Do I hope they survive? Yes
Do I think they will? Possibly
Do I think they're on par with the top scopes? No
Do I think they will? Possibly
Do I think they're on par with the top scopes? No
Rifle Scopes Will USO Survive???
- Thread starter sib1948
- Start date
And I would buy another Leupold before I bought another USO.
In two years I spent $15k on USO scopes/mounts.
They are all gone.
That might tell you something.
I was wondering where you were. Seems you jump in to every thread that mentions USO to throw in your 2 cents haha
I doubt they're going to go anywhere, but I've never really been a big fan.
I'm sure they have a following as I notice a lot of USO scopes in pictures here and/or from build specs. However, any USO I've ever had never really fit what I was wanting it to do within its realm of capabilities. I won't argue with the fact that they are probably the best built construction wise, but I was always underwhelmed by any USO I had and yet went back for more. The overall disappointment I had with the new 1-8 red dot was the last straw for me.
I'm sure they have a following as I notice a lot of USO scopes in pictures here and/or from build specs. However, any USO I've ever had never really fit what I was wanting it to do within its realm of capabilities. I won't argue with the fact that they are probably the best built construction wise, but I was always underwhelmed by any USO I had and yet went back for more. The overall disappointment I had with the new 1-8 red dot was the last straw for me.
I just checked out the new MINOX scopes on the Cameraland NY web page (really first class folks to deal with, been at it a long time), Hide sponsors too, this is what I found regarding the warranty:
Cameraland NY
MINOX Lifetime
Total Coverage Warranty
While every MINOX Riflescope is built to operate perfectly in the harshest environments and after enduring the roughest handling, uncontrollable, unexpected things can happen in the field which results in a damaged Riflescope. That’s why MINOX provides complete* no-fault warranty protection with every MINOX Riflescope: simply, MINOX will repair or replace any damaged MINOX Riflescope with no questions asked.
*Warranty does not cover fire, theft, loss, or intentional damage
I've read a few times by real experts in the field of International product liability, and European product liability laws that long warranties,( some say they can only offer "two years"
max,) aren't allowed in Europe. Is the old and well respected company of Minox breaking European laws and in danger of being jailed over offering the above warranty??? Or, is it just bull shit when people say European companies can't offer 10-20 year warranties, or even lifetime warranties. I'd like to hear from the International law experts on this. I'd hate to see all those employees of Minox going to jail.....
Cameraland NY
MINOX Lifetime
Total Coverage Warranty
While every MINOX Riflescope is built to operate perfectly in the harshest environments and after enduring the roughest handling, uncontrollable, unexpected things can happen in the field which results in a damaged Riflescope. That’s why MINOX provides complete* no-fault warranty protection with every MINOX Riflescope: simply, MINOX will repair or replace any damaged MINOX Riflescope with no questions asked.
*Warranty does not cover fire, theft, loss, or intentional damage
I've read a few times by real experts in the field of International product liability, and European product liability laws that long warranties,( some say they can only offer "two years"
max,) aren't allowed in Europe. Is the old and well respected company of Minox breaking European laws and in danger of being jailed over offering the above warranty??? Or, is it just bull shit when people say European companies can't offer 10-20 year warranties, or even lifetime warranties. I'd like to hear from the International law experts on this. I'd hate to see all those employees of Minox going to jail.....
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There's always a few out there that are vocal about their dislikes with USO but have always wondered why you don't see as many for sale on the optics for sale page. I browse that page often and seem to always see more NF, S&B's, SWFA's, Vortex, IOR's and a few others more so than USO's. Yes there are times that you will see a few USO's out there but not as much as say a S&B. So I ask, if S&B is supposed to be one of the holy grails with all its praise, then why so many for sale or are their numbers just that so much more on the market than USO? And one more ponder, with the following that USO has and the people that continue to purchase their product, why do they not sell as much of their purchases? With as much as USO gets bashed on by a few, one would think that all of the USO owners would be jumping to sell and "upgrade" to a different scope. Sometimes trying to read between the lines isn't as clear as it should be.
D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
Estimating is easy. The forum is a database and I searched thread title along with (any thread) and SOLD prefixes. any thread - sold = total advertised. :
Brand " ", sold, total advertised, sale rate
"Nightforce" 135/361 37%
"Vortex" 169/325 52%
"SWFA" 73/307 24%
"Bender" 41/159 25%
"U.S. Optics" 42/254 17%
How you want to analyze the data is up to you. With more time one could search a little deeper but I doubt the ranking will change. The method I used comes up with a nice sample frame.
Brand " ", sold, total advertised, sale rate
"Nightforce" 135/361 37%
"Vortex" 169/325 52%
"SWFA" 73/307 24%
"Bender" 41/159 25%
"U.S. Optics" 42/254 17%
How you want to analyze the data is up to you. With more time one could search a little deeper but I doubt the ranking will change. The method I used comes up with a nice sample frame.
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USO's dont last long in the classifieds. They tend to get snatched up pretty quick most of the time. Unless it is a super goofy combination of options (result of the endless options USO used to offer before they limited it to only the most popular/practical)
D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
After a couple years of hard use in training classes, matches, and practicing with my USO, the illumination started shorting out every other shot 3 weeks before a match. It was annoying because it would turn on and off every recoil. USO said they could get it back to me in time for me to zero it for the match. Then I asked how long it would take to install a internal bubble level. They fixed it, installed the level, and got it back to me with enough time to zero it. USO is not going anywhere.
What are you talking about?
I think too many people re confused about the whole 2 year s&b BS. S&b changed to 2 years for their own reasons. Europe laws says that you need a minimum of 2 years... Of course there is no max. The reason s&b replies by quoting the law is to mislead customers just like it did you and try to put blame on others... They chose to reduce warranty, No laws forced or even guided their hands. They now offer the minimum warranty allowed by European law.
I'm very surprised that people are not recognizing that for what it is and most are still confused on letting them off the hook because of them blaming European law. I have a newer s&b and it's definitely the clearest glass I have. However I'm currently at a point where I want to replace some lower end scopes and I want s&b but will probably not get it because of the warranty. If they don't believe in their product, I'm not dumb enough to either then.
Anyways, sorry for getting off topic, but that hole warranty debacle has hit a nerve.
I borrowed and used a rifle that had a 'nice' USO scope sitting on it. My personal experience was that it had by far the worst glass I have seen in a while. Worse than the 400 dollar Vortex that sat on my 22 at the time. Eye box wasn't great and neither was the parallax adjustment. Can't speak for the durability obviously. Anyways, it was so bad that I couldn't wait to give back the rifle as soon as I was done with using it.
Very limited view since it's just one scope, but it's just my experience with uso
I'll try to answer your question, "What are you talking about". I have read more than once, on this very board, "experts" discussing the European warranty laws, they have stated more than once, that in order to comply with European MFG regs/laws, that a warranty can't be longer than x amount of years, some "experts" claim 2 years, others 10 and as the world turns. If they are correct, MINOX is violating European law! I really don't think MINOX is violating European law, but rather some of the "experts" don't know what they are talking about, I refer to these guys as SHIT HOUSE LAWYERS. I noticed not one of the "experts" has chimed in with his/her vast knowledge on European law regarding what a mfg can and cannot offer as a warranty, therefore: I conclude most of those posting their "expertise" on the subject of European warranty law, are not experts, but rather complete dumb asses.
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I guess that I'm the poster child for USO. Ha Ha.
Dave, I'm just a consumer. I did speak to Jason and did pm Wes because he genuinely seemed interested in my USO experience, and he was a new guy (new position, had worked for USO on assembly?) at USO.
Gave him all the times, dates, problems, which he was able to confirm using USO's on file info.
He apologized and said that "USO isn't the same company it was a just year ago".
I doesn't matter anymore.
Wasn't there a sticky here about the ongoing changes at USO?
Didn't USO advertise here on the Hide? Where did the ad go?
I agree w Rob01, the more scope companies, the better. I don't want to see ANY US manufacturer go away.
But, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice… it isn't going to happen.
Agreed... I guess the "what are you talking about" was more of a rhetorical question... There is no truth to a limit on warranty. The law is to protect consumers from scammers selling garbage, by requiring a min 2 year warranty... Minimum is the key word.
S&B either purposely muddied the water on the forums about the law, to confuse people and keep them in a good light... Or just the fan boys and 'experts' did it for them.
They reduced the warranty because they were losing too much $$ fixing scopes (scopes that have been rumored to be lower in quality and reliability as of late) or the management decided to line their pockets further by cutting benefits. Neither of which are noble causes or examples of them just trying to abide by laws.
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USO is #1 in build QC, service & bringing proven product to market... The kind of shop that exemplifies "Made in America".
I have several USO's. All of them are almost identical, SN3 ERGO, 3.8-22x58mm OBJ, 35mm tubes, EREk knob, push button lit and my own reticle. I have not had a single issue with any of them. All of them get used and have been on and off several guns/actions. Again all three have been perfect. That being said I personally felt like the forgiveness of the ERGO parallax adjustment, less moving parts, less glass, etc. gave them an edge and separated them from most of the competition. It really disappointed me to see that option go away. Now that I can't get the same scope, it will be really hard for me to get a TPAL, especially with all of the new optics choices out there.
Every time I have had a warranty issue with my USO scope, they have always taken care of things right away without a bunch of BS finger pointing. Rock solid company!
Personally, I didn't see it that way. The OP's question was exactly what I expected to see when I opened this thread. Back when I first got into this type of shooting it seemed like USO had a real strong following, and was talked about a lot. I had a chance to shoot with one of their scopes for a day, and I was impressed with it. I couldn't say whether I'd be more or less impressed today, with years of shooting other high-end optics since that time. Still, I'm sure they make a fine product.
But, as time goes on I've noticed that I've heard less about them when compared to other players at this level.
I've got nothing against USO, and nothing really for them at this point. Simply put, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I really don't hear much about them these days. It could just be dumb luck that most of the shooters I know are running something else, or perhaps I just didn't have them on my radar. Regardless, I don't think the OP should bear the troll brand just for asking that question.
The truth is USO has doubled production and sales over the past 24 mo. The reason you may be hearing less on this site is that their focus has been on increasing dealers nation wide, with success. They will always offer end users custom scopes as that was their original niche market. In fact they are offering individual dealers region specific customization since dealers across the country have told them that certain specific specifications sell better in those ares.
Its fair to say that USO paved the way for many of the optics companies, as well as many of the advances and features we see from all the major companies today. They listened to their customers and the industry when all other optics manufacturers did not. Its much easier for a large company to duplicate success and make things better, that's what we see today. There is always a ebb and flow in popularity, when I started many years back, USO was THE scope to own.
USO is still a relatively small company, but they are strong.
USO is still a relatively small company, but they are strong.
I didn't take the OP that way either.
I started reading here in '05/'06 and bought a TRG-42 338LM and SB PMII in January of '06. When I got that combo, there weren't a lot of choices and SB, Zeiss, IOR Swarovski, USO, Leupold and NightForce were all the big players. Hensoldt wasn't readily available in the US at that that time, Zeiss and Swarovski were mostly in hunting configurations, Bushnell was middle tier, March was really only known in smaller circles and IOR was doing some interesting things, but had that whole 'Romanian vibe' going.
Then came the rush of new players--mostly the Premier Heritage, Vortex line and Hensoldt started being imported. Things seemed to gravitate towards those brands and USO seemed to lag a bit in 'popularity,' it seemed to me, not withstanding their core fanboys.
Then we had this most recent wave with Bushnell getting on board, IOR expanding, Leupold innovating, Steiner coming on strong and a few others like Tangent Theta and it still seems to me, that USO is standing in the wings, but I have no sales data to make a solid claim of this.
I wish them well. I like the company because back when I got my SB, JBWIII decided to do a special run of 100 sunshades with ARDs inside and I was able to buy one, since SB wasn't really making them. I though that that was pretty cool that a competitor would help out a part of shooting community that wasn't using his product in the first place.
I still have the scope and the SS and I'll always have a soft sport for USO because of that. I thought it was a pretty classy act.
Chris
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