Sidearms & Scatterguns Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

It's pretty well known that the LB's are shipped tight. Not a practice that I'm a fan of, but in my experience, they've always shot in very well (without any file strokes) and have been as reliable as any other. The LB's are certainly not what I would regard as a bad choice....

 

[Downzero]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gpo1956</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. My actual experience owning and shooting these guns leads me to a totally different conclusion. I guess the two guys that left Les Baer and built RRA's 1911s for them really did invent a better mousetrap. Something, apparently, LB still hasn't learned to do. </div></div>

Just out of curiosity, what kind of recoil spring do you run, what kind of ammo, and how many rounds do you get out of a new spring?

I only ask because I suggested to the most recent culprit that he install a heavier recoil spring or at least a new 16 lb. one.

My gun runs all day with a 14 lb. spring, but it's got quite a few rounds on it. I also insist on having a full length guide rod, which I suspect will come with mixed reviews here.

Mike,

I didn't mean to suggest that they'd be a bad choice, just perhaps not my ideal choice given the options at their price point.

 

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike,

I didn't mean to suggest that they'd be a bad choice, just perhaps not my ideal choice given the options at their price point. </div></div>

I didn't take it that way Dude

, just a general comment.

BTW, I went a different route on the 2011. Wasn't quite satisfied with a few things, so I have my own 1911 frames/slides now. I'll be introducing the 1911's under my new name (more details on this later) within the next month.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike,

I didn't mean to suggest that they'd be a bad choice, just perhaps not my ideal choice given the options at their price point. </div></div>

I didn't take it that way Dude

, just a general comment.

BTW, I went a different route on the 2011. Wasn't quite satisfied with a few things, so I have my own 1911 frames/slides now. I'll be introducing the 1911's under my new name (more details on this later) within the next month. </div></div>

I'm really looking forward to seeing them.

Whatever our differences on the forum, consider them solved.

I'm still more than happy to test any of your products and/or volunteer my guns for services that you want to test in the field if you're interested, just feel free to PM me. I've been shooting a lot of single stack lately, also, so it'd be really useful.

Also, if you can produce a 1911 that has the features of the Baer that is reliable at his price point or somewhere in that range, I'll be glad to advertise your product out there, as I'm sure I know plenty of people who would be interested in such a product.

The problem with the 1911 market, as I see it, is that it is saturated with utter crap. There are decent guns at almost every price point, but they're almost always missing one feature or another that makes for an amazing gun. At this point, I've settled on doing as much of my own gunsmithing as I can, because a lot can be done with a $6-800 1911 if you're willing to do some of the work yourself (fitting ambies, changing sights, trigger job, etc.).

 

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike,

I didn't mean to suggest that they'd be a bad choice, just perhaps not my ideal choice given the options at their price point. </div></div>

I didn't take it that way Dude

, just a general comment.

BTW, I went a different route on the 2011. Wasn't quite satisfied with a few things, so I have my own 1911 frames/slides now. I'll be introducing the 1911's under my new name (more details on this later) within the next month. </div></div>

I'm really looking forward to seeing them.

Whatever our differences on the forum, consider them solved.

I'm still more than happy to test any of your products and/or volunteer my guns for services that you want to test in the field if you're interested, just feel free to PM me. I've been shooting a lot of single stack lately, also, so it'd be really useful.

Also, if you can produce a 1911 that has the features of the Baer that is reliable at his price point or somewhere in that range, I'll be glad to advertise your product out there, as I'm sure I know plenty of people who would be interested in such a product.

The problem with the 1911 market, as I see it, is that it is saturated with utter crap. There are decent guns at almost every price point, but they're almost always missing one feature or another that makes for an amazing gun. At this point, I've settled on doing as much of my own gunsmithing as I can, because a lot can be done with a $6-800 1911 if you're willing to do some of the work yourself (fitting ambies, changing sights, trigger job, etc.). </div></div>

No worries, just a temporary setback. Rigid flexibility on this end

....

Not to hijack this thread, but the problem I'm seeing with the 1911 part of the industry is it's being treated a lot like the AR market. I contribute that to the anniversary, but our 1911's will be just as high quality and precise as our rifles. We can talk off-line at some point and I'll give you a few details....

 

[Nomad Farrier]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

Ok so does anyone have anything to say about the Ed Browns? I've heard very little about Browns compared to the other 3. Good or bad let's hear some stuff.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike,

I didn't mean to suggest that they'd be a bad choice, just perhaps not my ideal choice given the options at their price point. </div></div>

I didn't take it that way Dude

, just a general comment.

BTW, I went a different route on the 2011. Wasn't quite satisfied with a few things, so I have my own 1911 frames/slides now. I'll be introducing the 1911's under my new name (more details on this later) within the next month. </div></div>

I'm really looking forward to seeing them.

Whatever our differences on the forum, consider them solved.

I'm still more than happy to test any of your products and/or volunteer my guns for services that you want to test in the field if you're interested, just feel free to PM me. I've been shooting a lot of single stack lately, also, so it'd be really useful.

Also, if you can produce a 1911 that has the features of the Baer that is reliable at his price point or somewhere in that range, I'll be glad to advertise your product out there, as I'm sure I know plenty of people who would be interested in such a product.

The problem with the 1911 market, as I see it, is that it is saturated with utter crap. There are decent guns at almost every price point, but they're almost always missing one feature or another that makes for an amazing gun. At this point, I've settled on doing as much of my own gunsmithing as I can, because a lot can be done with a $6-800 1911 if you're willing to do some of the work yourself (fitting ambies, changing sights, trigger job, etc.). </div></div>

No worries, just a temporary setback. Rigid flexibility on this end

....

Not to hijack this thread, but the problem I'm seeing with the 1911 part of the industry is it's being treated a lot like the AR market. I contribute that to the anniversary, but our 1911's will be just as high quality and precise as our rifles. We can talk off-line at some point and I'll give you a few details.... </div></div>

I agree with you. The 1911 is not a plug and play design. I think with a good CNC shop, you could turn out some damn nice 1911s for $1200 or so, and they'd sell like crazy. Obviously the true customs will have to go up from there.

Not sure if you still have my number or not, but it's the same if you're looking to get a hold of me.

 

[Asiparks]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

Hey Oregon shooter, I've examples of each, Brown, Baer, Wilson, NH, Springfield Pro, a sprinkling of others.....If you want to try some out, you have ammo and you can get to the Clack Sheriff's range then PM me

New Baers can be had from about $1700, a large chunk less than any of the others and it gives up nothing in terms of functionality other than a fragile finish. The Browns are (much) better finished, Springfield Pro is great but just comes in one flavor ( and you'll be lucky to find one anywhere), the Wilson is great but offers nothing for the extra $$$.

You might consider buying something like a stainless DW Valor, shooting the crap out of it then sending it off for some custom touches. You'd likely end up with a high quality personalized gun for under $2200...

 

[gpo1956]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: asiparks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Oregon shooter, I've examples of each, Brown, Baer, Wilson, NH, Springfield Pro, a sprinkling of others.....If you want to try some out, you have ammo and you can get to the Clack Sheriff's range then PM me

New Baers can be had from about $1700, a large chunk less than any of the others and it gives up nothing in terms of functionality other than a fragile finish. The Browns are (much) better finished, Springfield Pro is great but just comes in one flavor ( and you'll be lucky to find one anywhere), the Wilson is great but offers nothing for the extra $$$.

You might consider buying something like a stainless DW Valor, shooting the crap out of it then sending it off for some custom touches. You'd likely end up with a high quality personalized gun for under $2200... </div></div>

About as good a post as I've read, and spot on to my experiences. I personally like Ed Brown thumb and grip safeties, so I'm partial to his guns. the Baer is, in my opinion, the very best bang for the buck out of all of them. Being from Arkansas, I've been to Wilson's many times (and I've visited Nighthawks too). I've owned probably 10 or 12 of their guns. Very good guns, but as noted above, they are wildly overpriced to me. Good guns, good parts and and good (but spotty) service but you have always paid a premium for the Wilson name.

Downzero, I have always run 16 lb springs in all my 1911s.

 

[Nomad Farrier]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

Asiparks,
That is an impressive picture on your post. I'm drooling.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

wow that is impressive

 

[Nomad Farrier]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

Big Joe,
I've been going through your list of pistolsmiths you posted and I have been drooling over Rogers work. Have you ever seen his work in person? Is it as nice as it looks on the web? Also has anyone seen a full size 5" 1911 with a bobtail?

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

yes it most definately is, a commander of mine is goin to him. bad thing is he is no longer accepting full builds. i know he will do machining though so you'd have to contact him and see what he is willing to take on. Rogers is knows as one of the best machinists in the world for 1911's. although as you can see if you go through tat list there are a few good smith's. I pretty much listed the top of the top so you'd be hard pressed to go wrong with any of them.

 

[Asiparks]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

here's a 5" bobtailed Kimber Super Carry that I used to own:

this Ed Brown isn't mine, but I wish it were:

 

[Nomad Farrier]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

ahhh Im drooling-

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

This one is mine and my EDC. Since this pic was taken I took it all the way down and bead blasted the SS and duracoated the slide and aluminum grip panels.

Second barrel and bushing in pic is a 400 CorBon that was ordered and fit with the pistol along with a spare (pre fit) extractor not shown.

Also should note this pistol is over 10 years old, notice the frame is a Les Baer as he used LB frames back in the day for full custom builds so its a Brown Bear

 

[Lofty]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

I say have one built. You don't have to pick a big name like Yost, Rogers or Chen.....you are going to pay a massive premium for the name.

I just had Bob Howard from Predator Custom build one using parts I picked based on what I wanted......sledgehammer style reliability. I wanted a fighting 1911 and he delivered undeniably.

The kicker is not only did I get a beautiful gun built from (what I feel) are the best parts money can buy, I got it all done for half what the same gun from Heirloom or comparable company would cost.






Caspian Race Ready frame, Caspian slide.

10-8 Parts- grips, sights, slide release, trigger, recoil spring plunger.

EGW Parts- Ultimate trigger kit, single sided safety, hammer strut, pin set, HD extractor, firing pin, barrel bushing.

Nighthawk Parts- barrel, grip safety.

Wolff Springs.

 

[saryan]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

I would recommend Kevin Toothman from US Shooting Academy. He uses Caspian blank slides and does all the custom fitting. Its a custom gun from a guy that shoots. Mike Seeklander shoots his 1911's and his Limited 2011's. He uses all the good parts and has great reviews online. I am bias though. He is my gunsmith as well. I have shot almost all the semi customs and its night and day difference between a semi custom 1911 and a true custom build.

 

[Asiparks]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">........
I just had Bob Howard from Predator Custom build one using parts I picked based on what I wanted......sledgehammer style reliability. I wanted a fighting 1911 and he delivered undeniably.

The kicker is not only did I get a beautiful gun built from (what I feel) are the best parts money can buy, I got it all done for half what the same gun from Heirloom or comparable company would cost.

</div></div>

point well made, that is rather lovely !

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

Lofty, that is a really nice pistol. I'm going to have to look up Predator Custom while I'm home.

 

[swage]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: asiparks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Oregon shooter, I've examples of each, Brown, Baer, Wilson, NH, Springfield Pro, a sprinkling of others.....If you want to try some out, you have ammo and you can get to the Clack Sheriff's range then PM me

New Baers can be had from about $1700, a large chunk less than any of the others and it gives up nothing in terms of functionality other than a fragile finish. The Browns are (much) better finished, Springfield Pro is great but just comes in one flavor ( and you'll be lucky to find one anywhere), the Wilson is great but offers nothing for the extra $$$.

You might consider buying something like a stainless DW Valor, shooting the crap out of it then sending it off for some custom touches. You'd likely end up with a high quality personalized gun for under $2200... </div></div>

I see an Ed Brown in there I think also......

 

[Asiparks]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

yup, there's a couple, a Brown Kobra (the stainless one with the scale serrations), and an Executive Elite (all black 1/2 way down the right with the silly name)

 

[Lofty]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Lofty, that is a really nice pistol. I'm going to have to look up Predator Custom while I'm home. </div></div>

http://www.predatorcustomshop.com/


Ask for Jim, he's the owner.

I would put Bobs work up there with just about anyones when it comes to building a custom 1911. He exceeded my expectations wildly on this one. I've either owned or have shot extensively all the big name semi custom guns. This gun is hands down the best 1911 I have ever owned or shot.

There are certain hard to quantify tactile attributes that things of suburb quality exude when you handle and manipulate them. High end timepieces, exotic Italian sports cars, ne plus ultra audio equipment. You can't always put your finger on exactly what it is.......you just feel the quality, the craftsmanship.


That's what a truly custom 1911 gives you. It's gives it on a much higher scale than any semi custom gun can. When you grab the gun, feel the snick of the safety, when you disengage it, how the grip safety curves and blends with the frame, when you do a press check. It's just feels right and inspires confidence.


Bob delivered that but on a budget that normal people can afford and won't force me into making the gun a safe queen cause I'm scared to shoot it and in a time frame where I was young enough still to actually enjoy it. Most custom smiths at Bobs level have 2-3 year waiting periods.

His rifles are every bit as nice as well.

 

[3PER]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

 

[Kaisersose]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

owned Tripp, Baer, Wilson, Clark/Yost combined, Mike Kontas, EGW

I only regret selling my Baer SRP para high capacity and Mike Kontas spelling full build.

The baer's shot the best to me, but I must say they are all are very nice. I have owned Wilson's from different time frames, and think the pistols he built himself on colt's with barsto barrels shot the best ,versus complete guns

 

[Kaisersose]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

forgot to post, most of my Baer pistols I ownly paid around $1300 used or new back in 2001 tops, another reason I have owned more of them, than the $1800 plus Wilson pistols.

Had a Rock River Super match, that was super nice, but supposedly they are built by brother that left Baer??

Nighthawk is supposedly built by former Wilson Combat employees??

Just what I heard

 

[VKC]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

I've shot both Wilsons and Ed Browns 1911s. I've handled Les Baer, but not Nighthawk, so I can't comment on them.

I personally like Wilson's the best and own 2 of them. They shoot reliabily and very accurately. The tolerance, fit, and materials are great.

But IMHO, the best "value" out there today that I'm aware of is the S&W E-series 1911s.

 

[rogerschrisj]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why not go through a individual gunsmith? Dave Berryhill, Harrison, Yost, Rogers, Morrison, etc? get exactly what you want? just saying </div></div>

I'm not taking anything away from the four mentioned in the subject line as they are fine pieces, but if want top of the line, you want full custom, not semi-custom, and that means get to know your smith by first name and have him build what YOU want. </div></div>

What if you want a full custom but don't have the advantage of knowing any smiths on a first name basis?

 

[Falar]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

Disappointing to see that some people have still had bad experiences with customs in this price range. Lately I have been thinking of selling one or two guns to finance a Nighthawk as I've never owned a 1911 that cost more than $1000. After seeing that some of the guns in this price range still have issues I guess the bug is pretty much gone. All I want is something that is 100% reliable and shoots to POA, I could care less about the fancy stuff or whether it is 1" or 2.5" @ 25m. I can't shoot that well with a pistol anyway. I would be happy with a 6" group at that range freehand. Tripp is less than 2 hours away, maybe I will just send him a new Series 70 Colt to de-MIM, rebarrel and install longer lasting internals.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I want is something that is 100% reliable...</div></div>

Better stick to revolvers. The odds are better.

 

[Falar]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I want is something that is 100% reliable...</div></div>

Better stick to revolvers. The odds are better. </div></div>

Not really, I've fired plenty of dirty ass revolvers where the cylinder locks up in either the front or the back from carbon build up. When I say "100% reliable" I mean something that is on par with the modern pistol designs, and with all ammo types and all quality magazines. With the $1000 guns you see plenty of "my gun is 100% with brand x ammo and brand y magazine but hiccups on z" and IMO there is absolutely NO excuse for that on a $3,000 handgun.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> With the $1000 guns you see plenty of "my gun is 100% with brand x ammo and brand y magazine but hiccups on z" and IMO there is absolutely NO excuse for that on a $3,000 handgun.</div></div>

A Porsche will handle better on Firehawk SZ50s than Cooper Trendsetters.

One of life's truisms: "No one gets them all right."

 

[Arbiter]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I want is something that is 100% reliable...</div></div>

Better stick to revolvers. The odds are better. </div></div>

Not really, I've fired plenty of dirty ass revolvers where the cylinder locks up in either the front or the back from carbon build up. When I say "100% reliable" I mean something that is on par with the modern pistol designs, and with all ammo types and all quality magazines. With the $1000 guns you see plenty of "my gun is 100% with brand x ammo and brand y magazine but hiccups on z" and IMO there is absolutely NO excuse for that on a $3,000 handgun.</div></div>

So there's no excuse for, say, a GAP or an AI to shoot 3 MOA if you put Wolf in them?

The system is only as good as its lowest-quality component...

 

[Falar]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Arbiter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I want is something that is 100% reliable...</div></div>

Better stick to revolvers. The odds are better. </div></div>

Not really, I've fired plenty of dirty ass revolvers where the cylinder locks up in either the front or the back from carbon build up. When I say "100% reliable" I mean something that is on par with the modern pistol designs, and with all ammo types and all quality magazines. With the $1000 guns you see plenty of "my gun is 100% with brand x ammo and brand y magazine but hiccups on z" and IMO there is absolutely NO excuse for that on a $3,000 handgun.</div></div>

So there's no excuse for, say, a GAP or an AI to shoot 3 MOA if you put Wolf in them?

The system is only as good as its lowest-quality component... </div></div>

When did I mention accuracy? Inaccurate ammo is inaccurate ammo, no weapon can overcome that. A GAP that jammed when using certain brands of ammo would be pretty piss poor though. I'm not talking about steel cased shit either, anyone who uses that and expects great results is delusional. I'm talking about pistols that run Federal AE, but not WWB. Or it will feed 230gr Gold Dots but not 230gr HSTs. It will run on CMC mags but not Wilson. etc etc. I'm not talking about guns that don't run on Promags and Brown Bear/Tula.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

They're mechanical objects. Sometimes, things just don't mix. About 40 years ago, my Dad had a lawnmower that would not run on anything but Amoco premium white gas (that was before it was called unleaded). No reason, just the way it was.

If anyone thinks buying the best or highest priced anything will eliminate the possibility of failure, they're in for a rough time. Buying from reputable makers will decrease the odds of failure. If a guy is happy rolling the dice on lower end products, that's his business.

 

[Arbiter]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

When did I mention accuracy? Inaccurate ammo is inaccurate ammo, no weapon can overcome that. A GAP that jammed when using certain brands of ammo would be pretty piss poor though. I'm not talking about steel cased shit either, anyone who uses that and expects great results is delusional. I'm talking about pistols that run Federal AE, but not WWB. Or it will feed 230gr Gold Dots but not 230gr HSTs. It will run on CMC mags but not Wilson. etc etc. I'm not talking about guns that don't run on Promags and Brown Bear/Tula.</div></div>

Plenty of people consider WWB to be low quality, but then again my Kimber Warrior runs just fine on it. Generally it's fairly rare to see a specific hollowpoint jam up a 1911, but it happens - just like every other gun out there.

Name a handgun, and I'll be able to cite cases where it's failed out-of-the-box to function. Beretta, Sig, HK, Colt, Kimber, Ruger, Glock, Springfield Armory, you name it. <span style="font-weight: bold">All of them will fail</span>. And for that matter, I've seen bolt guns jam up on certain loads for no apparent reason - again, not common, but it can happen.

The difference, as pointed out above, lies in the likelihood that any given random pistol will be a lemon.

 

[chalwie]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Or it will feed 230gr Gold Dots but not 230gr HSTs. </div></div>
My Wilson Elite failed on Federal HST's. I knew it was a piece of sh_ite; better call Customer Service and return it.

Or perhaps that's why every new gun requires as much rounds through it as one can afford. Only after 1000's of fail free rounds of "X" brand ammo through "X" brand gun, can one count their life on that combination. All guns have favorite as well as troublesome ammo - even specimens of the same brand/model guns may have different ammo that performs well.

 

[FX44]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

All 4 have stellar reputations. I went with Wilson for the good reputation of customer service. Their guns have a lifetime warranty that follows the gun not the buyer. I have a used (5 yr old) CQB with a 2000 round count and a new CQB Elite. Another option is the Springfield Armory Custom. I'm on a 10-14 month waiting list for their model #PC9111, it is the FBI-HRT gun that has an excellent reputation.

 

[Nomad Farrier]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

Thought I'd bump this back from the dead and get some more stories.

 

[nw911guy]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

Personally, I think I'd opt for one from either Wilson, Nighthawk, or Ed Brown.

The real question becomes -
Do you want a package gun or one that has been built with specific components? If you want a Wilson, they aren't to keen on using other company's components. For instance, say you wanted Heinie's Slant Pro in their particular slide cut. Last time I checked, Wilson said they'd only use Wilson sights.

Nighthawk makes a damn nice gun, but then so do the others.

Another issue I have is the Baer's seem sort of spartan in the finish department.

 

[luvtoclimb1976]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

Just a thought. BlackOps Precision (formally Underground Skunkworks) is making 1911s now. They would be another to look at. I saw the start of one when I was over there this summer when I had them work on my rifle. They look like they will be really nice 1911s

 

[tmada45]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

I have les baer premiere 2 that has 5000+ rds through it. I haven't had a ftf since the first 100rds. It is as tight as it was new. I didn't like ambi safety so I changed it to a brown. I also changed the sights to ed brown. It is a great pistol and I can't imagine the others being any nicer. No matter which one you choose you have a great pistol.

 

[nw911guy]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: luvtoclimb1976</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just a thought. BlackOps Precision (formally Underground Skunkworks) is making 1911s now. They would be another to look at. I saw the start of one when I was over there this summer when I had them work on my rifle. They look like they will be really nice 1911s </div></div>

This post is utterly WORTHLESS without pics.

 

[luvtoclimb1976]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

Yeah I know but there is not any pics yet that I am aware of. I ask Mike if he has any pics he could post so hopefully there is.

 

[Mackay Sagebrush]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

The Premier II I spoke of on page 1. It is a 1.5" gun. I have put 1K rounds though it now and it has never choked once. I believe the Baer PIIs are money well spent.

 

[KM375]

Re: Wilson vs. Brown vs. Baer vs. Nighthawk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oregon Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok guys I've decided to drop the cash and buy a top of the line 1911. I've come to these 4. Wison, Ed Brown, Les Baer, and Nighthawk. I'd like to hear some pros and cons, and experiences you all have had with these. Good and Bad. Thanks so much for your time. </div></div>

http://www.pistoldynamics.com/Pistols_08.html

I would not eliminate these guys from your search of High end 1911's. I would take http://www.pistoldynamics.com/CS_Intro_09.html Combat Special from Paul over most places.