Win #41 vs CCI#41

[Dildobaggins]

So for all my small frame ARs I've been using CCI #41. I've been shooting a ton lately, and they have treated me very well. Problem is like most, I can't find any in stock. Came across Winchester #41 primers I'm stock.

Anyone ever compare the two? How were the SD/MV compared to the CCI? Just don't want to buy them and have them be garbage. I know they are different components, but I've had nothing but issues with win brass, and no longer use it. so Im just checking

Thanks fellas

 

[simonp]

Tagged for 411

 

[Pickle Rick]

So for all my small frame ARs I've been using CCI #41. I've been shooting a ton lately, and they have treated me very well. Problem is like most, I can't find any in stock. Came across Winchester #41 primers I'm stock.

Anyone ever compare the two? How were the SD/MV compared to the CCI? Just don't want to buy them and have them be garbage. I know they are different components, but I've had nothing but issues with win brass, and no longer use it. so Im just checking

Thanks fellas

No experience but I did see a couple of bad reviews on one of the major reloading dealers. Two or three claimed they had failures to fire.

 

[Dildobaggins]

No experience but I did see a couple of bad reviews on one of the major reloading dealers. Two or three claimed they had failures to fire.

"Got damn!!!"
(Noob noob)

 

[Pickle Rick]

You asked

 

[Doom]

#41 primers tend to have harder cups than standard primers. I would speculate that the failures mentioned are due to failure to seat the primer to the bottom of the pocket and set the anvil or a weak firing pin spring.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I came across a brick in trade last week. I have never use the Winchester 41s, but some fellas with more experience tells me they are the same as the cci 41s. Thicker cups meant for AR loading from my understanding

 

[CK1.0]

I hope they work because I bought a shitload of 'em lol.

I don't believe/buy much of the "theories" out there concerning primers and/or priming seating depth wreaking havoc on loads... I do believe in weakened firing pin springs.

Do CCI450's/magnum SRP's seem to be more consistent (possibly lower SD)..? Yep, they do, so I generally use them. But CCI#41's work great too, the same really as far as I can tell.

Somehow, magically, my guns that fire lowly CCI200's and/or Fed210's shoot just as good and get low SD's as well.

I think it's a good bet that the Win#41's will go bang too.

 

[Pickle Rick]

I agree. If there was a problem with them then I have no doubts they would correct it.

 

[Cfshooter]

my take on Win 41's

 

[CK1.0]

my take on Win 41's
View attachment 8061899

Does that mean 20 out of 100 didn't go bang..? I'm not sure I get the inferred message lol.

 

[Cfshooter]

Does that mean 20 out of 100 didn't go bang..? I'm not sure I get the inferred message lol.

my bad, but no. If you look close, you will see the 5 with holes blown in them.

 

[Pickle Rick]

my bad, but no. If you look close, you will see the 5 with holes blown in them.

Blown around the edges, huh? Not good.

 

[CK1.0]

my bad, but no. If you look close, you will see the 5 with holes blown in them.

Ok I get it lol.

I just played captcha and saw the 5 with holes...

I don't have any experience with that, what's that a sign of? That's never happened to me, I've never seen primers do that and I've shot a lot of fucking guns over the years hahaha.

I'm guessing pressure?

 

[sawgunner2001]

I don't have any experience with that, what's that a sign of?

It's a(nother) sign that Winchester primers are garbage. This is par for the course with WIN primers. Is it pressure? Sure. Just way less pressure than should be required for this to happen.

 

[Cfshooter]

It's a(nother) sign that Winchester primers are garbage. This is par for the course with WIN primers. Is it pressure? Sure. Just way less pressure than should be required for this to happen.

this!

 

[Dildobaggins]

So no on the win #41s? Haha

 

[Cfshooter]

So no on the win #41s? Haha

some people like them, I just have not had the best experience with them.

 

[Dildobaggins]

some people like them, I just have not had the best experience with them.

All I've ever shot was CCI 450 and CCI #41. They seem to treat me well, so I'll just be patient and keep looking for them. Never tried anything else though

 

[264pr]

#41 primers tend to have harder cups than standard primers. I would speculate that the failures mentioned are due to failure to seat the primer to the bottom of the pocket and set the anvil or a weak firing pin spring.

The anvil is positioned further away in order to be less likely to experience slam fire, its not that they are harder/thicker materials

CCI used to have this published on their website but it appears to have gone poof.....

Take any AR and drop the bolt on a loaded mag and send a round into battery

Then remove the round and inspect the primer.....you WILL see an indentation on the primer cup from the momentum of the firing pin being driven forward when the bolt goes into battery.

 

[CK1.0]

Well, guess I'll find out lol.

I never push pressure in any of my rigs, so maybe I'll have better luck (maybe not). I'm also looking at these for bolt-gun stuff which might yield better results (I honestly don't really know dick about loading for an AR because I've never done it).

That said, looks like that 23.6gn XBR load is still just below Hodgdon's max (23.8gn)... in a 24", 1 in 12, which nobody shoots of course haha.

 

[264pr]

Well, guess I'll find out lol.

I never push pressure in any of my rigs, so maybe I'll have better luck (maybe not). I'm also looking at these for bolt-gun stuff which might yield better results (I honestly don't really know dick about loading for an AR because I've never done it).

That said, looks like that 23.6gn XBR load is still just below Hodgdon's max (23.8gn)... in a 24", 1 in 12, which nobody shoots of course haha.

View attachment 8062071

Thats a 223 load based on listed pressure.....you have a ways to go before you see pressure issues......assuming you're using 556 brass not 223 in a 556/wylde chamber ar

your COAL can go out a ways too and still fit in a magazine......I load right to the max 2.260 and they fit in usgi mags and run without issue

 

[whatsupdoc]

my bad, but no. If you look close, you will see the 5 with holes blown in them.

That sucks, I have used a brick of the Winchester 41's in my 55 FMJ plinking ammo and never had a issue.
The only thing I recall is they seemed easier to seat than my usual CCI 450's load in 5.56.

 

[Pickle Rick]

my take on Win 41's
View attachment 8061899

Did you try contacting Winchester?

 

[Cfshooter]

Did you try contacting Winchester?

I did not. I just don’t use them anymore.

 

[CK1.0]

I did a little more digging and seems these Winchester #41’s are a result of them getting a big contract to take over the Lake City ammo plant:

Winchester Awarded U.S. Army Contract to Manage and Operate Lake City Army Ammunition Plant

/PRNewswire/ -- Olin Corporation (NYSE: OLN) announced today that its ammunition division, Olin Winchester, LLC ("Winchester"), has been selected by the U.S....

www.prnewswire.com

Winchester Takes Over Operation of the Army's Lake City Ammunition Plant - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ Olin Corporation, better knows as Winchester Ammunition, has taken over operation of the US Army’s Lake City Ammunition Plant east of Kansas City, Missouri. The plant turns out billions of rounds of small arms ammunition each year and has been in existence since...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Contracts for September 27, 2019

Today's Defense Department contracts valued at $7 million or more are now live on Defense.gov.

www.defense.gov

I find it hard to believe they wouldn’t be able to get their shit together as far as primers go with them making billions of rounds and with millions of dollars on the line.

I probably won’t get into mine for another year or so to see for myself (unless I just decide to in the name of curiosity), but hopefully a small sliver of that reported 28 million went/goes to not putting out shit.

 

[Dildobaggins]

I did a little more digging and seems these Winchester #41’s are a result of them getting a big contract to take over the Lake City ammo plant:

Winchester Awarded U.S. Army Contract to Manage and Operate Lake City Army Ammunition Plant

/PRNewswire/ -- Olin Corporation (NYSE: OLN) announced today that its ammunition division, Olin Winchester, LLC ("Winchester"), has been selected by the U.S....

www.prnewswire.com

Winchester Takes Over Operation of the Army's Lake City Ammunition Plant - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ Olin Corporation, better knows as Winchester Ammunition, has taken over operation of the US Army’s Lake City Ammunition Plant east of Kansas City, Missouri. The plant turns out billions of rounds of small arms ammunition each year and has been in existence since...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Contracts for September 27, 2019

Today's Defense Department contracts valued at $7 million or more are now live on Defense.gov.

www.defense.gov

I find it hard to believe they wouldn’t be able to get their shit together as far as primers go with them making billions of rounds and with millions of dollars on the line.

I probably won’t get into mine for another year or so to see for myself (unless I just decide to in the name of curiosity), but hopefully a small sliver of that reported 28 million went/goes to not putting out shit.

Good shit, and research! Thank you for this. I'm really starting to not like Winchester though. I bought 7 bags of winchester 223 rem brass over a 4 month span. Different lots too. I got 90 pieces out of 700 that had uniformed flash holes, and that was being generous. 95 percent of the flash holes were oblong or looked like they were double punched or extremely off center. Massive differences in OAL etc. Now, the issues that are being reported with the primers. They just seem to make sub par shit, so it makes sense they'd get a huge contract. Haha

 

[LANCER]

Do they make Primers and Compound at Lake City? If they do, then the Win #41 will be the same as the CCI #41 since Winchester now runs the Lake City ammo plant. They are not allowed to deviate from the established formulas from what I've read and I would imagine primer composition can't change without another testing campaign. I'm not sure since I don't know the specifics but that is my assumption.

 

[simonp]

Curious if anyone has had more and more recent experiences with the Win 41's, they seem to be more available and substantially less than the CCI 41's!

 

[TrevK]

Curious if anyone has had more and more recent experiences with the Win 41's, they seem to be more available and substantially less than the CCI 41's!

I’ve burned through about 200 of them in the last 3 months and haven’t had a single issue, but that was in a bolt gun. YMMV

 

[FredHammer]

my take on Win 41's
View attachment 8061899

The dreaded pin hole primer failure. This was a problem with certain lots of WLR primers starting late 2000s. There is a recall on problem lots. I emailed Winchester my lot numbers, photos of damaged bolt faces, and they sent me 5000 new 2023 production WLR primers and $300 to replace two ARC Nucleus bolt faces.

I was just researching these #41 Win primers and saw this photo of yours. Damnit!

 

[Cfshooter]

The dreaded pin hole primer failure. This was a problem with certain lots of WLR primers starting late 2000s. There is a recall on problem lots. I emailed Winchester my lot numbers, photos of damaged bolt faces, and they sent me 5000 new 2023 production WLR primers and $300 to replace two ARC Nucleus bolt faces.

I was just researching these #41 Win primers and saw this photo of yours. Damnit!

Lol, I sent them all the info and blown brass, leftover priced brass, and loaded rounds. They sent me a hat .