Seems my grouping got alittle worse after I replaced the Tupperware stock with bell and carlson a2 stock. Anyone know what could cause this? I didn't have a torque driver so I just hand torqued it down.
Worse grouping after new stock?
- Thread starter InfScout1/69
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As long as you got it torqued evenly and not over torqued, you should be OK. I do recommend a torque wrench though.
I have read numerous articles about B+C stocks needing to be skim bedded, but I have no personal experience with them except for installing an A2 to my SPS TAC and the bolt would start to bind as the action screws got tightened up. I am sure that a skim bed would have solved that, but I sold the stock and went back to the Hogue.
I really don't think that the Hogue is all that bad of a stock, as long as you don't try to use a bipod.
I have read numerous articles about B+C stocks needing to be skim bedded, but I have no personal experience with them except for installing an A2 to my SPS TAC and the bolt would start to bind as the action screws got tightened up. I am sure that a skim bed would have solved that, but I sold the stock and went back to the Hogue.
I really don't think that the Hogue is all that bad of a stock, as long as you don't try to use a bipod.
Worse grouping after new stock?
I use the bipod all the time and I was getting 1/2-3/4 MOA at 100yards with the houge stock. Now snice I installed this b&c stock it's grown to about 1inch at 100yards. Maybe I just need to get used to the new stock..
I use the bipod all the time and I was getting 1/2-3/4 MOA at 100yards with the houge stock. Now snice I installed this b&c stock it's grown to about 1inch at 100yards. Maybe I just need to get used to the new stock..
Did you check to see that the barrel is free floating? I had to open mine up just a grunt for my sps tac.
+1. Check if there is any barrel contact and then when mounting it make sure the recoil lug is mated on the back side to the bedding block before tightening it down.
The barrel is def free floating. Can fit a heavy construction paper between the barrel and the channel
You can put lipstick in the barrel channel and go shoot, pull it down and look for color on the barrel. Pretty good way to make sure you don't get contact under recoil. (Old timer gun builder shared this one with me. I don't usually think about lipstick or keep it handy)
Just so we are not overlooking the obvious, and in no way to insult your intelligence: you can slide the paper all the way from the front of the stock to the recoil lug?
You don't say anything about this so I will ask: Does the new stock fit you? Did the old one? Cheek position? LOP? Height above the ground? Any chin / jawbone contact with the stock? Is the new stock thicker below the barrel and pushing the rifle higher (bipod adjustment)? Are you using a rear bag? If so, is it placed correctly for the new stock?
I haven't changed anything shooting positions. Cheek rest.. Rear sand bad. Bipod. Lop is alittle different but nothing I didn't adjust myself to. No jaw or chin contact. New stock is def beefier but I don't see how that would effect my grouping? Explain?
If the new stock is thicker under the barrel, the whole rifle will be higher off the ground unless you adjust the bipod. This will change your position.
Is LOP shorter? Personally, I have a terrible time with short rifle stocks, but overlong ones would also be bad. The problem could easily be a mechanical thing, as others have suggested, but I think that stock fit is a very under-appreciated aspect of rifle shooting and wanted to ask you about it.
Is LOP shorter? Personally, I have a terrible time with short rifle stocks, but overlong ones would also be bad. The problem could easily be a mechanical thing, as others have suggested, but I think that stock fit is a very under-appreciated aspect of rifle shooting and wanted to ask you about it.
Here is my take on the problem...
Carlos Hathcock once told me that he would torque his weapon very often because of the weather and humidity in Nam.
He said the resonant frequency needed to match and that the torque could cause that to change daily due to that fact.
A free floated barrel may eliminate the need to check your torque, but you will still need to find the sweet spot to match the speed and weight of the bullet.
Just like the sweet spot of a baseball bat there is also one in the barrel.
A glass bedded barrel will just shorten the wave length of the barrel making it harder to find tune.
It is old school like me...
Carlos Hathcock once told me that he would torque his weapon very often because of the weather and humidity in Nam.
He said the resonant frequency needed to match and that the torque could cause that to change daily due to that fact.
A free floated barrel may eliminate the need to check your torque, but you will still need to find the sweet spot to match the speed and weight of the bullet.
Just like the sweet spot of a baseball bat there is also one in the barrel.
A glass bedded barrel will just shorten the wave length of the barrel making it harder to find tune.
It is old school like me...
Cleaned with hopps #9 bore brush 5 passes, 5 wet patches 4 dry patch. And yes I shot fouling shots
One tendency that I struggle with when it comes to perfecting a load or a rig setup is making great the enemy of good. Many builders and some of the very experienced shooters here on the Hide can take a great shooting rig that they like, change a variable like the stock setup, and come out with just as good if not better results. My rifle-fu is not to that level yet, and I find that for me, when I've got a great shooting gun, I'll stick with that setup until I burn out a barrel or have the time to make that setup work. I honestly see switching out a stock almost like starting from scratch, even though technically a properly bedded/torqued barreled action should theoretically shoot the same in any stock. Practical experience has taught me otherwise, meaning that there's some small variable that I'm missing that's impacting the accuracy. Sometimes it works in my favor, but most times not.
I think you were smart to upgrade your stock, but realize that the harmonics may have changed slightly against your favor, and you may need to tweak your load for the new setup. Think of any change you make to your rifle as introducing a variable into the equation. Every time you introduce a new variable into your equation, you have a chance of improving or reducing your outcomes. If you have the time and money to investigate and solve for these variables, you'll end up with better outcomes in the long run because you can start to have predictability with these variables. Me? I prefer to minimize variables at every step of the process so that I get acceptable outcomes more quickly. I'm not a benchrest shooter, so going from 1/3moa to 1/4moa often isn't worth the time and cost expended. Just my 2 cents.
I think you were smart to upgrade your stock, but realize that the harmonics may have changed slightly against your favor, and you may need to tweak your load for the new setup. Think of any change you make to your rifle as introducing a variable into the equation. Every time you introduce a new variable into your equation, you have a chance of improving or reducing your outcomes. If you have the time and money to investigate and solve for these variables, you'll end up with better outcomes in the long run because you can start to have predictability with these variables. Me? I prefer to minimize variables at every step of the process so that I get acceptable outcomes more quickly. I'm not a benchrest shooter, so going from 1/3moa to 1/4moa often isn't worth the time and cost expended. Just my 2 cents.
Didn't have a chance to read to see if you got it figured out but here are two issues I ran into with my b&c. First make sure your mag box isn't binding. It should move relatively freely between the action and floor plate. And two, mine had action screw holes not lined up. The action was recoiling on the action screws and not the lug. Just made the holes bigger and gun shoots much better now.
Got the torque wrench today and re toques it down to spec... I'll load up some boolits and hit the range on Sunday and see how to does. Once I have it rezeroed well see.
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