PRS Talk Wrong rev shooter cease fire?

[captainmorgan460]

Question for some of the more experienced competition shooters, MD's or RO's. Couple years ago, was watching a shooter on a stage where they ended up being on the wrong rev. It became apparent after a few shots to a couple of us behind the glass. I remember not seeing any splash at all on the berm and the tell tale sound of a bullet going through pine trees. It was a target ~600 yards, probably an 8' berm with pine trees directly behind. Stage was across the rectangle range somewhat and the ending point of the bullet was not clear.

The question is in general should shooters on the wrong rev be told to stop regardless? Which my intuition says probably yes. Being 10 mils off at 600 yards would be something like 18 feet over the target which I don't think most berms are going to safely capture. Then would a MD consider that an ND and DQ? Or 0 on the stage? Or is that more of a judgement call.

Full disclosure, we were all relatively new shooters at the time and ended up not telling the shooter to stop, but let him know he was on the wrong rev after he was finished with the stage. Hindsight I feel that we probably should have as soon as we realized it and let the RO/MD make the call from there.

 

[DaveM]

18 feet over the impact berm is a safety issue. It would be negligent to allow it to continue.

I’d probably allow a new shooter to fix the issue and continue.

 

[morganlamprecht]

ive seen it go both ways...depends on the range/MD

some smaller square ranges if you launch one 18' over a berm, you could be shooting into the next property (which is still a wide open pasture, but different property) and over county/private roads...they will usually stop or DQ you for the stage if they dont see splash the first 1-2 shots...i dont think ive ever seen a full day DQ for it

other ranges are on giant ranches in the wide open and a shot 18' over the target is the same as a shot 6" over the target...just hits a bigger hill on the backside of the target...they correct the shooter and move on

ranges with berms behind every target make it a lot easier to tell if someone is off a rev because u almost always have splash if theyre close...some field type matches set targets in/around vegetation and misses anywhere around it never get seen

 

[Gee Kay]

RO must of been busy it seems

 

[Dthomas3523]

Situationally dependent.

Have seen it handled several ways and I don’t think this is a one size fits all solution.

Though I think a “check your turrets” is in order if it’s not a match or stage dq.

 

[Dthomas3523]

The best way I’ve seen it handled (and it was in a range where it likely wasn’t a threat of leaving the range) was when there was no splash on a berm, then splash at top, then another no splash.

The MD/Range owner was there and politely stopped him and said “we’re gonna stop you for this stage as we want to make sure we account for all the rounds. Looks like you might be a rev off or have some dope issues. Let’s figure it out.”

Shooter got a zero, but it wasn’t made out to be a big deal. No yelling at shooter to stop or anything like that. Just a calm tap on shoulder and an explanation. Worked out very well.

 

[lash]

The best way I’ve seen it handled (and it was in a range where it likely wasn’t a threat of leaving the range) was when there was no splash on a berm, then splash at top, then another no splash.

The MD/Range owner was there and politely stopped him and said “we’re gonna stop you for this stage as we want to make sure we account for all the rounds. Looks like you might be a rev off or have some dope issues. Let’s figure it out.”

Shooter got a zero, but it wasn’t made out to be a big deal. No yelling at shooter to stop or anything like that. Just a calm tap on shoulder and an explanation. Worked out very well.

This is how it would be handled here and should be handled. Make the call for safety. Now, if it happened with the same shooter again in the same day, that shooter might need to have the day off to get his stuff together.

 

[blbennett1288]

Happened to me a couple years back at K&M when I first started shooting. K&M runs their LR stage, 1300 yards, followed by PRS Barricade @ 400 yards. I was an entire rev off on my AMG and didn't notice. 100% my fault.

1st shot - no call, 2nd shot - check dope

I noticed my mistake and stopped shooting, I didn't finish the stage. I acknowledged my mistake and the RO allowed me to continue shooting the match.

I havnt seen a DQ for it, although in certain cases I could see it justified. Almost every time I have seen it happen the RO lets the shooter continue and just says "check dope." If the issue isn't corrected within 1-2 shots they usually call cease fire and give the shooter a zero for the stage.

 

[LawnMM]

I've seen it from forgetting to dial all the way to being a rev off.

I'm of the opinion that the one permissible comment from the squad/observers is "check your dope"

They still dropped points but in the interest of safety let's point out the error before they repeat the mistake another 9 times.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

At a match last year they made it a point during the briefing that if you're spotting and suspect someone is sending one over the berm, let it be known.

 

[earthquake]

While not a good thing to be doing, I've seen it happen too, and most spotters will tell the shooter to check dope after the second no-call. Most ranges have, or should have vast impact areas beyond the berms. A full-rev off (10-mils) on my gun from a 600 yard target assuming a 100-yd zero, the bullet is impacting at 1,325 yards. Some scopes are what, 14 or 15 mils per turn? So that's 15 + 3.3 mils or 18.3 mils and impacting at 1,543 yards. It's something that definitely should be watched for by the RSO.

 

[308pirate]

The question is in general should shooters on the wrong rev be told to stop regardless?

Depends on the range.

At Thunder Valley (Ohio) probably not. Someplace else with different topograpy, different housing density, and dependent on a berm to keep rounds in bounds: yes.

Sending a round outside of the impact zone should be a match DQ just like it's in USPSA and IDPA.

 

[delfuego]

just like it's in USPSA and IDPA.

Brian Enos is that way >
We shoot rifles here.

 

[308pirate]

Brian Enos is that way >
We shoot rifles here.

There's an intelligent conversation going on. You don't belong in it.

 

[308pirate]

Most ranges have, or should have vast impact areas beyond the berms. A full-rev off (10-mils) on my gun from a 600 yard target assuming a 100-yd zero, the bullet is impacting at 1,325 yards. Some scopes are what, 14 or 15 mils per turn? So that's 15 + 3.3 mils or 18.3 mils and impacting at 1,543 yards. It's something that definitely should be watched for by the RSO.

The only 600 yd range in my local area can't tolerate a 500 yd overshoot of the berm. That bullet landed in someone's property.

That place doesn't do PRS....yet. There's an effort to get it going there but you know how fudds are. In any case the current rule is if you can't get on paper (anywhere on the huge 6' x 6' NRA target) in three shots, you are done. I'd bet a similar rule will exist if we ever get to shoot steel there.

 

[Dthomas3523]

The only 600 yd range in my local area can't tolerate a 500 yd overshoot of the berm. That bullet landed in someone's property.

That place doesn't do PRS....yet. There's an effort to get it going there but you know how fudds are. In any case the current rule is if you can't get on paper (anywhere on the huge 6' x 6' NRA target) in three shots, you are done. I'd bet a similar rule will exist if we ever get to shoot steel there.

As much as I hate to say it, I’d push pretty hard not to do centerfire prs at a place like that. Rimfire PRS would be a good option.

PRS on 600 with less than 500 impact zone is asking for trouble or to be shut down.

 

[308pirate]

As much as I hate to say it, I’d push pretty hard not to do centerfire prs at a place like that. Rimfire PRS would be a good option.

PRS on 600 with less than 500 impact zone is asking for trouble or to be shut down.

I wanted to double back on this after checking myself on google maps. Directly, and I mean directly, downrange from the berm/target pits sits a house 662 meters away according to google maps.

Does that change anything in your mind? The range itself is a canyon, bordered by steep hillsides on both sides.

There have been NRA rifle matches there for decades with no trouble reported that I know of. The only PRS experience I have had was at Thunder Valley which is in a very hilly part of the state and with significantly larger real estate and lesser population density.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I wanted to double back on this after checking myself on google maps. Directly, and I mean directly, downrange from the berm/target pits sits a house 662 meters away according to google maps.

Does that change anything in your mind? The range itself is a canyon, bordered by steep hillsides on both sides.

There have been NRA rifle matches there for decades with no trouble reported that I know of. The only PRS experience I have had was at Thunder Valley which is in a very hilly part of the state and with significantly larger real estate and lesser population density.

In a canyon, that would be acceptable.

I’ve seen guys do some weird shit when on the clock. Lots of “no calls” when people rush. Who knows where those round went.

600 yds (or meters or whichever) plus 600 to a house is pretty close. If the canyon can handle someone launching 15ft or so over the target, it’s probably ok.

 

[delfuego]

There's an intelligent conversation going on. You don't belong in it.

With all your vast experience shooting long range rifle matches