I'm curious to know if this competition today is comparable to the competitions in the 60's and 70's ? If they are broadly similar, can anyone show me the winning scores over the last 50-yrs ? I'm interested in how results have improved over time as technology and expertise has developed...are the winners of today putting up scores a country mile better than those of several decades ago ?
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Advanced Marksmanship Wimbledon Cup
- Thread starter Timo Turl
- Start date
Re: Wimbledon Cup
Try here:
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/nat-trophy/tro-105.pdf
My wind coach has won it 5 times.
Try here:
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/nat-trophy/tro-105.pdf
My wind coach has won it 5 times.
Re: Wimbledon Cup
Ooops i forgot the link, Sorry about that. i was gunna post the same link that D Gosnell did.
Steve
Ooops i forgot the link, Sorry about that. i was gunna post the same link that D Gosnell did.
Steve
Re: Wimbledon Cup
If anyone knows,,, what was the cause to go from the 5V target, to the 10X target?
Correct my terminology, if I'm wrong. Reason I ask, is we still use the 5V scoring target here.
If anyone knows,,, what was the cause to go from the 5V target, to the 10X target?
Correct my terminology, if I'm wrong. Reason I ask, is we still use the 5V scoring target here.
Re: Wimbledon Cup
Scores! Shooting competition got so stiff, and the there were so many high scores, that the NRA decided to go to the 10X target to better separate out the top shooters. This was a good thing overall, as it has sharpened the competition.
Scores! Shooting competition got so stiff, and the there were so many high scores, that the NRA decided to go to the 10X target to better separate out the top shooters. This was a good thing overall, as it has sharpened the competition.
Re: Wimbledon Cup
Is there a break down of what rifle(s) they were shooting. I like to see how many AR's vs .308 there were.
Is there a break down of what rifle(s) they were shooting. I like to see how many AR's vs .308 there were.
Re: Wimbledon Cup
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a break down of what rifle(s) they were shooting. I like to see how many AR's vs .308 there were.</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a break down of what rifle(s) they were shooting. I like to see how many AR's vs .308 there were.</div></div>
You'd typically find few if any competitors using an iron sight Service Rifle in Any/Any competition. Most folks are gonna come to the firing line with a scope on their rifles; and, typically shoot something like the 6.5/284, if they're serious about winning, assuming the capability to win. BTW, there is another National LR Championship event for those who are so bold as to want to shoot their Service Rifles.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a break down of what rifle(s) they were shooting. I like to see how many AR's vs .308 there were.</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a break down of what rifle(s) they were shooting. I like to see how many AR's vs .308 there were.</div></div>
You'd typically find few if any competitors using an iron sight Service Rifle in Any/Any competition. Most folks are gonna come to the firing line with a scope on their rifles; and, typically shoot something like the 6.5/284, if they're serious about winning, assuming the capability to win. BTW, there is another National LR Championship event for those who are so bold as to want to shoot their Service Rifles.
Re: Wimbledon Cup
DUH!!! For some reason I had it stuck in my head that The Wimbledon was a service rifle only match. Thanks SS.
DUH!!! For some reason I had it stuck in my head that The Wimbledon was a service rifle only match. Thanks SS.
Re: Wimbledon Cup
The reason they went from the 5V to the 10X was because in the 50's someone shot a 250-with almost all V's score. I believe it was USMC W.O. Peterforte and it was done with a M1 Garand. The next year the 10x target was in place.
The reason they went from the 5V to the 10X was because in the 50's someone shot a 250-with almost all V's score. I believe it was USMC W.O. Peterforte and it was done with a M1 Garand. The next year the 10x target was in place.
Re: Wimbledon Cup
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DUH!!! For some reason I had it stuck in my head that The Wimbledon was a service rifle only match. Thanks SS. </div></div>
There are no Service Rifle only matches at the Long Range segment of the National Matches. There are Service Rifle awards given within the different fired events though, including the aggregate.
The Wimbledon is the exact opposite in fact - it has the least restrictions on chambering, rifle type, and sights of all the events that make up the LR aggregate, being an any rifle/any sight match. While technically a Service Rifle can win the match overall, the likelihood is very low given that the SR is competing with 6.5x284s with no trigger weight restrictions wearing optics.
The LR segment program takes a secret decoder ring to figure out with all the sub-awards, even for someone that is familiar with the sport and format.
I suspect the Wimbledon is most recognizable as an event due to the opening chapter of Marine Sniper - One Shot, One Kill - which portrays with great drama Carlos Hathcock's win of the shootoff back in 1965. Its notoriety was revived in the movie Shooter, though in the movie they show his winning target as a 300 Rapid Fire target with 5 shots when the event shootoff is shot on a LR target with 10 record shots.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DUH!!! For some reason I had it stuck in my head that The Wimbledon was a service rifle only match. Thanks SS. </div></div>
There are no Service Rifle only matches at the Long Range segment of the National Matches. There are Service Rifle awards given within the different fired events though, including the aggregate.
The Wimbledon is the exact opposite in fact - it has the least restrictions on chambering, rifle type, and sights of all the events that make up the LR aggregate, being an any rifle/any sight match. While technically a Service Rifle can win the match overall, the likelihood is very low given that the SR is competing with 6.5x284s with no trigger weight restrictions wearing optics.
The LR segment program takes a secret decoder ring to figure out with all the sub-awards, even for someone that is familiar with the sport and format.
I suspect the Wimbledon is most recognizable as an event due to the opening chapter of Marine Sniper - One Shot, One Kill - which portrays with great drama Carlos Hathcock's win of the shootoff back in 1965. Its notoriety was revived in the movie Shooter, though in the movie they show his winning target as a 300 Rapid Fire target with 5 shots when the event shootoff is shot on a LR target with 10 record shots.
Re: Wimbledon Cup
The Long Range 2010 information begins on page 88 of this e-document. It includes info on the Porter Cup.
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/camp_perry/program-2010/view.html
The Porter is described on page 95. It is a Service Rifle match fired concurrently with the Leech Cup match; the Leech Cup is an any/iron match.
See my above reference to the decoder ring
The Long Range 2010 information begins on page 88 of this e-document. It includes info on the Porter Cup.
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/camp_perry/program-2010/view.html
The Porter is described on page 95. It is a Service Rifle match fired concurrently with the Leech Cup match; the Leech Cup is an any/iron match.
See my above reference to the decoder ring
Re: Wimbledon Cup
I always thought the Porter or the Farr was was run concurrent to the Wimbledon and that was why they had two SR matches. I am in agreement, decoder ring is needed. I'm only doing the CMP week this year. I've done Pistol phase 5 times, rifle phase and all those awards are new to me.
Cheers.
I always thought the Porter or the Farr was was run concurrent to the Wimbledon and that was why they had two SR matches. I am in agreement, decoder ring is needed. I'm only doing the CMP week this year. I've done Pistol phase 5 times, rifle phase and all those awards are new to me.
Cheers.
Re: Wimbledon Cup
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xcount</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason they went from the 5V to the 10X was because in the 50's someone shot a 250-with almost all V's score. I believe it was USMC W.O. Peterforte and it was done with a M1 Garand. The next year the 10x target was in place.
</div></div>
You must be thinking of a different match? They didn't stop using the 5V at the WC until 1975. And I don't see a USMC W.O. Peterforte listed among the winners ever.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xcount</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason they went from the 5V to the 10X was because in the 50's someone shot a 250-with almost all V's score. I believe it was USMC W.O. Peterforte and it was done with a M1 Garand. The next year the 10x target was in place.
</div></div>
You must be thinking of a different match? They didn't stop using the 5V at the WC until 1975. And I don't see a USMC W.O. Peterforte listed among the winners ever.
Re: Wimbledon Cup
What kills me is that I grew up next door to a man that won it twice......but I was a young kid who didn't know anything about shooting & never got the opportunity to learn from him......it wasn't until my 20's that I learned from my Dad about our old neighbor.....
Then I find out that my older brothers high school shooting coach was Lone Wigger......of course I was about 9 yrs. old at the time.....but still it kills me to find out that I was surrounded by these two men, & never got to learn from them! AARRGGHH!!
What kills me is that I grew up next door to a man that won it twice......but I was a young kid who didn't know anything about shooting & never got the opportunity to learn from him......it wasn't until my 20's that I learned from my Dad about our old neighbor.....
Then I find out that my older brothers high school shooting coach was Lone Wigger......of course I was about 9 yrs. old at the time.....but still it kills me to find out that I was surrounded by these two men, & never got to learn from them! AARRGGHH!!
Re: Wimbledon Cup
Missing the opportunity to get coaching from Lones is too bad but hopefully your brother gained some knowledge from him. Lones is, in my opinion, the best shooter this country has every produced. He is still a top contender in any 22 prone event.
Missing the opportunity to get coaching from Lones is too bad but hopefully your brother gained some knowledge from him. Lones is, in my opinion, the best shooter this country has every produced. He is still a top contender in any 22 prone event.
Re: Wimbledon Cup
My older brother was in high school in the mid-late 1970's & Wigger was his coach. My sister hung out with Deena Wigger, but since I was young, I never hung out with them or realized I would get involved in rifle shooting later in my life.........
Missed opportunities........
My older brother was in high school in the mid-late 1970's & Wigger was his coach. My sister hung out with Deena Wigger, but since I was young, I never hung out with them or realized I would get involved in rifle shooting later in my life.........
Missed opportunities........
Re: Wimbledon Cup
The hits just keep coming.......I was just talking to my Dad and was telling him how I was bummed that I missed out on the opportunity to learn from Charlie Davis & Lone Wigger when they lived near us back in the 70's. Of course I wasn't even 10 yet, but still wished I had a chance to learn from them....
My Dad: "well I guess you'll be pissed to find out about another neighbor of yours when you were in high school."
Me: "Huh? What are you talking about....what neighbor...?"
Dad: "You know the old man that lived 2 doors down who's wife was named Moe & played tennis with your mom...?"
Me: "Uh, yeah....the guy was named Bill....or something...right?"
Dad: "Yep, that's right....but his full name is William E. Krilling....and he coached the USAMU International Rifle team for about 27 years...."
Me: " Are you kidding me.....?"
We moved next to Mr. Krilling when I started high school in 1985......never knew this about him.....I feel like crying.....missed opportunities!!
The hits just keep coming.......I was just talking to my Dad and was telling him how I was bummed that I missed out on the opportunity to learn from Charlie Davis & Lone Wigger when they lived near us back in the 70's. Of course I wasn't even 10 yet, but still wished I had a chance to learn from them....
My Dad: "well I guess you'll be pissed to find out about another neighbor of yours when you were in high school."
Me: "Huh? What are you talking about....what neighbor...?"
Dad: "You know the old man that lived 2 doors down who's wife was named Moe & played tennis with your mom...?"
Me: "Uh, yeah....the guy was named Bill....or something...right?"
Dad: "Yep, that's right....but his full name is William E. Krilling....and he coached the USAMU International Rifle team for about 27 years...."
Me: " Are you kidding me.....?"
We moved next to Mr. Krilling when I started high school in 1985......never knew this about him.....I feel like crying.....missed opportunities!!
Re: Wimbledon Cup
Wig is a little tight with the coaching these days, though you can get info out of him when he's in a talkative mood.
The first time I asked him for help it was quite comical, though very on point. He went distinguished like 50 years ago, getting his first points with an M1 as a junior and finishing up with an M14 in the service. I was about half way there when I approached him. Told him where I was, asked if he had any tips for me. He said, "get your scores up and figure out how to shoot them in a match", turned on his heel, and walked away.
It is pretty much that simple. The guy really hates Service Rifles, and with his skills, I can see why. He'll say to me when he sees me with one, "why don't you get rid of that piece of $hit and get something that actually shoots where you point it??"
He has a pretty good Wimbledon story to tell as well. Ask him to tell it if you get the chance to be around him.
Wig is a little tight with the coaching these days, though you can get info out of him when he's in a talkative mood.
The first time I asked him for help it was quite comical, though very on point. He went distinguished like 50 years ago, getting his first points with an M1 as a junior and finishing up with an M14 in the service. I was about half way there when I approached him. Told him where I was, asked if he had any tips for me. He said, "get your scores up and figure out how to shoot them in a match", turned on his heel, and walked away.
It is pretty much that simple. The guy really hates Service Rifles, and with his skills, I can see why. He'll say to me when he sees me with one, "why don't you get rid of that piece of $hit and get something that actually shoots where you point it??"
He has a pretty good Wimbledon story to tell as well. Ask him to tell it if you get the chance to be around him.
Re: Wimbledon Cup
where can i find info about this competition??? rifles,scopes,and info about last edition??? thanks
where can i find info about this competition??? rifles,scopes,and info about last edition??? thanks
Re: Wimbledon Cup
You can contact NRA Competitions and learn everything you need to know about how to enter the event. The 1000 yard match allows the use of a scope sight and a loop sling support. As far as suitable rifles, ones fitted with a prone adjustable stock mated to a barrel action chambered for something like the 6.5/284 is a popular choice for a multitude of reasons.
You can contact NRA Competitions and learn everything you need to know about how to enter the event. The 1000 yard match allows the use of a scope sight and a loop sling support. As far as suitable rifles, ones fitted with a prone adjustable stock mated to a barrel action chambered for something like the 6.5/284 is a popular choice for a multitude of reasons.
Re: Wimbledon Cup
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wig is a little tight with the coaching these days, though you can get info out of him when he's in a talkative mood.
It is pretty much that simple. The guy really hates Service Rifles, and with his skills, I can see why. He'll say to me when he sees me with one, "why don't you get rid of that piece of $hit and get something that actually shoots where you point it??"
</div></div>
Now THAT is one of the best bits of advice I have heard! Drop the turd and pick up a real rifle, preferably one with a bolt handle on the side of it!
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wig is a little tight with the coaching these days, though you can get info out of him when he's in a talkative mood.
It is pretty much that simple. The guy really hates Service Rifles, and with his skills, I can see why. He'll say to me when he sees me with one, "why don't you get rid of that piece of $hit and get something that actually shoots where you point it??"
</div></div>
Now THAT is one of the best bits of advice I have heard! Drop the turd and pick up a real rifle, preferably one with a bolt handle on the side of it!
John
Re: Wimbledon Cup
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wig is a little tight with the coaching these days, though you can get info out of him when he's in a talkative mood</div></div>
That's why I like Gary Anderson, he is the complete oppesite. Anderson is always willing to help out other shooters. Though he's suppose to be retired from the CMP, he spends most of his time teaching the GSM Master Instructor course. At each of his classes he has the students over his house for a get-to-gether. He spends all his brake time answering dumb questions from us idiot want-a-bees. You don't leave his classes without Anderson giving you his contact information in case you need further advice. Big on Jr Shooting Programs.
The guy is amazing. He pushes GSM & Rimfire Sporter Programs because of the ideal that shooting sports should be within the means of everyone, and not just a rich man's game.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wig is a little tight with the coaching these days, though you can get info out of him when he's in a talkative mood</div></div>
That's why I like Gary Anderson, he is the complete oppesite. Anderson is always willing to help out other shooters. Though he's suppose to be retired from the CMP, he spends most of his time teaching the GSM Master Instructor course. At each of his classes he has the students over his house for a get-to-gether. He spends all his brake time answering dumb questions from us idiot want-a-bees. You don't leave his classes without Anderson giving you his contact information in case you need further advice. Big on Jr Shooting Programs.
The guy is amazing. He pushes GSM & Rimfire Sporter Programs because of the ideal that shooting sports should be within the means of everyone, and not just a rich man's game.
Re: Wimbledon Cup
I think the last time Wig shot CP HP was 1986. He showed me his XC rifle. It was a custom-actioned rifle in 243 with a DBM - quite an oddity for that era.
There's a Rhumbold Match story floating around from that year I hear...
I think the last time Wig shot CP HP was 1986. He showed me his XC rifle. It was a custom-actioned rifle in 243 with a DBM - quite an oddity for that era.
There's a Rhumbold Match story floating around from that year I hear...
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