WTF Avg. American has $75k in savings...

[SilentStalkr]

WTF. So on the way home I heard on the radio, they were announcing that the feds claimed, in some kind of conference regarding inflation and whatnot, that the average American or American family has $75,000 sitting in savings. I call bullshit on this and would love to know where they are getting their numbers. The avg American likely lives paycheck to paycheck. They were saying this as if this was some justification for pulling some of this economical/financial voodoo that they are doing. You know the same group that talks about transitory inflation. I feel like I do better than a lot of people and work/save my ass off and I don’t even quite have $75k sitting around in an account waiting to do whatever I want. On the other hand, if their statement is true then I’m behind the curve here. I mean seriously, wtf?

 

[Mike Casselton]

WTF. So on the way home I heard on the radio, they were announcing that the feds claimed, in some kind of conference regarding inflation and whatnot, that the average American or American family has $75,000 sitting in savings. I call bullshit on this and would love to know where they are getting their numbers. The avg American likely lives paycheck to paycheck. They were saying this as if this was some justification for pulling some of this economical/financial voodoo that they are doing. You know the same group that talks about transitory inflation. I feel like I do better than a lot of people and work/save my ass off and I don’t even quite have $75k sitting around in an account waiting to do whatever I want. On the other hand, if their statement is true then I’m behind the curve here. I mean seriously, wtf?

They added their income and savings into the mix. It bumped the numbers up nicely

 

[diverdon]

Zuckerbergberg, Musk, and Gates make up for a lot of broke poors.

 

[vinniedelpino]

Yeah… that’s bullshit.

Maybe $75k net worth. But that’s about to drop with the housing market.

 

[elwarpo]

You forget 401k can be considered savings since you can withdraw from it.

 

[SilentStalkr]

You forget 401k can be considered savings since you can withdraw from it.

Yeah, see I don’t consider 401k savings. And from what I heard, it sounded like they meant pure liquid cash sitting around in a literal savings account. And ivory gonna have shoot if we don’t get these fools out of office. I’m literally worth 38% of what I was this time last year.

 

[OldSalty2]

Average versus median corrected thanks to the catch of @buffalowinter .

Read an article about this. They also counted money within individual investment accounts in this as well.

But for real, look into the median and you will see how the ultra rich are skewing the avg.

 

[SilentStalkr]

Average versus mean.

Read an article about this. They also counted money within individual investment accounts in this as well.

But for real, look into the mean and you will see how the ultra rich are skewing the avg.

I thought statistically they were the same? I also think you’d have to be a fucking moron to put the Uber rich into any pool called avg. this is why most Americans hate these people. I’d say you need to separate them out, ofherwise, yeah the Uber rich gonna side the shit out of some results and the little guy getting screwed, again. At some point people can’t be squeezed anymore.

 

[TheGerman]

Get.

The.

Fuck.

Out.

$750 maybe.

What are they calculating this off of; the average amount of equity people have in their overpriced, overinflated McMansions? We'll see how much they actually have in savings here in the next 12-18 months as all of those McMansions they bought lose 50% of their 'value'.

 

[Lightning8]

But 2/3 of all baby formula paid for by some government program

 

[OldSalty2]

I thought statistically they were the same? I also think you’d have to be a fucking moron to put the Uber rich into any pool called avg. this is why most Americans hate these people. I’d say you need to separate them out, ofherwise, yeah the Uber rich gonna side the shit out of some results and the little guy getting screwed, again. At some point people can’t be squeezed anymore.

Average is the sum divided by the number of objects.

4 people
1st has 96 dollars in savings
2nd has 2 dollars in savings
3rd has 1 dollar in savings
4th has 1 dollar in savings.
Avg = 100/4 = 25.

Median is 50 percent is above and 50 percent are below. So in the above example, the median is basically 1 dollar. Which is a better reflection of reality? Both are valid measures, but avg can be very skewed by outliers which is why you want various deviation metrics alongside averages.

Eta - The median savings is said to be around 4-5k, which is, 50% of the US population has less than 4-5k and 50% have more than 4-5k total in savings.

Again, average tells very little w/o knowing the various deviations. Think about it in terms of velocity for your handloads.

 

[cas6969]

That's $70k more than I do.

Two years ago it would have been $74k more.

Yeah, rackin' it up baby. Another 63 years and I can retire.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Does that include a 401K?

The craziest financial decision I ever saw was a 62 year old engineer that I worked with. He had just bought a house on a 30 year note, and already had poor health. I guess the bank will get the house if he passed so they didn't care.

 

[NoDopes]

We're all in good company....

As inflation heats up, 64% of Americans are now living paycheck to paycheck

The number of Americans living paycheck to paycheck is climbing, despite rising wages.

www.cnbc.com

 

[OldSalty2]

Does that include a 401K?

The craziest financial decision I ever saw was a 62 year old engineer that I worked with. He had just bought a house on a 30 year note, and already had poor health. I guess the bank will get the house if he passed so they didn't care.

The article I saw did not include 401k but did include individual investment accounts.

 

[TurboTrout]

if most had to give 8k cash, most couldn’t.

But midterms, so crank the BS meter to 1000%

 

[TurboTrout]

But 2/3 of all baby formula paid for by some government program

Why are babies needing formula?

I don’t think anyone as a baby, no one in my bloodline used that shit, heck I feel bad enough feeding my dog out of a bag/can

 

[OldSalty2]

if most had to give 8k cash, most couldn’t.

But midterms, so crank the BS meter to 1000%

This is exactly the motive. But people aren't going to buy it.

 

[Im2bent]

They must have included the big guys 10 percent.

 

[OldSalty2]

By the way, it gets much much worse when you start looking at the percentiles for savings. Once you get to around the 34th percentile range the savings are basically nil. Meaning, 34% of Americans have NO savings.

 

[db2000]

You forget 401k can be considered savings since you can withdraw from it.

I heard this stat too. I definitely feel they are including retirement savings.

 

[91Eunozs]

But 2/3 of all baby formula paid for by some government program

i.e. by the tax payer

 

[TurboTrout]

They must have included the big guys 10 percent.

Only two people who demand 10% before of your gross.


The church and biden

 

[buffalowinter]

Average is the sum divided by the number of objects.

4 people
1st has 96 dollars in savings
2nd has 2 dollars in savings
3rd has 1 dollar in savings
4th has 1 dollar in savings.
Avg = 100/4 = 25.

Mean is 50 percent is above and 50 percent are below. So in the above example, the mean is basically 1 dollar. Which is a better reflection of reality? Both are valid measures, but avg can be very skewed by outliers which is why you want various deviation metrics alongside averages.

Eta - The mean savings is said to be around 4-5k, which is, 50% of the US population has less than 4-5k and 50% have more than 4-5k total in savings.

Again, average tells very little w/o knowing the various deviations. Think about it in terms of velocity for your handloads.

You're confusing median and mean. Mean and average are the same thing. Median is the point where 50% is above and 50% below

median-
denoting or relating to a value or quantity lying at the midpoint of a frequency distribution of observed values or quantities, such that there is an equal probability of falling above or below it.
"the median duration of this treatment was four months"

mean or average-
Average and mean are used interchangeably. In Statistics, instead of the term “average”, the term “mean” is used. Average can simply be defined as a quantity or a rate which usually fall under the centre of the data.

 

[OldSalty2]

You're confusing median and mean. Mean and average are the same thing. Median is the point where 50% is above and 50% below

median-
denoting or relating to a value or quantity lying at the midpoint of a frequency distribution of observed values or quantities, such that there is an equal probability of falling above or below it.
"the median duration of this treatment was four months"

mean or average-
Average and mean are used interchangeably. In Statistics, instead of the term “average”, the term “mean” is used. Average can simply be defined as a quantity or a rate which usually fall under the centre of the data.

Good catch, sorry, yes..median...been a long fkn day. the rest of the points stand as shown.

 

[E. Bryant]

Here’s exactly how much money is in the average savings account in America (and psst: it's a lot more than you might guess)

Plus how to boost your savings, and where to put it.

www.marketwatch.com

Northwestern Mutual’s 2022 Planning & Progress Study revealed that the average amount of personal savings (not including investments) was $62,086 in 2022 (down from $73,100 in 2021).

And according to data from the 2019 Survey of Consumer Finances by the US Federal Reserve, the most recent year for which they polled participants, Americans have a weighted average savings account balance of $41,600 which includes checking, savings, money market and prepaid debit cards, while the median was only $5,300.

So yeah, there's certainly a sharp difference between mean and median with this statistic.

 

[OldSalty2]

Here’s exactly how much money is in the average savings account in America (and psst: it's a lot more than you might guess)

Plus how to boost your savings, and where to put it.

www.marketwatch.com

Yup and the savings went up 2020 and 2021 due to covid spending, which is now the most significant factor with inflation. Got to bleed that money back out lol...

 

[Waorani]

Measures of central tendency - only on the Hide! You're forgetting mode.

 

[E. Bryant]

Measures of central tendency - only on the Hide! You're forgetting mode.

The mode in this conversation is probably $0.00.

 

[Tchitcherine]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Average American™ has $70,000 in credit card debt.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I don't buy it as I just saw than more than 3/4 of Americans have less than 10k in savings/checking. If savings includes 401k in that assessment above then sure it makes sense but liquid in bank accounts, lol nope

 

[OldSalty2]

The mode in this conversation is probably $0.00.

But yet, here you are. Slumming it?

 

[E. Bryant]

But yet, here you are. Slumming it?

Er, my comment was intended as a slam on America at large, and not any members of this board. I'm working under the assumption that Hide members are basically Lake Wobegon residents from a financial standpoint.

 

[Mwalex]

We're all in good company....

As inflation heats up, 64% of Americans are now living paycheck to paycheck

The number of Americans living paycheck to paycheck is climbing, despite rising wages.

www.cnbc.com

Keep in mind that most of that 64% was already close to check to check.

Americans have always been piss poor savers. Look up the stats on employee participation is sponsored 401K plans. The company match is free money and exceeds the return from any stock index.

 

[hafejd30]

I had a savings….then I joined the hide

 

[SilentStalkr]

Average is the sum divided by the number of objects.

4 people
1st has 96 dollars in savings
2nd has 2 dollars in savings
3rd has 1 dollar in savings
4th has 1 dollar in savings.
Avg = 100/4 = 25.

Median is 50 percent is above and 50 percent are below. So in the above example, the median is basically 1 dollar. Which is a better reflection of reality? Both are valid measures, but avg can be very skewed by outliers which is why you want various deviation metrics alongside averages.

Eta - The median savings is said to be around 4-5k, which is, 50% of the US population has less than 4-5k and 50% have more than 4-5k total in savings.

Again, average tells very little w/o knowing the various deviations. Think about it in terms of velocity for your handloads.

Whoops. My bad, I misread median for mean!

 

[Marinevet1]

Yea, 75K liquid in a savings account is a good thing, but how much do you have stashed away? I did a google search, How much do the average retires have invested, the numbers are crazy .............here is one from the montley fool.........

Average Retirement Savings in 2024: How Do You Compare? | The Motley Fool

What's the average retirement savings? We dug into the statistics to find out the average retirement savings by age, income, and more.

www.fool.com

Mom and I worked a long time, and invested a lot of money, these numbers make me feel real good, despite the current market..........

 

[SilentStalkr]

By the way, it gets much much worse when you start looking at the percentiles for savings. Once you get to around the 34th percentile range the savings are basically nil. Meaning, 34% of Americans have NO savings.

Exactly!

Only two people who demand 10% before of your gross.


The church and biden

The church doesn’t require it. I think Old Testament said 10% but that all went out the window when Jesus came. We are not held to the old law. With that said, it is suggested as a guide but is by no means required. Taxes however, yeah, totally different story. And I’d be jumping for joy if they only took 10% from me. The current rate of everything coming out of my check is like 47%!!! This does include some 401k, local taxes, social security and all that mess. So 10% goes straight to retirement. So it’s really 37% but you get what I’m saying, still too damn much.

the "average" american......

which "average" did they use?

are they taking the mean?.....in which case, would the presence of billionaires like Musk and Bezos not artificially inflate that average?

if you take 9 people who all have $2,500 in savings.....and you have one person who has a $1,000,000......your "average" person in that group will have $102,250

Exactly!

 

[SilentStalkr]

Yea, 75K liquid in a savings account is a good thing, but how much do you have stashed away? I did a google search, How much do the average retires have invested, the numbers are crazy .............here is one from the montley fool.........

Average Retirement Savings in 2024: How Do You Compare? | The Motley Fool

What's the average retirement savings? We dug into the statistics to find out the average retirement savings by age, income, and more.

www.fool.com

Mom and I worked a long time, and invested a lot of money, these numbers make me feel real good, despite the current market..........

Had a pretty good sum in the market till the current regime got in power. Now I’m literally worth 38% of what I was a year ago. All retirement funds are down, drastically. And I got around $72,000 in liquid cash, spread in several different accounts if one must know, but I’m not sure I’d consider me the average saver. I’m super frugal and actually feel bad even when buying stuff I want.

 

[wade2big]

Keep in mind that most of that 64% was already close to check to check.

Americans have always been piss poor savers. Look up the stats on employee participation is sponsored 401K plans. The company match is free money and exceeds the return from any stock index.

Its much easier to save when the gov and its goons don’t have their hands in your pocket and a gun to your head.

I pay more in income tax, social security, medicare, and property tax than I used to gross in my early 20s. That doesn’t include sales tax, phone tax, fuel tax, and every other tax. If I had half that money back I would be set although the politicians wouldn’t have been able to pay off their corporate donors, set up their citizen army with nice pensions for their blind loyalty, and create a permanent welfare class to degrade society evermore.

 

[SilentStalkr]

Its much easier to save when the gov and its goons don’t have their hands in your pocket and a gun to your head.

I pay more in income tax, social security, medicare, and property tax than I used to gross in my early 20s. That doesn’t include sales tax, phone tax, fuel tax, and every other tax. If I had half that money back I would be set although the politicians wouldn’t have been able to pay off their corporate donors, set up their citizen army with nice pensions for their blind loyalty, and create a permanent welfare class to degrade society evermore.

Exactly. We are all taxed to death. I read somewhere the other day that in two income families, generally speaking whoever was making the less of the two was pretty much working, just to pay taxes. Yes, they were saying by the time you added up all their taxes that one of the families entire income went straight to the man in some way. That’s insane but I could see it. You got income tax, city and local taxes, occupational tax in some places, social security, Medicare crap, property tax, sales tax, fuel tax, phone and internet fees and taxes and on and on and on. I could totally see it adding up to someone’s yearly income. Fucking crazy! Yet, apparently the gov wants more, hence the reason they keep pointing out that Americans have $11 trillion in savings in some way.

 

[DocRDS]

seeing as how I RTFA

"Americans have a weighted average savings account balance of $41,600 which includes checking, savings, money market and prepaid debit cards, while the median was only $5,300. "

Income distribution roughly looks like this (all the peeps on the right hand "tail" pull up the average, which is why you see the HUGE difference between mean and median).
Yes this is income (by thousands) and not savings, but they probably follow the same curve. (This data is totally pulled outta my ass and is just to show something other than a "normal" or gaussian distribution.)

How to lie with statistics!

 

[akmike47]

I wish I made 75k total the last 3 years combined

 

[SilentStalkr]

Here are the 97 taxes in the US tax code:

1. Air Transportation Taxes
2. Biodiesel Fuel Taxes
3. Building Permit Taxes
4. Business Registration Fees
5. Capital Gains Taxes
6. Cigarette Taxes
7. Court Fines
8. Disposal Fees
9. Dog License Taxes
10. Drivers License Fees
11. Employer Health Insurance Mandate Tax
12. Employer Medicare Taxes
13. Employer Social Security Taxes
14. Environmental Fees
15. Estate Taxes
16. Excise Taxes On Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans
17. Federal Corporate Taxes
18. Federal Income Taxes
19. Federal Unemployment Taxes
20. Fishing License Taxes
21. Flush Taxes
22. Food And Beverage License Fees
23. Franchise Business Taxes
24. Garbage Taxes
25. Gasoline Taxes
26. Gift Taxes
27. Gun Ownership Permits
28. Hazardous Material Disposal Fees
29. Highway Access Fees
30. Hotel Taxes (these are becoming quite large in some areas)
31. Hunting License Taxes
32. Import Taxes
33. Individual Health Insurance Mandate Taxes
34. Inheritance Taxes
35. Insect Control Hazardous Materials Licenses
36. Inspection Fees
37. Insurance Premium Taxes
38. Interstate User Diesel Fuel Taxes
39. Inventory Taxes
40. IRA Early Withdrawal Taxes
41. IRS Interest Charges
42. IRS Penalties
43. Library Taxes
44. License Plate Fees
45. Liquor Taxes
46. Local Corporate Taxes
47. Local Income Taxes
48. Local School Taxes
49. Local Unemployment Taxes
50. Luxury Taxes
51. Marriage License Taxes
52. Medicare Taxes
53. Medicare Tax Surcharge On High Earning Americans Under Obamacare
54. Obamacare Individual Mandate Excise Tax
55. Obamacare Surtax On Investment Income
56. Parking Meters
57. Passport Fees
58. Professional Licenses And Fees (another form of taxation)
59. Property Taxes
60. Real Estate Taxes
61. Recreational Vehicle Taxes
62. Registration Fees For New Businesses
63. Toll Booth Taxes
64. Sales Taxes
65. Self-Employment Taxes
66. Sewer & Water Taxes
67. School Taxes
68. Septic Permit Taxes
69. Service Charge Taxes
70. Social Security Taxes
71. Special Assessments For Road Repairs Or Construction
72. Sports Stadium Taxes
73. State Corporate Taxes
74. State Income Taxes
75. State Park Entrance Fees
76. State Unemployment Taxes (SUTA)
77. Tanning Taxes
78. Telephone 911 Service Taxes
79. Telephone Federal Excise Taxes
80. Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Taxes
81. Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Taxes
82. Telephone State And Local Taxes
83. Telephone Universal Access Taxes
84. The Alternative Minimum Tax
85. Tire Recycling Fees
86. Tire Taxes
87. Tolls
88. Traffic Fines
89. Use Taxes
90. Utility Taxes
91. Vehicle Registration Taxes
92. Waste Management Taxes
93. Water Rights Fees
94. Watercraft Registration & Licensing Fees
95. Well Permit Fees
96. Workers Compensation Taxes
97. Zoning Permit Fees

 

[Mwalex]

Its much easier to save when the gov and its goons don’t have their hands in your pocket and a gun to your head.

I pay more in income tax, social security, medicare, and property tax than I used to gross in my early 20s. That doesn’t include sales tax, phone tax, fuel tax, and every other tax. If I had half that money back I would be set although the politicians wouldn’t have been able to pay off their corporate donors, set up their citizen army with nice pensions for their blind loyalty, and create a permanent welfare class to degrade society evermore.

Sure but too many people convince themselves that they cannot afford to save money. We do pay a lot in taxes but that is an excuse to not save. A 401K is also a great tax break but most people never consider that.

 

[chevy_man]

All my savings is in steel, aluminum, brass, lead, and even a little plastic.


I'll work till I die. Every old guy I see dead is sitting around without purpose. Give me a pile of money and I'll still need to be badgered out of the house by something.

 

[chevy_man]

Sure but too many people convince themselves that they cannot afford to save money. We do pay a lot in taxes but that is an excuse to not save. A 401K is also a great tax break but most people never consider that.

I had one employer with a great 401k. They matched 50% of your contribution up to 15% of your gross. 7.5% extra gross wage for free.


Next one I didn't bother, just started investing myself. They said they matched 5%. Turns out that was 5% of the first 1% of your contribution, so basically nothing.


But I make more money in the trades than everyone I know with a college degree, and I had about 50k less debt to start my life.

 

[wade2big]

Here are the 97 taxes in the US tax code:

1. Air Transportation Taxes
2. Biodiesel Fuel Taxes
3. Building Permit Taxes
4. Business Registration Fees
5. Capital Gains Taxes
6. Cigarette Taxes
7. Court Fines
8. Disposal Fees
9. Dog License Taxes
10. Drivers License Fees
11. Employer Health Insurance Mandate Tax
12. Employer Medicare Taxes
13. Employer Social Security Taxes
14. Environmental Fees
15. Estate Taxes
16. Excise Taxes On Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans
17. Federal Corporate Taxes
18. Federal Income Taxes
19. Federal Unemployment Taxes
20. Fishing License Taxes
21. Flush Taxes
22. Food And Beverage License Fees
23. Franchise Business Taxes
24. Garbage Taxes
25. Gasoline Taxes
26. Gift Taxes
27. Gun Ownership Permits
28. Hazardous Material Disposal Fees
29. Highway Access Fees
30. Hotel Taxes (these are becoming quite large in some areas)
31. Hunting License Taxes
32. Import Taxes
33. Individual Health Insurance Mandate Taxes
34. Inheritance Taxes
35. Insect Control Hazardous Materials Licenses
36. Inspection Fees
37. Insurance Premium Taxes
38. Interstate User Diesel Fuel Taxes
39. Inventory Taxes
40. IRA Early Withdrawal Taxes
41. IRS Interest Charges
42. IRS Penalties
43. Library Taxes
44. License Plate Fees
45. Liquor Taxes
46. Local Corporate Taxes
47. Local Income Taxes
48. Local School Taxes
49. Local Unemployment Taxes
50. Luxury Taxes
51. Marriage License Taxes
52. Medicare Taxes
53. Medicare Tax Surcharge On High Earning Americans Under Obamacare
54. Obamacare Individual Mandate Excise Tax
55. Obamacare Surtax On Investment Income
56. Parking Meters
57. Passport Fees
58. Professional Licenses And Fees (another form of taxation)
59. Property Taxes
60. Real Estate Taxes
61. Recreational Vehicle Taxes
62. Registration Fees For New Businesses
63. Toll Booth Taxes
64. Sales Taxes
65. Self-Employment Taxes
66. Sewer & Water Taxes
67. School Taxes
68. Septic Permit Taxes
69. Service Charge Taxes
70. Social Security Taxes
71. Special Assessments For Road Repairs Or Construction
72. Sports Stadium Taxes
73. State Corporate Taxes
74. State Income Taxes
75. State Park Entrance Fees
76. State Unemployment Taxes (SUTA)
77. Tanning Taxes
78. Telephone 911 Service Taxes
79. Telephone Federal Excise Taxes
80. Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Taxes
81. Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Taxes
82. Telephone State And Local Taxes
83. Telephone Universal Access Taxes
84. The Alternative Minimum Tax
85. Tire Recycling Fees
86. Tire Taxes
87. Tolls
88. Traffic Fines
89. Use Taxes
90. Utility Taxes
91. Vehicle Registration Taxes
92. Waste Management Taxes
93. Water Rights Fees
94. Watercraft Registration & Licensing Fees
95. Well Permit Fees
96. Workers Compensation Taxes
97. Zoning Permit Fees

Do you notice there is no longer a “tea tax”? Maybe the early Americans were onto something

 

[theLBC]

the market lost $3 trillion recently...
so they are probably giving total invested in the market, divided by number of families...
this would not represent the "avg american"...

 

[Quarter Horse]

Trust your lying eyes not their lying statistics. Many of us have acquaintances from various levels of the financial ladder. Being that is generally the case, you will have some sense of who and how many have what. There will always be outliers. There are those that have great wealth and appear to have little. There are those that appear to have everything but their everything is actually a mound of debt.

$75,000. in savings is utter BS. The only number that counts is your/their balance sheet. That number only counts if it is after all taxes, liquidation costs, fees, penalties, market variations, projected market variations, etc., etc. Right now, I believe I'm going to be worth less tomorrow than I am today and I believe that will continue for a relatively short period of time.

The people that derived the number in the title of this post have no interest in conveying the truth to us. There only intent is to present a world that favors their image. You know it, I know it and they know it.

Trust your gut and trust your dog.