Evening folks. I lightened the trigger on my .270WSM two nights ago. I don't have a trigger pull gauge so Im not sure what its at right now. Im guessing just over a pound. Is it normal for a light trigger like that to fire when i bump tested it when the safety is off? I tried with it on and it will not fire. Is it ok or should I make it a little stronger pull? I did bump the butt a little hard to test. Its a newer model 70 too. Thanks for your input.
Gunsmithing Winchester model 70 trigger adjustment question.
- Thread starter countryguy
- Start date
Re: Winchester model 70 trigger adjustment question.
it should NOT go off until you actually pull the trigger.
what if you're in the field with it and stumble and hit the butt hard? hmmmmmm
it should NOT go off until you actually pull the trigger.
what if you're in the field with it and stumble and hit the butt hard? hmmmmmm
Re: Winchester model 70 trigger adjustment questio
hopefully nothing because my safety shall be on. it only does it off safe because the trigger is light.
hopefully nothing because my safety shall be on. it only does it off safe because the trigger is light.
Re: Winchester model 70 trigger adjustment questio
I don't mean to be inflammatory, but a question like this makes me question if YOU should be messing with the trigger on a firearm...or a bb gun....or even an airsoft. Your comment about simply keeping the rifle on "safe" is completely ignorant. Your rifle will (eventually, and probably sooner than later) fire as you turn the safety off.
Sorry for being inflammatory, but it's got to be said. This is SERIOUS business.
Not that I condone you messing with the trigger any more, but here is a better explanation of how to do this CORRECTLY, so that you can hopefully fix what you've got.
First off, if it's a "traditional" Win70 2-lever trigger, there is a headless screw that threads through an arm on the back of the trigger. That screw has 3 nuts on it. One below the trigger arm, and two above. Above the two nuts, there is a spring. There is a flat-blade screwdriver slot on the bottom side of the headless screw.
With this trigger:
1. sear engagement is not readily adjustable
2. the OEM trigger spring won't allow the trigger to be SAFELY adjustable below ~2.5lbs. Any lower and you're begging for an AD/ND.
3. The position of the screw itself, in relation to the trigger sets the amount of overtravel for the trigger.
4. The nut below the trigger arm cinches the screw in place.
5. The two nuts above the trigger arm are a jam-nut arrangement. The top one sets the trigger spring preload, and the bottom nut cinches against the top nut to hold it place.
<span style="font-weight: bold">6. There MUST, MUST, MUST be spring preload, to 100% guarantee the trigger itself will be in the furthest forward position it is mechanically able to be, when the bolt is being rotated down and locked into battery.</span>
I bet dollars and donuts your trigger is free to flop around a little when the bolt is out.... Am I wrong? That is because you have no preload on your trigger spring...
You can get away with a much lighter trigger pull with a lighter spring, that is PRELOADED!
The first thing you should do is set your overtravel. Set it so that the sear notch in the trigger will absolutely, positively clear the sear, regardless if you push sideways a little on your trigger or not.
The second thing to do is get some aftermarket/replacement springs. I actually have a chrome silicon spring about 10" long that I got from my local hardware store that is perfect. I cut a piece of it off about 3/16" longer than the OEM spring, and I install it. I play with the preload on it, and cut it down 1/2 coil a time until it's "right".
"Right" means the trigger is SPRUNG, and it won't flop around without the bolt in the action. Try it with the action held upside-down too. Hold it sideways, flick the trigger many times and be positive the trigger ALWAYS springs ALL THE WAY FORWARD, and never binds or is floppy.
Now, install the bolt on an EMPTY chamber (triple check it!). Dry fire a few times and get the feel for it. Cock the rifle and then slap the bolt into the locked position, in an attempt to "try" to cause the trigger/sear to lose engagement (this would cause a discharge if the rifle was loaded). Do this rifle pointed up, pointed down, sideways etc etc etc. Now test the safety. Turn it on and flick it off. Over and over again. Rifle pointed up, rifle pointed down, sideways etc etc etc.
Once you have thoroughly tested it, and are satisfied (meaning ZERO malfunctions/failures) apply a thin coat of epoxy or nail polish to the nuts on the trigger screw.
Take it to the range and try it out.
DO NOT PUT THE RIFLE INTO BATTERY UNTIL YOU'RE ON TARGET! This is a rule that should be always be followed, but with an untested fire-control system, it is even more crucial.
Thoroughly test the action by increasing the bolt-closure force, and also turning on/off the safety. Flick the safety hard, all the while, keeping the rifle ON TARGET.
Adjust as necessary.
Don't ever rely on the rifle's (or any other firearms') mechanical safety, but at the same time, NEVER EVER bypass, or put into question, the integrity of the rifle's mechanical saftey.... Just because you shouldn't rely on it, doesn't mean it doesn't need to work!
I don't mean to be inflammatory, but a question like this makes me question if YOU should be messing with the trigger on a firearm...or a bb gun....or even an airsoft. Your comment about simply keeping the rifle on "safe" is completely ignorant. Your rifle will (eventually, and probably sooner than later) fire as you turn the safety off.
Sorry for being inflammatory, but it's got to be said. This is SERIOUS business.
Not that I condone you messing with the trigger any more, but here is a better explanation of how to do this CORRECTLY, so that you can hopefully fix what you've got.
First off, if it's a "traditional" Win70 2-lever trigger, there is a headless screw that threads through an arm on the back of the trigger. That screw has 3 nuts on it. One below the trigger arm, and two above. Above the two nuts, there is a spring. There is a flat-blade screwdriver slot on the bottom side of the headless screw.
With this trigger:
1. sear engagement is not readily adjustable
2. the OEM trigger spring won't allow the trigger to be SAFELY adjustable below ~2.5lbs. Any lower and you're begging for an AD/ND.
3. The position of the screw itself, in relation to the trigger sets the amount of overtravel for the trigger.
4. The nut below the trigger arm cinches the screw in place.
5. The two nuts above the trigger arm are a jam-nut arrangement. The top one sets the trigger spring preload, and the bottom nut cinches against the top nut to hold it place.
<span style="font-weight: bold">6. There MUST, MUST, MUST be spring preload, to 100% guarantee the trigger itself will be in the furthest forward position it is mechanically able to be, when the bolt is being rotated down and locked into battery.</span>
I bet dollars and donuts your trigger is free to flop around a little when the bolt is out.... Am I wrong? That is because you have no preload on your trigger spring...
You can get away with a much lighter trigger pull with a lighter spring, that is PRELOADED!
The first thing you should do is set your overtravel. Set it so that the sear notch in the trigger will absolutely, positively clear the sear, regardless if you push sideways a little on your trigger or not.
The second thing to do is get some aftermarket/replacement springs. I actually have a chrome silicon spring about 10" long that I got from my local hardware store that is perfect. I cut a piece of it off about 3/16" longer than the OEM spring, and I install it. I play with the preload on it, and cut it down 1/2 coil a time until it's "right".
"Right" means the trigger is SPRUNG, and it won't flop around without the bolt in the action. Try it with the action held upside-down too. Hold it sideways, flick the trigger many times and be positive the trigger ALWAYS springs ALL THE WAY FORWARD, and never binds or is floppy.
Now, install the bolt on an EMPTY chamber (triple check it!). Dry fire a few times and get the feel for it. Cock the rifle and then slap the bolt into the locked position, in an attempt to "try" to cause the trigger/sear to lose engagement (this would cause a discharge if the rifle was loaded). Do this rifle pointed up, pointed down, sideways etc etc etc. Now test the safety. Turn it on and flick it off. Over and over again. Rifle pointed up, rifle pointed down, sideways etc etc etc.
Once you have thoroughly tested it, and are satisfied (meaning ZERO malfunctions/failures) apply a thin coat of epoxy or nail polish to the nuts on the trigger screw.
Take it to the range and try it out.
DO NOT PUT THE RIFLE INTO BATTERY UNTIL YOU'RE ON TARGET! This is a rule that should be always be followed, but with an untested fire-control system, it is even more crucial.
Thoroughly test the action by increasing the bolt-closure force, and also turning on/off the safety. Flick the safety hard, all the while, keeping the rifle ON TARGET.
Adjust as necessary.
Don't ever rely on the rifle's (or any other firearms') mechanical safety, but at the same time, NEVER EVER bypass, or put into question, the integrity of the rifle's mechanical saftey.... Just because you shouldn't rely on it, doesn't mean it doesn't need to work!
Re: Winchester model 70 trigger adjustment questio
thank you for your reply sir. i have been around guns my whole life and i figured i would get questioned like this. my hobby is 1911's and i know more about them. i haven't messed much with long rifle's as in gun smithing. its a learning experience for me and im sure you and everyone else started out the same way. asking questions and learning all you can. i really appreciate your help you have explained to me with more clarity then what i have gotten before. i have kept the gun unloaded since i was unsure about my adjustments that's why i came here to learn from the more knowledgeable folks. i am now going to go tighten up my pull and test it again. thank you again sir for your input. i greatly appreciate it.
thank you for your reply sir. i have been around guns my whole life and i figured i would get questioned like this. my hobby is 1911's and i know more about them. i haven't messed much with long rifle's as in gun smithing. its a learning experience for me and im sure you and everyone else started out the same way. asking questions and learning all you can. i really appreciate your help you have explained to me with more clarity then what i have gotten before. i have kept the gun unloaded since i was unsure about my adjustments that's why i came here to learn from the more knowledgeable folks. i am now going to go tighten up my pull and test it again. thank you again sir for your input. i greatly appreciate it.
Re: Winchester model 70 trigger adjustment questio
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: countryguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thank you for your reply sir. i have been around guns my whole life and i figured i would get questioned like this. my hobby is 1911's and i know more about them. i haven't messed much with long rifle's as in gun smithing. its a learning experience for me and im sure you and everyone else started out the same way. asking questions and learning all you can. i really appreciate your help you have explained to me with more clarity then what i have gotten before. i have kept the gun unloaded since i was unsure about my adjustments that's why i came here to learn from the more knowledgeable folks. i am now going to go tighten up my pull and test it again. thank you again sir for your input. i greatly appreciate it. </div></div>
Again, I apologize for being inflammatory, or even condescending. I realize my post came off that way, and it was a split between my desire to point out how serious the business of messing with a trigger is, and also to be meticulously clear of how the Win70 trigger must be set. I meant no disrespect... Thank you for your understanding!
Based on your prior experience with 1911s, I'm sure you'll get your trigger tuned up in no time. I think you'll be happy with the results of a different spring. Obviously, the ID and OD of the new spring must be fairly close to the OEM one. The wire diameter will be smaller for the new spring, and it may have more coils/inch... The key is to get some good preload on that spring so that it is always actively pushing on the trigger, trying to keep it in its forwardmost position.
You can alter the sear engagement by grinding/filing on the trigger itself, but I very much doubt you'll find a need to do this.
Winchester triggers don't really work "loose" over time, but it is still a good idea to use some kind of epoxy or "gouge" to keep things in the place you set.
Good luck.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: countryguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thank you for your reply sir. i have been around guns my whole life and i figured i would get questioned like this. my hobby is 1911's and i know more about them. i haven't messed much with long rifle's as in gun smithing. its a learning experience for me and im sure you and everyone else started out the same way. asking questions and learning all you can. i really appreciate your help you have explained to me with more clarity then what i have gotten before. i have kept the gun unloaded since i was unsure about my adjustments that's why i came here to learn from the more knowledgeable folks. i am now going to go tighten up my pull and test it again. thank you again sir for your input. i greatly appreciate it. </div></div>
Again, I apologize for being inflammatory, or even condescending. I realize my post came off that way, and it was a split between my desire to point out how serious the business of messing with a trigger is, and also to be meticulously clear of how the Win70 trigger must be set. I meant no disrespect... Thank you for your understanding!
Based on your prior experience with 1911s, I'm sure you'll get your trigger tuned up in no time. I think you'll be happy with the results of a different spring. Obviously, the ID and OD of the new spring must be fairly close to the OEM one. The wire diameter will be smaller for the new spring, and it may have more coils/inch... The key is to get some good preload on that spring so that it is always actively pushing on the trigger, trying to keep it in its forwardmost position.
You can alter the sear engagement by grinding/filing on the trigger itself, but I very much doubt you'll find a need to do this.
Winchester triggers don't really work "loose" over time, but it is still a good idea to use some kind of epoxy or "gouge" to keep things in the place you set.
Good luck.
Re: Winchester model 70 trigger adjustment questio
ok i just adjusted the trigger pull again. i forgot to mention earlier that there is no play in my trigger. i checked and adjusted it the first time. now since my adjustment just a few minutes ago the trigger is still light and crisp. its not like it was. im going to go test fire it now. ill report back on how it shoots. thanks again
ok i just adjusted the trigger pull again. i forgot to mention earlier that there is no play in my trigger. i checked and adjusted it the first time. now since my adjustment just a few minutes ago the trigger is still light and crisp. its not like it was. im going to go test fire it now. ill report back on how it shoots. thanks again
Re: Winchester model 70 trigger adjustment questio
Ok I just shot the gun 12 times with different loads i have worked up. This is my coyote load 90 grain Sierra #1800 and some IMR4350. It's a three shot group off a bi-pod 50yds using my .270WSM after the most recent trigger adjustment. It's a .371" group. Also is a picture of one of my 1911's. Thanks again for the help Turbo54 I appriciate it and understand the reaon you came off like you did. There are some folks that have no business messing with firing controls of a gun. Oh sorry about the grainy pictures my camera phone isn't the best.
Ok I just shot the gun 12 times with different loads i have worked up. This is my coyote load 90 grain Sierra #1800 and some IMR4350. It's a three shot group off a bi-pod 50yds using my .270WSM after the most recent trigger adjustment. It's a .371" group. Also is a picture of one of my 1911's. Thanks again for the help Turbo54 I appriciate it and understand the reaon you came off like you did. There are some folks that have no business messing with firing controls of a gun. Oh sorry about the grainy pictures my camera phone isn't the best.
This is an 11 year old thread.Contact Ernie Paull at Ernie the gunsmith.com he has a selection of reduced power trigger springs for the noon MOAwinchester model 70 triggers.
