Would you die for America?

[Daddyusmaximus]

Would you die for America?​

This is an interesting question, and the guy in this video, (YouTube guy John Lovell, of the Warrior Poet Society) has an interesting way of looking at it too...

I follow his channel, and subscribe to the network, so when this popped up, I clicked on it to see what gives.

It's not something I was seriously thinking about when I first swore that oath as a snot-nosed little 17 year old. I just wanted to drive tanks. However, once I was in the know, and grew the hell up... that's why I kept re-upping time after time after time. Now that so much has happen to the country over the years (almost none of it good) the difference between the government itself, and the constitution, so many of us swore to defend, is paramount.

Watch this, and give your thoughts on the matter...

 

[HeavyAssault]

Some things go hand-in-hand. You have the physical land/territorial elements of America, then you have the "philosophical" America
( Constitution, Bill of Rights, a Democracy ).

I'd say you can't have one without the other. Now using his "Just Cause" term, sure we could all reach a point that we have to do more than just be quiet. It happens, has happened, will happen again.

When will your buttons be pushed??? Hard to say. Are they trying to take away your "rights" or your physical land???

We have terrorists inside the USA right now. We have horrible gangs inside the USA right now. We have horrible companies inside the USA right now. We have horrible political people inside the USA right now.

Is it that time??

 

[BLEE]

In a New York minute. Every day, I think this might be the day, We The People, will be called to defend Liberty.

 

[pmclaine]

Would you enthusiastically let your kid go in the military today?

 

[pmclaine]

In a New York minute. Every day, I think this might be the day, We The People, will be called to defend Liberty.

You are defending Liberty though....not America.

Maintain our Constitution and call this place Wakanda.....than I will fight.

Granted the "idea" of America is Liberty.

No other country has that codified in their Constitution.

That is what "American Exceptionalism" is about.

Enemies of Liberty want to redefine "American Exceptionalism" as some sort of jingoistic nationalism but no....what makes us exceptional is the idea that the individual is primary and govt serves only to promote the freedom and prosperity of the individual.

Govt does not provide us anything. What we seek is there for our taking. Govt is just a collective construct to protect our ability to pursue our wants. We give to govt in order for govt to provide works to enhance our lives. Govt is supposed to be our slave, we its master.

Currently the parties have forgot this last.

 

[Strykervet]

I had to think about it real hard after losing friends in Iraq. I didn't agree with any of that shit. 9/11 happened while I was in infantry school, the day I graduated in fact, and we were all about hunting bin laden's ass down. When I got the ACTUAL security briefing (that'd never happen today I'm sure) it was glaringly obvious we had no business there. The motherfucker had like twenty T62 tanks and no air force. I saw a video where Saddam was with his top generals looking at goddamn slingshots and spears prepping for the invasion --which in hindsight should've been a clue given we don't historically do well pitting stealth fighters against cave men. I know some of you drank the koolaid anyway. And liked it.

Then we got the patriot act, 15 years in the armpit of the world with nothing to show for it but skyrocketing defense stocks with a backslash that included Obama, Trump and now Biden and ever expanding government powers. Still think it was worth it? Now worth dying for?

The America worth dying for isn't the one on paper anymore IMO.

The Constitution is just an idea, and it'll die too if you let it.

 

[I-R-me]

The old America that was they way it was as I was growing up in the 50's and 60's, IS worth dying for. The new America as per the current scum sitting in the Whitehouse along with many of the politicians currently there, is NOT worth dying for. Taking this country BACK and transforming it into what it used to be is, and what it takes to do that is as well. Will it happen? That "IS" the question for sure.

 

[37L1]

“No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country.” -George S. Patton

 

[pmclaine]

I had to think about it real hard after losing friends in Iraq. I didn't agree with any of that shit. 9/11 happened while I was in infantry school, the day I graduated in fact, and we were all about hunting bin laden's ass down. When I got the ACTUAL security briefing (that'd never happen today I'm sure) it was glaringly obvious we had no business there. The motherfucker had like twenty T62 tanks and no air force. I saw a video where Saddam was with his top generals looking at goddamn slingshots and spears prepping for the invasion --which in hindsight should've been a clue given we don't historically do well pitting stealth fighters against cave men. I know some of you drank the koolaid anyway. And liked it.

Then we got the patriot act, 15 years in the armpit of the world with nothing to show for it but skyrocketing defense stocks with a backslash that included Obama, Trump and now Biden and ever expanding government powers. Still think it was worth it? Now worth dying for?

The America worth dying for isn't the one on paper anymore IMO.

The Constitution is just an idea, and it'll die too if you let it.

The old America that was they way it was as I was growing up in the 50's and 60's, IS worth dying for. The new America as per the current scum sitting in the Whitehouse along with many of the politicians currently there, is NOT worth dying for. Taking this country BACK and transforming it into what it used to be is, and what it takes to do that is as well. Will it happen? That "IS" the question for sure.

The harm has come from decisions being made to operate outside the restrictions of the Constitution.

One of the reasons I argue for a draft is that it makes the common mouth breather invested in the bad decisions of our politicians.

They operate outside the bounds of the Constitution and only 1 percent pays the price. Few care because they volunteered for the results.

Obama hates our Constitution for its primary purpose - limiting the powers of government.

 

[308pirate]

Would you enthusiastically let your kid go in the military today?

No

 

[7.62willdo]

Not today fed.......

 

[308pirate]

I will fight, and if need be die, for the Constitution of the United States as it is written. Not as it is interpreted by the courts.

 

[pmclaine]

Not today fed.......

Good Catch!

 

[Fig]

Absolutely. The #1 threat to our country, by an ocean, is Washington DC. The criminal thieves there looting our wealth, voting themselves largess, and running down our people and hating our country are the largest threat we face as a people and a nation. At this point there is no way they will ever police themselves or clean it up. It will come down to the people taking our country back from the crime syndicate that controls Washington and the media.
I would have very mixed feelings about my kids serving at this point. It's the best thing I ever did, but I no longer trust the government further than I can throw it.

 

[js1977]

Some of us don't fear death, we fear the current direction our country is headed.

 

[BLEE]

You are defending Liberty though....not America.

Maintain our Constitution and call this place Wakanda.....than I will fight.

Granted the "idea" of America is Liberty.

No other country has that codified in their Constitution.

That is what "American Exceptionalism" is about.

Enemies of Liberty want to redefine "American Exceptionalism" as some sort of jingoistic nationalism but no....what makes us exceptional is the idea that the individual is primary and govt serves only to promote the freedom and prosperity of the individual.

Govt does not provide us anything. What we seek is there for our taking. Govt is just a collective construct to protect our ability to pursue our wants. We give to govt in order for govt to provide works to enhance our lives. Govt is supposed to be our slave, we its master.

Currently the parties have forgot this last.

Yes, sir. You are right. I did say Liberty. When I say Liberty (cap L), it is synonymous with America. You have expanded my statement, very nicely.

 

[BoilerUP]

 

[candyx]

Interesting point he makes that you swear an oath to protect the Constitution which is above all other government and leaders. Why hasn't the Military protected our rights when the government has been chipping away at 1st and 2nd amendments. Any politician who has voter for gun control and out right bans which is an infringement of a God given right protected by the Constitution , wouldn't that in itself trigger the Military to pick up said official and bring them to trial ?

 

[BLEE]

Interesting point he makes that you swear an oath to protect the Constitution which is above all other government and leaders. Why hasn't the Military protected our rights when the government has been chipping away at 1st and 2nd amendments. Any politician who has voter for gun control and out right bans which is an infringement of a God given right protected by the Constitution , wouldn't that in itself trigger the Military to pick up said official and bring them to trial ?

I think respect for the Constitution has been eroded to such a degree, the Executives of Federal Law only enforce those laws that benefit and protect their cause. If federal, state and local laws were enforced, as intended in the letter of the law, many would be arrested, tried and convicted. We are currently living under a tyrannical regime, lawless. I've seen it, locally, as well. That being said, it can get much worse than it is now.

 

[The D]

Which America, current age america? Absolutely not

The original America before the constitution? Yes, absolutely

 

[candyx]

The oath is a joke my friend. It means nothing. Politicians take an oath as well.

I understand that politicians take that oath but to them its just words there is no consequences tied to the oath such as death. I believe or I would like to think that Military Members who take the oath do it with honor because they put their life behind their word.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Yes. More importantly, I'd kill for her.

 

[brianf]

It really comes down to definitions and criteria:

invasion of homeland
Invasion of Bahamas/puerto Rico
Invade a aggressive near pear poised to surpass us
Invade a terrorist organization as a preliminary strike (5 dead now rather than 20 dead later)
Invade for critical resources
Invade host country or countries who fund terrorists/enemies

it’s never that simple…

 

[308pirate]

It really comes down to definitions and criteria:

invasion of homeland
Invasion of Bahamas/puerto Rico

There is no need to join the gov.mil for the first one, see Irish Republican Army
Not sure WTF you're talking about in the second one

Invade a aggressive near pear poised to surpass us
Invade a terrorist organization as a preliminary strike (5 dead now rather than 20 dead later)
Invade for critical resources
Invade host country or countries who fund terrorists/enemies

Nope
Nope
Nope
Nope
Warmongering is about as far as you can get from what the United States is supposed to be

 

[308pirate]

The original America before the constitution? Yes, absolutely

So you want to fight for the British Crown?

Here you go:

• https://apply.army.mod.uk/
• https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/careers/
• https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/Careers/Royal-Marines
• https://www.raf.mod.uk/recruitment/

 

[Snuby642]

I took a pay cut to join the military.
Along with many things I gave up to serve.

I took my oath seriously and still do.

The anti military sentiment on this thread sickens me.

 

[candyx]

“No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country.” -George S. Patton

This should be the question asked, not would you die for your Country but would you make somebody else die for his Country. Going in with the thought process of dying for your country is not a position of confidence.

 

[brianf]

There is no need to join the gov.mil for the first one, see Irish Republican Army
Not sure WTF you're talking about in the second one


Nope
Nope
Nope
Nope
Warmongering is about as far as you can get from what the United States is supposed to be

I mean defending a “semi” state with in miles of the US coast.

 

[pmclaine]

I would never allow my family member or myself to be drafted. Never. There is no duty to be in the military as the military always will and always has served the government and never the people. Anything else people are told is propaganda to keep recruitment up. Nothing more. There is no modern foreign war that was fought by our military that had a damn thing to do with protecting Americans and the homeland. I don't consider soldiers as more or less prestigious than any other profession that a man chooses to do for a paycheck.

Now any person who would enlist or re-enlist today I do despise. I see them as sellouts because they chose to serve a corrupt marxist govt that is at war with its citizens. I cant look passed this reality. I think there are worse things out there like federal agents. These guys are pure evil and traitors to the people.

The Founders feared a standing army with good reason and I respect your beliefs.

If not drafted into a standing army than we need some sort of militia service or means to train people up and they have to know that if force is required they are going.

That will put a lot of pressure against pols that may look to be "adventuring" and when war is engaged in there will be a lot of pressure to end it quickly and use the most efficient force to do so.

There is a quip attributed to Washington after he was told the Constitutional Conventioneers proposed limiting the size of the standing army to 5000. He said fine as long as the enemy limited the size of their force to 3000.

My preference would be for something on the lines of the Swiss system but currently the MIC and our politicians desire to make money and power off of war are prohibiting that.

What we lose in abilities of the motivated "professional" soldier I think we gain in taking power from the pols and creating pressure to not go to war.

 

[theLBC]

i would die for the country i grew up in...but i am not so certain i would die for xiden's america.

 

[Snuby642]

To truly grasp military workings you would be better off with first hand experience to form an opinion.

You can rest assured that if anyone in uniform acts like an enemy combatant they will be held in the same regard.

 

[pmclaine]

I see your previous point as well and I may would be all on board if we were a nationalist country of proud people and our government represented this as well. Unfortunately I can’t agree with forced enlistment to serve a marxist regime as things are now.

In order for Govt/Military/Police to not be a threat to the People there has to be unquestionable understanding that they serve the People.

I dont think that exists widespread, especially at the higher, ie politicized, levels.

 

[308pirate]

To truly grasp military workings you would be better off with first hand experience to form an opinion..

I have that first hand experience, and in my first hand experience I have no doubt that a significant portion of the US armed forces will fire on its own people when ordered.

They've done it before several times since 1865, so...........

 

[pmclaine]

To truly grasp military workings you would be better off with first hand experience to form an opinion.

You can rest assured that if anyone in uniform acts like an enemy combatant they will be held in the same regard.

How bout this guy?

these?

and this guy?

 

[308pirate]

I mean defending a “semi” state with in miles of the US coast.

Well, we owe nothing to the Bahamas.

We do owe Puerto Rico its defense since we took it from Spain. If you don't want to defend the island, that's fine. But cut it loose first.

If you own it, and you do now, you own the whole thing.

 

[HeavyAssault]

BTW ...when this shit goes South it better start in a place with a cool name.
God knows I'm not going to be part of the " Fries, VA Uprising " if it kicks off there. No way I'll be part of that historical moment.
I'm not going on a hero tour to take questions from 3rd graders like "Did you eat fries there?" , "Was there a McDonalds there? "...etc etc

Just sayin'......

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Vietnam Veteran

Enough Said

 

[RETE8]

No, send ANTIFA and BLM since they are so froggy....

 

[...]

Would I die defending the Constitution?...yes

Would I die for my Country?....depends on whether they were attacking or defending the Constitution

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

The Declaration of Independence.

 

[Jscb1b]

My country or the government?

 

[Bender]

 

[rtB]

100% chance I'm going to die.

 

[...]

100% chance I'm going to die.

Sounds awefuly defeatists

 

[Jscb1b]

Everybody has to die sometime red.

 

[Snipe260]

Would you enthusiastically let your kid go in the military today?

No fuckin way!

 

[sheepdog697]

John Lovell is the fucking man. I really like him, seems to look at things from a pretty reasonable angle.

 

[candyx]

100% chance I'm going to die.

I reserved a locker next to Ted Williams so I'll be back after death .........

 

[RUTGERS95]

great thread

 

[ForgeValley]

It was easier to answer 'yes' when I had written that blank check and stood in the Fulda Gap against an ideology that I really believed was the antithesis of 'we hold these truths to be self evident...' Back then I thought for the most part 'America', the country and the people, believed that. Probably I was just young and naive.

Now I would say no. I would die for those beliefs, but I don't think those beliefs are held by most in this country now. I don't think most even think about what they have here anymore. I think most believe freedom and liberty are the norm, and not the exception. I think they've been blinded by selfies and Facebook and narcissism.

Right now, I would die for my beliefs, what I think is right. I would die for my family, and the small piece of America I call my home.