Winchester M70

[Forgetful Coyote]

Check out the channel's other vids also, they're all really good IMO

Anywho just curious cplnorton maybe ya know maybe not, but with the Remington 720, were they pretty much all obtained by the Navy? Or were there a good amount that made it into civvie hands? Ie they rare enough that it would be sacrilege to have a bit of custom work done to one(trigger, barrel, bedding...)?

https://youtu.be/XYX4Ce6vzHw

 

[pmclaine]

Have all the parts ordered or in hand, waiting on my receiver scope block. Hopefully box this up soon and send it off for building.

A local collector has a few excess Unertls on hand and he is going to drop them off at my local shop hopefully one will be a 1-1/4" Combination Target.

Been working on another Winchester project - adding 1 inch Model 70 sling swivels to my kids Winchester 67A .22 caliber "Boys Rifle". Giving them some M1907 slings so they can pack their rifles while snow shoeing this weekend.

Stripped the walnut on their stocks also and Im in to the 7th or 8th application of linseed oil.

Looking like mini USMC snipers minus the optic.

 

[sandwarrior]

Have all the parts ordered or in hand, waiting on my receiver scope block. Hopefully box this up soon and send it off for building.

A local collector has a few excess Unertls on hand and he is going to drop them off at my local shop hopefully one will be a 1-1/4" Combination Target.

Been working on another Winchester project - adding 1 inch Model 70 sling swivels to my kids Winchester 67A .22 caliber "Boys Rifle". Giving them some M1907 slings so they can pack their rifles while snow shoeing this weekend.

Stripped the walnut on their stocks also and Im in to the 7th or 8th application of linseed oil.

Looking like mini USMC snipers minus the optic.

Looking forward to seeing this done! Still like to see all the stages you can show us, though. Cool project, pmc.

 

[pmclaine]

Looking forward to seeing this done! Still like to see all the stages you can show us, though. Cool project pmc.

Didn't think you would be that interested in my kids .22s........I will keep you updated.

 

[sandwarrior]

Didn't think you would be that interested in my kids .22s........I will keep you updated.

...that too.

 

[pmclaine]

Before



Got to use my seldom used vice which made me feel "capable"

Stripped

With Model 70 inch sling swivels mocked up

First coat of oil drying in the boiler room

Many coats later done.....

 

[pmclaine]

Getting ready to send off my M70 for build. This is my build sheet.....

Win Model 70 Build


1. Blueprint/true receiver and bolt - https://pre64win.com/collections/services/products/action-blueprinting
https://pre64win.com/collections/services/products/action-blueprinting

2. Cut clip slot in receiver, Drill/Tap a new forward hole so a mount for different scope is still an option. The drill and tap will require more discussion to find a base that will fit. I have a Redfield 70A base but I think when the clip slot is cut it will wipe out the front hole. These rifles pictured are USMC rifles that Marine armorers have drilled and tapped the rear bridge, unknown what bases they mounted in place.

I want the option to do this in the future

Truth be told Im contemplating not doing the clip slot in order to allow the mounting of a Redfield base if desired.

 

[pmclaine]

3. Install/chamber/extractor cut/finish crown on Douglas barrel- https://pre64win.com/collections/services/products/barrel-installation?variant=54812126101

a. Length -26 inch overall length, 25.5 inches from lug/receiver shoulder. Barrel on top is an in the white Shooting team take off. Barrel on the bottom is a Douglas field rifle take off.

b. Recessed crown as shown on barrel to the right. Exact dimensions pending.

c. USMC markings on barrel

Date of install you can of course use 2018 and other markings as ATF requires you to use.

d. Example of USMC extractor cuts, yours will probably look a lot better

e. Drill/tap for front iron sight mount even though USMC did not add a block on their Douglas barrels.

The USMC did it and right now my inclination is to also do it but this is another detail I may skip.

f. Match 30-06 chamber capable of taking 175 SMKs. I’ll probably shoot a lot of 168 SMKs also.

 

[pmclaine]

4. Install front and rear scope blocks for ¼ inch adjustments on a Unertl – 7.2 spacing. See photo of USMC rifle with scope mounted for correct mount option the Marines used.

5. Open barrel channel in Sporter stock to accept Douglas barrel
a. Use screw as a “dummy” to fill barrel tension screw hole in its present location. See pictures of known USMC rifle. Looks like Marines used the flat hidden front trigger bow screw with an escutcheon to fill the hole. Im fine with using existing tension screw and nut to fill the hole.

6. Match bed stock for barreled action/bottom metal. Give me specs for proper recommended torque on action screw. The Douglas is a heavy barrel. If pillars can be installed to help hang that barrel/better insure accuracy lets do pillars.

 

[pmclaine]

7. Reblue - For bluing descriptions reference these photos

a. Barrel will be satin blue - Top Barrel in picture of three barrels

b. Bolt body/handle/extractor/shroud/safety blade will be satin blue- Same as Top Barrel

c. Receiver, trigger bow, mag box, mag plate, butt plate, sling swivels will be beaded/iron plate blue - Same as two trigger bows on the right and the mag floor plate on top.


Things to be decided.....

1. Clip slot
2. front iron sight drill/tap
3. Pillars

 

[pmclaine]

Damn all pictures wont show unless you are using Firefox with the Photobucket fix patch.

 

[pmclaine]

In order to see all the pictures Ive stolen online you need to add the Photobucket Fix patches and run either Firefox or Chrome as your browser.

Firefox patch here....

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/photobucket-fix/?src=cb-dl-created

Chrome patch here....

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/photobucket-hotlink-fix/kegnjbncdcliihbemealioapbifiaedg


Thanks to SteveU for making me aware of this fix.

 

[pmclaine]

At Fed Ex, the count down begins.......

I decided against clip slotting and muzzle drill/taps.

Its only a faux sniper so why eliminate the option to mount a 3-9X Redfield if I choose to do so.

 

[sandwarrior]

pmc,

Unless I missed it somewhere, did you get a timeline on when this would be put together? It's getting tough walking around on pins and needles waiting to see this cool project come together and get fired.

 

[pmclaine]

Maybe mid March, perhaps a bit later, possibly earlier.

Between now and than.

 

[sandwarrior]

Somewhere in the near future you say?

 

[pmclaine]

Certainly in the future but but how soon depends on what your definition of near is.

I keep checking the FedEx tracking and the rifle is somewhere in IN. Builder won't get it till Wednesday and he is still in the process of finishing up a build in progress.

It will be here in due time. It's actually going pretty fast compared to a .223 M40 I'm having built with a Bartlein barrel.

I bought that Bartlein blank about a month before the Winchester was even on the radar. Only three more months to go waiting for the Bartlein to ship to me according to them.

 

[jwhjwh54]

Cool thread! I just ordered a new m70 super grade in 06 and this thread is making me get really impatient to get it in my hands!

 

[pmclaine]

Its at the builder but Im guessing a month or more out before its in my hands.

Builder has stated he will send pics of build in progress. I will update.

Thing will be a beast with that Douglas barrel.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

x2 Douglas barrels have been REAL hot lately in 1000yd benchrest, theyre putting out some screamers for sure. Its always been somewhat of a mystery how Douglas came up with/found out about button rifling AFAIK. Ie theres a clear lineage with Hart learning from Mike Walker, but from everything Ive read, Douglas somehow came up with their own button rifling method all on their own mysteriously right around same time as Hart...? Ive seen some speculate that Douglas may have learned of it from Culver, who had a connection to Mike Walker..

 

[sandwarrior]

x2 Douglas barrels have been REAL hot lately in 1000yd benchrest, theyre putting out some screamers for sure. Its always been somewhat of a mystery how Douglas came up with/found out about button rifling AFAIK. Ie theres a clear lineage with Hart learning from Mike Walker, but from everything Ive read, Douglas somehow came up with their own button rifling method all on their own mysteriously right around same time as Hart...? Ive seen some speculate that Douglas may have learned of it from Culver, who had a connection to Mike Walker..

Button rifling goes back at least as far as the 6mm Lee Navy in the 1890's. I suspect it's one of those things where engineers who believe in whichever method are held down, while the glory method of the day is touted as THE greatest system ever. Mike Walker was a benchrest shooter and had button rifled barrels on some of his bench guns. But, Remington, who invested in hammer forging equipment, never put out a button rifled barrel. Nor, was Mike allowed to talk about it at the time. A fine example of big company, setting the standard and holding everyone to it.

FWIW, Winchester switched over to hammer forging at the '63-'64 year. One of the things that was never put out besides the design changes was the process changes. And yes, accuracy did decrease from the cut rifled barrels. Winchesters worst mistake was to take their branding and try to compete with Remingtons cheap processes.

Then again, too many riflemen never stop to think what is necessary accuracy and how much money do we want to spend to get it. Most everybody I've ever known somehow hopes for an off the shelf rifle that will produce and reproduce a screamer. Not possible without spending extra manufacturing processes to get it done.

 

[pmclaine]

The beginning...

 

[pmclaine]

 

[pmclaine]

x2 Douglas barrels have been REAL hot lately in 1000yd benchrest, theyre putting out some screamers for sure. Its always been somewhat of a mystery how Douglas came up with/found out about button rifling AFAIK. Ie theres a clear lineage with Hart learning from Mike Walker, but from everything Ive read, Douglas somehow came up with their own button rifling method all on their own mysteriously right around same time as Hart...? Ive seen some speculate that Douglas may have learned of it from Culver, who had a connection to Mike Walker..

Builder is impressed with Douglas" uniformity.

He has gauged it and found something like .0002 of error from center bore to outside diameter. He finds that exceptional manufacturing.

I wouldnt know what good numbers are and Im assuming with his experience he does.

States he is pretty confident this barrel will shoot well.

 

[pmclaine]

Rough chambered

Last time I saw a tube finished that nice was when I held my newborn sons hand on the circumcision board.

Should start getting interesting now with either crown or blue print of receiver coming up.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

I'll eventually do something cool with my Pre-War Model 70.

 

[pmclaine]

I'll eventually do something cool with my Pre-War Model 70.

Was it Russian lend lease?

Post it up lets see what you are planning on doing.

If its not a ragged out pre war though I wouldnt do anything to it.

Pre64win.com is your friend if it needs anything.

 

[sandwarrior]

Was it Russian lend lease?

Post it up lets see what you are planning on doing.

If its not a ragged out pre war though I wouldnt do anything to it.

Pre64win.com is your friend if it needs anything.

There's one I didn't know. I knew Remmy built 91/30's for them.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Not sure how big yall are on shooting vids and such but I enjoy em for the entertainment when I cant be out shooting in real life, so figured Id post this up - hickok45 w/ pre-war M70:

 

[SunuvaButch]

It snowed last night....

What does that have to do with a Winchester M70?

Well I took the day off work and my daughter and I went to my gun club because they were doing their monthly breakfast and she likes going up there for these events.

What she likes is going over to the seldom used trap range and scouring the field for unbroken clays that we can load in the flingers and send sailing. This time I figured Id bring an older Browning A5/Sweet 16 Id never fired and try to fire up some clays.

Well it snowed last night and we were not going to find any clays.

So I though "Hmmmm, Cabelas is mere minutes away" and we were in the truck heading to Cabelas to buy clays, me hoping they were not expensive. Do you guys know you get more than 100 of those things for $13!

Well that was cheap but while there I thought lets check out the Gun Library. First thing I saw was a Garand with about 3 inches cut from the buttstock end creating this "stumpy" stock Garand priced at $1300. The Library guy wasnt impressed when I said a little too loud "There is an expensive Garand".

But along the wall was a 30-06 M70 Sporter, Pre 64, Serial is in the 150K range. The stock on this rifle spoke to me. Its a nice red Military spec linseed oil finish, no shine just well loved by hand. The stock is pretty clean save for some handling marks and with a fresh coat of linseed it will glow. The metal is a matte blue looking almost like park on the receiver while the barrel is more of a semi gloss blue. The only thing polished blue appears to be the safety and shroud.

$999.99 was the price.

Im looking at this aborted Garand for $1300 and there is this Winchester that when you look up "Badass rifle" this is the picture you get.

Im thinking to hog out the sporter barrel channel, replace with a Douglas in the USMC profile, add some blocks, presto chango a Unertl and Im good to go.

Didnt buy it today but put it on hold. Salesguy said he would be interested in a last ditch Arisaka I have. Im thinking if I can get it for $800 even thats not a bad deal for a great start to a Hathcock tribute.

Any advice what to look for?

I did note the sling swivels are only about 3/4" maybe 1" opening. How hard is it to find 1-1/4 or 1-1/2 to mount an M1907 sling?

I harass the gun ninjas at cabelas at EVERY opportunity. Kudos lol

 

[pmclaine]

Some new pictures, barrel complete, bluing next week......

My absolute favorite part of any rifle.......

Very happy with my builder, his decisions and his communication.

Current decision is whether or not i want to mount a muzzle front sight block and buy some irons to seldom use but have on hand.

Finding my 1.25" Unertl has not been easy but I know it will come. I have a Redfield 70 base and Rings in case I want to mount a Redfield 3-9X.

If I add the irons thats another option and in a world were Murphy rules could come in handy.

 

[RTH1800]

Phil,

You going to use a ramrod or get the extractor cut done?

Nice looking set up.

 

[pmclaine]

Phil,

You going to use a ramrod or get the extractor cut done?

Nice looking set up.

HA, ha!

Right after I posted "finished barrel" I thought someone is going to note the lack of extractor cut.

Your were a little quicker than I figured but you know your guns better than most.

The builder showed me the jig he uses to perform the extractor cut. Its a sweet setup and it will put a perfect timed cut at the appropriate time.

If not Ill use my new Borka emergency cleaning rod and run it like a muzzle loader in reverse.

I hope you are well sir!

 

[sandwarrior]

I feel remiss in not commenting about the barrel back on the 7th. I like the countoured down barrels of that day. Heavy, but not a big solid bar like some of my rifles that didn't get the barrel turned down and shoot like a house afire.

And, yeah the ramrod/extractor cut is funny

 

[pmclaine]

I feel remiss in not commenting about the barrel back on the 7th. I like the countoured down barrels of that day. Heavy, but not a big solid bar like some of my rifles that didn't get the barrel turned down and shoot like a house afire.

And, yeah the ramrod/extractor cut is funny

Thats not this barrel.....it will be a truck axle.

 

[sandwarrior]

Thats not this barrel.....it will be a truck axle.

Ahh!...so you are getting big fat heavy barrels like mine that are a pain in the ass to pack around...

 

[RTH1800]

Those Winchester Marksman barrels are actually not bad to pack at all. Very similar to the common Rem. Varmint contour.

 

[sandwarrior]

Those Winchester Marksman barrels are actually not bad to pack at all. Very similar to the common Rem. Varmint contour.

Not to mention, all you really need for barrel stiffness. I've been told many times I overdid it with the barrels being too big. I have to tell people at that point, I was really just too cheap to turn them down.

 

[jwhjwh54]

not vintage but picked up a 3006 super grade and put a Swarovski with a ballistic turret on it. Should be a heck of a hunting rife from 0-500
Taking it to the range tomorrow to zero and try out some factory rounds then will load up some of my own once I see what weight it likes

 

[pmclaine]

Wood + iron = wood

 

[sandwarrior]

Wood + iron = wood

No, it equals W.O.O.D. (wooden operational offensive device)

not vintage but picked up a 3006 super grade and put a Swarovski with a ballistic turret on it. Should be a heck of a hunting rife from 0-500
Taking it to the range tomorrow to zero and try out some factory rounds then will load up some of my own once I see what weight it likes

it'll work well for that. But, don't forget, while you may not win any big shooting contests with it, it'll also be a good teacher out to 1k.

Don't let it languish in the back of the safe waiting for hunting season.

 

[sandwarrior]

So, to bring this thread to life again, any word of the progress being made pmc?

 

[pmclaine]

Should be bluing this week.

Unsure if he has done any receiver work yet.

If I get word I post right away.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

not vintage but picked up a 3006 super grade and put a Swarovski with a ballistic turret on it. Should be a heck of a hunting rife from 0-500
Taking it to the range tomorrow to zero and try out some factory rounds then will load up some of my own once I see what weight it likes

Is the barrel free floating? Beautiful rifle btw
@pmclaine - check out some of Joel Russo's stuff. He makes some super awesome custom stocks that, while wood, are at the same time still very modern and just as functional as any Mcmillan or chassis.
http://www.russoriflestocks.com/

 

[pmclaine]

Got my rear receiver sight......

It looks NOS and has the screws, will go nice with the freshly finished rifle...

I do believe the WH would be more appropriate but as these are intended more as a true BUIS rather than a primary it should do what I want and give me a 100-200 yard option.

Hoping the elevation screw clears the wood but thinking Ill need to relieve a little wood just to give that screw some area to move in to.

Another seller will be contacting me today regarding a WH he has, Ill be bummed if its as nice as this one.

Builder tells me bluing some steel this week, pics to follow.

 

[cplnorton]

I do believe the WH would be more appropriate .

In 1954, the Marine team rifle model 70's are listed as having the 48WH as the rear sight, and the front is an AK block with a 77WRA sight.

But I think use what you can find. I wouldn't get too wrapped up into iron sights. You want that telescopic sight on there anyways.

 

[pmclaine]

In 1954, the Marine team rifle model 70's are listed as having the 48WH as the rear sight, and the front is an AK block with a 77WRA sight.

But I think use what you can find. I wouldn't get too wrapped up into iron sights. You want that telescopic sight on there anyways.

I still may have a WH in line but this set was so minty it called me.

It will get me SR capability and as a bonus I dont think the elevator screw will require the wood be relieved.

You are right though this is a scoped rifle.

As an aside got all my parts for a .223 M40 build yesterday.

Last builder I used to build me an M40ish rifle has retired. He set the bar so high on the quality of that build I feel Ill be disappointed by anyone else.

The 70 builder Im using has been great but 70s seem to be his niche.

 

[pmclaine]

We have some satin blue.....

 

[sandwarrior]

We have some satin blue.....

View attachment 6887220

Interesting he makes the extractor cut after the bluing.

 

[pmclaine]

Interesting he makes the extractor cut after the bluing.

I'm wondering about the block taps too.....