Worst Value Optic?

[KevinWood44]

What optic (for you) is just NOT worth the money?

For me it is the Kahles. I am left handed and I really would prefer the parallax on the elevation turret but for $3,500+ I just can not reationalize that purchase.

I am running the Cronus BTR Gen2 4.5-29 I can't see spending more than double the price of that scope for the roughly the same glass (granted the Cronus punches way above it's price) and a few other small features like a rev indicator.

Anyway I am just curious what is the optic you think does not warrant the price tag?!?

 

[BufordTJustice]

Any that break/go down, don't work when I need it...

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Watch me piss everyone off:

Nightforce.

The glass isn't great at any level that I've seen. Sure, you can drive tent stakes with them, but nobody is doing that, so they are just huge, heavy and expensive with mediocre glass.

 

[918v]

Athloon BTR

 

[Hoody2shoes]

S&B
Diminishing returns on investment is real.

 

[Hoody2shoes]

Watch me piss everyone off:

Nightforce.

The glass isn't great at any level that I've seen. Sure, you can drive tent stakes with them, but nobody is doing that, so they are just huge, heavy and expensive with mediocre glass.

That's fair. I've seen a few atacrs survive/hold zero after falling out of a rotary bird that was lifting off so I do value their toughness

 

[Gohring65]

Every Leupold made.
30 to 50% overpriced depending on the model.

 

[moosemeat]

Any scope over your budget.

 

[Milf Dots]

Arken for sure. And Eotech.

The Burris XTR III and Pro are nice glass for the money, as is the Gen2 Athlon Cronus BTR.

 

[KevinWood44]

Any that break/go down, don't work when I need it...

Well sure if something you buy doesn't do what you paid it to do....Id agree it isn't worth the money.

Watch me piss everyone off:

Nightforce.

The glass isn't great at any level that I've seen. Sure, you can drive tent stakes with them, but nobody is doing that, so they are just huge, heavy and expensive with mediocre glass.

Honestly I agree with. I have looked thru 3 different models and not only did I hate...well dislike the reticles but the glass was not worth the money either.

 

[KevinWood44]

Athloon BTR

I don't get it.

I have never heard anyone say Athlon was anything but an amazing optic, esp for the price. What don't u like?

 

[hafejd30]

ZCO and TT

Lenses shatter inside the scope on the ZCO, parallax on the TT 7-35 is crap and they have to go back for warranty without even getting mounted. You can buy 6-8 Burris XTRII’s on sale that do exactly the same thing. Unless you need a tool less turret. Which nobody uses anyways

Just look at the px it’s littered with people selling ZCO’s to get the old 7-35 ATACR with the greatest ever MIL XT reticle

Edit: The only thing comparable in value is spuhr mounts. Where you can consider yourself lucky if your crossbar or ring caps don’t hairline crack at 20 inch lbs of torque

 

[Brym427]

ZCO and TT

Lenses shatter inside the scope on the ZCO, parallax on the TT 7-35 is crap and they have to go back for warranty without even getting mounted. You can buy 6-8 Burris XTRII’s on sale that do exactly the same thing. Unless you need a tool less turret. Which nobody uses anyways

Just look at the px it’s littered with people selling ZCO’s to get the old 7-35 ATACR with the greatest ever MIL XT reticle

View attachment 8183351

Youre not the first person ive heard say this and i believe it

 

[NateSavannah]

US optics. Just look at their resale value... that is if you can get anyone to buy it off you.

 

[Bacarrat]

Vortex. Everyone thinks they are getting a great deal at 20-30% off MSRP. That's what they usually sell for new if you know who to talk to. That new 6-36 Gen 3 can be had for around 2k BNIB.

 

[SRPowah]

When it comes to Nightforce, I think the ATACR line is almost worth it for the reliability. They can still fail, but they seem to survive more moments of pure stupidity than others.

The SHV line though... I would love to see the profit margin on that 4-14x F1 model. Exclusively paying for the name or a premium to have similar reticles on that one. Terrible value when it came out.

 

[Qbanmissilecrissis]

Vortex. Everyone thinks they are getting a great deal at 20-30% off MSRP. That's what they usually sell for new if you know who to talk to. That new 6-36 Gen 3 can be had for around 2k BNIB.

I shop around before I buy anything. Not hard to find a better price from MSRP. Now if you shit money out of your a** then what’s another G.

 

[Ronws]

Stick around long enough and a person can see every brand of scope get dumped on.

So, everyone, and I do mean everyone, craps on Vortex. They have the Razor Gen III 6-36X56 that was just used to make the longest record shot recorded at 4.4 miles. And some people have placed well in PRS competitions with various models, including the Diamondback Tactical 6-24X50. Yeah, supposedly a shit optic there.

People go goo-goo ga-ga over Arken. The set screws on the turrets back out and it happens to others who have a lot of experience with rifles and scopes and the solution is to use vibra tite on the screws. Other scopes do not require that. People talk of using them for hunting but I have not seen people putting them on their PRS or other competition rigs.

However, according to tiborsaurus rex, the Arken has no sun glare as opposed to his Night Force ATACR, which does get glare or wash-out at a close angle to the sun.

But from what I can see, pick an optic that works for you and stick with that. Of course, we cannot afford all the scopes in the world. And believe it or not, videos of the view are not as accurate as you think. The chromatic aberration you might see is not just the coatings on the lens of the scope, it is also an artifact of the camera taking the video.

All scopes look good when you are standing in the store and looking about 30 feet away at another wall.

Problem is, I see some old wive's tales in the stories of scope problems here and there. And humans, well, humans only lie on days that end in the letter 'y'.

But my general rule is that I would not spend more than 1500 on an optic and rings unless it also going to do the dishes and vacuum the carpet. But, then, again, I am not a professional competitor. Plenty of people way smarter than I am can attest to the quality increasing with the price. One bit of wisdom I thought was most important.

When it comes to choosing an optic, decide what your intended use is. Then, choose glass quality over feature set. Maybe one scope holds zero, no shift near the end of turret travel. Great glass but it doesn't have a zero stop. Get that scope and figure out your own redneck way to return to zero. The glass trumps the whiz bang stuff.

 

[vinniedelpino]

Quigley Ford.

 

[Tex68w]

In the past I would say USO, but I don't think they are even relevant anymore. Nothing but love for ZCO from my house, Vortex and Leupold are what you expect and so far I am digging the NF ATCAR line but the rest of their stuff is just meh.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

ZCO and TT

Lenses shatter inside the scope on the ZCO, parallax on the TT 7-35 is crap and they have to go back for warranty without even getting mounted. You can buy 6-8 Burris XTRII’s on sale that do exactly the same thing. Unless you need a tool less turret. Which nobody uses anyways

Just look at the px it’s littered with people selling ZCO’s to get the old 7-35 ATACR with the greatest ever MIL XT reticle

Edit: The only thing comparable in value is spuhr mounts. Where you can consider yourself lucky if your crossbar or ring caps don’t hairline crack at 20 inch lbs of torque

View attachment 8183351

Did they just legalize weed in your state too? Sounds like it.

People are selling old zcos to buy the new tangent or get the new 10 mil turrets. Or Like I did and turned 2 zco into 4 gen 3 razors. Literally no one is selling them to buy an overpriced atacr with shitty glass, shittier reticles, shittier turrets, shittier eyebox and shittier parralax. Mostly older models zco that people want to upgrade to newest features. People selling their TT mpst likely trying to upgrade to a fine or jtac reticle. It's the hotness in the prs world and people will make changes if they think there may be an advantage.

TT and ZCO are the only 2 alpha optics. Period. End of story.

The poor people always find reasons why they don't buy the good shit, and need to tell them it's something other than being a poor.

 

[Jrb572]

Did they just legalize weed in your state too? Sounds like it.

People are selling old zcos to buy the new tangent or get the new 10 mil turrets. Or Like I did and turned 2 zco into 4 gen 3 razors. Literally no one is selling them to buy an overpriced atacr with shitty glass, shittier reticles, shittier turrets, shittier eyebox and shittier parralax. Mostly older models zco that people want to upgrade to newest features.

TT and ZCO are the only 2 alpha optics. Period. End of story.

The poor people always find reasons why they don't buy the good shit, and need to tell them it's something other than being a poor.

Oh Jesus you act like people can’t hit targets with other scopes. I have yet to use a quality scope that would hamper my shooting ability.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Oh Jesus you act like people can’t hit targets with other scopes. I have yet to use a quality scope that would hamper my shooting ability.

Come shoot in heavy ass mirage or in fog where you can't even see the targets with the likes of a Mk5 or lessor scopes. Both situations happened in the last few months where I could see and hit the target while others took a zero on the stage.

You can obviously be successful with cheaper shit but there is performance penalty, especially in bad weather. Gear doesnt seperate the best shooters but it sure can make life much easier, especially when learning and not having to fight your gear at the same time.

 

[918v]

I don't get it.

I have never heard anyone say Athlon was anything but an amazing optic, esp for the price. What don't u like?

I don’t like the glass, the reticle, and the general appearance. I feel that $1500 is better spent in a down payment on a good scope.

 

[Jrb572]

Come shoot in heavy ass mirage or in fog where you can't even see the targets with the likes of a Mk5 or lessor scopes. Both situations happened in the last few months where I could see and hit the target while others took a zero on the stage.

You can obviously be successful with cheaper shit but there is performance penalty, especially in bad weather. Gear doesnt seperate the best shooters but it sure can make life much easier, especially when learning and not having to fight your gear at the same time.

Blah blah blah. Get over yourself and your high price optic. I have shot in Texas heat and managed to hit my intended target.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Stick around long enough and a person can see every brand of scope get dumped on.

So, everyone, and I do mean everyone, craps on Vortex. They have the Razor Gen III 6-36X56 that was just used to make the longest record shot recorded at 4.4 miles. And some people have placed well in PRS competitions with various models, including the Diamondback Tactical 6-24X50. Yeah, supposedly a shit optic there.

People go goo-goo ga-ga over Arken. The set screws on the turrets back out and it happens to others who have a lot of experience with rifles and scopes and the solution is to use vibra tite on the screws. Other scopes do not require that. People talk of using them for hunting but I have not seen people putting them on their PRS or other competition rigs.

However, according to tiborsaurus rex, the Arken has no sun glare as opposed to his Night Force ATACR, which does get glare or wash-out at a close angle to the sun.

But from what I can see, pick an optic that works for you and stick with that. Of course, we cannot afford all the scopes in the world. And believe it or not, videos of the view are not as accurate as you think. The chromatic aberration you might see is not just the coatings on the lens of the scope, it is also an artifact of the camera taking the video.

All scopes look good when you are standing in the store and looking about 30 feet away at another wall.

Problem is, I see some old wive's tales in the stories of scope problems here and there. And humans, well, humans only lie on days that end in the letter 'y'.

But my general rule is that I would not spend more than 1500 on an optic and rings unless it also going to do the dishes and vacuum the carpet. But, then, again, I am not a professional competitor. Plenty of people way smarter than I am can attest to the quality increasing with the price. One bit of wisdom I thought was most important.

When it comes to choosing an optic, decide what your intended use is. Then, choose glass quality over feature set. Maybe one scope holds zero, no shift near the end of turret travel. Great glass but it doesn't have a zero stop. Get that scope and figure out your own redneck way to return to zero. The glass trumps the whiz bang stuff.

Shift near the end of turret travel. I think you named what I had happen. I've been meaning to retest what I think happened.
Thank you for saying it clearly.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Come shoot in heavy ass mirage or in fog where you can't even see the targets with the likes of a Mk5 or lessor scopes. Both situations happened in the last few months where I could see and hit the target while others took a zero on the stage.

You can obviously be successful with cheaper shit but there is performance penalty, especially in bad weather. Gear doesnt seperate the best shooters but it sure can make life much easier, especially when learning and not having to fight your gear at the same time.

I shot a match in probably April with a meopta optika 6 5-30×56 that I paid $600 for used and threw on by backup rifle (an ar10). Last stage of the day we were shooting targets at 1,000, 1,100, and 1,200y. The wind was ripping and the mirage was absolutely terrible. I was watching every impact while people around me (also laying prone on the same platform) and the RO with a $3k set of swaros couldn't see anything. I was surrounded by "alpha" glass, and I had to tell everyone else where the bullets went. This isn't a commercial for meopta, just telling you a true story..

 

[Gohring65]

I shot a match in probably April with a meopta optika 6 5-30×56 that I paid $600 for used and threw on by backup rifle (an ar10). Last stage of the day we were shooting targets at 1,000, 1,100, and 1,200y. The wind was ripping and the mirage was absolutely terrible. I was watching every impact while people around me (also laying prone on the same platform) and the RO with a $3k set of swaros couldn't see anything. I was surrounded by "alpha" glass, and I had to tell everyone else where the bullets went. This isn't a commercial for meopta, just telling you a true story..

Yeah, my meopta 5-30 out glassed every scope I’ve ever owned in its price range and slightly above. same with my 4.5-27x50 meopta. Great glass, just wish they would refine it some by putting rotation indicator on the turrets and switch to locking windage.

 

[Milf Dots]

I shot a match in probably April with a meopta optika 6 5-30×56 that I paid $600 for used and threw on by backup rifle (an ar10). Last stage of the day we were shooting targets at 1,000, 1,100, and 1,200y. The wind was ripping and the mirage was absolutely terrible. I was watching every impact while people around me (also laying prone on the same platform) and the RO with a $3k set of swaros couldn't see anything. I was surrounded by "alpha" glass, and I had to tell everyone else where the bullets went. This isn't a commercial for meopta, just telling you a true story..

So you lucked out and got a good one, congrats. But there are many complaints about Meopta QC/QA. AND, getting service in the U.S. is not easy.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Funny thing how people always have these stories about how good their cheap shit is (mind you meopta does make some GREAT glass, but you need to spend over a grand to get it) but in the field and at matches they never seem to show up. Even my $3K geovids were having issues in mirage at a match last month, not to mention some of the edge CA, so what did I do? Upgraded to 12X Pures. The amount of detail and the way it handles mirage is second to none. Alot of people even with good glass do not have the knowledge or experience to set it up properly. You can make a Swaro or TT look like shit if you don't setup the diopter properly.

Do you need all this stuff to shoot well? No.

Do they make your life much easier and the shooting experience that much better? Absolutely.

Maybe its not worth it to you, but to say there isn't a difference is just plain ignorant.

 

[Jrb572]

Funny thing how people always have these stories about how good their cheap shit is (mind you meopta does make some GREAT glass, but you need to spend over a grand to get it) but in the field and at matches they never seem to show up. Even my $3K geovids were having issues in mirage at a match last month, not to mention some of the edge CA, so what did I do? Upgraded to 12X Pures. The amount of detail and the way it handles mirage is second to none.

Do you need all this stuff to shoot well? No.

Do they make your life much easier and the shooting experience that much better? Absolutely.

Maybe its not worth it to you, but to say there isn't a difference is just plain ignorant.

So all top tier shooters who don’t own or use one are just ignorant? I am not saying that they are not great scopes. But you act like people can’t shoot without one.

 

[Hoody2shoes]

Gentlemen, remember this thread is about optics you perceive to have poor value-not about how $600 optic 'outperforms' a $6000 one...

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Gentlemen, remember this thread is about optics you perceive to have poor value-not about how $600 optic 'outperforms' a $6000 one...

 

[TwistedOneinSeven]

Away back, 2019BC(before Covid), bought a Burris XTR2 5-25x50
Optically it was beyond terrible - CA, dark image, etc.
Friends that looked through it thought the same.
For the money paid it was a huge disappointment.

 

[918v]

Away back, 2019BC(before Covid), bought a Burris XTR2
Optically it was beyond terrible - CA, dark image, etc.
Friends that looked through it thought the same.
For the money paid it was a huge disappointment.

Which one did you get?

 

[KevinWood44]

I shop around before I buy anything. Not hard to find a better price from MSRP. Now if you shit money out of your a** then what’s another G.

I've seen plenty of Gen 3's sell for $2100-$2200

 

[KevinWood44]

I don’t like the glass, the reticle, and the general appearance. I feel that $1500 is better spent in a down payment on a good scope.

Entitled your opinion but I couldnt disagree more. I love the APLR5 reticle, the glass is excellent (every bit on par w the Toric, Maven, Delta, and other $1500-$2000 scopes) and I like the appearance....but we all have different perferences. I really just never heard a bad word about it before.

 

[KevinWood44]

However, according to tiborsaurus rex, the Arken has no sun glare as opposed to his Night Force ATACR, which does get glare or wash-out at a close angle to the sun.

this was his video where I lost respect for him. Arken buys more Youtubbers than Vortex does these days.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

So all top tier shooters who don’t own or use one are just ignorant? I am not saying that they are not great scopes. But you act like people can’t shoot without one.

Top tier shooters who use lessor them are either paid or given free shit to shoot them. You think all the top guys are shooting mk5 becuase it's their favorite scope? Or does leupold throw them a dozen scopes a year, they sort through the shit glass and ones that don't track, and pay for the match fees, travel, contingency money , ect. How do you think these top shooters afford to travel to 10+ matches a year, probally spending 30-50k a year in shooting and travel expenses? Some of you have no idea how the money flows in this game.

Now tell me how many top shooters are sponsored by TT and ZCO. Most had to pay full freight or may have gotten a slight discount. They don't throw free optics, money, travel, contingency,ect becuase they don't need to whore themselves to get people to use their product. Their product sells itself.

A guy who has 30-50k in shooting gear and spends half that amount each year shooting....you think spending and extra 2k is a big deal to them? Look at what the top shooters who ARENT paid or sponsored are shooting. It's not mk5, Burris, arken , bushnell, cronus, kahles ect. They are by and by large shooting S&B, NF, ZCO and TT.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I've seen plenty of Gen 3's sell for $2100-$2200

Well considering they just had 2 sales at 1850 and 1900 recently....people have been flipping them. Price will creep back up the further we get away...just like the $1700 minox zp5s are selling used for 2400.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Watch me piss everyone off:

Nightforce.

The glass isn't great at any level that I've seen. Sure, you can drive tent stakes with them, but nobody is doing that, so they are just huge, heavy and expensive with mediocre glass.

I don't really care to get into an argument but I've owned a NF Benchrest since 1998 and it has never had an issue. Several more have been added to the stable since and the glass works perfect for my eyes.

 

[mrmarklin]

Uh…..I have a Kahles 525 and the parallax is on the elevation turret.

 

[mrmarklin]

Uh…..I have a Kahles 525 and the parallax is on the elevation turret.

 

[Bigrederic]

Top tier shooters who use lessor them are either paid or given free shit to shoot them. You think all the top guys are shooting mk5 becuase it's their favorite scope? Or does leupold throw them a dozen scopes a year, they sort through the shit glass and ones that don't track, and pay for the match fees, travel, contingency money , ect. How do you think these top shooters afford to travel to 10+ matches a year, probally spending 30-50k a year in shooting and travel expenses? Some of you have no idea how the money flows in this game.

Now tell me how many top shooters are sponsored by TT and ZCO. Most had to pay full freight or may have gotten a slight discount. They don't throw free optics, money, travel, contingency,ect becuase they don't need to whore themselves to get people to use their product. Their product sells itself.

A guy who has 30-50k in shooting gear and spends half that amount each year shooting....you think spending and extra 2k is a big deal to them? Look at what the top shooters who ARENT paid or sponsored are shooting. It's not mk5, Burris, arken , bushnell, cronus, kahles ect. They are by and by large shooting S&B, NF, ZCO and TT.

I agree whole heartedly…. I don’t get to compete nearly as much as I wish, but I agree the money flows in this hobby and sport. I myself would not care to estimate how much I have spent or spend annually on it, it would be absurd to many.

I have several PM2s with H59s and think they may be my favorite scope, I got them at what I consider a smoking price new. I also have a TT, 5-27 ZCO and 5-25 ATACR. I never have thought much about their differences as complete deficiencies, more so think about what I like of them.

I have also had several gen2 Razers and a couple of ATACRs and liked them all for different reasons. The Razors were the only ones I wasn’t upset to see go… they were too blue for me, maybe the gen3 will change that for me, only time will tell.

 

[Jrb572]

Top tier shooters who use lessor them are either paid or given free shit to shoot them. You think all the top guys are shooting mk5 becuase it's their favorite scope? Or does leupold throw them a dozen scopes a year, they sort through the shit glass and ones that don't track, and pay for the match fees, travel, contingency money , ect. How do you think these top shooters afford to travel to 10+ matches a year, probally spending 30-50k a year in shooting and travel expenses? Some of you have no idea how the money flows in this game.

Now tell me how many top shooters are sponsored by TT and ZCO. Most had to pay full freight or may have gotten a slight discount. They don't throw free optics, money, travel, contingency,ect becuase they don't need to whore themselves to get people to use their product. Their product sells itself.

A guy who has 30-50k in shooting gear and spends half that amount each year shooting....you think spending and extra 2k is a big deal to them? Look at what the top shooters who ARENT paid or sponsored are shooting. It's not mk5, Burris, arken , bushnell, cronus, kahles ect. They are by and by large shooting S&B, NF, ZCO and TT.

Once again blah blah blah. It’s not the end all be all like you make it out to be. Plenty of people are still kicking ass who do not own one.

 

[Qbanmissilecrissis]

I've seen plenty of Gen 3's sell for $2100-$2200

Of course you did. I paid 2k for mine.

Edit: just ran into my receipt looking for some other email. I paid 3k but msrp is 4K I’ve seen blems sell for 2k

 

[beetroot]

Schmidt & Bender and NF ATACR definitely have to be the most over priced scopes.

S&B pricing doubled a few years back for no apparent reason and unless they out perform ZCO and TT they don't warrant the price tag.

Nightforce has such a loyal fan base they can sell scopes for any price they like. Their pricing varies a lot around the world and only seems to be based on what the fanboys are willing to pay for the NF logo.

Leupold MK5 has to be pretty close to bad value with the upcharge for illumination.

There are a bunch of other copy/paste scopes by the likes of Riton, Maven, Blackhound etc that seem to offer very little value but they belong in a different discussion.

 

[wooferocau]

TT and ZCO are the only 2 alpha optics. Period. End of story.

A "Comedian" in the making here...

 

[Qbanmissilecrissis]

Did they just legalize weed in your state too? Sounds like it.

People are selling old zcos to buy the new tangent or get the new 10 mil turrets. Or Like I did and turned 2 zco into 4 gen 3 razors. Literally no one is selling them to buy an overpriced atacr with shitty glass, shittier reticles, shittier turrets, shittier eyebox and shittier parralax. Mostly older models zco that people want to upgrade to newest features. People selling their TT mpst likely trying to upgrade to a fine or jtac reticle. It's the hotness in the prs world and people will make changes if they think there may be an advantage.

TT and ZCO are the only 2 alpha optics. Period. End of story.

The poor people always find reasons why they don't buy the good shit, and need to tell them it's something other than being a poor.

I hit the mile just fine with my gen 3 and I’m sure someone with an even cheaper scope can do the same.

These are the jerks of the world. Gtf with this poor people shit. I bet you live with your parents rent free.

 

[stanley_white]

/THREAD DRIFT ON

It is more interesting to me who doesn’t choose these so-called “alpha class optics” than who does.

/THREAD DRIFT OFF

-Stan