger diameter areas larger. Where as a tight fitting patch on a jag pretty much stays the same throughout the barrel. That's the way I have done it over the past thirty years. Honestly I haven't measured the bore to determine if this is actually happening. It's something I read from Ken Waters and have been doing it ever since. My PSS is the rifle I have predomintly used JB from time to time. Honestly I haven't cleaned the bore on it in quite sometime and it still shoots sub .5 moa. Not bad for a 31 year old factory rifle.

 

[acudaowner]

I haven't seen one do anything bad , we also use ours with a bronze brush and a cordless drill and none of that has hurt anything so far .

 

[calling4life]

 

[CK1.0]

I was wrong. I wish I could jump back in time and slap myself for what I said in post #13, saying abrasives (and borescopes) aren't necessary... fuck that.

I'm a total convert to using a borescope every time I clean by barrels now, and have become a huge fan of Iosso on nylon brushes, or even better, patches with Iosso, wrapped around bronze brushes, with a little penetrating oil.

Using abrasives frequently (like every 100rds or less) seems like it would be too much and maybe cause damage... but when used like just another tool in the toolkit, and in moderation, while being able to actually watch/see your work (borescope)... abrasives are excellent for removing hard, baked-on carbon and I'd now argue exctly what one should use (sensibly).

 

[spife7980]

I was wrong.

 

[4O6shootist]

My findings with iosso and cleaning to bare steel: takes 5-10 rounds to stabilize velocity after strip clean. Shots 10 to 70-90 will hold velocity, but then it speeds up 30-50fps in the next 30-50 rounds. So velocity at 150 from clean jumps about 50-70fps. I have encountered this with 3 different barrels. My hunting rifles get cleaned with abrasives, as once fouled they may get shot 20-30 times a season. My match rigs get cleaned every 250-300 rounds with conventional methods, lots of clr to get carbon, and if I can't get it with clr, I've found thoroclean gets it, but it's not as aggressive as iosso paste. Now a clean barrel stabilizes velocity within 10-15 rounds from cleaning, but has held that same velocity for 300 rounds in my 3 match rifles. Different methods for different applications I guess. Just my experience, oh and a bronze brush don't do anything to your barrel.

 

[JAS-SH]

I was wrong. I wish I could jump back in time and slap myself for what I said in post #13, saying abrasives (and borescopes) aren't necessary... fuck that.

I'm a total convert to using a borescope every time I clean by barrels now, and have become a huge fan of Iosso on nylon brushes, or even better, patches with Iosso, wrapped around bronze brushes, with a little penetrating oil.

Using abrasives frequently (like every 100rds or less) seems like it would be too much and maybe cause damage... but when used like just another tool in the toolkit, and in moderation, while being able to actually watch/see your work (borescope)... abrasives are excellent for removing hard, baked-on carbon and I'd now argue exctly what one should use (sensibly).

I tend to agree with you- with caveats. I think Iosso is a great product. It's all about how you use these things. Example: If you have never used a high speed polisher on your car, and have no idea how to use it, you WILL ruin your clear coat, which by the way is 2 thousands thick.

Here's the deal, if you are a competition shooter then you need to use abrasives. Other people not so much. The reason is that they don't really care about barrel life and so they scrub and polish their barrels to like new condition - seems to work for them. The most important thing to them is to maintain a level of precision that is high enough to win matches - that's it.

Barrels are an expendable item, like bullets. In benchrest for example matches are sometimes won by less than a 1000th inch aggregate of 150 hots for a 3-gun contest. They ALL use abrasives...

Am I in that category? Certainly not right now. Competition shooters don't care about barrel life, they care about winning. And history in that business has shown that pristine clean barrels win matches. They clean every 5-10 shots!

That said, I own a custom 6mm ARC bolt gun. Super accurate from the get go. Now, after 1300+ rounds down the pipe it's spitting shots way off the "touching shots" rest of the group - consistently. It's either a primer switch, carbon or the barrel is done. So today I went to town on it with Iosso. Got everything perfectly clean except for the first 1.5 inches of the barrel - still being careful. Going out tomorrow to see if it was the primers or the carbon. Will update!

By the way, here's a video on how benchrest guys clean. Very informative. I find this to be a standard way to clean across the board for competitive shooters. And they pretty much all use exactly the same cleaning stuff: I use this method and products as well, except I don't use abrasives as much.

 

[JAS-SH]

I tend to agree with you- with caveats. I think Iosso is a great product. It's all about how you use these things. Example: If you have never used a high speed polisher on your car, and have no idea how to use it, you WILL ruin your clear coat, which by the way is 2 thousands thick.

Here's the deal, if you are a competition shooter then you need to use abrasives. Other people not so much. The reason is that they don't really care about barrel life and so they scrub and polish their barrels to like new condition - seems to work for them. The most important thing to them is to maintain a level of precision that is high enough to win matches - that's it.

Barrels are an expendable item, like bullets. In benchrest for example matches are sometimes won by less than a 1000th inch aggregate of 150 hots for a 3-gun contest. They ALL use abrasives...

Am I in that category? Certainly not right now. Competition shooters don't care about barrel life, they care about winning. And history in that business has shown that pristine clean barrels win matches. They clean every 5-10 shots!

That said, I own a custom 6mm ARC bolt gun. Super accurate from the get go. Now, after 1300+ rounds down the pipe it's spitting shots way off the "touching shots" rest of the group - consistently. It's either a primer switch, carbon or the barrel is done. So today I went to town on it with Iosso. Got everything perfectly clean except for the first 1.5 inches of the barrel - still being careful. Going out tomorrow to see if it was the primers or the carbon. Will update!

By the way, here's a video on how benchrest guys clean. Very informative. I find this to be a standard way to clean across the board for competitive shooters. And they pretty much all use exactly the same cleaning stuff: I use this method and products as well, except I don't use abrasives as much.

It was carbon! and Iosso did the trick

After the major cleaning and finishing with Iosso this was the result today:

 

[JAS-SH]

It was carbon! and Iosso did the trick

After the major cleaning and finishing with Iosso this was the result today:

In case you all were wondering this is the groups with the "spitting shots" sequence. Elevation was adjusted after the first group (left one).

 

[Ernest 5.56]

It was carbon! and Iosso did the trick

After the major cleaning and finishing with Iosso this was the result today:

How did you apply it and how many strokes?

 

[JAS-SH]

How did you apply it and how many strokes?

I used Iosso as per the cleaning video included in my earlier post. I put a good amount of Iosso on a patch and sent it down the bore. Then I used a 6mm Iosso "blue" plastic brush and applied as much of Iosso on it as it could hold (messy). Then 10-strokes on the whole barrel (in and out counts as 1 stroke) and then an extra 10 "short" strokes in the first 7 inches of the barrel closest to the chamber.

Clean the barrel as well as you can before Iosso and then add a small amount of cleaning oil with a patch - I use Kroil or Ballistol. Then use Iosso. Then remove every last bit of Iosso from your barrel, cleaning rod, rod guide and chamber (in case any of it got in the chamber) etc.

I normally use patch-out to remove the residue but this time I used lots of patches soaked with C4 (boretech) until they came out clean. Then a couple-three dry patches. The C4 suggestion came from another video I watched. C4 removes residual carbon that is mixed in with the Iosso (lots of carbon mixed in with that Iosso residue). You can use any barrel cleaner I guess. Oh, and clean the brush with something like brakekleen or lighter fluid so you can still use the brush for regular cleaning.

 

[MilSpecOkie]

I wish I knew how to forward/attach an email from a very nice lady at Iosso in response to a question concerning the abrasive they use. In brief, according to their statement, it is a very mild abrasive (small, round, comparatively soft particles ) that will not harm a barrel.

Cut and paste.

 

[cas6969]

"Thank you for your inquiry to customer service. Yes, our product will ruin your barrel, we would advise you not to use it."

 

[Ernest 5.56]

"Thank you for your inquiry to customer service. Yes, our product will ruin your barrel, we would advise you not to use it."

We recommend fire lapping with talcum powder!

 

[Ernest 5.56]

I wish I knew how to forward/attach an email from a very nice lady at Iosso in response to a question concerning the abrasive they use. In brief, according to their statement, it is a very mild abrasive (small, round, comparatively soft particles ) that will not harm a barrel.

Yeah but centerfire or rimfire?
Rimfire barrels are softer

 

[padom]

Yeah but centerfire or rimfire?
Rimfire barrels are softer

Rimfire barrels are softer?? Thats a new one. lol I guess they use different 416SS or something. LMFAO

 

[Ernest 5.56]

Rimfire barrels are softer?? Thats a new one. lol I guess they use different 416SS or something. LMFAO

That's what I heard in general ...since the round is much lower pressure than centerfire. Obviously not the truck axles people are purchasing here

 

[JerkyFreak]

1

...

I normally use patch-out to remove the residue but this time I used lots of patches soaked with C4 (boretech) until they came out clean. Then a couple-three dry patches. The C4 suggestion came from another video I watched. C4 removes residual carbon that is mixed in with the Iosso (lots of carbon mixed in with that Iosso residue).

How do you knoww there is lots of carbon mixed in with the Ilosso?

 

[spife7980]

1

How do you knoww there is lots of carbon mixed in with the Ilosso?

Where else do propose it would have otherwise gone?

 

[padom]

That's what I heard in general ...since the round is much lower pressure than centerfire. Obviously not the truck axles people are purchasing here

The round has nothing to do with how hard the barrel is...416SS is 416SS... the lead bullet is soft....yes

 

[jzerfoss]

The round has nothing to do with how hard the barrel is...416SS is 416SS... the lead bullet is soft....yes

While I agree it wouldn't make since to make rimfire barrels softer. The steel type isn't the only thing that determines hardness. Your example of 416 can be hardened to different hardnesses from it's annealed state. So technically "416SS" isn't just "416SS" when it comes to hardness or even quality.

 

[padom]

While I agree it wouldn't make since to make rimfire barrels softer. The steel type isn't the only thing that determines hardness. Your example of 416 can be hardened to different hardnesses from it's annealed state. So technically "416SS" isn't just "416SS" when it comes to hardness or even quality.

Metals can be hardened for sure.. but barrel companies aren't using different material for their centerfire vs rimfire barrels as far as I know...


@Frank Green

 

[jzerfoss]

Metals can be hardened for sure.. but barrel companies aren't using different material for their centerfire vs rimfire barrels as far as I know...


@Frank Green

I agree with that and didn't say that at all (and neither did the other guy). I only said that your example of 416 can be hardened and tempered to different hardnesses. Not all 416 is the same hardness or quality. Not saying that they do but I could totally see a low end rimfire manufacturer using the cheapest quality steel that they advertise and have it tempered to a lower hardness for less tool wear.

 

[padom]

I agree with that and didn't say that at all (and neither did the other guy). I only said that your example of 416 can be hardened and tempered to different hardnesses. Not all 416 is the same hardness or quality. Not saying that they do but I could totally see a low end rimfire manufacturer using the cheapest quality steel that they advertise and have it tempered to a lower hardness for less tool wear.

No he just blanket statement said "rimfire barrels are softer"....I said no they are not from the companies I've talked to...

 

[JerkyFreak]

Maybe I dont undestand your method correctly.

First you clean thoroughly without Ilosso, then you clean again with Ilosso and patch dry until clean, then you clean again with C4?

 

[Ernest 5.56]

No he just blanket statement said "rimfire barrels are softer"....I said no they are not from the companies I've talked to...

If you are paying for a custom barrel I'm sure it's probably the same as a centerfire barrel but if you are buying off the rack you can get a rimfire with a 1137 barrel. Whether that is soft enough to matter idk. The lore goes to in general brush rimfire sparingly and generally be careful bc the barrel material is softer than a centerfire.


· 12L14 resulfurized and rephosphorized steel (muzzleloaders only)
· 1137 & 1144 resulfurized steel (muzzleloaders only)
· 4140 chromium-molybdenum steel
· 416R & 410 martensitic stainless steel

 

[JAS-SH]

Where else do propose it would have otherwise gone?

Great definitive answer! But it's also a good question that JerkyFreak asked.

Just by running Iosso, or any other metal polish for that matter, your rag/patch, etc will turn dark. Even on the cleanest metal. It's called oxidation. That's how metal polishes work. Even the ones without abrasives in them.

And so, how can you tell besides using a borescope? Short answer, it depends. If you don't have a strong baseline on how you and your equipment shoot, or you have not ever seen what comes out on patches when you use abrasives, you wont. And even then a borescope might not help you.

Why? If you shoot a LOT and are really good at it you might be able to tell. Otherwise you wont. I'm good at it, not super but I meet those parameters. And I'm constantly working on this and know what my equipment and I can do. How else could I ever determine that my rifle had started to spit shots (post above)? Even then though I did not know the cause, I just knew it wasn't me.

If that's true of you too, then you CAN tell the difference - it's all about paying attention, keeping records and knowing when the rifle starts shooting worse than your ability to shoot. And remember, shooting is a perishable skill......

The best way IS by using a borescope. And there's the quandary... If you don't shoot competitively, and therefore don't shoot TONS of rounds through your barrel, then don't buy a borescope and don't use abrasive polishing products - just carry on and have fun!

The main reason that shooters put hundreds or thousands of rounds downrange a year, and do so with the directed purpose, is in order to improve shooting skills to a competitive level. Fun is always part of it, but custom rifles, custom reloaded ammo and lots of rounds downrange without a purpose is just a waste. Improving skills is more important.

If you just want to shoot some critters during hunting season and only shoot a box of ammo say once a month at best, then you don't need this stuff. Your skills will not really improve because of the round count alone and so you might not even be able to tell the difference if you do use the stuff. So don't sweat it! Be happy and enjoy shooting.

You wont shoot bugholes at 100 yards, but than again, anything inside 1 MOA is ALWAYS great shooting in my book! And you don't need abrasives to do that unless you shoot a LOT through your rifles every year, which I do...

 

[JAS-SH]

That's what I heard in general ...since the round is much lower pressure than centerfire. Obviously not the truck axles people are purchasing here

True. SAAMI states pressures for .22 long rifle is 24,000. That's half of that for an AR (52,000). Still, 24,000 is no joke. Most barrel makers doing stainless barrels specify the same steel for all of them, including rimfire.

 

[jzerfoss]

True. SAAMI states pressures for .22 long rifle is 24,000. That's half of that for an AR (52,000). Still, 24,000 is no joke. Most barrel makers doing stainless barrels specify the same steel for all of them, including rimfire.

Again type of steel does not alone determine hardness. With that said most barrel steel comes from the steel manufactures pre-hardened and it probably wouldn't make much sense to ask for 2 different hardnesses unless you're a giant maker who orders large batches. I've talked to Shawn at Hawk Hill several years ago about this topic and he said he's noticed a difference in hardness/cutting within one batch of steel because of the way it was tempered. Apparently, it was tempered in a large stacked batch causing the inside to heat and outside of the batch to cool at a different rate.

 

[FredHammer]

1. Wipeout or Shooters Choice foaming bore cleaner. Let sit 4-5hrs. Or overnight
2. Hit bore with alcohol soaked patch
3. Hit bore with alcohol soaked bronze brush 10 passes
4. Alcohol soaked patch out once, then dry patch dry
5. Soak patch in degreaser, K&N oil filter cleaner, patch out dry
6. Charge dry graphite into a patch till black. Hit bore with short and long strokes. Helps those first few round hit same POI.

 

[CK1.0]

However one chooses to apply their abrasive (Iosso, JB, etc), whether it be: on patches, on nylon brushes, on patches then wrapped around a slightly worn bronze brush wetted with penetrating oil (my current favorite), or any/all of the above... it's important to get it all out of there when you're done.

I use Boretech Eliminator to get most of mine out and then follow that up with patches of 99% IPA until it's literally squeaky clean.