I recently got an amazing group out of an older post ‘64 Winchester Model 70 22-250 that I’ve had for years (killed a lot of shit with it, never grouped it until now) and I’m in love. How hard is it to rebarrel these? Who works on them? Do they need much work?
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Winchester post ‘64 rifles?
- Thread starter JeffLebowski
- Start date
jakelly- I think your thinking LRI is Long Rifles Inc.? The OP is not them, Chad's SH name is Long Rifles Inc.
Most of the smiths that participate on this forum will also work on Winchester 70s including Long Rifles Inc. and probably Mile High Shooting (LRI has done some work for me on a Win 70, but I haven't asked Mile High). Anyone who can rebarrel a Rem 700 can do a Win. 70, the Win 70 has a square bottom receiver instead of round.
Most of the smiths that participate on this forum will also work on Winchester 70s including Long Rifles Inc. and probably Mile High Shooting (LRI has done some work for me on a Win 70, but I haven't asked Mile High). Anyone who can rebarrel a Rem 700 can do a Win. 70, the Win 70 has a square bottom receiver instead of round.
Please read my signature or keep the comments to something that contributes as opposed to the texting vernacular.
Also, one of the most accurate rifles that I have ever had was a FN-SPR action (which is the pre-'64 winchester 70 action) in a Manners T3 stock that Alan (AJ) Brown built. He doesn't advertise much but does great work which includes a long career building rifles at the Naval Surface Warfare Center in neighboring Crane, Indiana.
Here's an article about him:
http://heelsandhandguns.com/2013/03/meeting-gunsmith-alan-brown-aj-brown-arms/
https://www.facebook.com/AJbrownarms/
Here's an article about him:
http://heelsandhandguns.com/2013/03/meeting-gunsmith-alan-brown-aj-brown-arms/
https://www.facebook.com/AJbrownarms/
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The post-64 Winchester M70 is a push-feed action and rebarreling does not require any specific machining (no cone breech, no extractor slot). If you can rebarrel a Remington M700 a post-64 M70 is no more difficult.
I know Chad’s screen name. But if you’re asking to rebarrel a Winchester model 70 and your screen name is LRI, that’s just rich.
Anyhow let me try to help ( I’ll spell out every word) lest I get another firm talking to...
About 90% of that accuracy you fell in love with is in that barrel you want to yank off. I wouldn’t do it.
The post 1964 Winchester 70 is either push feed or controlled round feed. You can tell the difference from across the room. If there is an extractor running alongside the bolt, it’s controlled round fed; if there’s not, it’s push fed. A push fed post 1964 Winchester 70 is a forged flat-bottomed model 700 with slightly smaller (but still standard) tenon threads. As mentioned by Buffy no practical difference for a gunsmith who’s only rebarreling. Nearly everyone calling themselves a gunsmith can do that. A controlled round feed action requires more machining, and is tougher to get perfect. Fortunately for you the only endorsed service center for the company that produces the most technically sophisticated action utilizing just that type of extractor is a gunsmith in South Dakota that shares your name. But there are others as well.
If you tell me what kind of action you have and the vintage I’ll give you the commonly accepted pros and cons of building off the action, which seems like what you were asking with the last question.
Anyhow let me try to help ( I’ll spell out every word) lest I get another firm talking to...
About 90% of that accuracy you fell in love with is in that barrel you want to yank off. I wouldn’t do it.
The post 1964 Winchester 70 is either push feed or controlled round feed. You can tell the difference from across the room. If there is an extractor running alongside the bolt, it’s controlled round fed; if there’s not, it’s push fed. A push fed post 1964 Winchester 70 is a forged flat-bottomed model 700 with slightly smaller (but still standard) tenon threads. As mentioned by Buffy no practical difference for a gunsmith who’s only rebarreling. Nearly everyone calling themselves a gunsmith can do that. A controlled round feed action requires more machining, and is tougher to get perfect. Fortunately for you the only endorsed service center for the company that produces the most technically sophisticated action utilizing just that type of extractor is a gunsmith in South Dakota that shares your name. But there are others as well.
If you tell me what kind of action you have and the vintage I’ll give you the commonly accepted pros and cons of building off the action, which seems like what you were asking with the last question.
My first rifle was a post 64 M70 in 30-06, a compressed charge of H4831 and 180 SMK would shoot 3/4" groups all day.
The trigger is good and has IMO the best safety out there.
Any smith worth a damn can work on them.
The trigger is good and has IMO the best safety out there.
Any smith worth a damn can work on them.
When I’m at gunshows I will invariably run across at least one guy selling a “pre ‘64 Winchester” and if I’m in a mood to be a dick which is 103.5% of the time I will try to get them to tell me what makes a pre ‘64 worth the ridiculous price they are asking. Of the 10ish pre ‘64 fanboys that I have trolled not a single one has ever mentioned anything about coned breeches, a coned bolt, controlled round feed or a big ass claw extractor. I’m not an expert on the pre ‘64 rifles because I don’t really care, my FN SPR had all of those features and wasn’t a safe queen.
In the interest of being open minded can anyone tell me if the pre ‘64s have any features that I missed?
In the interest of being open minded can anyone tell me if the pre ‘64s have any features that I missed?
Well, for that action the pros and cons are:
Pros
- Simpler to rebarrel than pre '64
- Fully supported case head
- Same great model 70 trigger
- Flat bottom
- Integral lug
- No modification to feed ramp necessary to go to AI mags
- 3 position safety (can lock bolt closed and blocks the firing pin)
- Improved lock time from pre '64
- Some incredibly cheap premium stocks available (Check Gunstox)
Cons
- Forged receiver (vs milled bar stock in the pre '64 and Remington 700)
- Flat bottom (unequal vibration)
- No controlled round feed
- Two piece bolt
- Lock time is still slower than a SA 700, equivalent to a LA 700
- 3 position safety (can go off when switched off lock)
- Bigger holes in the action than a 700
- Less aftermarket support
- Some gunsmiths don't want to true model 70s
- Resale is worse than other actions
For 1/2 MOA PRS type shooting most of these are moot points. I really like the triggers on model 70s, I don't care for the 3 position safety. Essentially a push feed model 70 is a 700 with one +, a few -, and several pushes, all of which are hotly debated by the way.
If I were in your shoes, I would decline to build on that action. Being a very accurate rifle, I would shoot it "as is", or sell/trade it towards a FN SPR action (if you love the model 70) or whatever else blows your hair back.
Pros
- Simpler to rebarrel than pre '64
- Fully supported case head
- Same great model 70 trigger
- Flat bottom
- Integral lug
- No modification to feed ramp necessary to go to AI mags
- 3 position safety (can lock bolt closed and blocks the firing pin)
- Improved lock time from pre '64
- Some incredibly cheap premium stocks available (Check Gunstox)
Cons
- Forged receiver (vs milled bar stock in the pre '64 and Remington 700)
- Flat bottom (unequal vibration)
- No controlled round feed
- Two piece bolt
- Lock time is still slower than a SA 700, equivalent to a LA 700
- 3 position safety (can go off when switched off lock)
- Bigger holes in the action than a 700
- Less aftermarket support
- Some gunsmiths don't want to true model 70s
- Resale is worse than other actions
For 1/2 MOA PRS type shooting most of these are moot points. I really like the triggers on model 70s, I don't care for the 3 position safety. Essentially a push feed model 70 is a 700 with one +, a few -, and several pushes, all of which are hotly debated by the way.
If I were in your shoes, I would decline to build on that action. Being a very accurate rifle, I would shoot it "as is", or sell/trade it towards a FN SPR action (if you love the model 70) or whatever else blows your hair back.
Pre '64s are fully machined from bar stock, have a one piece bolt, were hand fitted, hand checkered, and featured hand lapped barrels. Most of those things don't matter to shooters with our mentality.
The earlier post '64 actions retain most of the positives of the pre-64 actions with the exception of the Mauser style claw extractor. You still get the integral lug, flat bottom receiver, superb winged safety mechanism and a very simple trigger mechanism that can be brought to under three pounds while remaining absolutely safe an a with very clean break. As mentioned, the post '64 does not require a coned breech when rebarreled. The extractor used is similar to the M-16/Sako extractors.
Good data, gents. Thank you.
Here is how it shoots with ten year old bulk UMC ammo. Five shot group. I bet could have tightened up that if I had proned out
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Here is how it shoots with ten year old bulk UMC ammo. Five shot group. I bet could have tightened up that if I had proned out
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Nice groups! Love my wins. Had a pre-64 in 243 but couldn’t bring myself to molest it so I sold it to my coworker instead (he was born in the year it was made).
Built a 257 wby on a post-64 claw extractor control feed.
Built a 223 Rem trainer on a post 64 push feed.
Built a long range 280 Rem setup on a post64 push feed.
Have a factory post64 223 varmint spotter setup for varmint.
Built a medium range 6.5-284 on an old 1944 Mauser claw extractor control round feed. Yup, I have issues, haha.
Funny part is, the factory varmint sporter is just as accurate as any of my custom ones (see pic below). I had it pillar and glass bedded just to be safe, so maybe I cheated a little haha.
Built a 257 wby on a post-64 claw extractor control feed.
Built a 223 Rem trainer on a post 64 push feed.
Built a long range 280 Rem setup on a post64 push feed.
Have a factory post64 223 varmint spotter setup for varmint.
Built a medium range 6.5-284 on an old 1944 Mauser claw extractor control round feed. Yup, I have issues, haha.
Funny part is, the factory varmint sporter is just as accurate as any of my custom ones (see pic below). I had it pillar and glass bedded just to be safe, so maybe I cheated a little haha.
Love my Brand new m70 super grade in 30-06. Shoots great and with the Swarovski ballistic turret is a perfect whitetail/ hog gun out to 500.
Choose the 30-06 Purely out of nostalgia and I have too many short action rounds
Choose the 30-06 Purely out of nostalgia and I have too many short action rounds
Jackalope, that is SWEET! What make is the barrel?
I’ve got an Fn Spr and a newer (2013 or 14’) CRF model 70 extreme weather in 30-06 with the moa trigger. The 30-06 has a very slick action.
I really want to put the spr in a chassis, just wish there were more options.
I’ve got an Fn Spr and a newer (2013 or 14’) CRF model 70 extreme weather in 30-06 with the moa trigger. The 30-06 has a very slick action.
I really want to put the spr in a chassis, just wish there were more options.
Here’s a really good description of the M70 “Classic.” https://westernrifleman.wordpress.com/2009/01/30/the-winchester-model-70-classic/
Mile High Shooting in Erie CO just took my Classic 270 win action and built a match grade rifle around it. Bartlein barrel, Manners stock. It’s a laser! Call them if you want someone extremely skilled to rebarrel it for you or do other upgrades. Their gunsmiths are amazing!
Mile High Shooting in Erie CO just took my Classic 270 win action and built a match grade rifle around it. Bartlein barrel, Manners stock. It’s a laser! Call them if you want someone extremely skilled to rebarrel it for you or do other upgrades. Their gunsmiths are amazing!
Thank you. The barrel is a proof research. McMillan makes a bunch of good m70 stocks, but chassis systems are definitely limited.
