Hunting & Fishing Will try muzzleloader for first time, any tips...

[stello1001]

Hello all,

My father acquired a muzzleloader some time back. It's been collecting dust in its original box. Unless I go out and use it, it's probably goingto remain where it is now. We have never owned or used one. I've done a bit of research. I think the way to load and use these is to first put the power, then the bullet, lastly the primer. That's probably just about as much as I know and I might be wrong. It is a Thompson Center .50 cal. I will post pictures of the stuff that he got it with. If anyone has any experience, please chime in and advise. I do not want to go out with it and kill myself haha.

Oh, before I forget...
The powder comes in 50 grain pellets. I'm assuming I need to load 100 grains meaning 2 of them per bullet or per shot. Whats the effective distance i can go out and use it? I want to see if I can kill a pig with it first. Maybe next season try to bag a buck with it. I don't know its effective range but probably won't shoot anything over 100 yards. Should I try practicing at 50 yards and see how it shoots at that distance?

Thanks...

 

[FatBoy]

I run a CVA Optima, similar inline setup. Some tips.

Have a tiny piece of wire to keep the flash hole clean

Pyrodex is filthy, make sure you clean every night you shoot. You may have to swab between shots but I use Barnes T-EZs so I can shoot 4-5 shot a day.

After you drop you two pellets in push the bullet/sabot all the way down, mark your ram rod. Make 100% sure it seats to this level every time. if it doesn't, the rifle will not be accurate.

Lube the threads on the breach plug, and keep the threads clean and lubed.

Take those TCs and shitcan them, or at least don't use them on deer. They don't expand worth of fuck. I killed two deer a couple years ago and it went in and out with zero expansion on a shoulder on both. They are accurate, but I think they need way more MV than 100gr provides. For a pig, why not. The extra hide and bone may have them working great.

That's pretty much it. I shoot a 4x Bushnell Legend and can hold under 1.5" groups at 100 yards. 130 yards is about as far as I'd shoot with a standard load. If your rifle can handle magnum loads, you can push that out further. I know guys shoot between 200 -250 but IMO the energy isn't there for the bullets to expand properly.

MLs are a lot of fun. I enjoy hunting with mine more than a centerfire. It forces you to wait for the shot and those big 45 cals in the shoulder out the spank on 'em.

 

[stello1001]

I run a CVA Optima, similar inline setup. Some tips.

Have a tiny piece of wire to keep the flash hole clean

Pyrodex is filthy, make sure you clean every night you shoot. You may have to swab between shots but I use Barnes T-EZs so I can shoot 4-5 shot a day.



Lube the threads on the breach plug, and keep the threads clean and lubed.

Take those TCs and shitcan them, or at least don't use them on deer. They don't expand worth of fuck. I killed two deer a couple years ago and it went in and out with zero expansion on a shoulder on both. They are accurate, but I think they need way more MV than 100gr provides. For a pig, why not. The extra hide and bone may have them working great.

Thanks for the information. I will definitely keep all this in mind.

First off, tiny piece of wire to keep the flash hole clean...
Can you elaborate a bit on this???

Since pyrodex is what I currently have, I will use it for now. You mention it's not the cleanest, any recommendations on how to clean or "swab between shots"???

Breach plug???

I apologize if I seem very uninformed. I just really am. I have never shot or even known anyone that shoots a muzzleloader.

Thanks...

 

[FatBoy]

The breach plug screws into the back of the barrel and holds the primer. Without seeing your exact setup, this is as good as I can explain it. The flash hole is where the fire goes through the breach plug to ignite the pyrodex. The plug unscrews for cleaning or safe unloading. Because Pyrodex is filthy, it can cover the hole after a few shots with caked powder. It cakes on the front of the breach plug where the powder sits. a piece of wire from a bread twist the is usually enough to clear it if you do it shortly after firing.

I clean with Hopper #9. If you clean between shots, a damp patch on the ram rod ran down and back usually is enough for cleaning between shots. That usually makes it easier to load with less chance of a jot ember lighting off the pellets when you drop them in, tbough I have never seen it happenm. The swabbing may not be needed BUT if you swab between shots, always swab between shots. It like making match grade rounds, the more consistent you do things shot to shot, the better the results will be.

 

[stello1001]

The breach plug screws into the back of the barrel and holds the primer. Without seeing your exact setup, this is as good as I can explain it. The flash hole is where the fire goes through the breach plug to ignite the pyrodex. The plug unscrews for cleaning or safe unloading. Because Pyrodex is filthy, it can cover the hole after a few shots with caked powder. It cakes on the front of the breach plug where the powder sits. a piece of wire from a bread twist the is usually enough to clear it if you do it shortly after firing.

I clean with Hopper #9. If you clean between shots, a damp patch on the ram rod ran down and back usually is enough for cleaning between shots. That usually makes it easier to load with less chance of a jot ember lighting off the pellets when you drop them in, tbough I have never seen it happenm. The swabbing may not be needed BUT if you swab between shots, always swab between shots. It like making match grade rounds, the more consistent you do things shot to shot, the better the results will be.

Just looked up a video on what a muzzleloader breech plug is. Everything you mentioned now makes sense. Definitely helpful info. One last thing though, when cleaning the flash hole which is on the front of the breach plug if I understand correctly, you do it by completely removing the plug correct?

 

[FatBoy]

yes, that's the easiest way unless TC sells a tool you can push into the primer pocket. It would have to have a TINY point to go though the flash hole . To be honest, I usually shoot 2-3 shots if I hunt a full day and I don't need to clean the flash hole but I have only hunted TN in late fall. Your situation may dictate a more careful regimens.

 

[stello1001]

yes, that's the easiest way unless TC sells a tool you can push into the primer pocket. It would have to have a TINY point to go though the flash hole . To be honest, I usually shoot 2-3 shots if I hunt a full day and I don't need to clean the flash hole but I have only hunted TN in late fall. Your situation may dictate a more careful regimens.

Thanks for all the information. I think I'm set and ready to get started.

 

[FatBoy]

they are fun and pretty easy. I zero for 100 yards and it's awesome from point blank to about 130, where it starts dropping fast.

There are scopes out there that have BDC reticles for muzzleloaders. You'll have to match the bullet and velocity, then verify the drop but it can make longer shots possible. Just make sure you have a bullet that will expand and impact velocity.

 

[stello1001]

they are fun and pretty easy. I zero for 100 yards and it's awesome from point blank to about 130, where it starts dropping fast.

There are scopes out there that have BDC reticles for muzzleloaders. You'll have to match the bullet and velocity, then verify the drop but it can make longer shots possible. Just make sure you have a bullet that will expand and impact velocity.

I'm starting to get excited already. Hopefully it stops raining so I can maybe go out and try and get a pig. I was thinking about keeping iron sights. If I go with an optic, I'm leaning more towards a low power optic. Possibly a 4 or 6 power for max mag.

 

[stello1001]

Changing the topic a bit from optics to bullets, I noticed what I have here are bullets that come with like a plastic cover. I did some research, I think these may be called sabots. Am I supposed to insert bullet in plastic and then insert all of that down the barrel to fire it that way?

 

[FatBoy]

I like tge 4x as I have good FOV in close and my furthest shot on our lease is 160 yards. No reason for 20x, and low ppwer is fast in timber.

Practice, and try a few different bullets and weights. Check TCs website and the owners manual to see if they have a recommended load. They are light but I consider the recoil to be close to a 243win, but slower. I can shoot it all day and my carry weight is only like 6#.

 

[FatBoy]

Changing the topic a bit from optics to bullets, I noticed what I have here are bullets that come with like a plastic cover. I did some research, I think these may be called sabots. Am I supposed to insert bullet in plastic and then insert all of that down the barrel to fire it that way?

Powder goes in the barrel. Bullet is set in the sabot. Bullet/sabot is pushed into the barrel with fingers. Ram rod pushed them down onto the powder. Open breach. Insert primer. close breach. aim at target. cock it. Deep breath, let out half. Press the trigger. kill whatever you're aiming at.

repeat

 

[natdscott]

If you load one, then take it out into cold weather, do NOT bring it back inside loaded. It either stays outside in the cold, or it gets fired and cleaned.

 

[Patton63]

My tip is don’t do it ... unless you want to become addicted. I swore off muzzleloaders for years without any real justification. But, then I took it hunting and knocked down my first buck. Muzzleloader season here is right in the rut, so it is some of the best hunting of the year. It is a blast. Good luck.

 

[stello1001]

Powder goes in the barrel. Bullet is set in the sabot. Bullet/sabot is pushed into the barrel with fingers. Ram rod pushed them down onto the powder. Open breach. Insert primer. close breach. aim at target. cock it. Deep breath, let out half. Press the trigger. kill whatever you're aiming at.

repeat

Perfect, my concern was in regards to the sabot and you cleared it up.

If you load one, then take it out into cold weather, do NOT bring it back inside loaded. It either stays outside in the cold, or it gets fired and cleaned.

Good to know, definitely something to remember, especially these cold times.

 

[FatBoy]

it literally takes 10 seconds to make it safe if you don't shoot it. Open breach. Pull primer. Unscrew breach plug and the powder falls out. Go inside, push the bullet out the breach hole. Clean and get ready to go back out. If there is a reason to not do this, I haven't heard of it. I never bring a loaded gun in the house except my carry pistols but now I'm curious now why to not bring it back in...

 

[natdscott]

Condensation + hygroscopic powders + polycarbonate tipped bullets + side lock = a major, major pain in the ass.

Inlines are easier, but it's still a hunt ender.

Smokeless inlines are even easier yet...

...but if it's not a hunt ender, it's only because you got damned lucky.

 

[Tucker301]

Sell it and find a used (no longer made) Savage smokeless muzzleloader, if smokeless is legal where you are.

 

[Maxduty]

Ditch the pellets. Find a charge it shoots best with.

 

[kraigWY]

During the last big drought, when primers and powder were scarce, I bought a TC inline. I had a ton of Shotshell Primers left over from my trap and skeet shooting days.

I found out those inlines were something else. Accurate, like shooting center fire rifles. I tried the storeboght sabets. Then used my cast 44 & 45 cal bullets. Just for kicks I bought a Lee 50 cal mold.

I discovered the cast 50 cal bullet, that I sized to .501 was the most accurate bullet in my TC, Heck of a lot cheaper then the factory bullet/sabet rounds.

My TC is labeled as a Magnum, taking 150 grns of powder or three 50 gr pellets. I found it shoots a lot better when I stick with 100 grns.

But as others have mentioned, it gets to you. I now have a 50 Cal. Hawkins repo Flintlock. Its a kick in the butt. I only use round ball with it, but I also found my 50 cal round balls (.490, the patch makes it 50 cal.) shoot quite well in my TC inline.

Also picked up a .44 cal Navy revolver. Already had a 36 cal Navy Revolver.

Best advise I can give is pick up a copy of Lyman's Black Powder Handbook and Reloading Manuel.

 

[chris112]

There should have been an owner/instruction manual in the box. If not contact TC about a replacement. That should answer all of your questions and get you started safely.

 

[JG26_Irish]

I am assuming that your TC is an in-line and will have a scoped sight? If not let us know. I am old-school and used a .50 cal flintlock with 42 in bbl and patched ball. I also, have a TC - hawken in .45 cal. Both are effective on deer sized animals. Both have only iron sights and both are capable of 2" groups at 100y. I would not count on any projectile expanding from a muzzle loader. The only advantage to the Sabot rds is it is lighter and thus going to shoot a little flatter and maybe extend your effective range from 100y out to maybe 150 or even 200y if you have a scope on it. The Thompson Center Maxi-ball is another heavy and very effective deer projectile. It is like the old Minnie ball of the day but lacks the hollow base. It is not going to expand but will shoot thru and thru whatever you hit with it. It is accurate in the TC rifles as their twist was made for them.

Clean the bbl after every use with hot soapy water, rinse, dry and lube it for storage. Before hunting snap about three caps on an empty chamber to blow out any crud or oil residue from the nipple. Load the rifle the same every time, seating the bullet the same depth. I used black powder and avoided the pyrodex pellets but either should be OK. FFg or FFFg worked good in both the 50 and the 45. 70-90g were by favorite loads. 70 in the flintlock and 90 in the caplock 45cal. Hawken. You can use more but it just gets blown out the muzzle onto the ground. Practice and don't flinch. Blow down the muzzle after each shot to clear any smoke or hot embers which might reside. Load only once per shot. A double load is deadly dangerous. My Dad and his friends all had identical Hawkens and once while practicing before season, my Dad loaded his and leaned it up while he put away his equipment. His best buddy grabbed the loaded rifle and loaded it again thinking it was his. Upon noticing that the ramrod was not going all the way down, he remarked about it and they figured out what happened. That was when things went bad. My Dad told his buddy, "You loaded it, you shoot it". His buddy started to do so and thought better of it and so, my Dad decided that he would shoot it. Not a good idea. Ball puller would have been a better move. Well at the last moment, he hesitated and instead of aiming he held it out with one hand and turned his head and closed his eyes before firing. The 2nd charge ignited about halfway down the bbl and predictably, blew up the gun like a grenade. Luckily it did not kill him. The gun was destroyed which TC replaced under their lifetime warranty. Lesson learned.

Keep your powder dry.

Irish

 

[alpine44]

What model is your TC?

My TC Impact (stainless/camo finish) shoots extremely well with Blackhorn 209 and .44 cal Hornady XTP bullets (240 or 300 grain) in the green Harvester crush rib sabots.

Blackhorn 209 is a nitro propellant formulated for muzzle loaders. It is not corrosive like traditional smoke pole propellants. You also get impressive speeds with BH209. It is not cheap but worth every penny, IMO.

With different charges for the cold bore and follow up shots, this combo puts 3 holes reliably in a 1" circle at 100 yards - after you get used to the mule kick. It does not matter whether that is 3 cold bore shots after cleaning or 3 subsequent shots.

After these encouraging results, I mounted a 3-9x40 Zeiss scope with a Rapid-Z 600 reticle that matches the bullet's trajectory perfectly out to 300 yards (6x magnification and using the lines at half distance. I.e. "6" line is 300 yards).



As pointed out above, modern muzzle loaders are addictive. I did not even bother with the rifle season anymore for the last 6 years in Maryland. The freezer was already full when rifle opened.

 

[Hookturnr]

I've been hunting blackpowder for a while now, currently shooting a 58 cal. TVM Virginia Pattern flintlock.

As for cleaning, in between shots swab with rubbing alcohol. It cleans up blackpowder better than anything else and dries quickly for your reload.

Once you're home for the day and have safely discharged your rifle, swab with alcohol until you get a clean patch, then run a couple patches with Bore Butter on them, you will thank me next time you load the gun!

After your final hunt for the season, clean with alcohol first, hot soapy water second then several patches with bore butter once it's dried out. Put some bore butter on a patch and coat all exterior surfaces that may be rust prone as well and you're ready for storage.

I have tried a ton of the commercially available cleaning solvents and none has done better than this. The key is to get it clean and make sure you coat all surfaces with bore butter. My guns have all been through the ringer weatherwise and still look and function like new.

As for leaving a charge in a gun overnight, I know two folks with holes in their houses that will never do it again...discharge into the ground and KNOW it won't happen to you.

 

[kraigWY]

Take some one with you when hunting. First deer I shot with an inline was in a group of about 8 others. After I shot, and the smoked cleared the deer were still standing around like nothing happen. I didnt see the one I shot fall (through the smoke) nor did I see any that ran off. I couldn't believe I missed and was about to leave but decided just to be safe, I would check for blood trails. Didnt fine blood trails but I did find the deer dropped right where it stood.

I dressed the deer and loaded in on my 4 wheeler while the rest of the herd stood by and watched, like it was natural to shoot their buddys and was no big deal.

Inlines are fun. Flintlocks are what I'm playing with now. Not use to a flash going off in my face just before the rifle fires. Ruins your follow through until you get use to it.

Black Powder is adicting. Lot of people like the idea of having a pistol that shoots the same bullet as their rifle. I have a 50 cal Hawkins flintlock so I bought a 50 cal flint lock pistol to go with it. I'm afraid a Muzzle Loading Shotgun will be next.

 

[alpine44]

I've been hunting blackpowder for a while now, currently shooting a 58 cal. TVM Virginia Pattern flintlock.

As for cleaning, in between shots swab with isopropyl alcohol. It cleans up blackpowder better than anything else and dries quickly for your reload.

Once you're home for the day and have safely discharged your rifle, swab with alcohol until you get a clean patch, then run a couple patches with Bore Butter on them, you will thank me next time you load the gun!

After your final hunt for the season, clean with alcohol first, hot soapy water second then several patches with bore butter once it's dried out. Put some bore butter on a patch and coat all exterior surfaces that may be rust prone as well and you're ready for storage.

I have tried a ton of the commercially available cleaning solvents and none has done better than this. The key is to get it clean and make sure you coat all surfaces with bore butter. My guns have all been through the ringer weatherwise and still look and function like new.

As for leaving a charge in a gun overnight, I know two folks with holes in their houses that will never do it again...discharge into the ground and KNOW it won't happen to you.

Solvents for blackpowder need to be water-based. Oil will not dissolve the corrosive salts. Rubbing alcohol is ideal as the water will dissolve the salts and the alcohol the grease from the patch or bullet.

As far as unloading is concerned, I sometimes put up a white cardboard at the furthest distance from my stand that is reasonable and safe. When the light fades to the point that game is no longer visible, I can still shoot the cardboard and confirm my zero. Two birds with one stone. Gun is empty and confirmed ready for the next day.

 

[300winemag]

Blackthorn 209 powder is great because when sighting in the rifle it gets easier to load the more you shoot it without cleaning between shots and is non-corrosive for a few days so you should fire a round then load to hunt so you are always shooting thru a fouled barrel. But do not use the same number of grains as the pellets, you need a volume measurer for the powder, and work up under manufactrer’s recommended loads. Any other pellets you should wipe every shot as mentioned, but don’t use a sloppy wet patch or better yet run a wet patch then a dry one so it doesn’t dampen the next pellets.

 

[alpine44]

H

Blackthorn 209 powder is great because when sighting in the rifle it gets easier to load the more you shoot it without cleaning between shots and is non-corrosive for a few days so you should fire a round then load to hunt so you are always shooting thru a fouled barrel. But do not use the same number of grains as the pellets, you need a volume measurer for the powder, and work up under manufactrer’s recommended loads. Any other pellets you should wipe every shot as mentioned, but don’t use a sloppy wet patch or better yet run a wet patch then a dry one so it doesn’t dampen the next pellets.

Here is one of my Blackhorn 209 "cartridges". It holds powder, sabot, bullet, and primer together and I have 5 of these in the stock pouch of my muzzleloader.

The primer holder is a rubber faucet washer that I taped (did not have matching shrink tubing at the time) on top of the orange plastic cap that came with the Blackhorn 209 vials.

The rings on the cap indicate that this vial is for the third loading. My charges are different for each shot, starting with a cold, clean bore. The subsequent loads need a little less powder to fly through the same hole as the barrel fouls and the increased resistance changes the pressure curve.

I actually weigh the powder on a scale since the volumetric equivalent differs too much IMO depending on how much you shake the vial. The "120" volume line on the Blackhorn 209 vials is about 83 grain by weight IIRC.

To clean the barrel after shooting Backhorn 209, I use Hoppes #9 or any other cleaner for smokeless powder. Water-based solvents, like the ones recommended for Black Powder, Pyrodex, Hot Whites, etc., will not work well for BH209.