Winchester M70

[pmclaine]

It snowed last night....

What does that have to do with a Winchester M70?

Well I took the day off work and my daughter and I went to my gun club because they were doing their monthly breakfast and she likes going up there for these events.

What she likes is going over to the seldom used trap range and scouring the field for unbroken clays that we can load in the flingers and send sailing. This time I figured Id bring an older Browning A5/Sweet 16 Id never fired and try to fire up some clays.

Well it snowed last night and we were not going to find any clays.

So I though "Hmmmm, Cabelas is mere minutes away" and we were in the truck heading to Cabelas to buy clays, me hoping they were not expensive. Do you guys know you get more than 100 of those things for $13!

Well that was cheap but while there I thought lets check out the Gun Library. First thing I saw was a Garand with about 3 inches cut from the buttstock end creating this "stumpy" stock Garand priced at $1300. The Library guy wasnt impressed when I said a little too loud "There is an expensive Garand".

But along the wall was a 30-06 M70 Sporter, Pre 64, Serial is in the 150K range. The stock on this rifle spoke to me. Its a nice red Military spec linseed oil finish, no shine just well loved by hand. The stock is pretty clean save for some handling marks and with a fresh coat of linseed it will glow. The metal is a matte blue looking almost like park on the receiver while the barrel is more of a semi gloss blue. The only thing polished blue appears to be the safety and shroud.

$999.99 was the price.

Im looking at this aborted Garand for $1300 and there is this Winchester that when you look up "Badass rifle" this is the picture you get.

Im thinking to hog out the sporter barrel channel, replace with a Douglas in the USMC profile, add some blocks, presto chango a Unertl and Im good to go.

Didnt buy it today but put it on hold. Salesguy said he would be interested in a last ditch Arisaka I have. Im thinking if I can get it for $800 even thats not a bad deal for a great start to a Hathcock tribute.

Any advice what to look for?

I did note the sling swivels are only about 3/4" maybe 1" opening. How hard is it to find 1-1/4 or 1-1/2 to mount an M1907 sling?

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I have seen some utter stupid high prices at Cabela's gun rooms. But have also bought some amazing steals. Not sure if they are incompetent, or if they are occasionally flipping something out the door for nothing to get people to come in bargain hunting. I bought a custom Mauser, all engraved, gorgeous there... for $600 a few years ago. Posted on Scout. Amazing gun. I almost bought a Suhl drilling a couple of weeks ago in Ohio. Still tempted.

I'd just buy it (trade the Jap rifle as those are getting collectible) and don't worry about what you do to the 70.

Smoking deal right there!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[...]

yeah the prices in the cabelas gun room are kind of ridiculous.......although they do have a really nice McMillan stocked kimber 8400 for $1400 thats been sitting there for ever.....been tempted to offer them $1K for it.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Ridiculous on one hand... but all over the map. There always seems to be 'something' that is either mis-labeled or priced stupid low. Again... psychology says to do it to get a reputation as a bargain den. But it's strange....

Whatever... I'll bottom feed there when I can. It's the way to win at gun buying!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sandwarrior]

All over the map is right. Chilean 1895's for $500 in one store and $300 in another. Both have sat there for six years. All while a 1912 went for $350. Butchered, non-collectible Mausers all running in the $500 range...and sitting there for years. But, then again, maybe that's why Bass Pro bought 'em.

As to the model 70, unless it's in very collectible condition, do what you want with it. They are making more of these daily down in NC. And, it's not like you can't find a controlled round feed rifle. Forty years from now someone will call my advice stupid. Like someone drilling and tapping my first year production Savage 1899 .250-3000 for a Packmayr side-mount tip-off scope...in the 1940's.

I know a lot of these older rifles were pretty cool back in their day, but not everyone wants to keep them the way the company that built them did.

And, when you get it, pad that young lady up and take her shooting with it.

 

[pmclaine]

1.25" swivels bought I guess that means Ill be buying the rifle.

What type value does an Arisaka last ditch bring?

 

[sandwarrior]

I did a "completed" search on GB and a couple of mint ones went for $380 for and and $395 for the other. Neither was a last ditch. One had the mum ground off and one still had it. i woulda thunk that mattered more. But, the price is going up on these. Last of the WWII era surplus you could still get for under $100.

A store down in WI, just north of Wassau had one for $500. They get a lot of offers but it's been there a couple years.

I'd say yours is at least $300.

 

[pmclaine]

In hand.

I will never buy another gun from Cabelas again as long as root canal is an option.

 

[Baron26]

Same experience with Cabels’s Gun Room. I’ve bought a couple of nice M70 Vlassic Stainless, it then I bought a 300WM that had the wrong box and spring...wouldn’t load correct. Just be careful and due a good inspection.

 

[pmclaine]

This what I want to make....



This what I have to build with.....











The Arisaka scored me a savings of $210. Im into it for just under $860.00. Pre64 has sling swivels in route. I need to get some Winchester receiver plugs to fill those abominations on top until I get my Unertl blocks.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

You did good.... I bought an Arisaka in the '80s for $35. They couldn't give them away. Some are now in the high hundreds... rare variants, GI Bringbacks with chrysanthinums intact.

They are actually good rifles.... until the very, very late war ones. Then they had steel and heat treating problems.

Great rifle. Build away! It will be beautiful!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Spaghetti Western]

Am sure it won't bother you, but most of the USMC model 70's had the early "butterfly" style safety & the stocks were generally unchequered.
Goodluck with the project & please keep us updated.

 

[pmclaine]

You did good.... I bought an Arisaka in the '80s for $35. They couldn't give them away. Some are now in the high hundreds... rare variants, GI Bringbacks with chrysanthinums intact.

They are actually good rifles.... until the very, very late war ones. Then they had steel and heat treating problems.

Great rifle. Build away! It will be beautiful!

Cheers,

Sirhr

I got that one cheaper. I was surprised how clean that bore was, too bad it took us awhile to learn chrome lining is marvelous in crappy environments.

All it did was take up much needed space in my safe but it is a cool collectible. The "last ditch" is the only reason one needs to give to justify the bombs.

 

[pmclaine]

Am sure it won't bother you, but most of the USMC model 70's had the early "butterfly" style safety & the stocks were generally unchequered.
Goodluck with the project & please keep us updated.

Im thinking I saw pictures of some sporter stocks that retained their checkering. The pic I posted of the USMC sniper is dark and I can't tell if it's checkered. I don't think checkering was ever included on the target and team stocks.

As it is I can live with it. The wood is what attracted me to the rifle. I love the mil spec red. Had it been glossy like most of these are I wouldn't have bought it.

Trying to discern what the best linseed oil to use to continue the red oxidation would be. I usually use pure tung oil on my stocks, which may not be a bad choice here as it tends to stay the color of whatever it is on, linseed can go black and I don't want that.

Funny that as soon as this came to the register it became the most popular rifle in the place. No one noticed I guess for the two weeks it was there previously.

 

[pmclaine]

Ps I can likely gat a butterfly safety. Will they fit a later model?

 

[pmclaine]

Here is a checkered sporter M70.....

 

[pmclaine]

Some more info.....

https://gatdaily.com/look-vietnam-er...-sniper-video/


Some more checkering.....

 

[sandwarrior]

In hand.

I will never buy another gun from Cabelas again as long as root canal is an option.

What's the issue? They try to jack you at the end?..."That's the wrong price tag on that rifle?"

 

[pmclaine]

What's the issue? They try to jack you at the end?..."That's the wrong price tag on that rifle?"

It took about 15 minutes to agree on a price, no big deal, but than about 1 hour 15 minutes to complete the paperwork.

Two different people involved, a tablet, two computer terminals, begin process in one room, move to a second "special" counter that no one works at but they have to page someone from somewhere else off the floor to.......It was like a car buying process.

Sucked.

 

[pmclaine]

Am sure it won't bother you, but most of the USMC model 70's had the early "butterfly" style safety.

Just bought a Type I butterfly safety bolt sleeve assembly. Seller says all 3 types of Pre 64 bolt sleeve assemblies are interchangeable.

Great source for Pre 64 parts if anyone is looking.

https://pre64win.com/collections/

 

[ScharfshutzeK98]

Congrats on your purchase! I will be following this one since it's a build I would like to do someday. I know exactly what you mean about purchasing from Cabela's, I did it once with my C&R and they screwed it all up and had me there for hours. I vowed to never buy from them again unless it was a "unicorn" rifle.

 

[pmclaine]

....unless it was a "unicorn" rifle.

Yes funny how things work.

Start out worrying about the cost of clay pigeons find yourself all lathered about building an expensive "toy" rifle.

 

[Iamero]

Man after seeing this post I kind of want to go dink around in their gun library again. There was a pre-64 Mod 70 in the original stock (stock had been opened a bit) but had been rebarreled to 308 win with some big ol heavy SS barrel on there. No history on who did the work, but I should have bought it and had my smith check the headspace. All of that for $599, and I kick myself for not picking it up the same day. I went back the next day and he let me know someone bought it that morning...damn.

 

[pmclaine]

Man after seeing this post I kind of want to go dink around in their gun library again. There was a pre-64 Mod 70 in the original stock (stock had been opened a bit) but had been rebarreled to 308 win with some big ol heavy SS barrel on there. No history on who did the work, but I should have bought it and had my smith check the headspace. All of that for $599, and I kick myself for not picking it up the same day. I went back the next day and he let me know someone bought it that morning...damn.

My attraction to old old stuff actually pays off.

Most other people want latest and greatest.

I settle for Greatest.

 

[pmclaine]

Flag safety and Winchester receiver plugs installed. The silhouette of my faux sniper is a little bit more legit and those proud of flush receiver plugs screws that came on the gun are gone...



also got some 1.25 inch swivels that will accept a GI M1907 or 1960s era Nylon M14 sling. Leaning toward the Nylon OD sling on my Vietnam era faux snipers...



Looking for a 1.25 inch Unertl Target in 8, 10 or 12X. 8X is probably cost prohibitive, 10X would be ideal, 12X is considered.

 

[sandwarrior]

Flag safety and Winchester receiver plugs installed. The silhouette of my faux sniper is a little bit more legit and those proud of flush receiver plugs screws that came on the gun are gone...



also got some 1.25 inch swivels that will accept a GI M1907 or 1960s era Nylon M14 sling. Leaning toward the Nylon OD sling on my Vietnam era faux snipers...



Looking for a 1.25 inch Unertl Target in 8, 10 or 12X. 8X is probably cost prohibitive, 10X would be ideal, 12X is considered.

Two words, ..Dewey Greiner.

 

[pmclaine]

Two words, ..Dewey Greiner.

Tried to send him an email, got kicked back.

Its just a matter of patience.

They pop up. The 1-1/4" Target scopes are probably not the most popular with the small bell for shooters but for USMC builds they are the ones to get.

 

[Spaghetti Western]

i hadnt realised the different bolt shroud/ safety assembly types, would interchange so readily. Had just assumed because movement direction of the safety was opposite between the type 1's & later, that they wouldnt. but goodwork on finding that out, its handy to know.

Is it glass bedded, as yet? i suppose you will wait for a heavy barrel, first.

 

[pmclaine]

i hadnt realised the different bolt shroud/ safety assembly types, would interchange so readily. Had just assumed because movement direction of the safety was opposite between the type 1's & later, that they wouldnt. but goodwork on finding that out, its handy to know.

Is it glass bedded, as yet? i suppose you will wait for a heavy barrel, first.

Im glad you mentioned the safety but I must admit comments and my OCD have turned what was an impulse buy and thoughts of creating a cheap sniper into an incrementally more expensive making of a toy.

I was surprised also the assemblies would so easily swap out. Not so much for the function but for the machining.. All three assemblies are interchangeable but Im not sure if individual parts are interchangeable amongst assemblies.

Function wise, and for the most part manufacture, an M70 is nothing but a Springfield 03. On the 03 there are reverse safety assemblies that were direct replacements. Competition shooters favored them as it swung the blade over to the right and shooters that went nose to receiver wouldn't get whacked by the blade on recoil.

Maybe another WRA/Springfield similarity except Winchester didn't change safeties as a function issue Im guessing more likely a cost matter.

The one detail bothering me now is the barrel tension screw in the forearm. USMC snipers in Sporter stocks were from WRA with the heavy target barrel and those rifles did not have the tension adjustment. So I want to get that hole in the stock plugged. There are guys that do invisible stock repairs using old GI walnut for repair wood. I need to find one of them.

I think I know where Im going for blue printing. This party has a target rifle receiver and has offered to take my receiver and his to a local machinist to replicate the clip slot after blueprinting

Barrel will be a Douglas heavy to represent a rifle that had been rebarreled.

Kind of concerned about the amount of wood that will be hogged out but it worked for the USMC and I haven't seen anything that suggests the WRA match barrel sporter stocks differed from the standard stock save for the tension screw.

Probably use Steve Earle scope blocks.

Actively looking for a Unertl 1-1/4 inch Target in 8, 10 or 12X. There is a specific era of scope I want that used recessed screws at the middle lens cell.

Bed per spec but give the builder option to use Marine tex or something easier to work than bisonite.

Shooting accuracy will matter more than historical accuracy. Its just a fake toy but it must shoot..

I guess finish was hot blue based on the rebbareled one in the NRA museum

So had I thought about it a little more I might not have built off of this rifle. The GI look of the stock and the fact it retains the steel butt, otherwise unmolested, is what sucked me in. A M70 sniper though something I wanted, it wasn't something I had anywhere near top of my list but here I am.

Ill be shooting it today pics later.

 

[pmclaine]

My build list below. If anyone has a photographic memory and has specific details regarding barrel crown for a Douglas replacement barreled rifle, metal finishes, etc. Please advise. Comments/Crticism also appreciated.....

What I want...

1. Blueprint action
2. Clip slot if possible and not cost prohibitive. Absolute historical accuracy is not required in this build (shooting accuracy is required). If the cost is reasonable it would be a nice touch but I will never attach irons and conduct a rapid fire drill.
3. Finish/Install Douglas heavy contour CM barrel. In the past builders have wanted a blank and they would thread the shank and finish the crown so they are sure the blueprinted threads/barrel match. I ask your preference on ordering the barrel - should I order a blank or is it preferred Douglas send a short chambered ready fit barrel.
4. Building a shooting accurate rifle is more important than a historically accurate rifle. I want the silhouette to be 1966 USMC but if underneath pillars and modern bedding materials create a better shooting rifle lets do it. I understand the original bisonite the Marines used is sort of a pain to work with so lets use advanced technology where it wont be seen.
5. Open the stock channel to accept the Douglas heavy. Im assuming my standard Sporter stock has the same dimensions as the WRA USMC rifles shipped with the match contour barrels and there is enough wood to take the barrel.
6. Match bed. Install pillars if it will add to shooting accuracy.
7. Crown barrel to match USMC spec.
8. Install blocks for Unertl scope to achieve 1/4 MOA adjustments. I can order Steve Earle blocks. I assume the USMC probably reused the WRA blocks taken off the match barrels they were replacing. If you have proper blocks Ill buy from you.
9. Refinish all metal to match USMC rebuild. Im assuming they hot blued.

I want to get the hole in the stock for the barrel tension screw plugged. I know there are guys on the CMP forums that do magical invisible repairs on much more difficult jobs using old vintage walnut from GI stocks. I can get it done before sending the gun or if its something you can do Ill leave it for you to plug.

Im looking for a Unertl 1-1/4" Target in 8, 10, 12X to scope this rifle. Im particular about getting one that matches appearance of the USMC 8X but a real USMC scope is cost prohibitive. I come across what Im looking for once in a while and will be patient.

Any USMC spec details you need I can research them. Again I only want spec for the external appearances inside I want accuracy.

 

[pmclaine]

First three shots were off paper. Two things were at work I think to create the misses.

1. I had decoppered the barrel
2. I had no idea what setting the rear buckhorns were on. I started out at three steps up on the elevator as it came from Cabelas.

Fourth shot hit paper high so I dropped the elevator one and got another high below the first one. So I brought the elevator down to the last step and hit black. Than I just started flinging them. Looks like the favor left but they did okay for being shot by a guy that had a clear front sight but not much could be seen of the black and the slight line of white I was trying to hold.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/i.imgur.com\/92mDVV4l.jpg"}[/IMG2]

What was nice is how well the magazine of the Winchester works. Its M1903 Springfield solid. My Remington followers seem to float and if you are not careful you screw the pooch loading them in.





Its a light rifle. For every hit Carlos gave he got a little bit back. With a 6 pound Douglas in front of the receiver that should tame some recoil Id think.

 

[Spaghetti Western]

Once an action undegoes truing, it becomes pretty obligatory that any new barrel belonging to that action is threaded/fitted to match the new oversized dimensions. Therefore its is highly unlikely (read, wont*) any nominal prefit barrell will ever fit that trued action, acceptably again.

So for mine, it would be a given to work from a fresh barrell blank.

As for barrell specs i can only comment on the factory Winchester "medium/heavy" contour as it was known, which is 1.140"Ø parallel for 2.000", then straight taper to a .780" finish @ 24" (Chrome Molybdenum). The contour for the model 70 "Bull gun" was heavier and longer again.
The factory crown on the target models was dead flat, with the inside and outside edge lightly broken (this also seems to match any usmc ref pics & seinichs research).

As you will be aware, by 1966-68 the USMC model 70 examples weren't new rifles and once the factory barrels had worn out they were fitted with Hart and Douglas air gauged match barrels, (probably close but not necessarily of the same dimensions). Would be worth seeing what contours Douglas actually offered in that era & select one that is similar to Winchester spec?

 

[pmclaine]

Once an action undegoes truing, it becomes pretty obligatory that any new barrel belonging to that action is threaded/fitted to match the new oversized dimensions. Therefore its is highly unlikely (read, wont*) any nominal prefit barrell will ever fit that trued action, acceptably again.

So for mine, it would be a given to work from a fresh barrell blank.

As for barrell specs i can only comment on the factory Winchester "medium/heavy" contour as it was known, which is 1.140"Ø parallel for 2.000", then straight taper to a .780" finish @ 24" (Chrome Molybdenum). The contour for the model 70 "Bull gun" was heavier and longer again.
The factory crown on the target models was dead flat, with the inside and outside edge lightly broken (this also seems to match any usmc ref pics & seinichs research).

As you will be aware, by 1966-68 the USMC model 70 examples weren't new rifles and once the factory barrels had worn out they were fitted with Hart and Douglas air gauged match barrels, (probably close but not necessarily of the same dimensions). Would be worth seeing what contours Douglas actually offered in that era & select one that is similar to Winchester spec?

I'm going to go for the rebarreled look with a Douglas. Their barrels are a straight taper to a .87 muzzle finish - a bit beefy. The weight will hopefully tame the rifle some.

They do make a Winchester spec barrel if I wanted to build a rifle prior to rebuild.

In the photos above original WRA barrels have the front sight block. The picture of the 3rd Mar Div sniper in the high kneeling with forearm support appears to be fielding a Douglas barrel.

Talking to the builder it has been decided he will true and fit the barrel from a blank.

 

[Spaghetti Western]

.870" is quite the truck axle

Try as I might, I've never found any definitive info/drawings for the Winchester clipslot. There was some conjecture that the machining details for the WinM70 were the same for the Remington700/M40, however i dont remember whether this was found to be true or not, it just sounded a little too convenient for me.
Best bet would be to send your action to someone with a factory clipslotted pre-64 action for reference, to do the machining.

As for bedding, i'd definitely go "all out" below the stockline, so pillars & glass bedding etc. ostensibly it will look correct, no-one will know any differently.

Yes Steve Earle for the scope blocks, thats what ive got for my project, (though its still W.I.P)
below is from an email conversation i had with him, re model70's & the medium/heavy barrell
"The great Unertl chart lists a standard 1/4" block for the rear, and a B-70 block for the front. The B-70 is a long block with a hole spacing of 1.75". But it's only 1/4" high as well, and from my experience that has not been high enough. Generally we've been using C-70 on the front, which is higher by 1/16"."

 

[pmclaine]

This is great info there Angel Eyes, very helpful. Thank you.

(and for the uninformed there is nothing ghey about Angel Eyes, educate yourself).

The Rem/win clip slots are not the same. at least for the Rem there is a blue print in the public domain to follow but for a Win cut the proposed buidler is going to provide one of his early clip slotted actions to a Gunsmith/Machinist and let him do his best to copy it. The builder seems pretty excited about the project and has a friend with an original USMC sniper that he plans on bouncing specs off of based on his rifle.

Im in agreement with the hidden horsepower where it can not be seen and mess up the silhouette of the historical USMC profile, a "sleeper". The builder is a little leery of modifying an original stock, he has good ethics when it comes to it, but in this case Im building a better tribute gun its not like Im drilling holes in the receiver to mount a Burris Red Dot.

Ive sent an email to Steve Earle regarding blocks. Havenet heard from him but Im patient. Im guessing the USMC in its penny pinching manner tried to reuse the WRA blocks. I do know that Springfield 03/Unertyl combos are a bit high and you ride your chin on the stock more so than your cheek. These things need clearance for the bolt throw but you also have to balance that with being able to shoot the rifle. The bolt has to clear though and Ill have no problem throwing a Triad stock pack on if I need to get a real cheek weld in this case.

Thanks again Colonel Douglas Mortimer, keep the info coming.

 

[pmclaine]

.870" is quite the truck axle

I like my gun barrels big enough to use as baseball bats if the need arises....

 

[sandwarrior]

pmc, ...and spaghetti western,

Thanks for the pics and posts on this topic. yesterday I went to the range to shoot my Win 70 that I had rebarreled to 6.5 Creed. .875 seems like a truck axle but really it's not that bad. Not when you consider, I didn't want to spend the extra $60-$90 to turn it down. What I saved in money and gained in weight, redoubled my peace of mind knowing that recoil is mitigated and accuracy is held truer.

FWIW, back before we moved to scout ...... someone had posted the dimensions of Hathcocks rear ring on his tribute rifle. Keep in mind that will be different than the one you have pmc as PRF and CRF actions are different lengths.

 

[pmclaine]

pmc, ...and spaghetti western,

Thanks for the pics and posts on this topic. yesterday I went to the range to shoot my Win 70 that I had rebarreled to 6.5 Creed. .875 seems like a truck axle but really it's not that bad. Not when you consider, I didn't want to spend the extra $60-$90 to turn it down. What I saved in money and gained in weight, redoubled my peace of mind knowing that recoil is mitigated and accuracy is held truer.

FWIW, back before we moved to scout ...... someone had posted the dimensions of Hathcocks rear ring on his tribute rifle. Keep in mind that will be different than the one you have pmc as PRF and CRF actions are different lengths.

Im not trying to make a copy of the rifle the Gunny was presented by PWS (though I missed a golden chance to as there was a long action Smear McMillan in the for sale section a month or so ago).

Im making a Vietnam sniper based on the CRF actions that the USMC had bought back around 1942 or so.

Mine will be an impression of one of those rebarreled with a Douglas heavy.

Ill need to cut a clip slot and even than there are some differences in the tang.

Some details will have to slip by.

 

[sandwarrior]

​​​

 

[pmclaine]

Very Nice Sand.

I see a stock bolt, magnum action?

Oxide that barrel black and we will be brothers from another mother.

You from the less straight, Monte Carlo side of the family.

I like how that bull barrel makes that stock foretip just disappear as the mass of the barrel swallows it up.

 

[sandwarrior]

pmc,

That's actually a standard PRF long action (they didn't make short actions until 1985). The fore-end is actually reduced somewhat as I hogged out the barrel channel with sandpaper and a dowel.

I'm getting really frustrated with this bullshit of being unable to post my groups from Saturday!
Finally!!

The group the Winchester put out is the five shot hole down and to the right of the center. The bottom-center, left low-center and left high-center are my Savage 10FCP. The lone hole between groups is my 25-20. Same as the upper three.

Funny how stock fit meant so much on Saturday. I got in behind the Winchester and everything felt solid. Even though the bags were frozen. The composite stock on the Savage, even though it's the good one, slid all over the place on those frozen bags.

 

[pmclaine]

Yes the 70s were all same receiver they just had different capacities to handle length of round.

Good info here....

https://pre64win.com/blogs/welcome-t...286-first-post

 

[sandwarrior]

Yes the 70s were all same receiver they just had different capacities to handle length of round.

Good info here....

https://pre64win.com/blogs/welcome-t...286-first-post

All pre-'64's are the same length, as that article states. Pre-'64's and Post-'63's are different length actions. I do not know if the post-'94 (year, not model number) model 70 is the same as the pre-'64.

 

[pmclaine]

Not a student of the 70.

Just saw an opportunity and jumped on it.

Douglas truck axle ordered today.

 

[sandwarrior]

Not a student of the 70.

Just saw an opportunity and jumped on it.

Douglas truck axle ordered today.

Well I gotta say, I like what you are doing. The model 70's I own and ones in the past have been outstanding for accuracy. Having one made up like the historic example gives it a pretty cool edge, if you ask me.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

My own 90's vintage .30-'06 70's Sporter (I call it a Featherweight B/C it was bought used and had an ancient B&C synthetic stock that was very lightweight), was surprising, shooting a pretty consistent 1MOA out to 300yd with 168FGMM, clone FGMM equivalent 168SRA handloads, and very similar 165gr SRA GameKing handloads. All in all it shot well enough to be a constant pleasant surprise, placing high in NJ State Sniper Comp (1997), and winning every deer rifle match it ever entered. I gave it to my Son-In-Law when we moved down to AZ and it's harvested six deer since.

No argument, I miss it. I have a Savage Axis 2 .30-'06 that I'm trying to develop, and it looks like its going to be a long road...

Greg

 

[cplnorton]

Im thinking I saw pictures of some sporter stocks that retained their checkering. The pic I posted of the USMC sniper is dark and I can't tell if it's checkered. I don't think checkering was ever included on the target and team stocks.

As it is I can live with it. The wood is what attracted me to the rifle. I love the mil spec red. Had it been glossy like most of these are I wouldn't have bought it.

Trying to discern what the best linseed oil to use to continue the red oxidation would be. I usually use pure tung oil on my stocks, which may not be a bad choice here as it tends to stay the color of whatever it is on, linseed can go black and I don't want that.

Funny that as soon as this came to the register it became the most popular rifle in the place. No one noticed I guess for the two weeks it was there previously.

I am a firm believer that the story of the Model 70's and the Marines is missing a crucial detail. At least what we can find at the archives, the story doesn't match the books. But many of those documents are not declassified yet so it will be years before we know 100% what really happened.

Here is a clearer version of the Lance Corporal that shows the stock is indeed checkered. Somewhere I have a really high def version of this pic, I'm just not sure where I put it. It is my understanding the only uncheckered sporter stocks show up on the Van Ordens. Which the Marines only ordered a handful from him. The Vietnam pics I have seen that show any detail either show the target stock or the Sporter stock that is checkered.

 

[pmclaine]

I am a firm believer that the story of the Model 70's and the Marines is missing a crucial detail. At least what we can find at the archives, the story doesn't match the books. But many of those documents are not declassified yet so it will be years before we know 100% what really happened.

Here is a clearer version of the Lance Corporal that shows the stock is indeed checkered. Somewhere I have a really high def version of this pic, I'm just not sure where I put it. It is my understanding the only uncheckered sporter stocks show up on the Van Ordens. Which the Marines only ordered a handful from him. The Vietnam pics I have seen that show any detail either show the target stock or the Sporter stock that is checkered.

Sweet. Thank you for all the help.

Looks like he has his safety on also. Just sighting in making shore the previous evenings fog didnt render his scope unusable probably. Interesting.

 

[pmclaine]

Anyone know what height scope blocks Winchester shipped the 41-42 year guns with?

The Lance Corporal looks to be using an M70 that has been rebarreled with a Douglas #7. That is the style rifle my project will end up representing.

Did the Marines just recycle the blocks from the thinner barreled WRA originals or did they use a different height block because the Douglas barrel had a different profile?

Most of my shooting will be within 300 yards but Id like to be able to dial for 1000 yards on occasion.

It would be nice if when I get setup I can operate the bolt with good clearance from the scope and at my regular short ranges I can get a cheek weld not a chin weld.

 

[cplnorton]

Anyone know what height scope blocks Winchester shipped the 41-42 year guns with?

The 373 model 70 shipment in 1942 were just standard hunting rifles with standard barrels and open sights. They wouldn't have had any scope blocks on them.

The consensus is that these standard sporter rifles, had the sporter barrels removed, the stock channel opened up, and a target barrel installed. Then the blocks would have been added.

I honestly don't know on the douglas barrels. All the take off barrels I have seen or seen on rifles that I think might be real USMC model 70's have been the factory 50's dated WRA barrels. 1952, and 1956 seem to be the most common. I know the Marines did use some Douglas barrels on model 70's. Some have been for sure Marine take offs, but I honestly don't know what era they were used. Or any specs on them really. I'm guessing the 60s or later, maybe even into the 70's. But I honestly don't know.

The pics in Nam, on the ones you can tell the blocks, they seem to be the U shaped factory WRA scope blocks. Which would make sense. I have so many orders where the Marines ordered not only rifles but parts from WRA. My first orders from WRA that I have found to the Marines were in 1917 and I have them way past WWII. Heck the Marines were even ordering Winchester target barrels for 1903 rifles from WRA. They were heavy barrels that were like 26 or 28'' barrels.

But in that famous pic when you blow it up you can see the U shape of the WRA blocks. Which WRA made like three different heights. One tall one for the sporter barrel, one medium for the regular target barrel, and this is the one I think you want. And the shorter one for the heavier bull barrel.

Here you can see the U shape WRA blocks and it looks like the medium one to me. The .360. The .360 is also on my Model 70 from the RTE shop around 1971.