Winchester Model 70 250-3000 SAV

[Charger442]

After many years of looking, I finally was able to bring home a Pre-64 , 1946, Winchester Model 70 in the very rare and exceptional 250-3000. This gun isn't perfect, drilled bridge, cut down barrel to "carbine length" but I do love this gun and how handy it is . I have not shot it yet, as I have had to swap around a few of my scope blocks.

Thanks to @RTH1800 for the Fecker 7x . It's perfect at 16" for this "short" gun. I have a couple unertls I might swap on later, but the 15x is too much for this. The gun also had a paur of weaver bases installed and I found a nice Weaver V8 that would match nicely. Ok, Here's the pictures.

 

[bpd459]

Greetings,
That is a perfect, clean working rifle.
john

 

[Skunk]

Beautiful piece of wood. Outstanding all around!

 

[RTH1800]

Lovely! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Charger442]

Greetings,
That is a perfect, clean working rifle.
john

Not "perfect" but good enough for me. I've seen 50 examples of this rifle over the last 15-20 years. I missed out on a very nice one maybe 15 years ago but most since then have been swiss cheesed on the action and then the prices have skyrocketed. This example suites me well

 

[Aftermath]

That's a real nice looking rifle!

 

[camocorvette]

That looks beautiful. I'll have to look up the 250-3000 cartridge as I've never seen one. Was that a precursor to the 300 savage or just another cartridge?

 

[Downtown]

Once had a Savage Model 99 in 250 Savage. Great whitetail cartridge. Piece of useless trivia, it was the parent cartridge of the 22-250 Remington.

 

[RTH1800]

Similar but basically unrelated. Both fit the mod 99 Savage and short action bolt rifles like the Savage 1920 and Kurtz Mauser.
Both great cartridges.

 

[Charger442]

That looks beautiful. I'll have to look up the 250-3000 cartridge as I've never seen one. Was that a precursor to the 300 savage or just another cartridge?

It was the first wildcat cartridge, it took the 30-06 and necked down to .257 and was the first cartridge to break 3000 fps, thus the .250-3000 designation.

It was an 87 grain bullet doing 3000 fps.

And yes Savage put it in the model 1920 and the model 99. It's an incredible deer cartridge, I've personally killed a big bodied deer out to 350 yards. But no exit.

Edit- the 300 savage was derived from the 250 savage, about 5 years after the 250s inception

 

[camocorvette]

That's awesome to learn. Thank you!

 

[RTH1800]

The .250 does not share the sharp shoulder straight body and short neck of the 300 Savage. It’s similar in length and case head diameter only.

The 300 Savage was generations ahead of its time.

 

[Charger442]

The .250 does not share the sharp shoulder straight body and short neck of the 300 Savage. It’s similar in length and case head diameter only.

The 300 Savage was generations ahead of its time.

I fixed the typo in my post

 

[Downtown]

I believe Newton used the 30-06 as the parent case for the 250.

.250-3000 Savage - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[sirhrmechanic]

That is just sexy... don't change a thing!

Yup... been altered. So what. Alterations are period. So while it makes the gun something less in the eyes of purists, it makes the gun useful in the field at levels that 'purists' won't appreciate.

Shoot the heck out of it! It's everything cool about a pre-64... cool caliber. Cool modifications. Gorgeous condition. Field gun x 1000!

Great score and congrats!!! Do let us know how it shoots. I bet it shoots holes in holes!

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I believe Newton used the 30-06 as the parent case for the 250.

.250-3000 Savage - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Hell Isaac Newton probably used it to study gravity!

It's one of the really cool early wildcats. Not sure it's the 'first.' But is certainly one of the precursors to the early days of wildcatting.

It's an utterly stunning rifle at every level. That optic is fantastic, too!

You could not have done better, @Charger442 . A stunning gun and one anyone here would be proud to own!

Sirhr

 

[Charger442]

That is just sexy... don't change a thing!

Yup... been altered. So what. Alterations are period. So while it makes the gun something less in the eyes of purists, it makes the gun useful in the field at levels that 'purists' won't appreciate.

Shoot the heck out of it! It's everything cool about a pre-64... cool caliber. Cool modifications. Gorgeous condition. Field gun x 1000!

Great score and congrats!!! Do let us know how it shoots. I bet it shoots holes in holes!

Sirhr

Will definitely let everyone know how it shoots, maybe today.

I patched the bore, not very dirty. Just like most hunting rifles of its day, if it saw 10 rounds a year, that was a lot of shooting.


I figured all y'all would enjoy seeing this. Its a nice compliment to my custom M70 A&M rifle in .257 Roberts.

Next quest will be a decent example in 220 swift

 

[Charger442]

Shooting update: not the groups I was hoping for. But not awful .Softest shooting 250 I've ever shot, going to clean the barrel good, try another scope maybe to rule that out. Was a decent headwind which could have hurt me. Ammo was new production Hornady 100 grain interlock. Group is to the right of node.

 

[RTH1800]

That rifle has a 1/14 twist and will not shoot 100 grain spitzers accurately. 87 grain bullets will tighten it right up.

 

[RTH1800]

Remember they were thought of as groundhog rifles.

 

[Charger442]

That rifle has a 1/14 twist and will not shoot 100 grain spitzers accurately. 87 grain bullets will tighten it right up.

Good call on the twist rate

 

[Charger442]

got some 87 grainers. a pleasure to shoot today

 

[RPN]

Did the groups tighten up vs the 100 grain?

 

[Charger442]

Did the groups tighten up vs the 100 grain?

yes, but got some weird results. i think because the ring spacing is less than the 7.25" that the adjustments are not fine enough. i also got the barrel pretty hot and i should have been more patient. about 1.5-2" at 100 with a 7x. some rounds were same hole. then id pitch a flyer.

 

[sandwarrior]

That looks beautiful. I'll have to look up the 250-3000 cartridge as I've never seen one. Was that a precursor to the 300 savage or just another cartridge?

The .250-3000 came about in 1914. The .300 Savage came about in 1920. Similar in design, but the .250 had a lot more taper in the case, and was just a smidge longer.

Added: That's a beautiful rifle BTW.
Added II: Both the .250 and .300 Savages have a .473 rim (12 mm) as Mausers had. The .250 was developed more in mind of the 7mm Mauser. The taper being that when you went to sharpen reamers you could bring them back to full size. Charles Newton who developed both for Savage (they were not wildcats, he was commisioned to develop them), used that theory for the .250 When he developed the .300 He felt it best he use the taper of the .30-06 in the body to better feed through the many rifles that were built for the .30-06. I don't know what sparked him, but the choice of a 30 deg. shoulder made it a very efficient cartridge. A great choice, IMO. The 1-14" twist of the .250 was used to take maximum accuracy advantage of the bullet Savage used to get the 3000 fps. Newton wanted a twist to stabilize the 120's that the .25-35 could shoot (1-10"). Anyways, Savage sold a bunch of this cartridge, as well as other manufacturers. Over the years, Savage increased the twist to 1-12" and in the 50's changed it again to 1-10"

 

[sgtsmmiii]

Beautiful rifle. Envious.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

yes, but got some weird results. i think because the ring spacing is less than the 7.25" that the adjustments are not fine enough. i also got the barrel pretty hot and i should have been more patient. about 1.5-2" at 100 with a 7x. some rounds were same hole. then id pitch a flyer.

Flyers sound either like loads…

Or your scope is not returning to zero.

Check mounts and lube on the springs etc. those old Unertls and Leitschert need to move freely!

That is such a sexy rifle!

Sirhr

 

[RTH1800]

My 250 S mod 70’s all shot stunningly with 87 grain ammo. I had 5-6 of them over the years.

 

[Charger442]

Flyers sound either like loads…

Or your scope is not returning to zero.

Check mounts and lube on the springs etc. those old Unertls and Leitschert need to move freely!

That is such a sexy rifle!

Sirhr

do need to relube. no return spring, just manually return to battery. I did forget to slide it back.

i might try a Unertl Vulture and see how it does

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Try a modern scope just to dial in load. The. Go back to vintage scope.

Those old sliders are really cool but they are finicky!

Sirhr

 

[roostercogburn98]

Them old guns still shoot, that’s a purdy rifle.

 

[RTH1800]

I really do not agree that those scopes are finicky. I do think they intimidate users who are unfamiliar with them.
If all else is sorted out I suspect the issue could be the old low comb stock and high line of sight is not permitting a firm and consistent cheek weld. If parallax is not perfectly adjusted this will cause unexplained flyers.
Might want to consider a tied on cheek piece.
If the bore is good and it's reasonable well bedded that rifle should shoot great. Make sure the middle action screw and the barrel tension screw are not tight. Either will create bending and loss of accuracy.

 

[Charger442]

I really do not agree that those scopes are finicky. I do think they intimidate users who are unfamiliar with them.
If all else is sorted out I suspect the issue could be the old low comb stock and high line of sight is not permitting a firm and consistent cheek weld. If parallax is not perfectly adjusted this will cause unexplained flyers.
Might want to consider a tied on cheek piece.
If the bore is good and it's reasonable well bedded that rifle should shoot great. Make sure the middle action screw and the barrel tension screw are not tight. Either will create bending and loss of accuracy.

i have no doubt i have some hand in the flyers. i may be imparting barrel stress pulling down on the front end into the front bag. mid scope adjustment seems to be working and sliding fine, its lubed and moves freely.

ill wring this thing out more in the coming months

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I really do not agree that those scopes are finicky. I do think they intimidate users who are unfamiliar with them.
If all else is sorted out I suspect the issue could be the old low comb stock and high line of sight is not permitting a firm and consistent cheek weld. If parallax is not perfectly adjusted this will cause unexplained flyers.
Might want to consider a tied on cheek piece.
If the bore is good and it's reasonable well bedded that rifle should shoot great. Make sure the middle action screw and the barrel tension screw are not tight. Either will create bending and loss of accuracy.

Yes, I agree and I should rephrase that.

It’s not that the scopes are finicky. It’s just that we set and forget types used to modern knobs and ball detentes… sometimes just don’t always use them as well as we should.

Cheers!