Wtf is this lone survivor or lone runner stuff about?

[Eostech]

S

What is the true story, or where can I find it?

You sort of have to piece it together yourself.

Start with looking into the Marines that were there and and what they planned before the SEAL got involved, then you can look into the footage that the "Taliban" (not really taliban but who gives a fuck) shot themselves.

Then look at what the Marines did in Operation Whalers.
You can also read an account of the Afghani guy that saved Luttrel but I'm not sure how truthful it is and haven't read it personally.

 

[cas6969]

Every Hollywood Seal is full of shit
Lutrell, Kyle, O’Neil …

Don't you dare tell me Col. O'Neil didn't really travel through the StarGate.

 

[LuckyLuke80]

Piet Malan at Impact Shooting did a good dissection of this video.



Here is a follow-up video to show that he knows his stuff and outclasses them.

Yeah. Pieter would shoot circles around that fraud

 

[Rookie]

What's the real scoop on York?

I have read a ton of books about MOH winners. Love that genre of books. It's a hard thing to swallow finding out its mostly BS. Seen Lone Survivor and American Sniper about a thousand times. I guess I bought into it all. Tell me the John Chapman story is real, right?

 

[LuckyLuke80]

I read this book. I believed it. My whole existence is flawed now…..

You ain’t the only one. I have his book on audible. Great listen. Loved it. Then I found out it was a work of fiction. So now I listen to it as such.

 

[Eostech]

Tell me the John Chapman story is real, right?

Well with how hard the navy fought to stop him getting the MOH, yes the story is probably correct.

 

[LuckyLuke80]

What's the real scoop on York?

I have read a ton of books about MOH winners. Love that genre of books. It's a hard thing to swallow finding out its mostly BS. Seen Lone Survivor and American Sniper about a thousand times. I guess I bought into it all. Tell me the John Chapman story is real, right?

Alvin York was scared to join. Tried hiding behind religion and supposedly the Bible convinced him he should fight for his country. Alleged it he single handedly captured like 50 some Germans or some such nonsense. Apparently he did capture a bunch but not single handed and he got the medal for it. Then he traveled the country bragging about his medal and denying that anyone else helped him. The families of the other men tried to get some credit for their own people, and the army wanted nothing to do with that cause it’s not as cool as one redneck capturing a bunch of krauts all by himself.

 

[mosin46]

any material written anywhere on this York deal. the story was hard to believe. but,by the time we got into it most of the best class German troops and officers were dead and more likely to be discouraged,ready to give up and not wanting to die for a lost cause. my take on it anyway. maybe couldn't have been done in 1916?

 

[Terry Cross]

Chuck Mawhinney.

Did a lot of bad ass stuff.
Didn't say shit about anything to anybody.

Decades after his Vietnam service, other dudes found his name in the records and hunted him down.
He didn't want anything to do with them dragging him into public view.
They persisted and pretty much forced him into somewhat of a spotlight that he did not seek.

He quietly assisted with training around a few places and allowed them to use his name for some service member fundraisers.

He passed away last year still trying to be quiet and enjoy his home in Oregon.

He and others like him are the ones to look up to.

ETA: My hat is off to every cook, janitor, clerk, truck driver, etc. that served. It takes a hundred of them doing their thing to get each tier one dude ready and to the fight.

While they may not be getting shot at, I still appreciate them. Team effort.

 

[LuckyLuke80]

any material written anywhere on this York deal. the story was hard to believe. but,by the time we got into it most of the best class German troops and officers were dead and more likely to be discouraged,ready to give up and not wanting to die for a lost cause. my take on it anyway. maybe couldn't have been done in 1916?

There is a podcast that talks about a lot of the stolen valor stuff. Can’t remember off top of my head what it’s called. As someone else just said-I respect all the warm bodies that make the machine work. Definitely more good ones than bad ones imo. I’m glad there’s still people willing to stand in the way of evil for people’s freedom.

 

[LuckyLuke80]

What's the real scoop on York?

I have read a ton of books about MOH winners. Love that genre of books. It's a hard thing to swallow finding out its mostly BS. Seen Lone Survivor and American Sniper about a thousand times. I guess I bought into it all. Tell me the John Chapman story is real, right?

I don’t think it’s “mostly bs”. I think a few of them are, but the thing about the medal is the amount of vetting that has to happen. So I think the that weeds them out. Josh Chapman was watched by drone that night. He fought like a savage and I have nothing but respect for him. Took courage and tenacity to kill that many in spite of being mortally wounded.

 

[jpjulian]

Not a single cook, clerk, or truck driver to be found.

Hey! My Dad was cook in the Marine Corps, IIMEF 1950-54 Camp Lejeune, NC. He was in a machine gun platoon. And his photo was used on a recruiting poster when he was promoted to Corporal. Not everyone is a blowhard at the Legion hall........

 

[waveslayer]

I had a buddy who was high up on the command. Basically he spilled the beans on all the crap Jocko did, Kyle, Marcus, and Rob. He wasn't too stoked on them, the stories of really happen was mind blowing at a time when they all were national heros. Sad overall but good to see it's all coming out

 

[chevy_man]

I hate to say it, but whenever there is a war the propaganda machine is in full swing. Sometimes they find willing narcissists to go along, and in other cases...the hero character is completely made up.

An example that always stuck out in my mind is a story of a guy shooting a dude off a bicycle at 2,500 yards, and then shooting the dude again...the shots being made with an M2 and 8x optic. Having probably put somewhere between 15 - 25K rounds through an M2 with a 7x day optic myself ...there ain't no fucking way man. That is a 3 MOA (at best) weapon system, and the cone of fire will expand significantly as distance increases. I've hit tank hulls with decent frequency past the maximum effective range of that platform while farting around on a range...but it damn sure wasn't cold bore and was definitely part of a burst of fire.

^^ I remember reading that story in a book when I was a kid, thinking "wow, what a badass." And then by about my 10th year and 10,000th round thinking "So that was a f---ing lie."

There are still quite a few heroes out there, and I'll not cast very damn many stones - being that I haven't personally deployed with some of the dudes in question. However, there are things that come to mind that are just too outlandish for the possibility of truth.

Dudes with nicknames have a significantly increased rate of possessing stories that stray further from the truth IME.

I'll wait for some fanboys to start flaming me now.

You're getting the shots mixed up. The 2500 yard shot was a soldier that sat down on a rock that he was using to sight in on every day. Like a deer walking in front of the steel at your range.
Even then he said it was pure luck he got him, as it was going to miss until the dude stood up while the bullet was in flight.

The bicycle was quite a bit closer. If I'm remembering correctly it was 800 yards.

Also done by a guy that won a lot of matches, after he was disabled. He proved he could shoot.


There's a ton of liars out there though. Sometimes encouraged by command to make something look good.

 

[st1650]

John Chapman was watched by drone that night. He fought like a savage and I have nothing but respect for him. Took courage and tenacity to kill that many in spite of being mortally wounded.

Chapman is absolutely the real deal which is why there’s no Hollywood movies bout him and the “normies” have never heard of him.

 

[Bolt_Overide]

I do not know him but from my experience my wife plays me up a lot more than I do. Other than having a Ranger Crest License plate my wife put on my car I do not talk about it much. Partly it’s because my role as a Dad is a little more important than what I during my deployments and the commands I have had.

My wife does the same, she's always buying me tshirts I wouldn't ever get myself, my general preference is plain shirts or maybe something norse, sometimes a concert tshirt, but NEVER any military related stuff. I end up wearin them because it makes her happy tho.

 

[st1650]

Tell me the John Chapman story is real, right?

Chapman is absolutely legit. The drone footage is out there.

 

[Bullfrog08]

Snipershide post Trump win:

Val Kilmer: Great guy who pretended to be a MAN in movies. Never served, never trained to kill enemies, never actually shot a man trying to kill him or his buddies. Rest in peace hero!

Chris Kyle: Pretended to be a GREAT MAN by embelishing stories, but at least actually had the skill set and training, and was more manly than 99% of the men here. Fuck that POS poser! What a liar! Just a recruiting man for the Navy!

 

[Darryle]

My uncle was in Korea, we were close, he had 2 girls, they never had an interest in fishing or hunting.

When he started to get sick, I tried to convince him to tell me what led to his commendations and medals, a legacy for his grandchildren, he said plainly, it's not something they need to read or know. We never talked about it again.

After he came home, he spent his life as an iron worker, showed absolutely no fear of anything or anyone. I do know he was deeply troubled by what he had done and seen and by my grandfather's account, not the same man he dropped off at the depot when he came home.

I had a coworker, now retired, same deal, never discussed anything related to his tours in Iraq, other than the shenanigans he and his unit pulled on other units inside the wire, nothing outside the gate.

 

[EddieNFL]

At least she was really captured.

 

[jbell]

Chuck Mawhinney.

Did a lot of bad ass stuff.
Didn't say shit about anything to anybody.

Decades after his Vietnam service, other dudes found his name in the records and hunted him down.
He didn't want anything to do with them dragging him into public view.
They persisted and pretty much forced him into somewhat of a spotlight that he did not seek.

He quietly assisted with training around a few places and allowed them to use his name for some service member fundraisers.

He passed away last year still trying to be quiet and enjoy his home in Oregon.

He and others like him are the ones to look up to.

ETA: My hat is off to every cook, janitor, clerk, truck driver, etc. that served. It takes a hundred of them doing their thing to get each tier one dude ready and to the fight.

While they may not be getting shot at, I still appreciate them. Team effort.

Well said…

 

[oneshot86]

My uncle was in Korea, we were close, he had 2 girls, they never had an interest in fishing or hunting.

When he started to get sick, I tried to convince him to tell me what led to his commendations and medals, a legacy for his grandchildren, he said plainly, it's not something they need to read or know. We never talked about it again.

After he came home, he spent his life as an iron worker, showed absolutely no fear of anything or anyone. I do know he was deeply troubled by what he had done and seen and by my grandfather's account, not the same man he dropped off at the depot when he came home.

I had a coworker, now retired, same deal, never discussed anything related to his tours in Iraq, other than the shenanigans he and his unit pulled on other units inside the wire, nothing outside the gate.

Sound like great men.

 

[jbell]

You're getting the shots mixed up. The 2500 yard shot was a soldier that sat down on a rock that he was using to sight in on every day. Like a deer walking in front of the steel at your range.
Even then he said it was pure luck he got him, as it was going to miss until the dude stood up while the bullet was in flight.

The bicycle was quite a bit closer. If I'm remembering correctly it was 800 yards.

Also done by a guy that won a lot of matches, after he was disabled. He proved he could shoot.


There's a ton of liars out there though. Sometimes encouraged by command to make something look good.

I had the honor of meeting Carlos 2 years before he passed away, he seemed to be a very humble man. As far as a shooter he was the real deal, not just anyone can win Wimbledon. I am not here defending the man, but he does have some credibility as a shooter. He also was a part in making the Corps Sniper program what it was for so many years.

There was an interview that I think John Plaster did with Carlos before he passed away and they discussed some of the “famous” events Carlos had during Vietnam. I can’t remember for sure which shot it was but I do remember Carlos stating he took a long shot at an NVA squatting down but would have shot over top of the man, but the man stood up into the round. Carlos said it was pure luck. I just can’t remember the details now. But who really knows…

 

[Seed tick]

I have evidently drank a lot of cool aid

 

[jbell]

I think one of the major problems with all this “stolen valor” stuff or whatever you call it is on us as a society. We need to focus more on ourselves and our own accomplishments, both past and future vs others. It is good to have people to look up to / mentors, etc but we should not put them on a pedestal. The Roger Bannister effect is real and is a very good thing. However so is the BS social media fake life crap. It is up to us to find the balance.

I do agree that we as a society should keep these people who claim things that are fake in check & even call them on their BS especially when it hurts or takes away from others. But if there is not a platform (if no one listened to them or cares) for these people they will be less likely to come up with these lies.

 

[CaptArab]

Anytime something pulls super heavy at the heart strings and makes you feel like somebody else is just this elite tier human doing the real thing compared to the lazy sack of shit rest of us, that should trigger us to know we're being manipulated.

Most if not all the Christian missionaries are / do the same things. And I say that as a Christian with missionary family members. Most are deluded narcissist.

War heros, same deal. What are they selling you?

Also it's hilarious to me Jocko, a career gov employee can sell anyone on leadership skills. If you're a career gov employee manager sucking the teat and eating shit is your only skill set.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Snipershide post Trump win:

Val Kilmer: Great guy who pretended to be a MAN in movies. Never served, never trained to kill enemies, never actually shot a man trying to kill him or his buddies. Rest in peace hero!

Chris Kyle: Pretended to be a GREAT MAN by embelishing stories, but at least actually had the skill set and training, and was more manly than 99% of the men here. Fuck that POS poser! What a liar! Just a recruiting man for the Navy!

Never heard anyone say a bad thing about Val. In fact people loved to work with him and be around him. He brought joy to a ton of people via his craft.

Chris was a piece of shit. He dishonored himself and the country with his lies. It's sad he was killed, and it's a tragedy his family was left broken.

Just because they chose different paths in life, doesn't make one inherently better than the other. I can almost certainly say Val Killmer killed way less innocent people than Chris Kyle.

It's easy to try and play the superiority card because someone joined the military or was in a elite unit that was hard to do, they are better. As a combat vet I think it's a horse shit take. The military is no different than the rest of society. You have good and bad people and no amount of screening will change that. Some of the greatest and worst people I have ever met, I met while serving with them.

100 years from now who will have touched more lives and brought more happiness and cheer to people's lives?

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Not a single cook, clerk, or truck driver to be found.

The irony is during OIF, truck driver/logistics gun trucks was the single most dangerous job there was. The casualty rates were insane.

Had both SAS and ODA cats tell the boys they were fucking nuts to roll without armor. Not like we had a choice.

Read up about the battle of the Bismarck. Some of the story is bullshit ( the mp unit with hester hid in their trucks their tales of valor are bullshit) but the write up by the army history command is well detailed.

 

[Devildog]

Lies like these make me sad.

The book of my service would be short.

Chapter 1 "boot camp"
Chapter 2 "hump"
Chapter 3 "firewatch"

The end

A couple possible chapters for any follow up books

Chapter 4 “Policing up Cigarette butts”
Chapter 5 “Field day”
Chapter 6 “Hurry up and Fucking Wait”

 

[Darryle]

Holy shit guys I had no idea.

Yall better not tell me that vise grip garage is fake to

Is that a documentary about Pep Boys?

 

[greg1147]

Ummm there are no majors in the Navy…..if you haven’t been in combat or the military you should just be quiet

Just Petty Officers and Chiefs and a few CWO's

 

[kalashnikev]

Ummm there are no majors in the Navy…..if you haven’t been in combat or the military you should just be quiet

Water-Major... perhaps promotable to Colonel-of-the-Sea, Junior Grade?

I don't really care.

In fact- if you want to offer them some mitigation, Lutrell was a member of "SDV-1" i.e Swimmer Delivery Vehicle 1. He was supposed to be off doing underwater things, and literally had no business in Afghanistan, especially not doing that mission.

If I led that element of Operation Redwings, the book would be called "LOL- we got compromised, so we went back to the COP and played X-box" not, "LONE SURVIVOR: A tale of heroism where everyone dies except Marcus Luttrell."

A more realistic GWOT book would be "How Not to Pass Out While Beating Off in a 140 Degree Porta-Shitter."

You don't need a book about how to not-pass-out.

It's really all about getting to where you're almost passing out... but not really.

I also heard a rumor years ago that Murphy shot another seal in training. Normally they would pull a trident but it was glossed over and they let him continue to lead men....

I've heard that too, but not seen any real evidence.

Red Wings is an operation that deserves to be criticized, professionally, but no need to excessively shit on one of the MANY people who fucked up... if it's not true.

Jessica Lynch ( never fired a shot)
Pat Tillman ( shot by his own men)
Leanne Hester ( coward twat)

Correct on the first two, but Leanne Hester killed more Iraqis than cancer on that day. That's not why she earned the Silver Star though.

Long before the ambush, she drilled her section of trucks while everyone else went to the Green Bean. She developed the SOP to have the grenades in the bandoliers draped on the back of the seats (would not make me happy in a rollover- but later proved useful!) and she maneuvered her squad against the enemy under fire and finished them.

Many other linehaul escorts have gone pedal-down to get out of the kill zone and left their TCN truckers behind to die. This actually happens often. She hopped out of the truck, maneuvered her squad, and gave them a problem.

Not sure why anyone would call her a "coward twat." In the context of this thread, she's basically the anti-Luttrell.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Ummm there are no majors in the Navy…..if you haven’t been in combat or the military you should just be quiet

Ummm the USMC is Dept of the Navy, so there must be Majors in the Navy……if you haven’t been volentold by the USN to go serve in the USMC because they are Dept of the Navy you should just be quiet.

I’m kinda surprised a CWO responded, shocked they even showed up. Must have forgotten his golf clubs

Relax, it’s the bear pit, even I don’t care.

I should write a book “Tears from the BAS”
-chapter one, malingering before PT
-chapter two, does this look like aids?
-chapter theee, FAFO shredded medical records
-chapter four, the deployment therapist
-chapter five, advanced malingering
-chapter six, why letting them carry their own IV bags was a mistake

 

[shields shtr]

I had a coworker, now retired, same deal, never discussed anything related to his tours in Iraq, other than the shenanigans he and his unit pulled on other units inside the wire, nothing outside the gate.

My brother is career military, been in two branches of service. He is like this. He has been deployed overseas many times, in some real shit parts of the earth. I don't know if I have every heard him talk about a single mission or really anything he did when he was over there. Only very vague descriptions, and nothing of substance. We are close, and I have kind of tried to steer conversations in that direction before, but he just doesn't really talk about it.

 

[kthomas]

I hate to say it, but whenever there is a war the propaganda machine is in full swing. Sometimes they find willing narcissists to go along, and in other cases...the hero character is completely made up.

An example that always stuck out in my mind is a story of a guy shooting a dude off a bicycle at 2,500 yards, and then shooting the dude again...the shots being made with an M2 and 8x optic. Having probably put somewhere between 15 - 25K rounds through an M2 with a 7x day optic myself ...there ain't no fucking way man. That is a 3 MOA (at best) weapon system, and the cone of fire will expand significantly as distance increases. I've hit tank hulls with decent frequency past the maximum effective range of that platform while farting around on a range...but it damn sure wasn't cold bore and was definitely part of a burst of fire.

^^ I remember reading that story in a book when I was a kid, thinking "wow, what a badass." And then by about my 10th year and 10,000th round thinking "So that was a f---ing lie."

There are still quite a few heroes out there, and I'll not cast very damn many stones - being that I haven't personally deployed with some of the dudes in question. However, there are things that come to mind that are just too outlandish for the possibility of truth.

Dudes with nicknames have a significantly increased rate of possessing stories that stray further from the truth IME.

I'll wait for some fanboys to start flaming me now.

"The first casualty of war is truth..."

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Water-Major... perhaps promotable to Colonel-of-the-Sea, Junior Grade?

I don't really care.

In fact- if you want to offer them some mitigation, Lutrell was a member of "SDV-1" i.e Swimmer Delivery Vehicle 1. He was supposed to be off doing underwater things, and literally had no business in Afghanistan, especially not doing that mission.

If I led that element of Operation Redwings, the book would be called "LOL- we got compromised, so we went back to the COP and played X-box" not, "LONE SURVIVOR: A tale of heroism where everyone dies except Marcus Luttrell."



You don't need a book about how to not-pass-out.

It's really all about getting to where you're almost passing out... but not really.



I've heard that too, but not seen any real evidence.

Red Wings is an operation that deserves to be criticized, professionally, but no need to excessively shit on one of the MANY people who fucked up... if it's not true.



Correct on the first two, but Leanne Hester killed more Iraqis than cancer on that day. That's not why she earned the Silver Star though.

Long before the ambush, she drilled her section of trucks while everyone else went to the Green Bean. She developed the SOP to have the grenades in the bandoliers draped on the back of the seats (would not make me happy in a rollover- but later proved useful!) and she maneuvered her squad against the enemy under fire and finished them.

Many other linehaul escorts have gone pedal-down to get out of the kill zone and left their TCN truckers behind to die. This actually happens often. She hopped out of the truck, maneuvered her squad, and gave them a problem.

Not sure why anyone would call her a "coward twat." In the context of this thread, she's basically the anti-Luttrell.

I'm going to call bullshit. My unit replaced the 1075th from Nebraska. They were the unit that was ambushed. I spent almost 2 months with the squad that was in the ambush. A bunch of purple hearts and some personal stuff I would never share but I can tell you what really happened. I have first hand accounts from multiple people who were not only in the battle but were shot.

They all said Hester was hiding in her gun truck.

Here is how it happened. The transportation units were on the road for a week or two at a time. They didn't not fill out AAR or reports until they got back to base. The MP unit , that was their AO. After the battle they raced back and filled out the reports a week before the 1075th got back to base. By the time the 1075th got back the Army was already in full propaganda mode and the story spread. They had their "female warrior hero" to share which was a publicity win when recruiting was in the shitter, the war was unpopular and they were letting anyone with a pulse join.

The 1075th raised some shit about it and the army eventually sent some guys from army historical command to interview everyone. To a T witness all said they didn't see Hester fire a shot and a few said they saw her cowering inside their ARMORED Humvees......something none of the 1075th had...driving unarmored 715s and Humvees. The army archives has the real story.

It's a bullshit story. hell I've seen women get awarded bronze stars for v for doing nothing but be in wrong place at wrong time. The standard for a man and a women to get an award is light years apart. The power of the pussy.

 

[kthomas]

Most of the "heroic" SEAL missions were the result of piss poor planning or piss poor execution/bad decisions by the operators.

I've never served - but recently I got interested in "warrior culture" and listened to numerous podcasts, many of/in regards to our "Tier 1" units, and the SEALS sound like they were an absolute shit show - especially in the first couple of years in the sandbox.

Very interesting to see the contrast between groups like the SEALS and say CAG.

No doubt some pretty heroic and badass things have occured by people in these groups, but our society has definitely built them up into these giant legends, to the point we forget they are humans. And every bit as flawed and fucked up as the rest of us.

And a lot of that is due to our unhealthy perspective of war, in our permanent warfare state we are currently in.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

When war pops of everyone has to learn the hard lessons , usually in blood. The military has a way of forgetting how shit works from the last war.

I think the reason units like CAG were so successful is they were always in some shit, fighting somewhere and had the continuity. Somalia was a big kick in the teeth.

The seals always believed their own bullshit. They hadn't done real land warfare since vietnam. They did not have a strong land warfare background so things like mission planning and basic military operations were considered beneath them. To a special forces soldier mission planning is so vital it's part of their workup/isolation. In the SEALs it was bitch work done by some navy attachment soft skiller. It's why they took so many hard losses early in the wars. Mission planning and basic infantry/maneuver skills are drilled into every combat unit in the army and their leaders. SEALs pull from the street or navy where there is no backbone of ground combat. A SF or ranger or force recon dude becomes an infantryman before they become something specialized. You generally have to be very good at your job to even get a chance to go to selection.
They always have those basic skills to fall back on...and most war is utilization of those basic skills. A SEAL only knows what they were taught and a few weeks doing land warfare is not enough to install all the muscle memory and instinct to fall back on. Red wings is a great example of complete command and leadership incompetence. The actual experts in reconnaissance ( the marine scout snipers who originally had the mission) would never make those basic mistakes.

And the sad truth is by the next war most of the lessons paid for in blood will be forgotten. Only to be learned again by young patriots.