Worth it to run heavy 223 in 16" barrel?

[AMMOWASTER]

Didn't know which forum would be appropriate. A while back I picked up one of the Ruger American Ranch rifles in 223 with a 16" 1-7" twist barrel. Finally getting the rest of my parts together one of which is a Magpul Hunter stock so I can use AICS mags. Going to start picking up components soon too.

In the longer barrels I know that the heavy 80+ grain bullets usually do real well in the longer barrels but wasn't sure if the shorter barrel could get them going fast enough to make any difference. I know some guys who hunt pigs and the like run the heavies for the terminal performance but this is just going to be a general target varmint mess around gun.

 

[Centuriator]

The Ruger American Ranch Rifle is a cheap, inexpensive rifle. You will be fine using normal 5.56 ammo, buy some Federal Gold Match with SMK bullets, and give it a whirl. I'm not sure what "80gr" bullets you have in mind.

 

[AMMOWASTER]

I was speaking of the 80gr SMK or the similar Nosler. Hornady 88ELD or the Nosler 85 RDF. Basically any of the heavy 223 bullets that High Power shooters single load or bolt rifle guys have been using for years.

 

[spife7980]

I intend to pick up the 85 rdfs soon for my 16” 223 wylde remage, Im only shooting the 75 eld right now because I found them on sale and the rdf didn’t exist then. The 75 with 8208 gets me to 2800 which equals 9.7 mils to hit 1k.

I think the heavies will do just fine in a 16”, obviously not as well as an extra 200 fps would do but that’s life.

 

[BoilerUP]

Do folks shoot 77s out of 16” ARs?

80 SMK or 75/80 ELD will work great from an appropriately twisted 16” bolt gun.

 

[AMMOWASTER]

Do folks shoot 77s out of 16” ARs?

80 SMK or 75/80 ELD will work great from an appropriately twisted 16” bolt gun.

Lot's of people shoot 77's out of 16" barrels and much shorter.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I've got a 75 ELD with 8208 load that happens to go about 2820fps and shoot great in my sons Ruger American Ranch. No development specifically for this rifle but I'm still a ways from the lands and could load longer for more powder capacity or load a longer heavier bullet. Eventually I'll try out some 80/85/88 grain bullets but the extra BC looks like it'll be a wash with my speculated velocity loss.

Also, the AICS mags I've tried take some tinkering to get working with the Magpul stock.

 

[j-huskey]

I kill a bunch of pigs every year on crop damage permit. Sierra match bullets arent the best option on pigs. I have had decent results with BlackHills Mk262 and the Magtech +p equivalent to Mk262. On heavy pigs.. 150-175-200#....
On smaller pigs, zips through, dissatisfying, very... I cant see using an 80smk, and I've shot a bunch of them in HP competition. I am not unfamiliar with them...
I run a 10.5" ar running traps. Pic attached. I have used it when I had guests who used my go to 16" ar. The velocity gain in the 16 often makes all the difference in the world.
You will find the 16 to be the fastest handling compromise in pig shooting whether AR or Ruger.

However, no matter the thoughts shared on the board, experience is the best teacher, and you have to find out yourself.
Best to you.

23 in the last 5 days...

Glock 9mm works pretty good on the smaller pigs in the traps too.

 

[garandman]

My 18" 1:8 twist SPR *really* likes the 73 / 77 gr much better than the 68-70 gr.


I suspect its gonna be more about your barrel twist than your barrle length. Only way to tell is to try.


Also....the longer boolits (80gr, etc) are gonna need a MASSIVE jump to the lands to fit in even an ASC mag, which can take boolits up to 2.312"

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Oh forgot to mention that 80+ grain bullets might not be at home in an 8" twist anyways.

 

[Bwells]

Not sure how heavy your wanting to go. Been running 75 eldm's in mine and really like them.

 

[Rust]

If you roll your own something along the lines of the 65 gr Sierra Gameking, 60 gr Nosler Partition or Hornady GMX might be good choices for hogs as they expand well without usually blowing up. Out to 300 yards shouldn't be a problem. More velocity too which makes up somewhat for the lower BC.

 

[MK20]

For killing stuff, yeah, use the heavies.
PPU makes some cheap stuff that kills well.
Or just shoot em more with cheap ammo if they are pigs.

 

[Chrazy-Chris]

1:7 bolt gun? Absolutely it'd be worth shooting heavies. I don't know why you'd shoot anything but heavy for caliber bullets out of her. I just finished a load for my 1:8 twist 18" AR using 75gr Hornady BTHP and they're going 2640fps. I would expect similar velocities out of a 16" bolt gun. I wouldn't go any heavier than 77SMKs though; play around with the 80s compared to the 77SMK in a ballistics calculator and you'll see that the 80s are past the point of diminishing return in a .223 due to the low velocity, which you're already going to be suffering from due to the shorter barrel.

 

[Centuriator]

More dead pig pics!

 

[AMMOWASTER]

1:7 bolt gun? Absolutely it'd be worth shooting heavies. I don't know why you'd shoot anything but heavy for caliber bullets out of her. I just finished a load for my 1:8 twist 18" AR using 75gr Hornady BTHP and they're going 2640fps. I would expect similar velocities out of a 16" bolt gun. I wouldn't go any heavier than 77SMKs though; play around with the 80s compared to the 77SMK in a ballistics calculator and you'll see that the 80s are past the point of diminishing return in a .223 due to the low velocity, which you're already going to be suffering from due to the shorter barrel.

Are you saying the 80's are past the point in the shorter 16"-18" barrels only? I need to do some more research as to what velocities I can expect from a 16" bolt gun to really run the numbers. I know one thing I will have going for me is that I can run them longer than someone constrained to an AR magazine. I bought the magpul stock for my Ruger American Ranch so I can run the AICS mags.

 

[AMMOWASTER]

I kill a bunch of pigs every year on crop damage permit. Sierra match bullets arent the best option on pigs. I have had decent results with BlackHills Mk262 and the Magtech +p equivalent to Mk262. On heavy pigs.. 150-175-200#....
On smaller pigs, zips through, dissatisfying, very... I cant see using an 80smk, and I've shot a bunch of them in HP competition. I am not unfamiliar with them...
I run a 10.5" ar running traps. Pic attached. I have used it when I had guests who used my go to 16" ar. The velocity gain in the 16 often makes all the difference in the world.
You will find the 16 to be the fastest handling compromise in pig shooting whether AR or Ruger.

However, no matter the thoughts shared on the board, experience is the best teacher, and you have to find out yourself.
Best to you.

View attachment 7085195View attachment 7085196View attachment 7085197
View attachment 7085199

23 in the last 5 days...

Glock 9mm works pretty good on the smaller pigs in the traps too.

Thanks for the reply man I really appreciate it. I like the real world results.

 

[Chrazy-Chris]

80gr out of a 223 are already super heavy compared to the amount of powder behind them, so shooting them out of a 16" is only compounding that problem. I think 75-77gr would be the ticket. And yeah, load them 15thou jump or so and you should be money. Since you're not restricted by an AR mag you can load the secant ogive bullets such as the Hornady 75 A-Max or the Nosler 75 RDF. Lots of possibilities. But if you want to stock up a thousand or more at a time for cheap, I think the Hornady 75gr match would be worth trying.

 

[AMMOWASTER]

80gr out of a 223 are already super heavy compared to the amount of powder behind them, so shooting them out of a 16" is only compounding that problem. I think 75-77gr would be the ticket. And yeah, load them 15thou jump or so and you should be money. Since you're not restricted by an AR mag you can load the secant ogive bullets such as the Hornady 75 A-Max or the Nosler 75 RDF. Lots of possibilities. But if you want to stock up a thousand or more at a time for cheap, I think the Hornady 75gr match would be worth trying.

The main reason I mentioned 80's to begin with is that I remember a bunch of Highpower guys using them for 600 and out. I am a amateur when it comes to this stuff but I am aware that there are a ton of new bullets that will probably all do what I need. The other reason I keep the 80's in mind is that it seems like I see the noslers on sale frequently for quite a bit less than most of the other heavy bullets and I am a cheap bastard. My biggest downfall is that I am totally that guy that starts 100 projects and only finishes a few. Need to work on that.

I will definitely be running plenty of 77gr Noslers as well because I grabbed some a while back on sale.

 

[supercorndogs]

1:7 bolt gun? Absolutely it'd be worth shooting heavies. I don't know why you'd shoot anything but heavy for caliber bullets out of her. I just finished a load for my 1:8 twist 18" AR using 75gr Hornady BTHP and they're going 2640fps. I would expect similar velocities out of a 16" bolt gun. I wouldn't go any heavier than 77SMKs though; play around with the 80s compared to the 77SMK in a ballistics calculator and you'll see that the 80s are past the point of diminishing return in a .223 due to the low velocity, which you're already going to be suffering from due to the shorter barrel.

The 77 and 80 grain bullets are 20 cents a piece plus, while the 50-60g stuff is closer to 13 cents a piece. For 3-400 yards you wont even know the difference for a 30% reduction in price.

 

[Mike Casselton]

If you're truly a cheap bastard and want a decent bullet for under 10c each.

Here's your sale ad. Get the soft points.

I should buy about 5k of them but I'd have to store them on the floor under my bench.

 

[RTH1800]

A couple of things to consider.
Velocity is going to be lower with the 80 grain bullets in the short barrel. You will get little or no expansion. Coyotes and hogs will run after being shot. Often to unrecoverable distances. Some may not die.
Secondly, the heavy bullets will be less safe if you live in a populated area.
It is not clear what you are shooting but anything up to coyote size will be done better with a 55-62 grain bullet.

 

[supercorndogs]

Soft points are for old guys. I need them thar ballistic tips.

I haven't seen a price that good on non-seconds or blems in a few years now.

 

[sinister]

The Hornady 55 FMJs are probably the best compromise for cost and velocity out of a 16-incher at pig-shooting distance. 73s, 75s, and 77s are for match precision, but as mentioned you're going to have to be satisfied with comparable lower velocity than from a 20-inch rifle.

Of the two Hornady 55s I'd go with the 55 soft points for accuracy, only because the bases are more uniform. I've shot lots of both and am working on another 6,000-bullet case of the FMJs (which will fit in a GI 30-cal can for the poster concerned with storage space under the loading bench).

 

[TonyTheTiger]

How did this turn into a pig hunting thread after the OP specifically said he wasn't hunting pigs?

I have 75 ELD's going almost 2900 pretty easily in a 16" bolt, I'm guessing 2800 is possible with 80's which is nothing to sneeze at. Not sure why so many in this thread are against it, bolt gun 223 loads approach 224 Valkyrie speeds and thats all the rage right now.

 

[BoilerUP]

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/sbrd-bolt-actions.213315/#post-3412047

80gr Amax @ 2545fps through a 10” bolt gun...now run the 80gr ELD’s stoopud G7 and see how that perfoems

 

[j-huskey]

In the OP's first post...
"General target varmint mess around gun, question specific to 80 grain Sierra Match king".

Sinister has the most professional opinion of that round since he was AMU unit commander and AMU had the most experience with it of any entity. I personally shot a bunch of AMU 80 grain sierra loads. I also shot a bunch of AMU Black Hills vld 80's, and they kicked the sierras ass in target performance always.
The 80 sierra pushed as fast as you can get it is a loser compared to newer rounds. The bc just isnt there. Rainbow trajectory making it varmint hunt unfriendly if you misjudge the distance by 15 yards. Bullet performance as a varmint round, pencil hole.
Even with a 6 twist to have rotational velocity compensating for velocity loss, the 80 Sierra is a loser for varmint, because it is incapable of terminal varmint performance, based on design alone.
The 80 Sierra as a target round in the wind is a joke compared to newer bullets, most specifically the eld bullets.
I used my pig killing experience as an example based on my experience with the 80 Sierra match bullet on targets and live animals, to compare other target bullets that I have used on pigs and other varmints, not to make it a pig hunting post.
I have 4 223 bolt rifles and have killed a bunch of varmints with them, the 80 Sierra is not a choice I will make for varmints. A 400 yard prairie dog thump with an 80 Sierra is imho, cruel...
The shortest barrel bolt 223 I own is a 20", because I wanted velocity as much as possible with as many load options as possible, rather than just one bullet powder combo.
With that said, i stayed with bolt 20" or greater, because i have a f'ton of 10.5, 14.5, 16, and 18" ar experience with a number of different rounds and a large number of dead animals with them, and the 20" bolt just offered more options.
I am of the opinion that the 16" bolt with a 6, 6.5, or 7 twist will perform as well ballisticly as an 18 or 20" AR, and give the OP most of what he wants, just not with the 80 Sierra.

Now, pictured below is a good tiger that 55 grain bullets handled just fine.

 

[sinister]

Hokey smokes, that's a big cat.

 

[RTH1800]

What J husky wrote is exactly right.