WTF is going on with KAC stuff?

[TheGerman]

So we all know KAC stuff usually fetched a premium/was priced pretty high at baseline as well as had an ebb/flow of availability, especially the newer stuff.

But over the last 6 months, all I've seen is KAC stuff go from normal/high pricing to absolute insanity whereas every other manufacturer who was somewhat close in price has stayed roughly the same.

For example, KAC SR15 lowers are now seen at 1200-1500+ and uppers are 2k-2500+. This is the exact same stuff you could get a lower for what, 600ish and a complete upper for 1k-1200 previously? Meanwhile, manufacturers like LMT are roughly the same price they were a year ago.

Did KAC stop making rifles or something? I'm seeing the retarded prices and initially chalked it up to morons; but the same ridiculous prices are everywhere as well as literally everything being OOS. Anywhere I do see them, its from some secondary seller on a WTS listing.

I love Knight's stuff and even laugh at the current asking prices.

Is my M110K1 worth like 100k now or some shit?

 

[nexusfire]

I know they weren't taking orders for anything other than sr25s last year, not sure if it's still the case. I couldn't even find a reaction rod or a mams last year.

 

[Annex Defense]

It went insane when the news got around that they were ceasing commercial sales—everyone wants (now) what they can’t have in the future.

The QC coming out of LMT as of late is certainly concerning, can’t say I’ve seen the same issues with KAC.

 

[TheGerman]

It went insane when the news got around that they were ceasing commercial sales—everyone wants (now) what they can’t have in the future.

The QC coming out of LMT as of late is certainly concerning, can’t say I’ve seen the same issues with KAC.

Ceasing for a while, or pulling the same faggot shit FLIR did and basically said we're done selling to anyone without a P card?

If that's the case, seems I'd need to make a switch in the near future as I run through carbines and can't rely on a manufacturer that makes proprietary parts and then also ceases sales.

Do you have a reference or link to what they announced? I google'd them and commercial/civilian sales and get nothing.

 

[TheGerman]

i have an AR-stoner upper i will send you free of cost...i assume you have a gun boy who can handle it for you so you dont have to stain your hands with the tools of the poors.

Feel free to send it. Is it at least an SBR? lol

I'm at the point where I literally run everything I can to see what the real differences are as I can tell and am actually curious.

I have a sponsor who wants me to shoot their guns and I've always been a KAC guy. Not being able to get replacement parts from them is making my transition go just that much faster.

 

[_Windrider_]

I thought they came out and said no more commercial sales in the near future

 

[TheGerman]

I thought they came out and said no more commercial sales in the near future

That was mentioned above but does anyone have a link to the actual announcement?

If this is true and all commercial sales end, I'm basically done with them.

 

[vinniedelpino]

So we all know KAC stuff usually fetched a premium/was priced pretty high at baseline as well as had an ebb/flow of availability, especially the newer stuff.

But over the last 6 months, all I've seen is KAC stuff go from normal/high pricing to absolute insanity whereas every other manufacturer who was somewhat close in price has stayed roughly the same.

For example, KAC SR15 lowers are now seen at 1200-1500+ and uppers are 2k-2500+. This is the exact same stuff you could get a lower for what, 600ish and a complete upper for 1k-1200 previously? Meanwhile, manufacturers like LMT are roughly the same price they were a year ago.

Did KAC stop making rifles or something? I'm seeing the retarded prices and initially chalked it up to morons; but the same ridiculous prices are everywhere as well as literally everything being OOS. Anywhere I do see them, its from some secondary seller on a WTS listing.

I love Knight's stuff and even laugh at the current asking prices.

Is my M110K1 worth like 100k now or some shit?

Two threads about rising prices in a week, huh?

Just shoot a BCM like the rest of us poors.

Better yet, sell that M110K1 so you can afford to ship your generator.

Go be poor somewhere else.

 

[TheGerman]

Two threads about rising prices in a week, huh?

Just shoot a BCM like the rest of us poors.

Better yet, sell that M110K1 so you can afford to ship your generator.

Go be poor somewhere else.

Quiet you.

You're going to end up on the cheese of the month club like your coworker.

 

[TacosGigante]

I thought they came out and said no more commercial sales in the near future

“In the near future” meaning a temporary cessation while they clear a backlog or they will be stopping soon forever?

 

[theLBC]

because they are .25 moa!

 

[TheGerman]

because they are .25 moa!

.025 if you do your part!

 

[TheGerman]

“In the near future” meaning a temporary cessation while they clear a backlog or they will be stopping soon forever?

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

I've always wondered what makes Hodge Defense stuff command the same prices as KAC and LMT.

 

[TheOE800]

Your before-times prices are more like used items deep in the Trump slump. Uppers and lowers could be had for below MAP, but your numbers are under cost.

KAC stopped taking firearm orders for the civilian market in late 2020 and still aren’t. Thereafter they suspended taking orders for uppers too. They will again, maybe this year maybe not. Everything hitting the market now is backorders, though prices have gotten better on some things like CQB uppers. However, KAC has already raised prices this year…uppers, complete rifles, and most suppressors “TBD” but everything else is basically 20% higher MSRP.

I've always wondered what makes Hodge Defense stuff command the same prices as KAC and LMT.

Hype and a very MBA attitude towards supply/exclusivity.

 

[TheGerman]

Your before-times prices are more like used items deep in the Trump slump. Uppers and lowers could be had for below MAP, but your numbers are under cost.

KAC stopped taking firearm orders for the civilian market in late 2020 and still aren’t. Thereafter they suspended taking orders for uppers too. They will again, maybe this year maybe not. Everything hitting the market now is backorders, though prices have gotten better on some things like CQB uppers. However, KAC has already raised prices this year…uppers, complete rifles, and most suppressors “TBD” but everything else is basically 20% higher MSRP.



Hype and a very MBA attitude towards supply/exclusivity.

So its a cease in new orders because of backlogs, but once caught up its back to selling stuff?

Basically wanted to know if it was just a shutdown to catch up, or if it was done for good.

Hodge is basically a lifestyle brand that happens to sell firearms.

 

[TheOE800]

So its a cease in new orders because of backlogs, but once caught up its back to selling stuff?

Basically wanted to know if it was just a shutdown to catch up, or if it was done for good.

Temporary, demand-related

 

[theLBC]

.025 if you do your part!

lol, like get really close

 

[TheOE800]

Hodge is basically a lifestyle brand that happens to sell firearms.

Small batch boutique “government contracts” type…just a guy in his basement selling cops guns. Some interesting material choices, but nothing revolutionary like LMT or KAC patents. Fanatical zealots for fans.

 

[craigos]

supply and demand ... watch the 3 Q podcasts with Trey Knight you will see they are making changes, as a result not much current production going to commercial market and the demand went up with covid, garandthumb review etc. No magic here folks .. supply and demand

 

[The King]

supply and demand ... watch the 3 Q podcasts with Trey Knight you will see they are making changes, as a result not much current production going to commercial market and the demand went up with covid, garandthumb review etc. No magic here folks .. supply and demand

I can’t understand paying $3k for any DI AR15 of any kind. Why? Because half of the hard to make stuff (a good piston and gas block) ain’t even there.

It’s a $8 tube stuck in a $15 gas block up there yo.

You would be hard pressed to trade me 2 SuperDuty Geisseles for 1 KAC. Soon to be 3 or 4 SuperDuty guns.

 

[TheOE800]

I can’t understand paying $3k for any DI AR15 of any kind. Why? Because half of the hard to make stuff (a good piston and gas block) ain’t even there.

It’s a $8 tube stuck in a $15 gas block up there yo.

You would be hard pressed to trade me 2 SuperDuty Geisseles for 1 KAC. Soon to be 3 or 4 SuperDuty guns.

Sure, but I’d rather spend $3K on KAC before I spend $3K on Radian.

 

[TheGerman]

I can’t understand paying $3k for any DI AR15 of any kind. Why? Because half of the hard to make stuff (a good piston and gas block) ain’t even there.

It’s a $8 tube stuck in a $15 gas block up there yo.

You would be hard pressed to trade me 2 SuperDuty Geisseles for 1 KAC. Soon to be 3 or 4 SuperDuty guns.

The difference you're buying with basically a KAC, and really ONLY the KAC as far as high end carbines are the proprietary parts that they R&D'd the shit out of that most people don't even know exist. The main one being the actual bolt, which I have never heard of one ever breaking. The other pieces are the cam pin and firing pin and how they were made differently to negate wear.

Worth X amount more than a LMT or whatever? Probably not; especially since you cannot use that bolt in a non KAC chamber and cannot use a MILSPEC bolt in a KAC chamber.

This may be the era of me trying different manufacturer's rifles again. We're also at a point where 98% of the stuff is 95% the same.

 

[Vynz]

The difference you're buying with basically a KAC, and really ONLY the KAC as far as high end carbines are the proprietary parts that they R&D'd the shit out of that most people don't even know exist. The main one being the actual bolt, which I have never heard of one ever breaking. The other pieces are the cam pin and firing pin and how they were made differently to negate wear.

Worth X amount more than a LMT or whatever? Probably not; especially since you cannot use that bolt in a non KAC chamber and cannot use a MILSPEC bolt in a KAC chamber.

This may be the era of me trying different manufacturer's rifles again. We're also at a point where 98% of the stuff is 95% the same.

I’ve thought about this a bit when I was in the market for a DPMS/SR-25 style rifle. I liked how the SR-25 was directly tied to Eugene Stoner, respected that amount of R&D that went into the rifle, and gravitated toward having a specific company who would support the rifle. But I’ve never really seen anyone talk about ”the secret sauce”. If its patentable it would available through the patents for gun-nerds to read, know, and endless argue about on the internet. If it wasn’t patentable but a company ”trade secret” why haven’t competitors or others high end manufacturers playing in the competition niche reverse engineered the features and ripped them off?

 

[TheGerman]

I’ve thought about this a bit when I was in the market for a DPMS/SR-25 style rifle. I liked how the SR-25 was directly tied to Eugene Stoner, respected that amount of R&D that went into the rifle, and gravitated toward having a specific company who would support the rifle. But I’ve never really seen anyone talk about ”the secret sauce”. If its patentable it would available through the patents for gun-nerds to read, know, and endless argue about on the internet. If it wasn’t patentable but a company ”trade secret” why haven’t competitors or others high end manufacturers playing in the competition niche reverse engineered the features and ripped them off?

Large frames are a different animal as they can't even agree as to what parts to use; which makes me think this is in part to them not wanting to 'share' any secret sauce.

However, for carbines, look at my statement about to where 98% of the stuff is 95% the same.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

supply and demand ... watch the 3 Q podcasts with Trey Knight you will see they are making changes, as a result not much current production going to commercial market and the demand went up with covid, garandthumb review etc. No magic here folks .. supply and demand

You are correct... This goes for commodities, food, parts, medical supplies / Rx's, tires, engine oil..... While the asking prices may seem high, the items are available. This is changing. Soon, items will not be available, at any price.

Stock up or don't complain

 

[FatBoy]

The difference you're buying with basically a KAC, and really ONLY the KAC as far as high end carbines are the proprietary parts that they R&D'd the shit out of that most people don't even know exist. The main one being the actual bolt, which I have never heard of one ever breaking. The other pieces are the cam pin and firing pin and how they were made differently to negate wear.

This may be true, but for the $45 a milspec bolt, cam pin and firing pin costs you can change them every year (assuming you barrel goes more than 1 year) and keep a spare in the bag/grip. Just check the HS with a go/no go and stash it. I understand not wanting shit going down when you need it, but some proprietary parts have reached ludicrous status.

This may be the era of me trying different manufacturer's rifles again. We're also at a point where 98% of the stuff is 95% the same.

I only have one AR with 8k+ rounds on it. A CMP rifle I shot for years. Most of the others range from Colt to Anderson parts we put together ( we profile and chamber our own shit) and I can’t tell a dimes worth of difference between them once the upper is faced, they have the Geissele trigger installed and I have a good barrel installed. Admittedly, I am not shooting the volume many do, not even close, but for most of us a middle of the road rifle, or a Frankengun we put together is fine for longer than most of us care to shoot it before we build another or change it up.

The one hang up I’ve had over the last 10 years Is I had a gas block slip at the end of a fucking match at the 500 yard stage so it went to single shot AND shifted zero minutes. That bitch is pinned now, and all of them will be for now on.

I will never advise anyone who has the means to not buy a premium piece, but once you get past something like a BCM there seems to be diminishing returns.


Are your shooting buddies running KAC /LMT or do you you guys have a decent mix of brands? You guys seem to drill pretty hard, anyone having issues with “lesser” guns?

 

[Charger442]

So no more KAC civilian guns? Ok guess I'll just hold onto those Mod 1s I was flirting with selling

 

[TheOE800]

So no more KAC civilian guns? Ok guess I'll just hold onto those Mod 1s I was flirting with selling

Let me repeat: Backorders are being filled. New orders aren’t being taken until the backorders are sufficiently cleared and new product is ready.

Sell those Mod 1s while the iron is hot, they’re inferior to current KAC offerings and collectors go nuts.

 

[TheGerman]

Are your shooting buddies running KAC /LMT or do you you guys have a decent mix of brands? You guys seem to drill pretty hard, anyone having issues with “lesser” guns?

I'm the only KAC gun(s) but I do have other brands I've accumulated over the years, none of which I've had any issues with. So with that said, yeah, almost everything runs near 100% these days. The only problem I've ever had was when my SR15 CQB decided it wanted to go from a H2 to a H3 all of a sudden.

Hell, one of my complete carbines with the 2nd most rounds through it behind the KAC I have 30+kish through is a Stag flat top back from when 'the chart' existed and a Colt 6920 was the end all be all gun. I'm on the 3rd barrel and Stag used to 'warranty' them but at some point just stopped sending me new barrels. I don't think I've ever had a malfunction with that gun, ever.

Rest of the guns from the guys consist of:

Radian
BCM
LMT
Cobalt Kinetics
Colt

Only problem out of any of them was that after 100ish rounds, the BCM BCG had a weird issue where it would put the round into battery and lock, the trigger would work fine, firing pin did its thing yet the first round just wouldn't fire. Trades out firing pins, same issue. BCM sent a new BCG and its been 100% since then. I'm not counting ammo related bullshit like the extractor ripping part of the soft steel rim off of cheap ass steel case.

 

[FatBoy]

I think you’ll eventually be able to get some spare KAC parts but these are never gonna be for us lowly poors again unless the economy crashes and guys are fire selling shit to pay for their McMansions.

Key is going to be us, as a whole, to stop panic buying shit and sitting on it. Spares is a good thing, but do any of us need 3 lifetimes worth at 300% cost because that is what’s happening.

I like that you already have proven platforms with commonality to your team. One rifle goes down hard, say, breaks a lower etc. it just became spares for all the other guns. There would be some comfort in that for me.

 

[Fig]

Typical gun idiot, gots to have it, tulip behavior.

 

[TheOE800]

I think you’ll eventually be able to get some spare KAC parts but these are never gonna be for us lowly poors again unless the economy crashes and guys are fire selling shit to pay for their McMansions.

100%.

 

[Charger442]

Sell those Mod 1s while the iron is hot, they’re inferior to current KAC offerings and collectors go nuts.

thats very interesting on their inferiority. i will keep that in mind going forward. thank you for your honesty.

 

[jMarine]

I just wanna get my hands on a fucking barrel nut wrench. Is that so difficult to ask!

 

[The King]

I'm not gonna say I think there is a better DI AR than the KAC. Although I do sometimes look at a JP as being a contender. I do think if you have an advanced bolt geometry/metallurgy and Ambi controls you are right up there with KAC. They would be in deep shit if Geisele had put Ambi controls on the Super Duty.

I WILL say I don't think the KAC is as good as the new Haenel. Or an HK416. When you toss a can on a gun there is a desirable difference in a piston driven gun IMHO.

 

[Fig]

How is piston better for suppressed?

 

[The King]

How is piston better for suppressed?

I get a lot less fouling and need to lube from my piston guns vs the DI stuff. The piston guns act like a DI without a can fouling wise.

The DI stuff runs every time as long as I lube the hell out of it - but if I’m in a rush it’s not near as easy to do.

With a can fitted a DI gun in my sandy desert environment can be down in as few as 100 rounds without lube. And yeah I mean the fancy boutique ones not the PSA junk piles.

 

[Fig]

I gotcha. Im sure that’s right given the pressure increases. The difference in fouling of piston/DI is simply amplified using a can.
I still feel like my DI guns hold better groups than my piston guns, but they do require more maintenance.

 

[M4guru]

I just wanna get my hands on a fucking barrel nut wrench. Is that so difficult to ask!

Which one? I probably have one you can borrow.

 

[TheOE800]

thats very interesting on their inferiority. i will keep that in mind going forward. thank you for your honesty.

By inferior I don’t mean there’s anything wrong with it, it simply lacks the gas system design of the Mod 2 rifle which I think is a huge draw in addition to the E3 bolt system (that you already enjoy with a Mod 1).

I just wanna get my hands on a fucking barrel nut wrench. Is that so difficult to ask!

Barrel nut wrench for URX 3.1 style nuts? For SR25? Gas block wrench for Mod 2? Or did you mean the elusive action wrench?

 

[jMarine]

Which one? I probably have one you can borrow.

The URX SR25 barrel nut wrench. I’ve been wanting to pick up the 3.1 for my AR but can’t find the wrench anywhere. Not to mention the KAC ones are 400 bucks

 

[TheOE800]

The URX SR25 barrel nut wrench. I’ve been wanting to pick up the 3.1 for my AR but can’t find the wrench anywhere. Not to mention the KAC ones are 400 bucks

Ouch. I figured that’s what you were after since the rest/small frame aren’t too hard to source, but that one I haven’t seen for sale in a good long while.

 

[jMarine]

Ouch. I figured that’s what you were after since the rest/small frame aren’t too hard to source, but that one I haven’t seen for sale in a good long while.

Haha yeah me either. And Charlie’s quit making their $90 version. So my only choice is to find someone who has one and willing to let me borrow it. I’d even send my upper and barrel etc. to someone. It’s just a matter of finding someone with it

 

[TheOE800]

Haha yeah me either. And Charlie’s quit making their $90 version. So my only choice is to find someone who has one and willing to let me borrow it. I’d even send my upper and barrel etc. to someone. It’s just a matter of finding someone with it

Try Presample Depot or NS Armory or D Wilson?

 

[jMarine]

D Wilson is out too. I’ve signed up to be notified when they get more. I’ll check those others out now

 

[TheOE800]

D Wilson is out too. I’ve signed up to be notified when they get more. I’ll check those others out now

The first two are armorers, they will be able to assemble it for you if you’re at that point.

 

[jMarine]

The first two are armorers, they will be able to assemble it for you if you’re at that point.

Yeah that’s the road I’ve come to it seems like. NS armory will do the swap for $170 . Beggars can’t be choosers.

 

[Charger442]

Haha yeah me either. And Charlie’s quit making their $90 version. So my only choice is to find someone who has one and willing to let me borrow it. I’d even send my upper and barrel etc. to someone. It’s just a matter of finding someone with it

I've got to look if I still have one. But I'm pretty sure I do

 

[The King]

View attachment 7847362

Lol - I'm looking at one for a buddy right now. The buffer tube is crooked, the track in the rear takedown pin that the detent rides in is also crooked....and something is wrong with either the charging handle itself or the upper because even racking it a dozen times has worn half the anodize off one side of the charging handle already.